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Recording Console Games in 1080p advice / suggestions for hardware
- Thread starter Parakeetman
- Start date
Looks exactly like it, but it has a different serial number. So I can't guarantee that they didn't fix the HDCP bug.
brooklyniteOne
Member
Ok, but that seems to be DVI in to HDMI out and not HDMI in to HDMI out anyway.
HDMI and DVI with HDCP is the same thing in terms of video signal, just different physical connector. My setup is PS3 -> hdmi to dvi cable -> box -> dvi to dvi cable -> black magic intensity pro.
ColdBlooder
Banned
I thought about getting that card but i don´t want to edit uncompressed 1080p footage. Those files are huge. So i wemt with the Live Gamer HD from Avermedia. It does a really good job so far.
Then you should go with one of the USB external capture cards. If you just want to stream and the quality doesn't need to be super hi-def, then that is enough. You also need to think about the speed of your upload. There should be a Twitch.tv update for the Elgato capture card, so you can directly stream to Twitch.tv without the need of Xsplit Broadcaster.
I plan on buying the Elgato Game Capture HD because of its pass-through ability and its reasonable price at around £130. The other option I considered was the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle but it's a little overkill for what I want to do. There really isn't a need to record higher than 720p if the game you're playing doesn't support it, though it's good to have the ability at hand which the Elgato covers.
Actually it seems to be up to the game.
For example, I can confirm Rockband 3 does NOT use HDCP.
Elginer
Member
If you just want to stream the Elgato/USB device is the way to go. Or the Roxio. Have yet to try the Twitch in the Elgato software. Anyone know when that update will be out?
PS3 needs component if you don't have a HDCP stripper.
brooklyniteOne
Member
Yeah but hdmi also passes an audio signal so theres less wires to deal with.
And the Elgato has input for component right? I saw that they ship the cables in the box, but didn't see an input for the component cables on the Elgato device.
Also where would I be able to get an HDCP stripper and I am assuming they are expensive?
Dreamwriter
Member
Better, the Elgato comes with a special cable which plugs into the PS3 A/V port and takes the component and audio signals straight from that. It also has a port for a component breakout cable (that comes with the device) on it, so you can use real component cables if you want.
I have an Elgato device on order, it should be arriving Monday so I can start playing with mine then. I ordered it after reading this review (among others)
So that's what that wire was. It looked like HDMI because it only had one head, but then on the box it said component and the device didn't have component in and I got confused.
So does this mean that if I use the Elgato and their component cable and plug it into their device, then on the output I can output to HDMI and record from that without worrying about HDCP?
Dreamwriter
Member
Yeah, 'cause HDCP is only for HDMI or DVI, so if your source is component, you're fine. Note that you may not be able to use that to record actual HD movies, because for Blu-Rays and stuff the Blu-Ray consortium requires that playback companies downres their movies to 480p when not using HDMI.
You have to set it to 1080i/720p instead though, right? 1080p is a no go.
Yea I know HDCP is for HDMI. I was asking because I wanted to know if there was another solution to recording gameplay (not movies) from the PS3 using HDMI.
PS3 can be somewhat of a headache to record with HDMI :\
I don't mind 720p. I just want to be able to record through HDMI and have HD source and no security to worry about
Anyways this Elgato sounds really interesting. Might have to try it out!
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Grabbed this item from Monoprice. They shipped it out damned fast and fair price.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10114&cs_id=1011405&p_id=5369&seq=1&format=2
It removes the HDCP from the HDMI signal when run through it. So you need to run it from the ps3 into that, then into your capture device basically. I didnt hook my own yet since picked up one for myself too, but my buddy got it working no problem and did test vids of various PS3 games.
Actually we already got a working solution and a buddy has done the test vids in 1080p for games that allowed it on the PS3.
No, modern implementations of DVI can also do audio and all DVI cables (bar the rare DVI-A) can transfer all the data that HDMI can (other than the ARC or Ethernet, I can not remember which).
Not sure what devices support receiving over it DVI though (but a DVI to HDMI converter will fix that if you have a HDMI input).
I saw a video of that being used. Should I buy one then? It looks like the cheapest solution to HDCP.
ii Stryker
Banned
Is there a console video capture solution for Mac users or is everything PC only?
Elgato works on Mac/PC. Not sure about others.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
I can tell you right now it does work. There was another solution made by a different company, but its been discontinued. Which is why we had to roll the dice on the monoprice hardware. But at least it works.
Though have not figured out a way to get surround sound working on capture. But if you are not concerned about that and just want to capture 1080p then yeah thats all there is out currently. Well what I found anyways after doing more research around the net, during the time had originally made this post.
Though once again this config was done using the monoprice splitter and the AverMedia Live Gamer HD card. We have not tested it out with any other setups currently.
I still need to work out some other issues with the PC before I get my own splitter all set up here at home.
There's a video of the Elgato working with it too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZaB8LS1Tqw
I'll have to get it then. I think in that video the guy has surround sound working.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Awesome stuff. Ill pass this vid onto my buddy for further reference. Helps to keep a collection of these things.
Good luck with it!
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
If the live gamer HD dosen´t work try this
The Hauppauge HD PVR 2
This allows recording through HDMI up to 1080p30 just like the Live Gamer HD
Remember that 1080p is only possible through HDMI since component can only do up to 1080i
EDIT: You may run into problens on PS3. IM NOT SURE but i think even game footage is encrypted with HDCP, so this might be the reason why recording won´t work on some devices!
Wouldn't recommend it. Very finicky at times, and it degrades the signal quality. It'll let you record stuff just fine, but if it makes your experience less enjoyable... well, for me, that's not worth it
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I use a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle and I'm pretty happy with it. Apparently its compatibility isn't that great (supposedly it doesn't work on all USB 3.0 hardware, unless the drivers have been updated for such recently), but if it does work for your PC I think it's worth looking into. Since I use a laptop it's pretty much my only option for high quality, uncompressed footage.
Here's a sample of my stream setup. (Warning: loud audio.) It's on Youtube so of course there's compression and down-coversion to 30fps though. There's no commentary in this video but I have the gear necessary for that as well.
That's only true for USB 2.0.
FWIW, every USB 2.0 device I've had exposure to has some kind of quirk that makes it irritating to use, usually conflicts with recording/streaming software and audio delays/sync issues. This is what pushes me away from them more than anything else. PCI-e and USB 3.0 devices are usually DirectShow compatible and don't cause as many issues.
Littlegator
Banned
Is there a 1080p 60fps HDCP consumer grade device that doesn't degrade signal?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
That Monster card linked above is the only one I've seen, and it's rather pricey.
I haven't looked into it for a few months, but unless things have changed lately you're not going to come across something like that without spending a small fortune to do it.
Littlegator
Banned
Yeah, I was looking at that, but I couldn't find the price.
Looks like it's about $575 + shipping + HDCP stripper. Ouch.
Littlegator
Banned
Because recording it is different than receiving it.
Exentryk
Member
I have the older version of the Hauppauge HD PVR.
It records upto 1080i, but the newer version allows 1080p30, atleast for the Xbox. (Ps3 is still 1080i only even in the new version)
I have used it to record various videos, and now I exclusively record at 720p. 1080i is somewhat blurry when you compare it to 720p. You can compare them yourself using these two random videos that I uploaded some time back:
PS3 - Final Fantasy XIII-2
1080i
720p
It records upto 1080i, but the newer version allows 1080p30, atleast for the Xbox. (Ps3 is still 1080i only even in the new version)
I have used it to record various videos, and now I exclusively record at 720p. 1080i is somewhat blurry when you compare it to 720p. You can compare them yourself using these two random videos that I uploaded some time back:
PS3 - Final Fantasy XIII-2
1080i
720p
ChosenPredator
Banned
man if i wasn't so dumb and could figure out how to get xsplit to work with my MIC and in game audio so i can adjust both levels id use it instead of my happauge..i can get it to work but no one will be able to hear me talk or in game sound
No.
Once you have captured the data from the TMDS streams you will just end up with a bunch of RGB bitmaps that you could do anything you want to.
The same as a monitor would do.
No difference between sending the frames to a display controller or sending them over PCIE to a hard drive.
PantherAttacks
Member
One thing to consider is the delay introduced by pass through devices. The information is hard to find, but for example the Hauppage HD PVR 2 has a 60 ms delay going from component in to HDMI out (Source). Also some of these devices require you to have the PC/device on and even start the capture software. Some people use a HDMI/Amplified Component splitter to avoid pass through at all.
Littlegator
Banned
Except the LCD controller puts some voltage drops across some pixels to make an image appear.
Recording involves re-encoding first, which is slow. It pretty much requires ASIC logic, which is expensive. Probably too expensive for a current hardware manufacturer to swallow.
We'll see it happen when the market expands more, which it definitely is doing.
Exentryk
Member
I have not noticed any delays while using the Hauppauge. No difference in terms of controller button press and response on screen. The video that comes through on the laptop is a second slower though, but no issues there since that is only for recording.
You do not need to re-encode the video to record it, you just need a fast enough disk system.
Compressing the video does not need an ASIC!, modern CPUs with modern encoders are known to do a much better job.
Thanks to your post, I bought this as well.
jetsetfluken
Member
To my understanding, there is no way to get 1:1 quality from standalone USB devices, right? As in, the exact thing you see on your display (in resolution and FPS and MBPS, etc.) in the video file.
Two of the better consumer standalone USB devices seem to be the Elgato Game Capture HD, Hauppauge HD PVR 2 and Blackmagic Intensity line.
The Elgato is superior to Hauppauge in terms of bitrate in (1080p) video quality output: Elgato is 30 MBPS while Hauppauge is 14 MBPS.
I haven't done much research into the Blackmagic Intensity line.
You need a desktop PC with capture card to get 1:1 quality, right? I'm not only talking about PC recording, but console recording too. 360, Wii, PS3, Wii U and even older consoles.
PS3 is a special case as there is some kind of copy protection, so no 1080p/HDMI. So I take it you can't get 1:1 quality unless you have a capture card? Standalone USB devices cannot work with HDMI for PS3, only component. This is due to the copy protection.
And is there any solutions out there yet to record Vita and/or 3DS? Only off-screen camera?
Two of the better consumer standalone USB devices seem to be the Elgato Game Capture HD, Hauppauge HD PVR 2 and Blackmagic Intensity line.
The Elgato is superior to Hauppauge in terms of bitrate in (1080p) video quality output: Elgato is 30 MBPS while Hauppauge is 14 MBPS.
I haven't done much research into the Blackmagic Intensity line.
You need a desktop PC with capture card to get 1:1 quality, right? I'm not only talking about PC recording, but console recording too. 360, Wii, PS3, Wii U and even older consoles.
PS3 is a special case as there is some kind of copy protection, so no 1080p/HDMI. So I take it you can't get 1:1 quality unless you have a capture card? Standalone USB devices cannot work with HDMI for PS3, only component. This is due to the copy protection.
And is there any solutions out there yet to record Vita and/or 3DS? Only off-screen camera?
You can record using HDMI on PS3. Read the thread, I posted a solution already.
You can directly capture from 3DS. Something like www.3dscapture.com
You can directly capture from 3DS. Something like www.3dscapture.com
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
I was thinking getting an HD capture device to record some of my multiplayer matches would be a great after X-mas gift but after reading this thread I became a little hesitant. There doesn't seem to be a an agreed upon go to device or even that much of a I'd recommend that one two. This is kinda foreign territory for me. I'd mainly record for my PS3 and 720 is fine. I have this really old crappy recorder but it's a pain in the ass to setup and only records in SD. Half the time the thing doesn't record right. After making a couple of video's I really got into it though. I would love to jump into something better but I don't know where to begin.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
USB3 is good enough to get you uncompressed 1:1 video. The Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle, which is my current capture device, does precisely that, although it tops out at 720p/1080i for 60fps. It can do 1080p at 30fps though. USB2 devices won't cut it.
If you intend to do uncompressed recording/streaming, make sure to look for a capture device that DOES NOT list hardware-based H.264 encoding as a feature. These devices compress the signal before they send it to your PC.
Also keep in mind that in order to record uncompressed 720p video at 60fps to your PC, you'll also need a pretty good hard drive to keep up with the required write speeds. A dedicated external RAID-0 array of at least 2 high-density disks is recommended. As an alternative, it may also be possible to use a video editing program of your choice to grab the capture input and losslessly compress it on the fly, but I've never tried it and don't know what kind of codecs would be ideal, what kind of CPU requirement that would entail, or if it would cause any kind of audio lag/desync issues.
I haven't looked into the details, but some people have had success in getting around the PS3's HDCP encryption by using some kind of HDMI->DVI->HDMI setup. From what I understand, converting between those formats is 1:1 (unlike HDMI->component or vice-versa, which is digital->analog), and DVI has no copy protection. This requires some extra gear for audio though because DVI also does not carry audio.