Fourth Storm
Member
That's not entirely fair. We said wow at Galaxy....and Cruis'n.
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Wii U Speculation thread IV: Photoshop rumors and image memes
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That's not entirely fair. We said wow at Galaxy....and Cruis'n.
Glorified G
Member
That's what I was thinking too. Three times the memory of current gen consoles is best case scenario.
Great, so we're down to 1 GB.
Fourth Storm
Member
And don't forget that >512 MB reserved for OS functions. Less RAM than 360 confirmed.
DragonKnight
Member
He's heavily hinting that the amount has changed. I'm saying 2.0GB at least and if nintendo has been buddying up with third parties, perhaps even more.
I'm not going to argue further about someone's opinion on what Zelda should be like, but I think that the linearity that some see in the series would be far less obvious and more forgivable if PV got a bump. If that's not what he meant, cool. I personally think Zelda would be just fine continuing in it's basic world structure.
That's why I'm not crazy about the prospect of a Retro-developed Zelda, as much as I would want to trust them.
DragonKnight
Member
What else have you been spot on about BG? Can this things run UE4? And have you heard any rumblings as to how capable the online is?
That would require a split pool of ram. I don't see nintendo giving this thing 2GB of ram, let alone more than that. I'm still expecting only 1GB to be accessible by devs.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
Yep, the worst 3D Zelda( haven't played MM, so that might be worse but I doubt it).
Personally I think if you want to solve the main issue with Zelda games post LttP(pacing) the obvious solution is to make the games more linear(in a similar way to Portal or PoP:SoT), it plays to the main strength the current team has(Dungeon/Puzzle design) without "wasting" the players time.
TheNatural
My Member!
Uh, no.
That's exactly how I feel about the situation. It seems like everyone flips their shit whenever someone suggests "Zelda can learn something from Dark Souls". As if Zelda is the fucking pinnacle of gaming and can't be improved on.
The dungeons are good, indeed, however in comparison to most of the SS dungeons the level design left a lot to be desired. furthermore, I don't even believe that SS had the best dungeons in the series. Take what you will from that.
DragonKnight
Member
That's not what developers have been asking for especially not the ones that have been courting nintendo (Epic) and the ones that nintendo have been courting (Crytex). 1GB would not be enough.
Edit: This thing needs to be able to take on four consoles. The PS3/360 race is over and already won. Ninty needs to be looking at the 720 and ps4. And if they are really trying to get back the core, the system needs to capable of receiving games that the core like to play. Why would I play a stripped down version of something? WiiU games needs to be on par similarly to the PS2 version of RE4.
GameplayWhore
Member
Does anybody have a link to the technical discussion a thread or two back about why exactly greater than 2GB unified memory is not possible (without massive sacrifices) given current technological limitations? I recall it was something like "On a board, you can run up to eight chips, and the upper limit for the chips is currently 256MB", but I'd like clarification here from the techies.
Ten UBI-bytes? Wow, that's almost as good as a Nintendo Gigabyte!
Ultra bytes
I'm more thinking that it was always 1.5GB and still is, but since it was in the target specs it probably doesn't include the OS reserved RAM, so 2GB total.
I'm thinking that PS4 will have 2GB for games while XB3 has 4GB. Scaling between the three would not be all that hard in this case.
I'm thinking that PS4 will have 2GB for games while XB3 has 4GB. Scaling between the three would not be all that hard in this case.
Oh, I know 3rd parties want much more. I'm just saying I'm not expecting any more than 1GB. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it's 1.5 or 2.0 but I just don't think it's likely. Not likely, but not impossible either.
Cheesecakebobby
Banned
Ultra bytes... Ultra 64... 64 times the memory of Nintendo 64... Wii U will only have 256MB of RAM (512 with an expansion pack)
Edit: forgot to multiply by 10! 2,560MB RAM baby!
DragonKnight
Member
Nintendo has always been about RAM. Always. Well they always have an Achilles heel with each generation so maybe that's what it is this time.
Linearity isn't necessarily a negative quality, and he said with the current team. I'd rather have a high polish, "linear" Zelda than another attempt like TP (and SS to some extent.)
Trim the fat, in other words.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
I still don't understand how they let the game be released with such a terrible main "gimmick"(the terrible way in which you change wind, & sailing in general), it is the main reason it is the only Zelda game I have started & not finished (& given what I have heard about the end of the game I doubt I will ever be bored enough to do so).
I don't think anybody thinks that Zelda can't be improved(in fact pretty much every Zelda fan can give you a list of things that need improving), just that Dark Souls is not a particularly good fit for Zelda(unless you are harking back to Zelda 1).
I play Zelda games for the dungeons & the crazy characters, making the game more linear would not interfere with that(it would also solve a lot of the problems with the pacing), please explain how the pacing would be improved by being like DS?
With regards to the Zelda discussion, I think the biggest thing plaguing the series is presentation and hand-holding. Particularly with the latter, you have people talking about how there's no sense of discovery and so on, but making the game open world or designing it like Darks Souls would be for naught if you have a partner who tells you what to do and where to go constantly.
I mean you look at the dungeons in Skyward Sword and it is some of the best level design you will ever find in gaming, yet its crippled by certain elements that keep the series feeling a bit archaic. The Zelda team clearly has the skill to do amazing things but I think they are being held back for whatever reason.
I mean you look at the dungeons in Skyward Sword and it is some of the best level design you will ever find in gaming, yet its crippled by certain elements that keep the series feeling a bit archaic. The Zelda team clearly has the skill to do amazing things but I think they are being held back for whatever reason.
but that was skyward sword
You literally can't enter the next area until you finish a dungeon and the giant ray of light appears for you to drop into
You don't fix the pacing by making it more linear. You do it by cutting 80% of the useless fucking dialogue, tutorials, partner characters and cutscenes the game forces onto you.
Well, I was sort of thinking "fix useless bullshit" when I typed polish, so you're right. I'm just saying, like Cerebral, that the game should set out to be the best damn linear game there is, if that's the way it has to be. And not attempt to throw in half-hearted open-world exploration if the team doesn't have the capacity to do it properly.
TheCongressman1
Member
Yes, this is the fat that needs to be trimmed, not the exploration.
There's no need to be put into categories like that. I'm a fan of the series as a whole, but I think it could certainly be improved.
I don't think there was anything wrong with SS other than it needed MORE content. There should have been at least one other major sky town, more side quests, the ability to fly at night, areas connecting each ground segment, probably at least 1 more ground area with another dungeon (cut out one of the fights with the forsaken and one of the sacred realms at the same time). More things to explore, because as a whole SS feels claustrophobic.
But I'm one of the few people who found just about everything that was actually in the game to be enjoyable (with the exception of fi and the constant alerts). I didn't even mind the tadtones!
But I definitely don't want another repeat of SS exactly in the next zelda. I think SS was a fantastic experiment in game design. I think they should take the lessons they learned in making such a radically different zelda and incorporate them into a much more traditionally designed zelda such as TP.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
Actually you can, but it's a bit tricky and even if you get to a certain area (Lake Floria in my example) ahead of what is intended it's very difficult, though possible, to progress into a temple or other important story area.
I noticed that if you enter Lake Floria before you obtain the Water Dragon's Scale, the usual scripts for the Parella named Jellyf do not trigger. You can with a lot of devotion dive without that scale but you usually get stuck and have to rest the game.
Agent Unknown
Member
Ah good to know I was over thinking that, will leave the worrying to more spec savvy folks next time.
No, they shouldn't even bother with it until the series is passed on to someone else. The fetch-quests are awful and I can't see them having a renaissance in that regard.
Weren't there several dungeons in the NES that you couldn't enter until you had, say, the raft. Or the hammer in the case of Zelda II? I'm not understanding the difference.
Fourth Storm
Member
Does anybody have a link to the technical discussion a thread or two back about why exactly greater than 2GB unified memory is not possible (without massive sacrifices) given current technological limitations? I recall it was something like "On a board, you can run up to eight chips, and the upper limit for the chips is currently 256MB", but I'd like clarification here from the techies.
I think I was involved in that one, and it motivated me to do a bit more research regarding DDR3 bandwidth, since I was embarrassingly wrong w/ my calculations. For cost reasons, DDR3 seemed like a decent bet at the time (and still does, especially w/ Elpida's bankruptcy predicted to drive up DRAM prices).
I don't believe it was established that greater than 2 GB unified was impossible. For cost reasons, it seems unlikely.
The issue was the number of DDR3 chips it would take to achieve a decent bandwidth. To simplify things a great deal, each RAM chip has an interface of 4-bit, 8-bit, 16-bit, etc. Up until recently (or perhaps it is still the case), the only DDR3 available topped out at 2Gb (256 MB) and had a 16-bit interface. This would mean that a whopping 8 chips would be needed if they wanted 2GB of DDR3 RAM w/ bandwidth that was comparable to the 360.
I've done a little hunting, though, and it seems like Micron, at least, is currently sampling 32-bit DDR3 chips with a 4Gb (512 MB) density. That would allow Nintendo to use only 4 chips, but would still leave the bandwidth comparable to the 360. It's speculated that this issue could potentially be alleviated by the large L2 cache and eDRAM on the GPU, but I have yet to read anything which goes into detail explaining how.
http://www.micron.com/products/dram/ddr3-sdram/1-35v-ddr3-part-catalog
Agent Unknown
Member
MS will obviously give them whatever they want but after the "Fight of their lives" NY Times article, Sony better think twice this time if they have an ounce of common sense any more.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I think you're reading too much into his comment. He may not know how much it has now.
Fourth Storm
Member
I have a feeling that at least Microsoft is going for Hybrid Memory Cube (HMC). In which case, it will blow everything else out of the water.
BG does tend to enjoy hinting at things though, especially when he thinks people aren't paying close attention to what he's saying
DragonKnight
Member
This cannot happen.
Cheers, blu!
Does anybody have a link to the technical discussion a thread or two back about why exactly greater than 2GB unified memory is not possible (without massive sacrifices) given current technological limitations? I recall it was something like "On a board, you can run up to eight chips, and the upper limit for the chips is currently 256MB", but I'd like clarification here from the techies.
Well going above 2GB with GDDR5 would be difficult/costly/etc due to memory densities on current chips. However, GDDR3 wouldn't factor into that conundrum.
Fourth Storm said:
Microsoft and complicated motherboards.... ech.
DragonKnight
Member
As fellow WiiU thread poster, I don't see why he would tease otherwise.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
Unless they radically change the way Zelda plays that isn't a realistic goal, Nintendo want more people to play, not less (admittedly they aren't doing a great job in getting people to buy the game, but it makes a good 1st Zelda game). TP had "exploration" but that game only shone in dungeons.
SS was never intended to be "just" a open world game, you were meant to come back to each area & discover new things( & they were fairly successful imo, a couple more areas & the game would have felt packed with content rather than the feeling that too much was recycled).
Am I the only one who thinks (some of) Fi & her comments were deliberately designed to be annoying(as a theme through the whole game is the lack of respect shown towards Link)? The one about "there may be something important behind this door with a giant lock on it" had t have been taking the piss. As for the Tadtones, collecting them was fine, the conversation justifying why you had to do that was foolish.
It's interesting that you think that SS was a radical departure, it seemed to me that they were perhaps not radical enough.
Smiles and Cries
Member
big reveal of PS4/NextBox during WiiU's launch week believe :3
GDDR3 topped out at 1Gbit density. Graphics card makers moved onto DDR3/GDDR4/5, so there wasn't any need for >1Gbit development.
DDR3 is a different story.
While I realize your joking, it seems like people often get caught up in counting the supposed amount reserved for OS functions. The OS will be iterated on and optimized before and after the console releases, I don't think there is much point to taking it into consideration when we talk about the RAM amount.
Not saying that it was intended to be, just referring to all future games by Aunoma's team.
Ugh, nothing like a Zelda dispute to drain your argumentation craving.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I guess I just didn't take it as a "tease." All he was saying is that it could have changed since June/July. Perhaps that is the last time he had heard anything?
What I mean is that I believe Nintendo is using GDDR3 in the Wii U. I could be wrong, but I don't think we'll see DDR3 or GDDR5 unless there is some split thing going on. I obviously do not share the optimism that they'll go 2GB or up, but I've been wrong before.
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