With anvil, you just draw and discard a card. Leo is stupid.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
- Status
With anvil, you just draw and discard a card. Leo is stupid.
That they ban cards/decks with absolute no forewarning? That an expensive and powerful deck can be an integral part of the format for literally years and they can ban it out of the blue just because? That they can shamelessly reprint an expensive card in an expensive reprint set and then proceed to ban the card shortly after? That I could have bought into the deck literally a day before the banning and I'd be shit out of luck?
I guess Magic players are used to eating Wizards' shit so no one really cares. I'm just glad I got tired of the game.
There's plenty of forewarning. Me and Shaheen had literally been arguing for a Top ban for years. Legacy rounds going 30+ minutes over time repeatedly had been raised as a concern by many, many people! I had advocated for a Twin ban for years. People had said Pod was in danger of being banned for a very long time, and once they printed Rhino and it merged w/ Abzan, the writing was on the wall because the strategy merging w/ Jund was very unhealthy.
It's only out of the blue if you're not paying attention to people who know what they're talking about. If you don't do that, then yes, everything is a blindside.
And the cards in the pod/Twin decks? STILL WORTH A TON. Miracles may suffer a lot more because of just how niche those cards were outside of the deck.
Joe Molotov
Member
So did anyone else watch SaffronOlive's video today, and then go to Wal-Mart in search of mystery magic goodies? They had about 10 of those mystery boxes at my local Wal-Mart, I took them back to produce and weighed them, and most of them were exactly 1lbs and the others were ~14 oz. I bought one of the pounders and got a Teferi deck. Not mind blowing, but it's worth $20.
Infinite Stars
Member
It's not even just that.
From MTGTop8, Miracles was the only deck that put up more then 10% on a consistent basis. Iirc, there was a period last year where Miracles was 20%+.
Considering most other decks floated around 6-8% at the best, there's no reason for Miracles to be double every other individual deck.
There's been a ton of videos on youtube about the magic cubes at Wal-Mart for a while. It sucks that Saffron Olive posted one now because that means that it's going to become a lot more known and harder to find cubes :/
id prefer that to legacy combo decks taking that 10-20 tbh.
Plenty of forewarning? From Wizards? Or from the same players that were calling for a Cat ban this B&R and the last one as well?
I know from your posting here that you've been right on plenty of things so all credit to you for that. But your opinions don't matter as much as you think it does. Just because people like you think something should be banned doesn't mean that Wizards is going to do just that. Fact of the matter is, as you said, you have been calling for Top to be banned for years and you have been wrong all those years. And Wizards only decides to ban Top now when nothing has really changed.
The Twin banning and now the Top banning comes along shortly after reprints were made in expensive sets. The only people who have any clue at all about the timing of specific bans are Wizards insiders so the rest of the playerbase gets fleeced.
You can argue that the rest of the decks are still worth money but Twin was a $25 card for the longest time and Top was even more than that. People lose $50 - $100 in value on the banned cards alone overnight. That isn't a small amount of money. And it is those values that help prop up the EV of the reprint sets.
If you don't see a problem with the current structure and how Wizards handles its B&R system then you clearly have your head too far up their ass.
Kirblar wasn't wrong for years, Wizards was just hoping that the format/players would naturally correct the course, they just didn't decide to pull the trigger until now.
Same thing with when they banned BBE which was just the bullet and not the weapon that was Deathrite Shaman.
Twin was oppressive for years for numerous reasons and once again Wizards though that the format would correct itself with certain tools and it didn't, so it finally got the long overdue axe after winning multiple high profile tournaments throughout the years.
There might be someone posting here that has their head up their ass but it's certainly not kirblar. Might want to take a look in the mirror.
Edit:
Also, all this faux outrage over a top banning. If you were playing legacy, the barrier to entry weren't tops. What a joke.
I mean, I guess the argument here is that wizards should telegraph bans more before pulling the trigger? I can see how their often late, lackadaisical approach to bans makes it hard to read the official line, but if you had asked anyone in the scene what single card in legacy is most likely to eat a ban over the past year, I'm confident the vast majority would have answered top.
Really? So why ban Top now? Why not next year? Why not last year? If part of the reason for banning Top was due to matches going overtime then why not ban Top years ago when it was a good enough reason to ban it outright in Modern?
If the card was on the ban radar then why reprint Top in EMA last year? Why reprint Twin and then ban the card so shortly after the reprint?
And who's talking about barriers to entry here? The point here is Wizards and the amount of respect they show their playerbase which is virtually none at all from all that they've done in the last few years alone.
Wizards is part of a listed company so they have aggressive financial targets to meet every year and every quarter which explains the vast majority of their actions. However, these things can probably be handled better with more respect being shown to customers. However, as I can see in the MTG communities around me, people have got used to what Wizards does and financial losses and large outflows of cash to build new decks are par for the course in this hobby so there is no incentive for Wizard to change the way they do things.
Any time I see a 4+ player game of EDH at my store it's always 1 guy with the $1000 competitive deck with a huge board and making 20 game actions every turn while the other players just look bored.
SigmasonicX
Member
How would announcing a ban before the ban actually help? Wouldn't it have the same effect on prices and demand as when it's actually banned?
I'm curious how you think Wizards should have handled things. Assuming that they realize now (let's say in the last 3 months) that Top needs to be banned, what course of action do you think they should have taken (keeping in mind that set design happens one to two years out from set release)?
I've been building D&T lately but I might actually pivot and go back to Maverick with Miracles gone. Dread of Night wouldn't be this backbreaking, nearly impossible to remove problem. A few matchups get worse but having access to cards like GSZ and Sylvan Library is huge. Recruiter of the Guard is fine but really slow if you don't have a Vial out. Plus Thoughtseize, Zealous Persecution, Engineered Plague, etc are incredible sideboard options.
You could treat this like a hobby and not get so upset about the financial losses. If you treat every card as a sunk cost you will probably be happier with the hobby.
If the money is such a big deal, well, most of the deck's value is still there. Tundra and Volcanic Island are still $150+, Jace TMS is still $70, Snapcaster ain't going down cause of the banning. You lost maybe $120 in Top (if you overpaid) and like $50 in the rest of the deck. Yeah, that is the value of a couple Tarmogoyfs, but you could have lost that just as easy if it fell out of the Meta.
If you're upset you can't play it, well, you still can, just only at the kitchen table. With a little tweaking you could also try to turn it into another deck and play that. You have enough value in the deck to trade the whole thing away for Death and Taxes. Sell a land and get Vials and some Merfolk and play that. You could still get Reanimator or Dredge.
Out of a $2000+ deck you lost less than 10% of the value. If you let the prices worry you, don't treat it like stocks. This is a hobby, any return is nice, but shouldn't be the biggest part of your enjoyment.
If the money is such a big deal, well, most of the deck's value is still there. Tundra and Volcanic Island are still $150+, Jace TMS is still $70, Snapcaster ain't going down cause of the banning. You lost maybe $120 in Top (if you overpaid) and like $50 in the rest of the deck. Yeah, that is the value of a couple Tarmogoyfs, but you could have lost that just as easy if it fell out of the Meta.
If you're upset you can't play it, well, you still can, just only at the kitchen table. With a little tweaking you could also try to turn it into another deck and play that. You have enough value in the deck to trade the whole thing away for Death and Taxes. Sell a land and get Vials and some Merfolk and play that. You could still get Reanimator or Dredge.
Out of a $2000+ deck you lost less than 10% of the value. If you let the prices worry you, don't treat it like stocks. This is a hobby, any return is nice, but shouldn't be the biggest part of your enjoyment.
Ooh sudden demise is pretty cool. I've never seen that before. Cunning Sparkmage I've seen for the mirror, but I suppose its decent against elves as well.
Oh shit, haha. My condolences.
Oh shit, haha. My condolences.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
In other news, Protean Hulk has completed sales at $20+ USD
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Dissension/Protean+Hulk#paper
If you are an insider on the EDH rules group, that's gotta be worth something, right?
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Dissension/Protean+Hulk#paper
If you are an insider on the EDH rules group, that's gotta be worth something, right?
StrategyFan
Member
can't the game shops just ban whatever the locals want banned?
or does wotc have everyone on a short leash?
or does wotc have everyone on a short leash?
SigmasonicX
Member
I mean, how would you feel if you decided to join a Standard event at a shop you don't usually go to, only for it to turn out that they have a different ban list than your usual shop and your deck no longer works?
shrapnelmagnet
Member
Can you imagine someone playing a competitive Miracles deck at the kitchen table, lol?
Like, how much would that person hate their friends?
I am so psyched Miracles is dead. Few things are more miserable than watching a player lose slowly to a Miracles deck. Top ban is my favourite ban since I've started playing (2013).
Getting combo t2 by legacy combo decks is pretty high up there.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
At least it's over quick?
Events won't be sanctioned, which very few players actually care about, but it's a thing.
Leovold ban was just a matter of time. The card is way too good to have it in your command zone.
ban elves
I came back after 11 years of not playing last year. You never really quit magic, you just take a break.
Oh no theyve only doubled in price since!
ThLunarian
Member
I made some cash on Eye of Ugin and Boom/Bust, and whiffed on Jace Unraveler of Secrets.
So basically I've broken even on Kirblar's financial tips
So basically I've broken even on Kirblar's financial tips
I'm glad I got out of standard. I played mono black rats during Theros block and loved it and having seen them fuck up standard, it makes me not really want to come back. I love weird combo-y interactive/synergy decks and BG zombies from ravnica and mono black rats were still some of my favorite decks to pilot.
Is there a similar zombies deck in modern?
edit: I suppose that deck is actually affinity and why I am building it. Though I always love fun graveyard interaction.
Is there a similar zombies deck in modern?
edit: I suppose that deck is actually affinity and why I am building it. Though I always love fun graveyard interaction.
Imperfected
Member
I mean, for casual play you can literally have whatever rules you want whenever you want.
The last EDH game I played included rules like, "You can run Griselbrand but no one's allowed to reanimate him", "You can mull until you hit three lands but you have to show us every hand you put back", and "Everyone's wishboard includes my copy of Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn because if you cast it off Coax from the Blind Eternities that's just neat."
For actual tournament play you need to have a consistent and widely-known set of rules that everyone can agree on, though. The only real way to do that is to have a standard.
Because they gave the format time to see if the format would figure it out? Not to mention the logistics portion where tournament rounds would go way past round time due to the nature of top activations? It's really not hard to comprehend.
Wizards has stated multiple times that they do not take into account sets/releases when deciding to ban a card or not. Go back when Stoneforge Mystic was in an Event Deck right before it got banned for further proof. Past that, I don't understand your stance on the matter here. If Wizards had NOT reprinted it in EMA, the price of top would have gone up over the past year instead of down, so when the card inevitably got banned, people like you would've been even more upset about their investment. So apparently Wizards is damned if they do, damned if they don't.
You're the one whining about lost value over four cards that went into one Legacy deck when the bulk of the value is in the manabase. If anybody can afford to play Legacy a hit on four tops isn't the end of the world. I don't see how this banning shows disrespect either, since a big portion of the equation was to respect players' time by not having everyone being miserable waiting on a couple of miracle players consistently going beyond round time.
The card is nuts. Deals with planeswalkers really well. Probably the best 5 drop on standard (sorry Avacyn/Verdurous).
Yeah it's the best dragon in a long time. Kinda glad they didn't make it a 5/5 as well. It's hard to imagine a meta where this dude is not playable in Standard.
EDIT: It should also be said that if you don't plan on playing with it, sell all your copies ASAP. It's gonna fall in price for sure. This is hyped up + it's gonna be a Gameday promo next month.
EDIT: It should also be said that if you don't plan on playing with it, sell all your copies ASAP. It's gonna fall in price for sure. This is hyped up + it's gonna be a Gameday promo next month.
Imperfected
Member
I popped one in my first prize pack from the prerelease. Lil bastard sure would have been nice to see a pack earlier in the night.
If you're getting prize support for the tournament from WoTc, you're supposed to keep things consistent. Anything goes if you're running it yourself.
The leash is also pretty long; players don't report stores very often, and WoTC doesn't seem to follow up on reports unless they're very public. I've seen some really bizarre house rules at small shops that never get fixed. One place around here will immediately DQ you if you try to intentionally draw for any reason, even in sanctioned events.... and they get PPTQs.
I love Glorybringer, much like I loved Stormbreath and Thundermaw. Any decently sized and decently costed flyer with haste is good in my book. Also super glad it's not 5/5, because at least right now it doesn't escape Grasp for what it's worth.
I've seen a number of brews for the return of RG Monsters thanks to stuff like Glorybringer and Rhonas, and if I wasn't avoiding standard for now I'd seriously think about it.
- Status