Considering the large scope with multiple attacks and that they build bombs I imagine this was more than just people radicalised by the internet
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At least thirteen dead as van hits crowds in Barcelona
- Thread starter hypotc
- Start date
Carl2291
Member
Because there's no way to prevent attacks like this slipping through.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Number of deaths raises to 14, an injured woman died related to the Cambrils attack.
R.I.P
Let's hope is the last one
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=246403786
R.I.P
Let's hope is the last one
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=246403786
chromatic9
Member
I find it far more worrying how multiple men can easily be radicalised or are strongly religious to start with and are willing to carry out such acts.
What's also apparent is some of them get turned and trained when visiting Morocco and Libya. ISIS have people over there so you could say ISIS does have a fairly big apparatus.
ClosingADoor
Member
How we are going to stop young men from being radicalized is one of the largest challenges of our time I think. We see it with Muslim extremism, we see it with the alt-right. There is something that makes this group easier to turn towards things like that, but how do we solve that...
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Of course its not possible to prevent every attack. Still sucks when the officials says something along the lines that the attacker was known to the police. I know it didnt happen this time, but it did in some of recent attacks.
Sailent
Banned
Because our king pays the weapons used in the mid west to kill people.
Some people don't understand the value of life and the value of our freedom.
I texted a someone I know (friend / acquaintance) about the attack and that it was unfolding as we speak. According to him the media blew up the story for their own gain.
He basically said: 'someone plows into a group of people. Wow (sarcastic). I don't know what all the fuzz is about. It's not a major attack like in Manchester or last years in France'.
He also feel it's unnecessary that there's live coverage of the story.
Fuck him.
I texted a someone I know (friend / acquaintance) about the attack and that it was unfolding as we speak. According to him the media blew up the story for their own gain.
He basically said: 'someone plows into a group of people. Wow (sarcastic). I don't know what all the fuzz is about. It's not a major attack like in Manchester or last years in France'.
He also feel it's unnecessary that there's live coverage of the story.
Fuck him.
Being known to the police doesn't mean they have actually committed any crime. It could just be suspicious behaviour. Unless you want to start locking people up without having broken any laws.
Indeed.
Crow Pudding
Member
It's also a bit strange to do a terrorist attack in Barcelona. El Prat Airport is known as one of the main entrances of jihadists to Europe, police knows it and they tracks them. But to them doing an attack in Barcelona is like closing your own house door, the surveillance will be much better from now on.
WTF, how someone can be this horrible.
Snkfanatic
Banned
Welp one less person to worry about in your life. What an asshole
Time to change friends.
Patrick S.
Banned
Yeah, man. Tell him he's banned!
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Ascenion
Member
Well fuck. That's some stone cold heartless shit my dude. Fuck that guy.
Patrick S.
Banned
The father of a friend is a Guardia Civil. In the corridor of his apartment, theres an old picture of the king Juan Carlos himself pinning a medal on his dads chest. He got it for killing several ETA members in a gunfight. These guys dont fuck around.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
That was a mosso, though. Different police force. GC is a gendarmerie, mossos are a regional group comparable to Germany's Landespolizei or America's state troopers.
I don't know if he was with the rapid reaction team, but he really earned his bread there.
Crow Pudding
Member
So the key of all of this was the explosion in Alcanar, it triggered the other attacks.
If all would have been along the original plans, we could be talking about another different massacre with tons of explosives...
If all would have been along the original plans, we could be talking about another different massacre with tons of explosives...
Audioboxer
Member
Damn.
Injured figure is high too
BBC say manhunt is currently underway ~ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/40966524
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Apparently the driver is one of the five terrorist killed in Cambrils.
Not official, but I heard that from someone that works on the Catalonian police.
Edit: seems is not true, there's a manhunt ongoing for this guy and 3 other more.
Edit2: Seems it was actually correct. Thye now confirmed it.
Not official, but I heard that from someone that works on the Catalonian police.
Edit: seems is not true, there's a manhunt ongoing for this guy and 3 other more.
Edit2: Seems it was actually correct. Thye now confirmed it.
AcademicSaucer
Member
There are things that can be done tho, these people that a are indoctrinated by a salafist ideology so maybe you should prevent saudi money to fund organizations, mosques, community centers, etc that could spread said ideology.
Yeah, he managing to get four of them is pretty impressive. Having that kind of accuracy on a stressful situation must not be easy.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
This is an excellent timeline for those interested.
It looks like we lucked out big time. This wasn't a lone wolf attack at all. It was an actual terror cell with plans a, b, and c.
First they tried to rent a large truck and load it with gas containers in order to cause a massive explosion at the end of their run, but couldn't provide the permits and had to settle for two smaller vans. Then they fucked up the bombs and blew up their safe house. The terrorists driving the second van were later shot down, although they fatally stabbed a bystander and injured a number of people.
This could have been much, much worse.
It looks like we lucked out big time. This wasn't a lone wolf attack at all. It was an actual terror cell with plans a, b, and c.
First they tried to rent a large truck and load it with gas containers in order to cause a massive explosion at the end of their run, but couldn't provide the permits and had to settle for two smaller vans. Then they fucked up the bombs and blew up their safe house. The terrorists driving the second van were later shot down, although they fatally stabbed a bystander and injured a number of people.
This could have been much, much worse.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Yeah, it was a full cell, that was preparing the attack for months. TBH this is a big blunder for the security forces. I understand a small group, acting alone and with no preparation for fast quick damage, but a whole cell operating for months without being caught? Something went wrong here.
God knows how much damage they could have done if luck didn't intervened.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Mossos and some politicians are going to catch a lot of shit for refusing the National Police's instructions to protect main streets with bollards because there were "no credible risks".
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Probably blame is on both sides (Catalonian goverment and central goverment), Mossos has been asking for years to be in the national antiterrorism organisms (CITCO) and also in the EUROPOL systems. The central goverment, didn't let them in.
Also the central goverment just cockblocked a few months ago, the ampliation in 500 ppl into the Mossos, which they claimed for some time, they needed way more effectives to deal with antiterrorism.
Our president has been using our own security to punish the catalonian goverment in their independence aspirations.
Spaced Harrier
Member
13 dead, in a major European city, with a large contingent of GAF from the country or nearby..
Just 17 pages, and dropped to page 3, even as new information comes in and we are only a bit over 24 hours away from the incident.
That's how normalised this has become.
This isn't a swipe at anybody, but a couple of years ago this would be a 100 page thread constantly at the top of page one. And that's horrific in and of itself.
Just 17 pages, and dropped to page 3, even as new information comes in and we are only a bit over 24 hours away from the incident.
That's how normalised this has become.
This isn't a swipe at anybody, but a couple of years ago this would be a 100 page thread constantly at the top of page one. And that's horrific in and of itself.
ClosingADoor
Member
Damn. I'm glad these terrorist are not always the smartest bunch and screwing up their attacks. 13 people killed and a lot injured is still too many of course, but it could have been dozens more.
Yeah, we also see this with the stabbing attacks. Today one in Finland again, and it's not even made that big a thing in the news it seems. The reaction now is "oh, this happened again". On the one hand, it is good we don't panic every time. But it is also sad that it is becoming just another thing you read in the papers and move on from.
Sounds morbid but good to hear this attack wasn't as bad as it could have been.
Seems like they could have killed hundreds if not thousands.
As attacks become more frequent, people will just be repeating themselves with no different discourse. So people just offer their condolences and move on.
But at least there's a spotlight on this.
Over 400 people have been killed in Sierra Leone (100 children plus over 600 more still missing, but presumed dead) on Monday and as far as I can tell this is all it got.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1419666
Audioboxer
Member
Apathy sets in for many when you witness similar attacks within "short" spaces of time. The current crop of attacks are seemingly happening every few months now somewhere in Europe.
Desensitisation can sometimes be a coping mechanism too. The 1st time you witness a new style of terror attack you're all worked up, upset, angry and bothered. Like the white supremissist terror attack in America. Once you hit multiples over a short-ish period of time it's somewhat natural some minds end up reaching apathy and backing away. It's arguably not healthy or helpful for people to switch off but it happens for behavioural reasons that aren't unexpected.
A lot of people just can't handle MSM headlines every other month with a fresh terrorist attack. Especially when they feel trapped in a cycle where we know the reasons why and a lot of things that need to be done, and they still happen anyway. The average person just feels like what more can I do? It's in the hands of my Government, police and special forces to protect the country. I can say kind words of support, condemn the attackers, retweet some hash tags and then I have to go to bed and go to work the next day. In a 'dark way' that is getting on with life when you move on almost insantly, but sure, it's still concerning normalisation is being reached at increasing speed in some minds.
No one should have to live in respectable societies where terrorist attacks happen often. Sadly at spells all throughout history humanity has been plagued with such actions. Humans will always kill each other for ideological reasons, we just have to fight back against such people and try to prevent and marginalise them.
edit: quick update from the BBC
I think the fact that the GAF community here in Spain isn't that big is also a factor
perfectchaos007
Member
Has any footage of the attack been released from local security cameras? Perhaps they can get a lead on the suspect of more footage can come out
TTOOLL
Member
This is pretty sad and you're correct. Also, the thread title is bad. Did the van drive itself? We transformers now?
that makes me think what's in store next time...
Tony Redgrave
Member
Yeah, I'm not going to lie, as a Spaniard it's a little bit disheartening to see this thread being barely active but then again the forum is basically North American and the Spanish community is small so it's understandable.
Still a big bummer this is becoming normative stuff.
Still a big bummer this is becoming normative stuff.
TTOOLL
Member
Let me tell what I think is happening. We all who did it and why they did it. We've had lots of threads before that turned into a battle between people attacking Islamic terrorism and Islam itself and others defending the religion, trying to disconnect it from the attacks.
The results would be some people banned for islsmophobia and an endless discussion. So I think people here just don't bother anymore taking about the bigger picture.
People express their condolences, pay their respect and move on. The Spanish community is not big indeed but let's not forget that people from other 34 countries are among the victims.
Crow Pudding
Member
The title is confusing too, it seems it's just a simple car accident.
airmangataosenai
Member
I do feel this story and our lack of response represents a major turning point in normalizing these attacks. There is no way around it anymore, major terror attacks in a western European country which lead to double digit casualties are no longer breaking news in the United States. We now expect them to come on a semi-monthly basis.
Well, I guess there's not much more to say about this beside the fact that I feel for people in Barcelona...
We've had a nice, quiet, 20 years respite, but we're just back in the 70s/80s/early 90s were triple-digit numbers of people were killed by terrorism each year. Or, in fact, it's still not as "bad".
Granted, the perpetrator has changed, but for people suffering for it, the result isn't much different :/
There's not much we can do, and giving them as little exposure as possible seems somehow the best thing to do. All they want is creating paranoïa and fear.
I'm sorry if some of you feel it this way... Don't take the size of the thread as an indication about how much people care. I'm really sad for people there, it's just... I don't thing arguing about it will bring anything of values. But my thoughts are with Spain now...
captjohnboyd
Member
Holy shit at that guy who just barely pushed the woman and baby in a stroller out of the way of the van right when it was flying by. That was Amazing and good on him he clearly just saved their lives there
Audioboxer
Member
ISIS propagate an ideology, and like with Hitler, ideologies can be immortal. Societies will always grapple with extremism, terrorism and individuals and groups that want to cause harm. They just have to find ways to keep the genie in the bottle, well monitored and have the resources to arrest and combat to prevent.
Combatting ISIS is part of the bigger picture, but we still have all the questions around why it is pretty much exclusively males who are susceptible to extremist indoctrination and why they carry out the attacks. The Finland attack is an 18 year old, a "boy" barely turned man. IIRC the Manchester bomber who went in and blew up children was quite young too (22?). Scripture being ridiculously patriarchal and putting men up on pedestals is probably part of it, as is the concept of martyrdom. It's the same in Christianity and Catholicism (excluding martyrdom) but for the most part for years now, we've managed to keep fundamentalist Christians and Catholics to battles of speech/protest. Not violence or widespread acceptance of abuse of women. Both have very bloody pasts/histories though, and outside of Europe, Catholicism especially, if you look to Africa and Asia, is still tied up in some real atrocities. Paedophilia is still a huge issue with Catholicism in the West as well, which if you ask me may as well be a form of terrorism against youth/children. The tldr being even in the West we still have many issues with religious fundamentalism, it just doesn't tend to be regular terrorist attacks these days (people like to bring up Christian abortion clinic violence, but that was really in the 80s and 90s).
Basically, no matter where you look there are men using religion for terrible indoctrination of thinking/acting. Which is partly why I hate the term Islamophobia. If someone is being racist just call them racist. Islamophobia gives power to the idea you should not criticise, ridicule, satirise or deconstruct religious texts/thinking/ideologies for fear of offending. As I routinely say one of the main reasons most countries in the West do pretty well with human rights and freedoms is because Christianity/Catholicism have gone through years of criticism/ridicule/satire and also the separation of Church and state on top (Religious law isn't going to happen here). If either had been able to kick off Christianophobia or Catholicophobia it might have made things harder for the societies. Neither of those concepts really kicked off, although there was plenty of pushback, we just went right through it and we have what we have now. Fairly liberal societies where religion is a private matter and not something most think they can use to terrorize, attack or oppress. Some of the vocal atheists of the 80s/90s/00s probably collectively doing their part to normalise critical thinking and debate around Christianity/Catholicism (yes, that includes Dawkins/Harris/Hitchens/Dennet even if liberals now hate them all).
Religions are thoughts and ideas, irrespective of people involving faith/spirituality and supernatural elements. Thoughts and ideas need to always be up for critical debate in any healthy society, and shutting that down is how you get some countries in the world where dissent, opinion and challenges end up resulting in jail/condemnation or worse. Hence, creeping-Islamophobia is not really something I enjoy seeing propagated in liberal societies that have little issue challenging the other Abrahamic religions. Racism is racism, you do not need special terminology to dress it up. Other societies use concepts of 'outlawed criticism' as I just said to control populations, and that cannot be accepted or supported in any liberal society which wants to try and combat extremism and terrorism. The people maybe can't do what the police and intelligence services can, but the people as a collective have the power of debate, thought and critical thinking. That can go ways to challenge dogmatic beliefs/extremism, just as it's partly responsible for getting us better LGBT and women's rights due to years of debate, critical thinking and science to back it all up (versus Christians/Catholics and the churches all screaming that homosexuality is a sin/block gay marriage). Check this study in the UK for changing views on LGBT even within religious communities. Not many kept going around saying #notallChristians or stop being Christianophobic. Populations did what they needed to do to challenge dogmatic viewpoints and fight back to normalise how it's healthy for a society to care about LGBT rights. It largely worked, but it's still ongoing work too, especially in America. Populations need to keep doing that each time any religion ends up producing extremist sects or viewpoints that spill into the open. Especially when we're talking about it taking the form of violent attacks and large loss of life. Wahhabism coupled with what some preachers teach about the Koran/Muhammad is causing serious problems around the world and like it or not that does tie back to Islam/Islamic doctrine.