Ganondorfo
Junior Member
You know an indie game is amazing, if it gets a thread that is not an official discussion thread. Sad that nobody is doing that for Specter of Torment.
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[redacted] Hollow Knight
- Thread starter Nzyme32
- Start date
Looks ok but it reminds me too much of that newgrounds flash animation era.
Give it a few weeks.
Chronospherics
Member
Would I like it if I don't like Axiom Verge and Castlevania but like Guacamelee, Shantae and Strider (2014)?
Depends on the reasons you didn't like Axiom Verge or the Castlevanias.
I backed Shovel Knight. It sits at about 500k sales on Steam alone. The game is already known well enough. I don't think more exposure will push Shovel knight any higher on it. It's a great success for Yachtclub games.
I think 500k is mighty fine and if Hollow Knight reaches even half of that on Steam I will be happy.
Hollow Knight is an amazing accomplishment whichs only weakness may conincidentially be in it's low guidance vastness. Trying a 100% in this game completely blind is insane and you will likely be much happier to consult some help for the final 7% YOU have missed since it will be different for everyone.
Incitemaybe
Member
Definitely plan to get this on Switch
Mister Wolf
Member
What appeals to me about this game is its art style that isn't retro looking like Shovel Knight or Axiom Verge. Will definitely pick this up on the Switch.
Primethius
Banned
Do we have a concrete date for the Switch version?
Ever since I saw it brought up on EZA and especially with their recent vid, I really want to play it.
Ever since I saw it brought up on EZA and especially with their recent vid, I really want to play it.
EVA UNIT 01
Member
I want this game so bad now
cmon bday steam cards
cmon bday steam cards
Chronospherics
Member
Quite a few reason for Axiom Verge, I didn't like the gameplay all that much, I felt that it was pretty basic, both Guacamelee and Strider have considerably more complex gameplay systems (Strider has bullet deflection and timing, Guacamelee has lots of combos and whatnot) and also I got lost quite often, wasn't sure where to go which was probably the biggest factor. Both Guacamelee and Strider always ensured I could progress because they have colour coded maps showing you placed you could unlock with your new powers.
Castlevania, I just found the movement was clunky and slow. I probably could have stuck with it longer.
Hrm. Your biggest hurdle will probably be the map system, which unfortunately doesn't have support for annotations. At least early on, I ended up printing the maps out so I could write notes on them. I liked Hollow Knight more than any of the games you listed but your mileage may vary based on taste.
Agreed.
GAF's history of praise for Dust and Ori certainly makes me wary of similar hype for Hallow Knight. Besides, most of the love seems to be centered on the art (which is polarizing at best) and the expansiveness/lengthiness (ditto).
More_Badass
Member
GAF praise for Ori?
And not like the very positive overall praise for Ori?
You shouldn't equate your dislike for something as everyone else being wrong
I love SM, and it still plays incredibly well, but I don't think it's remained fresh as a Metroidvania in the same way Super Mario Bros 3/Super Mario World has as a platformer. I still see those game pretty much unbeat in their genre, whereas I feel Metroid has been improved upon.
It's not a slight to SM, that game still ushered in a new style of games in the way only a handful of games can claim.
Of course not. People can very well enjoy things that I don't care for. I'm simply saying that I'm wary of taking GAF's recommendations in the way of Metroidvanias as so many that have been highly praised here I found disappointing.
Momodora and Guacamelee I really liked, but the praise for those was specific to combat, and in the case of Guac, also platforming and was accompanied by supporting gifs. So many others, like Dust, Ori, and Valdis Story I found unfulfilling, and tended to have less praise directed at those specific game mechanics but rather to graphical/technical achievement or worldbuilding. Hallow Knight appears to fall into the latter category.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Shovel Knight has received plenty of threads and it will receive plenty more.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
What's the thread title all about?
Yeah, I don't get it.
d00d3n
Member
Ori got A LOT of praise for the bash game mechanic that allows you to bounce from and redirect enemy projectiles. One of the most innovative and best realized traversal mechanics in a metroidvania imo.
More_Badass
Member
The combat, exploration, NPCs, world, etc. had been specifically praised quite a bit.
Personally I'd actually compare Hollow Knight's combat to Momodora, in how you have a basic weapon (leaf, nail) and combo that you upgrade and improve, with satisfying feedback for hits
It was "Hallow Knight is better than Super Metroid" or somesuch before the mod edit.
Mod didn't want op tarnishing super metroid.
Chronospherics
Member
Thanks, though I guess the bottomline is, am I liable to get lost, or stuck for hours on end?
That's my biggest turn off for a metroidvania game, i don't even mind not enjoying their combat systems, but getting stuck isn't fun for me. It's okay if it's a boss, or a puzzle that I'm stuck on, but if it's because I forgot about a door I need to open in the first region... I find that design difficult to tolerate.
Nah, I doubt it. The game becomes very non-linear later on and I was actually overwhelmed by the amount of locations I was able to explore. Granted, most of them optional but still, it's nice to have options. In early game, like most Metroidvanias, it's important to keep track of areas that you can now access because you've gotten new abilities.
The Illiterati
Member
I don't know why JB1234 feels differently, but you will definitely get lost. It's part of the charm of this game since it is so huge.
I think there's a distinction between getting lost and getting stuck.
More_Badass
Member
You will get lost in Hollow Knight. But that's part of the appeal. Diving into this otherworldly place, uncovering its secrets, meeting its weird inhabitants, peeking around its distant corners, and learning the map in the process
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Hollow Knight isn't nearly as unfocused as Axiom Verge nor does it have the same problem of offering many overlapping rewards, but its map design is as open. There are hints strewn about for the next step in your critical path if you talk to the right NPC's, but outside of that you're on your own. Hollow Knight has a decent amount of combat tools, but it's not in the same style as Guacamelee. Does have significantly more enemy diversity though, coupled with difficulty that isn't practically non-existent like it was in Guacamelee.
Gross at the bolded. Strider is a below-average Metroidvania and even worse of a sequel. Not entirely sure how you could mess up a game about a cyberpunk ninja, but Double Helix succeeded in that task with flying colors. Thoroughly unsatisfying on all fronts.
Ori on the other hand is indeed great fun as an action-platformer, but it fails to really capitalize on the strengths of a Metroidvania-esque structure. In between the blatant guidance + scripted nature killing exploration, it lacking combat (regardless of it not being a mandatory pillar) and most areas feeling like one-offs in how quickly they're disposed of, I wouldn't find it comparable to Super Metroid or Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. High-quality game all the same however, especially the production values and fluidity in controls.
Not to toot my own horn, but I can relate to your scepticism so maybe this post helps shed some more light in how Hollow Knight greatly differs from those games. I'd say it and Ori & The Blind Forest about as opposite in their execution as it gets, all-in-all.
If you found Ori's platforming and Valdis Story's combat unfulfilling then I don't quite know what to tell you man, except that if you haven't seen Hollow Knight's combat or platforming being specifically praised is because everything about that game is so fucking fantastic that one kind of gives up trying to single out one aspect of the game over the others and it's easy to end up like 'look this is the best metroidvania since forever ok?'. I'm sure you've already seen some of those comments by now. Trust me, there's no hyperbole there, that's just how it is.
Fredrik
Member
Interesting! The platforming looks a bit standard in the video but maybe it's just showing the start to not spoil anything? Ori was really unique by the end when it comes to the traversals. Is there a unique twist to the gameplay in HK too later on or is it mostly elevating what's already been done before?
PandaPedinte
Member
I really should buy Hollow Knight, maybe next month.
You start with a single jump, but slowly you unlock many traversal options.
BTW I still don't get why the title hasn't been changed back, are we not allowed to have opinions anymore?
Not that big a deal, but petty for sure.
I do wonder if the same mod will be happy to censor the same opinions from reviews such as the recent 10/10 from Destructoid asserting the same thing I did.
I dunno. I though Mods were supposed to have a High Salt tolerance to be one. I guess not.
Nocturnowl
Member
I honestly figured the title change was more to prevent the thread from focusing on super metroid comparisons and putting the focus on Hollow Knight fully.
Greatest Ever
Member
NeoGAF mods? Lol
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Yeah I remember that. Actually got me interested. Now, not so much.
thomasmahler
Member
Guys, let's please stop the fighting in here.
Personally, I'm just happy we're seeing Metroidvanias becoming more popular again. When we started development on Ori, the only company that would even dare to make Metroidvanias was Konami and since then they also dropped the ball. We pitched Ori as 'Hey, people love these kinda games and nobody is making them anymore!' (Apart from very small indie titles, I think Aquaria was the only 'bigger' budget thing that came close to being a Metroidvania), so it's just awesome to see that this genre - which obviously has a ton of hardcore fans - gets its fair share of games again.
Personally, I was turned off at first by Hollow Knight, since I saw the repeated level designs and the pacing threw me off - It took forever to get the first upgrades and when I first got a sword upgrade and my sword actually looked and felt pretty much the exact same afterwards, I was pretty disappointed, but I've since come around and got totally hooked and think it's a great game that I'd fully recommend. The more I played, the better it became.
I think it's senseless to compare Ori to Hollow Knight though, since both games try to go for something very different. Ori at the core is more of a platformer (which is why we put so much work into making the core controls feel great, until you were essentially just flying through the levels using Double Jumps, Bash, etc.), whereas Hollow Knight is much more focused on a more traditional approach. Just because you can jump in both Mario and Mega Man doesn't mean they're really all that comparable. The design philosophy behind both games was a totally different one and I for one enjoy the various approaches developers take within the genre
Rain World just tried to bring Survival Game Mechanics into the Metroidvania formula, so how rad is that?
Personally, I'm just happy we're seeing Metroidvanias becoming more popular again. When we started development on Ori, the only company that would even dare to make Metroidvanias was Konami and since then they also dropped the ball. We pitched Ori as 'Hey, people love these kinda games and nobody is making them anymore!' (Apart from very small indie titles, I think Aquaria was the only 'bigger' budget thing that came close to being a Metroidvania), so it's just awesome to see that this genre - which obviously has a ton of hardcore fans - gets its fair share of games again.
Personally, I was turned off at first by Hollow Knight, since I saw the repeated level designs and the pacing threw me off - It took forever to get the first upgrades and when I first got a sword upgrade and my sword actually looked and felt pretty much the exact same afterwards, I was pretty disappointed, but I've since come around and got totally hooked and think it's a great game that I'd fully recommend. The more I played, the better it became.
I think it's senseless to compare Ori to Hollow Knight though, since both games try to go for something very different. Ori at the core is more of a platformer (which is why we put so much work into making the core controls feel great, until you were essentially just flying through the levels using Double Jumps, Bash, etc.), whereas Hollow Knight is much more focused on a more traditional approach. Just because you can jump in both Mario and Mega Man doesn't mean they're really all that comparable. The design philosophy behind both games was a totally different one and I for one enjoy the various approaches developers take within the genre
Rain World just tried to bring Survival Game Mechanics into the Metroidvania formula, so how rad is that? thomasmahler
Member
Specter of Torment is brilliant. I love what those Yacht Club folks are doing
That said, I think the reason why you don't see that many threads about SK anymore is because they've been focusing a lot on what people just perceive as 'DLC'. People get more stuff within the same package, but by now it probably would've been wise for them to move on to make a whole new thing. Time to bug David again to jump on Shovel Knight 64 ASAP
When does it release for platforms other than Switch? Going to play the whole game on 3DS once it comes out, and I think we'll see more buzz about the game at that point anyway.
jim2point0
Banned
Just just GAF though. Both Ori and Hollow Knight are universally praised as great games. Hollow Knight is still my game of the year even after beating (and loving) Horizon Zero Dawn.
I still haven't gotten around to Momodora, but this sounds promising.