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Aaronology · Feb 25, 2017

Arrogant Bastard said:
It might be embarrassing, ignorant, and childish but it is specifically why she lost. This thread has been amazing and depressing, it has deflated me as a progressive more than anything since Clinton lost the election. I was feeling so damn hopefully and instantly it is dashed, we are fucking doomed; not because of Republicans but because of supposed Democrats. We so truly deserve this shit, we earned it.

Actual progressives who didn't like Hillary but cared about the left being motivated and focused in 18/20 would support her reaching out to her camp to get them energized. Because these people are just as needed as every other wing of the Left going forward and facing the GOP with a united front. I don't like Sanders much, but you better believe I want him firing up people who supported him and keeping them engaged and ready to turn out and I'd be a fool to criticize him for doing so.

We clearly have a lot of fools in this thread.

tbm24 · Feb 25, 2017

Gutek said:
I did. I saw more Bernie stickers/shirts/signs than Hillary. The excitement divide was real.

Come by my apartment, you'll see my Hillary sticker on my window in a sea of Trump signs, he still got rolled over in my county in Queens(so did Bernie for what it's worth). Signs don't indicate anything.

Nafai1123 · Feb 25, 2017

Gutek said:
Clinton was a mistake from the beginning. DNC shouldn't have pushed her. Only GAF took to her. The rest of America didn't give a fuck.

Pretty sure GAF isn't large enough to make up the millions of votes she won by in the primary.

E-Cat · Feb 25, 2017

tbm24 said:
He already set his precedent by losing. The solution isn't to try again with solely his approach.

By barely(!) losing to an ex-president's wife with 30 years of public exposure and the DNC backing them. Give it another 4 years. Maybe Trump was exactly what the progressives needed?

Sinfamy · Feb 25, 2017

Garrett Hawke said:
Smh a y'all for now hating on the one woman who tried her damnedest to rescue you from the orange turd who you voted in anyway because you thought she was robotic or some shit.

Bye.

I voted her despite not being my candidate of choice.
With that said she did not try "her damnedest".
Just look at her campaigning schedule, look at it.

You can blame it on ignorance, you can blame it on hubris, but there is hardly any good excuse in spending most of the campaign time fund raising in New York and California, and hardly ever visiting areas of great importance.
The same places where she lost by margins she never visited and had a terrible ground game. Almost like she learned very little from 2008.

Toxi · Feb 25, 2017

So wait, did Trump win because he was the only one who represents the poor forgotten white working class of real America and the Democrats need to only appeal to them if we want to win, or did he win because Hillary Clinton is the worst Presidential candidate ever?

Sun Bather · Feb 25, 2017

No dabbing? What a disappointment that video was. Not sure I can relate to her anymore, maybe if she made some comment about how great the new planet coaster is... But I bet she only plays the new rollercoaster tycoon game.

tbm24 · Feb 25, 2017

E-Cat said:
By barely(!) losing to an ex-president's wife with 30 years of exposure and the DNC backing them. Give it another 4 years. Maybe Trump was exactly what the progressives needed?

Barely? Please back that up with numbers.

Arrogant Bastard · Feb 25, 2017

UFO said:
What about it? Please explain.

Are you saying that none of her votes came from the mindset of "anybody but Trump", or "no choice but Hillary"?

Poster said, the rest of America didn't take to her.

Look at the popular vote, clearly that is wrong, Americans took to her just fine...they just happened to live in the wrong states.

ZeoVGM · Feb 25, 2017

Nafai1123 said:
Pretty sure GAF isn't large enough to make up the millions of votes she won by in the primary.

What he said is the definition of living in an Internet bubble. Visiting a few message boards and thinking you have a good understanding of the country.

royalan · Feb 25, 2017

ShironRedshift said:
Well, tell me... why is Hillary Clinton criticized to hell and back for the Iraq War vote and the super-predators comment, but Diamond Joe Biden, who also voted for the same war and wrote the crime bill the comment was about in the first place given a free pass for both of those things and treated as if they didn't exist, in addition to having his two failed bids for President completely swept under the rug? Why was Hillary's vote for the Iraq War in particular treated like an unforgivable sin during the primaries, but people don't seem to mind when it's Joe Biden voting for it? Because I can't figure out any reason for that double-standard about it not only being bad, but totally unforgivable-bad when it's HRC, but suddenly not that big of a deal anymore and "all in the past" when Joe Biden's name comes out, other than a combination of internalizing decades of smears for one but not the other and sexist double standards. If that stuff is enough to write Clinton off, it should also be for Biden, but yet...

But in any case, elections are complicated things. They aren't won or lost by any one of factors. Was it purely sexism? No. But it definitely played a damn significant role and was one of the multitude of reasons she lost.

YOU BETTER COME THRU WITH THIS WORD

xxracerxx · Feb 25, 2017

The more voices the better. I cannot believe the hate for Clinton is just as strong as ever.

Gutek · Feb 25, 2017

Nafai1123 said:
Pretty sure GAF isn't large enough to make up the millions of votes she won by in the primary.

California is. Rest of the country didn't care.

Billy_Pilgrim · Feb 25, 2017

Arrogant Bastard said:
I'm done with you, you are so disingenuous it is absurd. Stop engaging if you aren't willing to talk about what is being quoted.

It's incredibly simple. She didn't get enough votes to win an election.

JesseEwiak · Feb 25, 2017

E-Cat said:
By barely(!) losing to an ex-president's wife with 30 years of public exposure and the DNC backing them. Give it another 4 years. Maybe Trump was exactly what the progressives needed?

...And then Bernie can lose by even bigger margin than Hillary because moderate suburban voters in Colorado, Virginia, and Nevada decide not to vote for the guy who will raise middle class taxes and take away the good health insurance they've worked hard for and make them have the same insurance as unemployed layabouts.

Steel · Feb 25, 2017

E-Cat said:
By barely(!) losing to an ex-president's wife with 30 years of public exposure and the DNC backing them. Give it another 4 years. Maybe Trump was exactly what the progressives needed?

On what planet did Bernie lose in anything but a landslide? Hillary did far better against Obama than Bernie against Hillary. Furthermore, Trump actually won his primary with the RNC overtly trying to stop him, on the other hand.

All that being said: why the fuck are we relitigating this over Hillary Clinton releasing a freaking video? Where did she touch you wrong?

E-Cat · Feb 25, 2017

tbm24 said:
Barely? Please back that up with numbers.

On the order of a few percent (of the popular vote).

kirblar · Feb 25, 2017

UFO said:
Well for one Hillary and Trump are the same race- white- so that makes no sense.

"Democrat" = "Black people" is still very much a thing in parts of the US.

When Angus King in 1993 announced he was running as an independent instead of a Dem, he used the dogwhistle rationale of "The Democratic Party as an institution has become too much the party that is looking for something from government,"

The "Reagan Democrats" never went away. They just got older while the world changed around them. Rural areas (which are almost entirely white) went 80/20 Trump. These are people petrified of people who don't look or act like them because they grow up in bubbles and never actually interact with anyone who doesn't look or act like them.

Nafai1123 · Feb 25, 2017

Gutek said:
California is. Rest of the country didn't care.

She didn't only win the primary in CA though.

Gutek · Feb 25, 2017

God. Get it through your thick skulls. Next time, go where the energy and excitement is.

mxgt · Feb 25, 2017

ZeoVGM said:
What he said is the definition of living in an Internet bubble. Visiting a few message boards and thinking you have a good understanding of the country.

Reminds me of the hundreds of GAFers who were beyond convinced Hillary would win in a landslide.

ZeoVGM · Feb 25, 2017

Gutek said:
California is. Rest of the country didn't care.

He said the primary.

Tranqueris · Feb 25, 2017

Knuckle Sandwich said:
It's sad that the irrational hatred of her spread from the republicans and consumed so many. :-(

You'll get to see a replay of this successful strategy in 2020 if Democrats nominate another woman, I bet Republicans are already trying to see what they can use on someone like Gillibrand if she gets really popular and decides to run.

And also expect the usual, "why doesn't she smile more?" Garbage of course.

mjp2417 · Feb 25, 2017

Gutek said:
Clinton was a mistake from the beginning. DNC shouldn't have pushed her. Only GAF took to her. The rest of America didn't give a fuck.

Man, some of y'all really need to take a break from posting on neogaf.com sometimes. Even just for like an hour or two once a week.

Bonen no Max'd · Feb 25, 2017

Toxi said:
So wait, did Trump win because he was the only one who represents the poor forgotten white working class of real America and the Democrats need to only appeal to them if we want to win, or did he win because Hillary Clinton is the worst Presidential candidate ever?

whynotboth

This is a bad strawman because Hillary ignored the working class (nonwhite working class voted for her but in bad numbers for a Democrat) and Trump made at least some efforts to appeal to them.

That's not the whole story since this has been brewing for a long time and the problems run much deeper than any one candidate or election!

Carpe Libertatem · Feb 25, 2017

E-Cat said:
On the order of a few percent (of the popular vote).

He lost by 12%

That's not a few.

(For reference, Hillary won the primary popular vote in 2008 by about 1%. That's close.)

Arrogant Bastard · Feb 25, 2017

We so deserve Trump, this thread is a shit-show.

I'm going to drink and play HS, screw this.

UFO · Feb 25, 2017

Arrogant Bastard said:
Poster said, the rest of America didn't take to her.

Look at the popular vote, clearly that is wrong, Americans took to her just fine...they just happened to live in the wrong states.

Again... America didn't take to her. Look at her pre-election approval ratings. She won approximately half the vote just like every other Dem/Rep in the history of elections, that's not proof that America took to her. Low voter turnout is though. Especially against a historically bad and unprepared candidate like Trump.

E-Cat · Feb 25, 2017

JesseEwiak said:
...And then Bernie can lose by even bigger margin than Hillary because moderate suburban voters in Colorado, Virginia, and Nevada decide not to vote for the guy who will raise middle class taxes and take away the good health insurance they've worked hard for and make them have the same insurance as unemployed layabouts.

Right, because they were too dumb to realize their taxes would be effectively lowered.

Toxi · Feb 25, 2017

JesseEwiak said:
...And then Bernie can lose by even bigger margin than Hillary because moderate suburban voters in Colorado, Virginia, and Nevada decide not to vote for the guy who will raise middle class taxes and take away the good health insurance they've worked hard for and make them have the same insurance as unemployed layabouts.

Colorado actually went for Sanders over Clinton in the Primary. We were just smart enough to realize during the general election that letting Donald Trump be President because emails is really silly. We're not Wisconsin after all.

Aaronology · Feb 25, 2017

Billy_Pilgrim said:
It's incredibly simple. She didn't get enough votes to win an election.

No one is contesting that she lost, which you know. AB is right. You are an incredibly dishonest poster who deflects, strawmans or out right ignores messages that highlight your nonsense.

Ms.Galaxy · Feb 25, 2017

royalan said:
I mean fuck, let's see if the Bernie wing can win a primary first. Let's not pretend that only Bernie lost: almost all of the candidates he supported lost too. Hard Left candidates took the BIGGEST L in this election.

They couldn't even take down DWS, their biggest enemy.

But yeah, move aside Clinton supporters!

Yeah, progressivism in the United States doesn't work well because all one has to say is that they'll increase taxes and people will be up in arms against it. Look how universal healthcare is treated here, people want it but they don't want to pay for it. Coloradocare was up on the ballot last year, and it lost bigly by nearly 80% against it, and this is a blue-purple state. Even here in gaf, once Bernie's tax plan was release, people quickly turned and went against it.

On a side note, when progressivism did work in the United States, FDR, medicare, social security, foodstamps, and so on, it all came to happen because only white people would get it at the time. Since then those programs expand to people of color, and now white people complain about welfare queens, and mah tax money, and so on.

excelsiorlef · Feb 25, 2017

Gutek said:
Clinton was a mistake from the beginning. DNC shouldn't have pushed her. Only GAF took to her. The rest of America didn't give a fuck.

What?

Bruce Springsteen · Feb 25, 2017

Gutek said:
Clinton was a mistake from the beginning. DNC shouldn't have pushed her. Only GAF took to her. The rest of America didn't give a fuck.

Wow

We deserve Trump

Atlagev · Feb 25, 2017

royalan said:
I mean fuck, let's see if the Bernie wing can win a primary first. Let's not pretend that only Bernie lost: almost all of the candidates he supported lost too. Hard Left candidates took the BIGGEST L in this election.

They couldn't even take down DWS, their biggest enemy.

But yeah, move aside Clinton supporters!

Even in San Francisco, where he backed Jane Kim for State Senate, she lost to Scott Wiener.

And statewide, he backed Prop 61, which lost too.

Hydrus · Feb 25, 2017

It's time for her to go away. Just like the great Bill Burr said: " You blew it. Youuuuu blew it."

excelsiorlef · Feb 25, 2017

UFO said:
Well for one Hillary and Trump are the same race- white- so that makes no sense.

Which one campaigned on frequently unsubtle white supremacy?

E-Cat · Feb 25, 2017

Carpe Libertatem said:
He lost by 12%

That's not a few.

(For reference, Hillary won the primary popular vote in 2008 by about 1%. That's close.)

Fine, but it's all relative. No one could have predicted it would be anywhere near that close.

xxracerxx · Feb 25, 2017

Gutek said:
Clinton was a mistake from the beginning. DNC shouldn't have pushed her. Only GAF took to her. The rest of America didn't give a fuck.

You are fucking delusional.

LookAtMeGo · Feb 25, 2017

Was her message a positive one? Then I dont see a problem.

Gutek · Feb 25, 2017

xxracerxx said:
You are fucking delusional.

All the people acting like Hillary was beloved and a good choice are the ones who are delusional.

Hillary was T O X I C.

Coffinhal · Feb 25, 2017

excelsiorlef said:
Unfathomable that after everything that has happened since Trump took office that anyone who isn't a Trump supporter could say something like this

You would've had Trump or another ethno-nationalist in 2020 then. It's sad that you have to know what neofascism is to build a proper alternative, but don't blame the guy you quote, blame the political system you have, the DNC aristocratic/nepotist system and all the policies that were implemented, and most importantly, not implemented.

Curufinwe said:
The Bernie wing aren't going to get a president elected. It needs to be someone more moderate.

Is is a post from the DNC primary ? Because we saw who lost.

"Let's keep the same approach!! It was maybe a problem with her profile, there had a lot of fake news, russian involvement, people are dumb and uneducated etc"

Bruce Springsteen · Feb 25, 2017

LookAtMeGo said:
Was her message a positive one? Then I dont see a problem.

You think context and facts matter anymore? Haha

excelsiorlef · Feb 25, 2017

E-Cat said:
By barely(!) losing to an ex-president's wife with 30 years of public exposure and the DNC backing them. Give it another 4 years. Maybe Trump was exactly what the progressives needed?

And by barely you mean he lost by 12% and nearly 4 million votes

Clinton in 2008 barely lost to Obama. Sanders in 2016 solidly lost to Clinton. In fact it was clear after South Carolina last February that he was going to lose

Carpe Libertatem · Feb 25, 2017

E-Cat said:
Fine, but it's all relative. No one could have predicted it would be anywhere near that close.

You're just moving goalposts at this point

"Bernie lost, but not by as much as people thought he would lose by!"

i_am_ben · Feb 25, 2017

Hillary 2020.

Still with her.

It's my personal opinion, people. Don't rage too much.

Nafai1123 · Feb 25, 2017

I find it so odd that most of the time, there is a general consensus around here about providing evidence, thinking about things logically, and coming to conclusions based on that logic and evidence.

But when it comes to Hillary, throw all that shit out the window and get ready for hyperbole driven arguments with no critical thinking or basis in reality. It's really crazy to see just how much people fundamentally dislike her, because that is ultimately the only reason for such fervid and blind statements.

D i Z · Feb 25, 2017

Are people here seriously calling out for her to disappear and be quiet, and strip the party of the most visible rallying point that we might ever know as a collective in the next decade?
Seriously?

If you have the most recognizable face on the planet fully primed for outreach with a message ready to go, why would you not use your most effective delivery method?
The Neo-cons, Tea party, alt right, Reps, Nazi's, Birthers, Truthers, Flat Earthers, Anti Vaxers, Anti LGBTQ, Anti Education, Anti Immigrant, Anti black, Anti Union, Anti universal health care, Climate change deniers, Anti clean energy, Anti choice, Anti Liberty, Anti TRUTH, and the goddamned internet troll machine..... is hoping that this line of stupidity going on here will keep people looking at EVERYTHING except at the common goals.
That's how we lost before. That's how we'll lose again.

Hillary is in a position to continue the work that we need. Stop getting in her way and help for once.

E-Cat · Feb 25, 2017

excelsiorlef said:
And by barely you mean he lost by 12% and nearly 4 million votes

Still closer than anticipated!

funkystudent · Feb 25, 2017

ZeoVGM said:
This and the similar posts are so embarrassing, ignorant and childish.

Hillary is a good woman who wanted good things for this country. This hate that some people seem to have for her is insane.

I dont hate her. I just think her staying in public political view after the biggest ball dropping ever is not good. Everyone just needs to move on unless she wants to risk associating more people with her failure

Toxi said:
So wait, did Trump win because he was the only one who represents the poor forgotten white working class of real America and the Democrats need to only appeal to them if we want to win, or did he win because Hillary Clinton is the worst Presidential candidate ever?

Trump won because the Hillary campaign took a lot of the country for granted and didnt put the work in.

It was political hubris. Its not complicated. I think if the campaign was a bit smarter and worked harder in the right areas things would be a lot different.

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