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Angry Joe The Order 1886 Review.

Harlequin

Member
It's not even an attitude that every game has to reinvent the wheel. However, when a game has a premise that could it's extremely disappointing to see it squandered with the most by the numbers possible gameplay. My standards for games, especially next gen only new IPs are much higher than they were in 2007 when the first Uncharted came out. Also, making the player fight rebels in a game where the premise is "Knights of the round table during the industrial revolution fighting lycans using weapons made by nikola tesla" is also a really horrible idea. It's an incredibly odd design decision that the lycans have one AI tactic. These are supposed to be the enemies that terrorized humanity for centuries.

Agree to disagree on the rebels. I thought the story did a good job of taking me along for the ride, even though I wasn't fighting lycans. (Please do not confuse this with me saying it did a good job of explaining why we were fighting rebels. Not the same thing.) TBH, I expected not to fight a lot of lycans because I wouldn't have put a lot of them in there if I had been the one to write the story/design the game. When you have a menacing, scary enemy you just don't fill the entire game with encounters with them. You keep encounters rare and try to build up some tension and actually make it feel like something special. I'll admit, though, that the fact that they had one of these encounters fairly early on in the game and the fact that the lycans were pretty dumb and weak in combat did diminish that effect somewhat. Still, putting hordes of them in there would've been a terrible decision (perhaps one pack that you have to fight towards the end or sth could've worked).
 

tuna_love

Banned
Agree to disagree on the rebels. I thought the story did a good job of taking me along for the ride, even though I wasn't fighting lycans. (Please do not confuse this with me saying it did a good job of explaining why we were fighting rebels. Not the same thing.) TBH, I expected not to fight a lot of lycans because I wouldn't have put a lot of them in there if I had been the one to write the story/design the game. When you have a menacing, scary enemy you just don't fill the entire game with encounters with them. You keep encounters rare and try to build up some tension and actually make it feel like something special. I'll admit, though, that the fact that they had one of these encounters fairly early on in the game and the fact that the lycans were pretty dumb and weak in combat did diminish that effect somewhat. Still, putting hordes of them in there would've been a terrible decision (perhaps one pack that you have to fight towards the end or sth could've worked).
The werewolves weren't menacing or scary at all tho.
 

HORRORSHØW

Member
died at dickbutt
e8ivBzT.gif

(credit to TheDutchSlayer)
lmao. and that dude in the pic is totally nic cage.
 
It's amazing how much the media hates this game, pretty much universally. I am actually loving this game. It's exactly what I wanted, and needed at this point. I do enjoy reading/watching the reviews on this though.

It really reminds me of my feelings of Destiny; assuming there is a second entry in this franchise, it's going to be amazing. Franchise has a ton of potential, but didn't execute to its fullest extent in this entry. Also, a little bit like Assassin's Creed 1 to me as well, and I thoroughly enjoyed Assassin's Creed 1 as well.
 

GRaider81

Member
Love the intro. Personally think 4/10 is a bit mean but his points are valid.

I tend to agree with the 6/10s but personally I had a great weekend with it so I'd give it a 7
 

Alienous

Member
The point about the Elder Lycan boss fights is where RAD get a lot of unfair criticism, I think.

The re-use of that game mechanic for the final boss battle isn't really so much of a problem. The problem is that there's very little progression.

If there had been 5 of those kinds of fights, such as an additional tutorial duel at the beginning, then that would be smart game design. Introduce players to the mechanic slowly throughout the game, layering more and more elements until the final boss tests all of them. That could be a way of increasing the challenge. But the way The Order deals with it is a fight that is mechanically identical to the previous boss fight. You are expected to do nothing new with what you've learnt.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Agree to disagree on the rebels. I thought the story did a good job of taking me along for the ride, even though I wasn't fighting lycans. (Please do not confuse this with me saying it did a good job of explaining why we were fighting rebels. Not the same thing.) TBH, I expected not to fight a lot of lycans because I wouldn't have put a lot of them in there if I had been the one to write the story/design the game. When you have a menacing, scary enemy you just don't fill the entire game with encounters with them. You keep encounters rare and try to build up some tension and actually make it feel like something special. I'll admit, though, that the fact that they had one of these encounters fairly early on in the game and the fact that the lycans were pretty dumb and weak in combat did diminish that effect somewhat. Still, putting hordes of them in there would've been a terrible decision (perhaps one pack that you have to fight towards the end or sth could've worked).
Except for the fact that lycans aren't menacing at all the way they're portrayed in the game. The fights would feel special if it weren't for the fact that there is literally nothing unique or original about their inclusion. or The only time they're portrayed as something to be feared is during the first elder lycan encounter.
 

WITHE1982

Member
Love the intro. Personally think 4/10 is a bit mean but his points are valid.

I tend to agree with the 6/10s but personally I had a great weekend with it so I'd give it a 7

Same here. Played through it twice (once on hard once on easy) and I agree with a 7/10 score.

It kinda feels like a TV pilot episode. Setting up a long running series in the hope that it gets picked up by a network. I really hope it does get a sequel as I'd like to see what RAD can do once they remove the QTEs and forced walking sections. The story and lore itself I found fascinating.
 

FeiRR

Banned
Also, making the player fight rebels in a game where the premise is "Knights of the round table during the industrial revolution fighting lycans using weapons made by nikola tesla" is also a really horrible idea.
Quite a strange opinion from somebody who advocates AC games so much. Mixing history with fiction is exactly what those games/series do. It also has a lot of sense in TO but you would need to know the story.
It's an incredibly odd design decision that the lycans have one AI tactic. These are supposed to be the enemies that terrorized humanity for centuries. They should've been a shit ton more intelligent and menacing.
Those are animals, they don't have any intelligence. Again, you don't know the story and you based your opinion on what, youtube? Attack patterns change if you move from the corner (which he didn't). There's no other way in the mechanics to counter their attack other than dodging so what would you expect them to do?
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
The werewolves weren't menacing or scary at all tho.

And that was a big problem for me. There were a couple of gorgeous, and creepy environments in the game where they should've been placed, but instead we walked around, and fought a few rebels.

Hell, the werewolves didn't even howl. That's like werewolf 101. I wish I could've had some input in this game lol
 

T.O.P

Banned
Those are animals, they don't have any intelligence. Again, you don't know the story and you based your opinion on what, youtube? Attack patterns change if you move from the corner (which he didn't). There's no other way in the mechanics to counter their attack other than dodging so what would you expect them to do?

And yet they still attack from the same exact point, going back and forward until killed, there's ZERO variation in their pattern

Patterns shouldn't change based only on the mc location
 
I agree with the 4/10 for the most part. I don't think the game is fundamentally broken but it's so dull and boring I couldn't possibly score it anything over a 5.
 
while this is true, his reviews are usually so late the game he's reviewing is barely even relevant anymore.

Believe it or not, not everyone runs out to get the game the first day. His reviews generally get about 1 million - 2 million views. Seems like the games are relevant enough to generate that many views.
 

Haunted

Member
You have to have expectations to be disappointed. The writing has been on the wall for the Order for a long time.
Yet it made the top 10 of GAF's most anticipated games of 2015.

Believe it or not, not everyone runs out to get the game the first day. His reviews generally get about 1 million - 2 million views. Seems like the games are relevant enough to generate that many views.
That said, with YT personalities it's always a question of how many people watch the video for the game and how many watch it because it's the newest content from Joe.
 

Beefy

Member
And yet they still attack from the same exact point, going back and forward until killed, there's ZERO variation in their pattern

Yep, the AI was bad. It's a average (bad in places, great/good in others) game. If they iron out the flaws in a sequel The Order could be a great franchise.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Fine then, AC Unity. Same shit.

Point is anything below a 5/10 is when you get into shit that just doesn't function like it should.
Says who? Why? This makes no sense.

You could have a game that has no technical issues whatsoever but is just sitting there watching paint dry literally. That gets an automatic 5/10 for you?
 

kmag

Member
Except you feel that way anyway because the normal lycans encounters are all exactly the same, crapped space, two or three lycans, everytime. As well as the
two elder lycan boss fights.
This is the game's setting.


The fact that we spend 95% of the combat fighting humans despite this being the premise, AND
the fact that there is absolutely zero variety in the lycan encounters despite there being so few
is ridiculous.

That's because when you strip down the gloss, cinematics, the QTE's and issues about length etc, it's a mechanically sound but VERY basic corridor pop and shoot TPS, which seems a silly choice if you've created a scenario where your main nemesis is meant to be a melee opponent. So they spend 80% of the game contriving reasons for you to shoot humans (Rebels, United India Company guards...zzz), cos those humans you know can shoot back from their own chest high cover across from you.

It would be like making a TPS Aliens game, you just know that they'd concoct a reason for you to be shooting Weyland Yutani troops for pretty much the entire game.
 

Beefy

Member
Believe it or not, not everyone runs out to get the game the first day. His reviews generally get about 1 million - 2 million views. Seems like the games are relevant enough to generate that many views.

If that is correct then he has just spoiled a shit load of stuff for a review vid.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
The lycan attack patterns don't change, that's the only attack they have. They run at you, a dodge prompt shows up, then they run and hide again.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Attack patterns change if you move from the corner (which he didn't). There's no other way in the mechanics to counter their attack other than dodging so what would you expect them to do?

I never moved from the corner either, because it made no sense to. Seriously, why would you, when the corner gave you the lines of sight you needed to see them coming?

The worst part is after taking one down you need to run over to it and press triangle to execute it. That then triggers the cinematic scene of you killing it, causing the player to lose their sense of direction, once control is given back to you. That annoyed the heck out of me, because I wanted to scramble back to the corner, but had to regain my bearings as to where the corner was, before being attacked again.
 

T.O.P

Banned
The lycan attack patterns don't change, that's the only attack they have. They run at you, a dodge prompt shows up, then they run and hide again.

it also blew my mind that you are able to roll/dodge only in those circumstances, i mean, what's the fuckin point?
 

Raide

Member
The smelling their own farts thing seems fairly accurate. As long as they learn from the first game 1887 should be a damn amazing game but then it could be more of the same since RAD would rather make films than games.
 
Wow. From that review the game looks like an almost 3/10. How were people enjoying the game in the ot?
Graphics can make people forgive the bland gameplay.
I am curious if Joe will review Xenoverse or is it too long? Have to be glowing after DBZ Kinect.
 

FeiRR

Banned
And yet they still attack from the same exact point, going back and forward until killed, there's ZERO variation in their pattern
Not true. You get attacked from various directions. The attack happens after a certain period of immunity after you dodge the previous one, which is understandable, but is triggered in any direction. If you stand in that corner, there are only two options (front, and right). If you run around, you can be attacked from the side, back, etc. I've just checked that myself.
Patterns shouldn't change based only on the mc location
So what else? It's a rabid animal.
 

aravuus

Member
Fine then, AC Unity. Same shit.

Point is anything below a 5/10 is when you get into shit that just doesn't function like it should. The Order's really just average at worst, though I personally found it to be exceptional.

A game should to be functional to even justify getting reviewed. Using half the review scale for stuff that doesn't work makes absolutely no fucking sense at all, something can be far below average and function just fine.
 
Off topic: I am not a fan of this guys schtick. Yet, I love Zero Punctuation. Not sure what that means.

On topic: I probably won't watch the review (already own and beat the game and with someone like Joe, I know what he will complain about (same things a lot of reviewers and people here complained about). That being said, he does need to stop with the spoiler stuff without any warnings. Rip a game to shreds all you want, just dont spoil it for people.
 
Wow. From that review the game looks like an almost 3/10. How were people enjoying the game in the ot?
Because people have different opinions? I thought the game was great, as do many in the OT, who at the same time share constructive criticism and feedback. You should come by and read impressions.


Graphics can make people forgive the bland gameplay.
I can tell you haven't stepped foot in the OT thread.
 
Quite a strange opinion from somebody who advocates AC games so much. Mixing history with fiction is exactly what those games/series do. It also has a lot of sense in TO but you would need to know the story.

Those are animals, they don't have any intelligence. Again, you don't know the story and you based your opinion on what, youtube? Attack patterns change if you move from the corner (which he didn't). There's no other way in the mechanics to counter their attack other than dodging so what would you expect them to do?
If he watched the entire game from start to finish on Youtube, then yes, he knows the story and can talk about it. I don't like when people comment on gameplay without having played the game, but for story I'm pretty sure you can get the most out of The Order by just watching someone else play it.

And it's pretty ridiculous to claim Lycans don't have any intelligence, when the game clearly pretends otherwise. Even if they were just wolfs they would have better attack patterns.
 

Hasney

Member
Says who? Why? This makes no sense.

You could have a game that has no technical issues whatsoever but is just sitting there watching paint dry literally. That gets an automatic 5/10 for you?

tucson_ending1.jpg


Well, it never crashed and I never fell through the road.

6/10
 

16BitNova

Member
Okay. Isn't one of the points of reviews for people who are thinking about buying a game to get a sense of what they're buying...without ruining the whole game? All of this guys reviews are FULL of spoilers.

His points all make sense. However, I still very much enjoyed this game. I think people tend to forget the direction the developers set for this game. Its like some of these reviewers came in expecting an awesome action/adventure game with good visuals. Yet, the developers clearly said they were going for a cinematic experience. They achieved that with great success AND the game play was good. What more do you want. The game was trying to tell a story. In my opinion it did that very well. These reviewers man... to me its like them saying " Ugh. Gone Home (great indie game) was so boring, so much walking around, picking stuff up, this game sucks". Not all games are made with the same intentions.
 
Yet it made the top 10 of GAF's most anticipated games of 2015.
It also has an 80 page OT full of satisfied customers.

RAD has been telling us for months that it was going to be a "filmic" QTE fest with gameplay as a second thought. Maybe people were surprised at the length but the game itself seems to be living up to expectations for most people involved, whether they like it or don't.
 

derExperte

Member
If the AI was anything like real wolves, the player wouldn't stand a chance.

That's where gadgets could've come in. Make them sit back and lure you out so standing in corners doesn't work, do something like Dying Light with light to scare/wound them while they leap, confuse their sense of smell somehow, heck I wouldn't even have a problem with QTEs for the kill but make it a challenge to get to that point. During the first fight I seriously thought the ai glitched out or something.
 
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