Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
The game was way too hard and took skill. I dont blame the journos.
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Why was Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze snubbed by gaming journalists?
- Thread starter Gonzo The Great
- Start date
Spieler Eins
Member
It's a lazy sequel, in a genre that's way oversaturated atm. If you've played DKC Returns or the port just a little earlier, this game offers nothing new. Level gimmicks are mostly the same, progression and unlockables are identical, graphics aren't really outstanding, despite being a 2D rehash, making certain areas look like the Wii game running on Dolphin. Rayman Legends was more creative as a sequel and you didn't need a new machine for it. Calling it ,,best 2D platformer'' is completely irrelevant, since it's barely a slightly improved rehash of something you've already played just recently on old-gen hardware in near identical form. The props need to go to the Wii game, if anything. Same goes for these embarrassing New Mario map packs. Improving upon Super Mario World decades later isn't an astonishing feat and the ,,best 2D Mario'' comments are completely nullified because of the sheer laziness of these projects. Not to mention, with indies and all that jazz, you've got so many high quality 2D platformers atm, it's turning even further into a meaningless feat. Should have either been 3D Donkey Kong, or the second Retro Studios project after something new first. This title is one of the better representations of why the Wii U failed: No ambition. Instead, quickly phoned-in and rehashed concepts, which only exist because the original Wii audience allegedly was into more simple minigames and 2D titles. I'm glad this didn't work out for Nintendo and didn't send them the wrong signals. Too bad for Wise though.
Nocturnowl
Member
I go back and forth on whether or not snubbed is too strong a word here, I mean reviews are still favourable but that said considering how surprisingly positive press the Wii U picked up on its games last year it was rare that DK got mention among the Kart and Smash behemoths, DKC TF got the ball rolling in 2014 for the Wii U but Mario Kart was the one that really captured people's attention and turned the perception, DK like Pikmin 3 was just another solid game to most in the media it would seem.
See part of me would say that retail release 2D platformers just aren't something most reviewers are going to be like "WOWEE" over at this point in time but then again Rayman Legends was but a few months earlier and walked away with some of the best scores of the year (and was then also promptly ignored at the end of it so...yeah).
And even in the download space Shovel Knight was a thing last year and was often praised for its fun execution of a classic NES action platformer formula, it too was received well.
Heck lets throw in 3D World as well, plays 2D enough in its structure.
I will say that I do feel that among some there's something of a small stigma attached to Donkey Kong that say Super Mario doesn't share, you only had to read a few reviews to get impression that either some reviewers didn't expect it to be as good as they found it to be because DKC1 still exists or something about Rare's nineties style designs.
It also got given an odd amount of flak for its difficulty by some, most bewilderingly to me the idea some claimed that the level design was set up with enemies placed in spots to kill the player when landing on a new platform or halting the flow of gameplay when it's anything but, it's the game that makes you earn that flow but blunder through and there is none (a bit like classic Sonic in that regard).
Maybe this is part of the divide, player skill in this game in particular can cast a big difference in enjoyment, those that grasp DK's weighty movement and move with it compared to those that wrestle unsuccessfully and probably think Dixie Kong is mandatory or else they'll fall down all the pits.
It genuinely does make me wonder if Rayman Legends enemy fodder approach where they line themselves up to die domino style and barely attack (note Origins was not quite like this) created this shift in thought seeing as DKCR which handled its difficulty with a few cases of genuine "GOTCHA" moments yet never seemed to get called out for it back then.
Oh but anyway, in the end it is what it is, often I find my favourite games fall into the 75-89 metacritic approved bracket and that's probably because games landing here aren't going to bend fully over backwards to be accepting to all comers to reach that golden land of mass 90 plus acceptance, I'm glad Tropical Freeze made the right moves regarding difficulty coming off returns, fairer yet still challenging enough in a genuine way.
Not even sure where to start with soundtrack stuff, I feel like the media basically just looks at the big hitters of the year and throws a dart to determine that one unless they're a site that tends to focus on musical aspects in general.
See part of me would say that retail release 2D platformers just aren't something most reviewers are going to be like "WOWEE" over at this point in time but then again Rayman Legends was but a few months earlier and walked away with some of the best scores of the year (and was then also promptly ignored at the end of it so...yeah).
And even in the download space Shovel Knight was a thing last year and was often praised for its fun execution of a classic NES action platformer formula, it too was received well.
Heck lets throw in 3D World as well, plays 2D enough in its structure.
I will say that I do feel that among some there's something of a small stigma attached to Donkey Kong that say Super Mario doesn't share, you only had to read a few reviews to get impression that either some reviewers didn't expect it to be as good as they found it to be because DKC1 still exists or something about Rare's nineties style designs.
It also got given an odd amount of flak for its difficulty by some, most bewilderingly to me the idea some claimed that the level design was set up with enemies placed in spots to kill the player when landing on a new platform or halting the flow of gameplay when it's anything but, it's the game that makes you earn that flow but blunder through and there is none (a bit like classic Sonic in that regard).
Maybe this is part of the divide, player skill in this game in particular can cast a big difference in enjoyment, those that grasp DK's weighty movement and move with it compared to those that wrestle unsuccessfully and probably think Dixie Kong is mandatory or else they'll fall down all the pits.
It genuinely does make me wonder if Rayman Legends enemy fodder approach where they line themselves up to die domino style and barely attack (note Origins was not quite like this) created this shift in thought seeing as DKCR which handled its difficulty with a few cases of genuine "GOTCHA" moments yet never seemed to get called out for it back then.
Oh but anyway, in the end it is what it is, often I find my favourite games fall into the 75-89 metacritic approved bracket and that's probably because games landing here aren't going to bend fully over backwards to be accepting to all comers to reach that golden land of mass 90 plus acceptance, I'm glad Tropical Freeze made the right moves regarding difficulty coming off returns, fairer yet still challenging enough in a genuine way.
Not even sure where to start with soundtrack stuff, I feel like the media basically just looks at the big hitters of the year and throws a dart to determine that one unless they're a site that tends to focus on musical aspects in general.
It really feel it would've scored higher if it were a Mario game, DK forever trapped in his shadow
spielereins.gif
The reverse persecution complex at its finest
Spieler Eins said:
Ignoring the rest of the inanity of your post, this particular sentence stood out. I have played many-an-amazing indie platformer recently (including Shovel Knight) but none of them have the craft that DK did. It's what a big-budget platformer (well, big budget for the genre) looks like, both in execution, design, placement and audiovisually. Your post makes me wonder if you've even played it (though many of your posts take that type of tone).
Have you played it?
You want to know why it was snubbed?
It's not indie. It's 2D. By Nintendo, on Wii U no less. And it's difficult as fuck.
It was my GOTY last year and it's a shame that many gamers passed up one of the best 2D platformers in years because it's fucking Donkey Kong. You did good Retro.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Hero of Legend
Member
It wasn't a hardcore game that so many had hoped Retro were making, everyone wanted Prime 4 or a new IP.
It was also yet another 2D platformer, and honestly to me those are too frequent and with hardly any 3D platformers to go with them. I think at the very least if TF was a 3D platformer that would've grabbed a lot of attention only because of that, and since it would be DK's first since DK64 14 years prior.
And to top it off? It was kinda ugly.
The fur is very well done... that's really about it, and the colors did pop when I saw it in person, but yeah it leaves a lot to be desired in a visual front.
One big issue is shadows. They are as barebones as you can get AND the characters all have circle shadows, in an HD game, by Retro Studios, the studio that made state of the art-looking games like the Metroid Prime series. Even today Prime 1 is a BEAUT.
Tropical Freeze didn't warrant over 3 years of dev time after Returns. Honestly it should've been a cross-gen release on Wii and Wii U at launch. And by now we'd be seeing something huge from Retro on Wii U coming up.
Not to mention art-wise it also is lacking. I mean Rare had atmosphere out the wazoo. I think not getting Kevin Bayliss to be the Art Director was a horrible mistake. He was very available and if they went to the trouble to get David Wise back, they should've done the same with him.
The game looks like Madagascar, and not even as good with what they can use on Wii U, as like I said shadows are really bad in the game, and even with the extra lighting they added just prior to release, it's still not that good looking. Nintendoland was a launch title and it's leaps and bounds prettier, especially with the lighting and shadowing in the plaza area.
That's my view. *puts on flame shield*
It was also yet another 2D platformer, and honestly to me those are too frequent and with hardly any 3D platformers to go with them. I think at the very least if TF was a 3D platformer that would've grabbed a lot of attention only because of that, and since it would be DK's first since DK64 14 years prior.
And to top it off? It was kinda ugly.
The fur is very well done... that's really about it, and the colors did pop when I saw it in person, but yeah it leaves a lot to be desired in a visual front.
One big issue is shadows. They are as barebones as you can get AND the characters all have circle shadows, in an HD game, by Retro Studios, the studio that made state of the art-looking games like the Metroid Prime series. Even today Prime 1 is a BEAUT.
Tropical Freeze didn't warrant over 3 years of dev time after Returns. Honestly it should've been a cross-gen release on Wii and Wii U at launch. And by now we'd be seeing something huge from Retro on Wii U coming up.
Not to mention art-wise it also is lacking. I mean Rare had atmosphere out the wazoo. I think not getting Kevin Bayliss to be the Art Director was a horrible mistake. He was very available and if they went to the trouble to get David Wise back, they should've done the same with him.
The game looks like Madagascar, and not even as good with what they can use on Wii U, as like I said shadows are really bad in the game, and even with the extra lighting they added just prior to release, it's still not that good looking. Nintendoland was a launch title and it's leaps and bounds prettier, especially with the lighting and shadowing in the plaza area.
That's my view. *puts on flame shield*
Dr. Black Jack
Member
ahaha was wondering when this douchenozzle would show up
2D or 3D? If both, then lol.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
It's not "too hard." All kinds of hard games get plenty of love from critics.
It's just an entirely unremarkable game, and an entirely unremarkable 2D platformer. Accept it.
It's just an entirely unremarkable game, and an entirely unremarkable 2D platformer. Accept it.
d00d3n
Member
Isn't Rayman one of the most notoriously difficult 2d platformers ever released?
bobawesome
Member
This is sadly the truth when it comes to most Wii U exclusive titles. Look, it's okay to enjoy a game if it's released on your system of choice but you don't have to act like each one was forged by the hammer of Thor itself.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Goofy name of Tropical Freeze... it doesn't sound epic. It sounds like the old drink or ... like a non-serious or goofy add on to DKC Returns.
I dunno, getting something like DKC1, DKC2, DKC3, DKC Returns - something that seems like it's part of an ongoing series. The game is great, but it was named very poorly.
I dunno, getting something like DKC1, DKC2, DKC3, DKC Returns - something that seems like it's part of an ongoing series. The game is great, but it was named very poorly.
Randomizer
Member
Those saying a 83 Metacritic score is good have to understand lesser games like Rayman Legends (92) scored higher and it is a vastly inferior game. Tropical Freeze is literally one of the best 2D platformers ever made, just like the original DKCR. The game is underrated and was indeed snubbed.
The only thing I don't fully understand is why it scored lower than DKCR did, when I think it's the better game in a lot of areas, controls particularly.
Oh well, reviews are reviews. Getting bent out of shape over them is quite possibly one of the lamest things you can do in your life.
Also, snubbed is harsh. It scored super well.
To the guy who said it was ugly and not "art-looking": Did we play the same game?
Oh well, reviews are reviews. Getting bent out of shape over them is quite possibly one of the lamest things you can do in your life.
Also, snubbed is harsh. It scored super well.
To the guy who said it was ugly and not "art-looking": Did we play the same game?
Holy Order Sol
Member
...........no?
Solid SOAP
Member
I haven't played any DKC game past Returns, but I can honestly say I feel Returns is superior to the classics.
Can't believe what I reading here. Have you seen more than a couple of minutes of this game?
Kelegacy
XBOX - RECORD ME LOVING DOWN MY WOMAN GOOD
Maybe I'm an anomaly, but I played through the game and while fun, I will never remember any of it fondly like I do other games. Nothing stood out. It felt like more of Donkey Kong Returns. That's not a bad thing, but it felt way too safe to stand out in the pack.
It was one of my most forgettable titles of 2014 to be honest, even though it was a good game.
It was one of my most forgettable titles of 2014 to be honest, even though it was a good game.
EatinOlives
Member
It's a pretty fun platformer, but other than the music (which was amazing) it didn't really leave a lasting impression on me. The way they handled momentum was something I never got comfortable with, even after having finished it.
It's a good game no doubt. I had a lot of fun with it and I walked away with a positive view of the game as a whole, but it's not the second coming of jesus like a lot of people on GAF like to hype it as.
It's a good game no doubt. I had a lot of fun with it and I walked away with a positive view of the game as a whole, but it's not the second coming of jesus like a lot of people on GAF like to hype it as.
Not sure how anyone can say this with a straight face. Rayman Legends was regressive as fuck going from Origins and a much better example of a lazy 2D sequel.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Let me lighten you up mine was actually sarcasm lol
DragonSworne
Banned
Because it's another Donkey Kong. People wanted Retro to work on a different game for Wii U and the disappointment from the initial reveal lingered through the life cycle of the game.
Journalists can be victims of hype, some would say too often.
Journalists can be victims of hype, some would say too often.
The original Rayman, sure. Origins a little bit, but Legends was really easy overall
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Such opinions. Both modern Rayman games do literally everything better than their DK counterparts. IMO, of course.
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
It confuses me, too.
It's not just because it's a platformer. Both Mario 3D World and Rayman Legends came out just a few months earlier, and both of those games are at 90+ on Metacritic. And Tropical Freeze is so much better than both of those games, especially Rayman, which I think should be in the 70s tops.
It's not just because it's on Wii U. Plenty of Wii U games have much higher Metacritic scores.
The most common complaint in reviews seemed to be that it's too similar to Returns, which I don't get. It's not like they're going all Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty and releasing a new game every year. There was over a 3 year gap between Returns and Tropical Freeze. Tropical Freeze was the second one that played like this. Why is it being similar to Returns a bad thing? Why didn't Rayman Legends and Mario 3D World get the same shit for playing just like their predecessors?
The only thing I can figure is that a lot of reviewers were still stuck in the, "Ugh, Retro is making other Donkey Kong game instead of Metroid?" mentality.
It's not just because it's a platformer. Both Mario 3D World and Rayman Legends came out just a few months earlier, and both of those games are at 90+ on Metacritic. And Tropical Freeze is so much better than both of those games, especially Rayman, which I think should be in the 70s tops.
It's not just because it's on Wii U. Plenty of Wii U games have much higher Metacritic scores.
The most common complaint in reviews seemed to be that it's too similar to Returns, which I don't get. It's not like they're going all Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty and releasing a new game every year. There was over a 3 year gap between Returns and Tropical Freeze. Tropical Freeze was the second one that played like this. Why is it being similar to Returns a bad thing? Why didn't Rayman Legends and Mario 3D World get the same shit for playing just like their predecessors?
The only thing I can figure is that a lot of reviewers were still stuck in the, "Ugh, Retro is making other Donkey Kong game instead of Metroid?" mentality.
Coffee Dog
Banned
The truth is that the game stands out for the same reasons DKC2 stood out; fantastic, fluid level design.
How are you going to sell that to the masses in 2015? hell, do you think that that would even appeal to the majority of GAF? You can't really show that in commercials, trailers or really anything other than extended playtime with the game.
And in the world of 1000 indie games trying to be the next shovel knight, if you don't have an immediately apparent hook, you get passed by.
How are you going to sell that to the masses in 2015? hell, do you think that that would even appeal to the majority of GAF? You can't really show that in commercials, trailers or really anything other than extended playtime with the game.
And in the world of 1000 indie games trying to be the next shovel knight, if you don't have an immediately apparent hook, you get passed by.
yeah I was talking Legends
yup. he literally has his own gif because he's a big sourpuss.
Holy Order Sol
Member
It's Spieler Eins
evilromero
Member
I was disappointed by how short it was but overall I knew what I was getting into. It's a 2D platformer that held closely to what was established by Returns, which is a good thing. But nothing overly ambitious in terms of pushing the series forward.
I imagine people are talking about Origins and Legends here, both games being much more forgiving when it comes to death, not counting land of the livid dead
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
I bet those 90+ metacritics be killing you
I love platformers. I've played almost all the major ones.
To be completely honest, I think Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends are better than anything Nintendo has put out since the 1990s. Including Tropical Freeze.
Great music, great presentation. But horrendously tacked on co-op (basically false advertising) and not that much diversity in gameplay.
To be completely honest, I think Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends are better than anything Nintendo has put out since the 1990s. Including Tropical Freeze.
Great music, great presentation. But horrendously tacked on co-op (basically false advertising) and not that much diversity in gameplay.
Just making sure, heck I still remember that Kotaku guy who whined on twitch that Tropical Freeze wasn't as easy as Legends :lol
MaverickHunterX
Member
Can you elaborate please? I'm curious about this...
short?!?! it took me 40 hours to play all the levels in the game