Ah, my bad, I have those NoScripted out.
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The Games Journalism Thread: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Hyperzephyrian
Banned
All I have to say is this: I'm glad Kuchera isn't writing about games anymore. Hopefully that's permanent.
Since it's about Famitsu time again, this got me thinking.
Does Kotaku Japan host Game Informer scans? They don't provide Japanese language coverage to my knowledge, and I can't imagine the magazine gets many subscribers in the region. If not, why?
It's real hard to get worked up over magazine scans given the state of magazines these days. They only "get scoops" in the sense that a publisher cuts a deal with a magazine to release an "exclusive". Like, if the only thing I'm looking at a scan for is "hey this new game exists and here's like a screenshot and bit of promotional art" then who cares, it's a press release that happens to be in a magazine so whatever. This is usually the kind of thing I see Famitsu scanned for: hey check out this new Pokemon in the new game, hey Bravely Second is real here's a drawing of Edea. Those don't really matter. If the article scanned is some "exclusive in-depth preview" with developer interviews and stuff then that's something we can talk about.
I guess it comes down to how much of this magazine article came out of a press kit and how much is original writing.
I guess it comes down to how much of this magazine article came out of a press kit and how much is original writing.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Brakke: It sounds like your proposed approach to scans is basically "if the magazine doesn't deserve the exclusive, then we can post the scans. If they do, then we shouldn't."--which is sort of the same as people who post whole articles because they "don't want to give the site the clicks". I don't think that's a good principle to drive how sites approach IP issues. It may be the case that rules against posting scans are untenable to enforce given the state of things today, but I certainly don't think the approach should be "why bother, I don't even like Famitsu".
Yeah you're totally right of course. No Scans Period is probably the best policy for GAF, why bother trying to negotiate the line? But No Scans Period is not a good policy all up. It's sort of like reporting on leaks: if there are stakes and the subject matters, then it's worth spending the time to figure out what side of the line running this particular story is on. Depending on the content of the scan, we could make a public interest case. For GAF, we stand so little to gain from exploring that line and so much to lose --it's not worth getting sued over a grainy pic of Mega Pikachu.
But if I'm bopping around Kotaku or Serebii or wherever and happen to encounter a scan that's just a picture of a 'mon then I'm not about to fire off a letter to the editor standing on The Principle Of The Thing. Because why? What is endangered by sharing magazine scans that only consist of a title and a couple sentences of copy and a few pieces of promotional art? The publisher's job, I guess? For as long as the publisher defines his job as "running these kind of nothing features", anyway.
But if I'm bopping around Kotaku or Serebii or wherever and happen to encounter a scan that's just a picture of a 'mon then I'm not about to fire off a letter to the editor standing on The Principle Of The Thing. Because why? What is endangered by sharing magazine scans that only consist of a title and a couple sentences of copy and a few pieces of promotional art? The publisher's job, I guess? For as long as the publisher defines his job as "running these kind of nothing features", anyway.
Some inside baseball for anyone who might be interested: http://tmi.kotaku.com/objectivity-in-journalism-1699347446
Just throwing this in here as a reference on how honest in-depth interviews should be conducted. David Jenkins is brilliant. Here's the archive:
http://metro.co.uk/tag/games-interview/
http://metro.co.uk/tag/games-interview/
Anyone else feel the quality of Eurogamer is dropping quite fast?
Late and inconsistent reviews.
Little original news stories (sourcing generally from GAF/Reddit).
Increase in click bait articles.
Best of lists (urgh) with Amazon referral links to generate revenue.
Generally the comment section on the site isn't a happy place. The MK review (awful review) is a prime example.
Late and inconsistent reviews.
Little original news stories (sourcing generally from GAF/Reddit).
Increase in click bait articles.
Best of lists (urgh) with Amazon referral links to generate revenue.
Generally the comment section on the site isn't a happy place. The MK review (awful review) is a prime example.
Has he left Polygon?
Writing movie / tv stuff instead.
EDIT wait huh. So he did this: I'm taking a break. It's not you, gaming, it's me. But then he has game-related articles on Polygon most days since then.
I dunno lol.
More_Badass
Member
But no less clickbait-y. The original title of this article was "The leaked Batman v Superman trailer is everything wrong with DCs films"
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
Wait, when did this happen?
When it comes to news, it's important to bear in mind that over 80% of news stories for any publication or broadcaster will come from press releases from companies. Journalists will take a press release and usually take their own angle on it and maybe do some additional investigation.
Of course, when almost all of your news is around products, your press release new stories are going to be very commercial. And that causes some distrust within the audience as the publications becomes more of an advertising tool than a source of unique information.
I truly appreciate it when I read a proper investigative report into a gaming issue. Those articles are rare gems that brighten my day. Unfortunately they don't get anywhere near as many hits as Top 10 Most Anticipated Tits.
When it comes to discussions or podcasts - where the "journalists" sit and talk to each other about current issues or interests - that's not really journalism. That's just entertainment. There is a difference between delivering news and talking about news.
I would like to see gaming get its own Mock the Week. That would be awesome.
Of course, when almost all of your news is around products, your press release new stories are going to be very commercial. And that causes some distrust within the audience as the publications becomes more of an advertising tool than a source of unique information.
I truly appreciate it when I read a proper investigative report into a gaming issue. Those articles are rare gems that brighten my day. Unfortunately they don't get anywhere near as many hits as Top 10 Most Anticipated Tits.
When it comes to discussions or podcasts - where the "journalists" sit and talk to each other about current issues or interests - that's not really journalism. That's just entertainment. There is a difference between delivering news and talking about news.
I would like to see gaming get its own Mock the Week. That would be awesome.
Hyperzephyrian
Banned
Huh. Well, that didn't last long. Too bad.
Uh, wow. Aren't you an editor, or are you just an article writer? It seems weird that editors on the US side wouldn't know what the other regions are doing from the "higher ups"/Gawker editorial supervisors.
Only Kotaku.com is part of Gawker - we license out the brand to other companies for the various non-US sites. Kotaku UK is part of Future, Kotaku AU is part of Allure, etc. We work pretty closely with the folks at Kotaku UK and AU, but I've never interacted with anyone from the non-English language sites.
I stopped reading Eurogamer last year but I dont think the late reviews are their fault. It's what a good number of their readers were demanding after the Sim City/Battlefield 4 launches and they decided not to attend press events for the sake of transparency.
Their reviews are inconsistent but that's the nature of opinions. At least they've taken the brave step of dropping scores.
Delusibeta
Banned
I've seen a few reviews where it's pretty obvious that the reviewer took one look at the box, decided he/she wasn't going to like the game and set out to try to prove that conclusion right. USGamer's recent reviews of Idea Factory's stuff being a particularly good example of this in action, but I think racing and fighting games generally tends to also be affected. Less of that, please.
The generational transition also revealed shocking amounts of apologism towards Microsoft, to the point where I think a few people (Ben Kuchera, Arthur Gies) weren't trying to hide their Microsoft fanboyism. I would like less fanboys (and fangirls) in the games press, please.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Eurogamer just sent me an ad for Hotline Miami. No joke. It's just an ad. As a PM.
Nothing redeeming about it and it's not a EG giveaway as far as I can tell.
This is what they sent me:
If you're a fan of Hotline Miami, you've got a bit over a day left to pick up the Hotline Miami Gamer's Edition. Custom-designed by Dennaton games, it includes both games on Steam and DRM-free DVD, the print trade of the Hotline Miami comic, a Dennaton-curated mixtape and more. It's one-off, being made to order and the orders close tomorrow, so get it while you can.
Uhm....thanks?
Delusibeta
Banned
It's an advert for Eurogamer's new "putting digital games in a box" scheme called Gamer's Edition. Thus far it's been a bit of a wet fart, with Papers Please missing its target and the Hotline Miami edition just about scraping into production. But yeah, it's their product and they're going to advertise it on their site. Admittedly, sending everyone a advertorial PM is a bit tacky, but still.
Saw the article today...sort of interesting. I do think it downplays the entire ESportsExpress shenanigans Lewis pulled as well as just how bad Lewis gets at times, though. (Also, I think ESEX did confirm that Lewis threatened to dox the reddit mods).
I guess I'm wondering whether its easier for news sites to side with the journalist rather than the reddit mods?
I edited that article, and I actually think Yannick did a really good job of staying fair and presenting the story with as many angles as possible. And, no, I don't think we'd ever intentionally sympathize with the journalist just because he's a journalist, although of course there's always the risk of subconscious biases seeping in. It didn't help that the mods didn't respond to his requests for comment, either.
Ah, kk. The mods not responding didn't help - definitely right about that.
Good summary of the whole thing though - I had been trying to piece it together via other sites; but glad someone summarized the whole thing.
Here is a really bad article: http://techcrunch.com/2015/05/10/why-games-journalism-should-update-its-thinking/
More_Badass
Member
While I don't agree with the shift the article is talking about, I do wish more sites took mobile gaming seriously. It's so much more than stuff like Candy Crush and little time wasters.
Totally agree that writing about mobile games is not some untapped blue ocean for the games press to exploit, but can't disagree quite so strongly that there needs to be some market expansion somewhere for the sector to stay healthy.
But in that case, where is the growth going to come from? At a guess I'd point to esports as an under-served market in the core games media, but where else can you look for those extra clicks these days?
A few years ago, you would've had a point, but today I think most mainstream gaming sites are covering the likes of Hearthstone and Threes and FF Dimensions and 80 Days and Monument Valley and other top-notch mobile games.
vxXJordanXxv
Banned
One of the things I have a problem with is people judging an articles review based on the person reviewing it or not reading a review because it was a bad score. Jason Schreier reviewed Xenoblade Chronicles negatively and I love that game. I read the article and he made some valid criticism that needed to be said. I still love the game and disagree with some points still but it is important for people to know what could be better or there will be no improvement. Going in close minded into anything isn't gonna help you make an informed decision.
More_Badass
Member
But Eurogamer had the audacity to give Uncharted 3 an 8 out of 10. That's 2 points less than 10!
No, but seriously, I totally agree. I can't stand when discussion focuses on the numbers rather than the actual content of a review.
More_Badass
Member
Interesting comment from the thread about Polygon's recent article
This is the original Polygon opinion piece:
'Big indie' Kickstarters are killing actual indies
This is the original Polygon opinion piece:
'Big indie' Kickstarters are killing actual indies
BUNTING1243
Banned
You've changed, scoops
nckillthegrimace
Member
New Kotaku feature: Slandering with Scoops
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
The original Polygon op-ed is pretty bad too, for reasons I discuss here: short version is that virtually everyone takes actions to "subsidize" the final figure that they ask for on KS, from the smallest indie to multi-million dollar projects, and the idea that it's unacceptable for a mid-sized team not to disclose that they have external investment while it is acceptable for a small team to not disclose the fact that they, say, live at home or are willing to work for free or are using their personal savings to top up the budget or that they have worked on their vertical slice for months before launching the KS, is silly. The important thing is not worrying about the psychological effects of your top-line funding amount on conditioning people to consider funding other games (it's unsubstantiated that this occurs even if we accept that most people have no idea what it costs to make a game), it's to make sure you set a goal that is sufficient for you to execute on your vision so that if you are marginally funded you are able to deliver to your backers.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
Thanks for posting this here--I think it deserves more attention for how irresponsible that article is.
RockTurtle
Member
sad times.
its taking the originals' own assumptions and passing them off as almost absolutes
the original article wasn't "pretty good", and the kotaku headline only serves to set in stone what was nothing more than the original polygon article author's debatable concepts of KS privilege
CuckFupertino
Banned
I don't get it. What did Klepek do wrong in that article? Fail to mention the game although he used their photo? If you read the Polygon piece, which is pretty good, they mention Yooka Laylee explicitly.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Again, I disagree that the Polygon OpEd is "pretty good", I think it's a completely daft way to consider KS, especially the section with the napkin math which borders on nonsense.
But the issue here is that Klepek's piece adds nothing (the piece is just an aggregation of links, which I guess is fine) and changes the moderate claim about the impacts of Kickstarter budget distortion to "Some Kickstarters Are Lying about Game Budgets", which he repeats in the text by saying some projects are "outright lying"--before then repeating the article's obviously wrong napkin math. The original piece doesn't describe anyone as lying at all. In fact, it says nothing about the honesty. It's an argument about the impact of a common practice, not impugning the motives of those doing it by calling them liars.
Shrike_Priest
Member
What's wrong with the napkin math? Edit: nm, saw that you made a post about it. reading.
Edit2: done reading. I see what you mean by the whole outsourcing thing. Fair point. However, in terms of the main thesis, I'm not sure those mistakes invalidate it. I think the key part is where their budget was questioned as being too expensive, while in fact it was very conservative. If people assume that the funding goals of established Iga-style campaigns are actual representations of cost, then I have no problem seeing how that would hurt for smaller indies, and reduce the viability of crowdfunding.
I'm not saying Iga & Co need to stop lowballing (hell, his video was one of the first that explicitly stated they'd secured funding and the Kickstarter was just a measure of demand), but I've seen plenty of Kickstarters that have almost itemized budgets/stretch goals. If those are wildly inaccurate, wouldn't more transparency help?
CuckFupertino
Banned
Yeah, okay, that makes sense.
I read your original post, and I tend to agree with most of what you said. I've come to the conclusion that the only "problem" in these two articles was with Klepek's lead. You're absolutely right when you say he twists Chironis' words to make it sound like she's accusing someone of lying, when she is not.
I understand your logical arguments with Chironis' piece and tend to agree with most of them (I don't know anything about game development cost so I have no opinion on the "napkin math"), however I still think it's a pretty good piece.
Obviously Chrionis feels threatened by publisher-backed Kickstarters and has an explicit basis in her piece - hence it is titled an Opinion piece. While her "napkin math" might be off as you say, she still has a perfectly valid argument.
I think your thoughts make a nice op-ed, and should be published as well. Why not get in touch with someone in Polygon's editorial team and see if they'll pay you for freelancing a longer piece?