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Barrage · Apr 30, 2015

Fox318 said:
The advertising the network is the live PPV events. Netflix does high quality original content and spends money on getting top movies and TV shows.

A better comparison would be a sports league with its live events and older matches. While Blackout rules apply none of them give away a month and most of them have an off-season where fan excitement can rise to a peak again when the season begins.

WWE pretty much hasn't missed a week since 93.

I would certainly agree with you that an off-season would help WWE (with December most likely being the best time for it). But that doesn't really have much to do with a free month for new subscribers, which is a common and sensible promotion that wrestling fans act like is the first sign of bankruptcy, or somehow reflects the Network's lack of worth.

slightconfuse · Apr 30, 2015

Network growth. Free months not helping churn(turnover)

Frank Serpico · Apr 30, 2015

There will never be a WWE offseason, way too much money left on the table just to stay "fresh". Live events, merchandise, ad dollars... for even one month just lost would be a huge blow

Sephzilla · Apr 30, 2015

Frank Serpico said:
There will never be a WWE offseason, way too much money left on the table just to stay "fresh". Live events, merchandise, ad dollars... for even one month just lost would be a huge blow

It will never happen, but an offseason is the exact thing WWE needs. It would help the longevity of your talents a ton by giving everyone a time to get away from the grind of the job and recover both mentally and physically. Plus then WWE could avoid the treading water times of their year like we're already in now where feuds drag out for too long because there's nothing else to do but tread water until SummerSlam

Hasney · Apr 30, 2015

slightconfuse said:
Network growth. Free months not helping churn(turnover)

I'll be unsubscribing again once I'm done with the Attitude Raws. No doubt many people will be doing the same.

Not a good time to buy WWE stock, friends.

Sephzilla said:
It will never happen, but an offseason is the exact thing WWE needs. It would help the longevity of your talents a ton by giving everyone a time to get away from the grind of the job and recover both mentally and physically. Plus then WWE could avoid the treading water times of their year like we're already in now where feuds drag out for too long because there's nothing else to do but tread water until SummerSlam

Just give different people different off-seasons. Keep characters fresh while the show keeps rolling.

slightconfuse · Apr 30, 2015

Barrage said:
I would certainly agree with you that an off-season would help WWE (with December most likely being the best time for it). But that doesn't really have much to do with a free month for new subscribers, which is a common and sensible promotion that wrestling fans act like is the first sign of bankruptcy, or somehow reflects the Network's lack of worth.

4 out of the last 7 months have been free. How is that growing subs when you can just wait for a free month.

FlammableD · Apr 30, 2015

I've not even gone for the free months, I can't be arsed to create a new email and account info.

slightconfuse · Apr 30, 2015

Anyone know if you need a credit card for the new month or just an email?

Cagey · Apr 30, 2015

A PPV each month and NXT isn't worth $10/month, not including all of the rest of the random programming on the network?

Frank Serpico · Apr 30, 2015

Sephzilla said:
It will never happen, but an offseason is the exact thing WWE needs. It would help the longevity of your talents a ton by giving everyone a time to get away from the grind of the job and recover both mentally and physically. Plus then WWE could avoid the treading water times of their year like we're already in now where feuds drag out for too long because there's nothing else to do but tread water until SummerSlam

you're saying you don't approve of Cena/Rusev at 4 straight PPVs?

Snowman Prophet of Doom · Apr 30, 2015

WWE doesn't need an offseason, but talent should get at least 2 months where they don't need to work. Put it on a rotation system or something.

slightconfuse · Apr 30, 2015

Cagey said:
A PPV each month and NXT isn't worth $10/month, not including all of the rest of the random programming on the network?

Depends, on how must see it is for people. These B and C shows seem passable.

If you waited a few days you got mania and ER for free.

Fox318 · Apr 30, 2015

Cagey said:
A PPV each month and NXT isn't worth $10/month, not including all of the rest of the random programming on the network?

The value is there, the interesting and compelling main product isn't there

And that comes down to Vince booking 2 or 3 stars and the rest of the roster as dorks.

Plus the man with the biggest recognition and main stream attention isnt there half of the year.

UrbanDandy · Apr 30, 2015

FlammableD said:
Oh yeah, Wall of Shame:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=1020457

My time is coming up.

Frank Serpico · Apr 30, 2015

Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
WWE doesn't need an offseason, but talent should get at least 2 months where they don't need to work. Put it on a rotation system or something.

you have to have roster depth to do that, something the WWE is sorely lacking. When Austin went out for an year in 2000, Triple H and Rock picked up right where he left off and the ball kept rolling, WWE doesn't have that loaded roster anymore and hasn't for years

klonere · Apr 30, 2015

the other thing I noticed when watching those Attitude era Raws (and im sure it has been said before) was that it felt "of a time". Like you could show an episode of 98 Raw to someone and say "this is representative of 90s pop culture". The Raw before No Way Out 98 has an Austin segment end with him giving the birds to the audience and them reciprocating. It's a real cultural artifact, totally in line with Eminem, Rage Against the Machine "angry" sounding music, the anti-hero aesthetic etc etc.

Whereas you show someone a random Raw from nowadays and I dunno. Its just nothing. It feels totally divorced from the things that are informing and shaping modern media, even with the incredibly awkward forced social media etc. I guess now we are kinda dealing with the death and fragmentation of mainstream culture so what would make modern WWE fit in with the now but it sure as fuck isn't what they are doing now.

I mean if they went for a more sports-feel (BIG FIGHT FEEL!!!) as has been banded about, advertisers might care more seeing as sports is the one big growth area for TV.

Sephzilla · Apr 30, 2015

Cagey said:
Just give different people different off-seasons. Keep characters fresh while the show keeps rolling.

I'd rather everyone gets the same off season. It avoids talent possibly complaining about so and so getting a month or two off around the holidays while someone else gets a month or two off during a less desirable time. Plus this way WWE could operate on "seasons" and put out DVD/BluRays based on that cycle and generate another source of income.

Cagey said:
A PPV each month and NXT isn't worth $10/month, not including all of the rest of the random programming on the network?

Not when two thirds of the PPVs are glorified Raw episodes

klonere · Apr 30, 2015

Frank Serpico said:
you have to have roster depth to do that, something the WWE is sorely lacking. When Austin went out for an year in 2000, Triple H and Rock picked up right where he left off and the ball kept rolling, WWE doesn't have that loaded roster anymore and hasn't for years

and that is 100% WWE's fault. Its not a dearth of talent problem. Its the garbage writing and garbage booking.

The only good, interesting matchup and feud that we might get next PPV is probably New Day vs Kiddsaro and even that is a rematch. They are giving Dean vs Seth away on a Smackdown - a feud that should have the gravitas and star making power of Austin vs Hart.

John Fucking Morrison is arguably one of the faces of LU.

Showaddy · Apr 30, 2015

Frank Serpico said:
you have to have roster depth to do that, something the WWE is sorely lacking. When Austin went out for an year in 2000, Triple H and Rock picked up right where he left off and the ball kept rolling, WWE doesn't have that loaded roster anymore and hasn't for years

Between the main roster & NXT they've probably got their largest pool of talent ever, if they didn't book 95% of the roster like idiots they could quite easily rotate the upper and mid card.

Fox318 · Apr 30, 2015

Showaddy said:
Between the main roster & NXT they've probably got their largest pool of talent ever, if they didn't book 95% of the roster like idiots they could quite easily rotate the upper and mid card.

ding ding ding

Ambrose right now is the prefect example.

Dude is over selling merch more than Cena and they buried him to feed somebody who they fed to the undertaker.

KissVibes · Apr 30, 2015

Frank Serpico said:
you have to have roster depth to do that, something the WWE is sorely lacking. When Austin went out for an year in 2000, Triple H and Rock picked up right where he left off and the ball kept rolling, WWE doesn't have that loaded roster anymore and hasn't for years

They absolutely have the bodies. The problem is they don't have bodies with draw power. Which is their fucking fault.

People talk about the attitude era being better because of stupid shit like the rating being higher or blood, and I wonder if that's because people can only point out the glaring differences when looking back on memories and nostalgia.

The attitude era was really better because it had stories all over the card. REAL backstage segments, personality developments, reasons to actually give a damn about characters and wrestlers.

There's no Val Venis trying to protect his dick, no Edge and Christian being goofballs backstage, no X-Pac trying to bring humanity to Kane and getting him to open up. WWE needs that kind of shit desperately. Yeah okay, Val Venis getting threatened with his wiener being cut off by what was basically WWF Yakuza isn't exactly the most mature plot, but it had layers and structure to it. Real ass motivations. As a child I SHED TEARS FOR SLEAZY VAL VENIS' DICK THINKING THEY REALLY CUT IT OFF. THAT THE BAD GUYS WON (Even if Mr. Fuji was kinda justified as Val Venis seduced his Wife).

If WWE took the time to develop the roster and give them storylines and real personality, you could have John Cena take off for two months while the midcard carried the weight, because the Midcard were actual people who were over.

lovely ladies · Apr 30, 2015

Fox318 said:
ding ding ding

Ambrose right now is the prefect example.

Dude is over selling merch more than Cena and they buried him to feed somebody who they fed to the undertaker.

Where did you find that? It seems like a hard feat to accomplish.

Fox318 · Apr 30, 2015

Shark Johnson said:
They absolutely have the bodies. The problem is they don't have bodies with draw power. Which is their fucking fault.

People talk about the attitude era being better because of stupid shit like the rating being higher or blood, and I wonder if that's because people can only point out the glaring differences when looking back on memories and nostalgia.

The attitude era was really better because it had stories all over the card. REAL backstage segments, personality developments, reasons to actually give a damn about characters and wrestlers.

There's no Val Venis trying to protect his dick, no Edge and Christian being goofballs backstage, no X-Pac trying to bring humanity Kane and getting him to Open up. WWE needs that kind of shit desperately.

Val Venis getting threatened with his wiener being cut off by what was basically WWF Yakuza isn't exactly the most mature plot, but it had layers and structure to it. Real ass motivations. As a child I SHED TEARS FOR SLEAZY VAL VENIS' DICK THINKING THEY REALLY CUT IT OFF.

If WWE took the time to develop the roster and give them storylines and real personality, you could have John Cena take off for two months while the midcard carried the weight, because the Midcard were actual people who were over.

You mean you don't feel the same for all of the WWE Superstars who lose their first name when coming to WWE?

Aiii · Apr 30, 2015

I love that the WWE Network has a Mayweather vs. Big Show special on Friday, now that's smart programming. Really smart, well done.

KissVibes · Apr 30, 2015

Fox318 said:
You mean you don't feel the same for all of the WWE Superstars who lose their first name when coming to WWE?

What do you mean?

Jamie OD · Apr 30, 2015

Showaddy said:
Between the main roster & NXT they've probably got their largest pool of talent ever, if they didn't book 95% of the roster like idiots they could quite easily rotate the upper and mid card.

But that's the thing. The crowd is becoming less likely to get behind pushes because WWE constantly botches them, intentional or not. It's why ironic gimmicks like Mizdow and Axelmania get some of the largest reactions. WWE doesn't give us a badass to believe in so we might as well get behind the clowns because at least they entertain us.

Fox318 · Apr 30, 2015

lovely ladies said:
Where did you find that? It seems like a hard feat to accomplish.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/532073-dean-ambrose-leads-black-friday-sales

On Black Friday, WWE recorded its single biggest online sales day ever, drawing a 44% increase in sales on WWEShop.com compared to last years record-setting day. WWE also broke records on Cyber Monday, with sales +32% year-over-year, making it the No 2. best-selling day on WWEShop.com ever.

WWEShop.coms five-day holiday weekend saw sales +39% year-over-year.

WWE Superstar Dean Ambrose Unstable Hoodie Sweatshirt was the hottest seller, and the WWE Monopoly Board Game came in at No. 2.

Mobile traffic was +80% year-over-year and accounted for 61% of overall traffic to WWEShop.com.

If anyone else on the roster had a 3-4 month merch reset they'd be selling more merch too.

Cena also has way more variety than anyone else with the possible exception of Hogan.

Frank Serpico · Apr 30, 2015

Shark Johnson said:
They absolutely have the bodies. The problem is they don't have bodies with draw power.

That's what I meant by them having no depth. When Austin went down Rock was just a big and HHH was a huge heel.

People may not want to admit it but Cena is still the most over guy in wrestling today, always getting the loudest reactions, even got cheered mostly at Chicago which hates him.

WWE makes everyone on the roster a mid card bum with a 50/50 record except for a couple guys

Toki767 · Apr 30, 2015

I stopped subscribing to the Network after Summerslam I think. Haven't really missed it as anything worth seeing is basically played over and over again on Raw. And NXT has kind of felt like a drag lately, although that might be because Lucha Underground is on the same night and it's just way better for the most part.

Fox318 · Apr 30, 2015

Shark Johnson said:
What do you mean?

I don't think having John Cena or Dean Ambrose go up against dudes with 1 name looks good. It makes them look fake.

Neville is the perfect example. You spend all of this time on NXT building a brand and then you just ditch it because a 70 year old man thinks Adrian is a girls name.

Same for somebody like Big E. Sure we remember Kane and Undertaker but those guys were more character then a relateable human being. Plus for adults looking in on it it looks stupid and carny as hell.

lovely ladies · Apr 30, 2015

Fox318 said:
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/532073-dean-ambrose-leads-black-friday-sales

If anyone else on the roster had a 3-4 month merch reset they'd be selling more merch too.

Cena also has way more variety than anyone else with the possible exception of Hogan.

That's only one day, lol. It probably still sells some but I'm sure it's gone down since that date.

All I know is that he needs to get rid of the rebound lariat, that move looks so fucking cheesy.

klonere · Apr 30, 2015

They had Taker go over Wyatt, totally fucking his character, possibly irrecoverably, because they are more concerned with getting one last match out of Taker than a career of matches out of Wyatt.

FlammableD · Apr 30, 2015

As previously reported, the feeling in Lucha Underground is that a second season is a sure thing. According to the Wrestling Observer Newsletter, filming for the new season should begin in August, just after the current season finishes airing.

There are two key deals in current discussions for the company, both involving new TV carriers. The talks are to get the Spanish-language version of the show on Univision in the US, which would be huge for the company, and Televisa in Mexico which would also be big as it would give them stronger exposure than even AAA. Univision is announcing its new season schedule at their upfront presentation on May 12th.

If those two TV deals do not go through, there will likely need to be some serious cutbacks as the show costs a lot. Part of that is due to the location, and there has been discussion of moving to a different local, possibly in Texas. As previously noted, Rey Mysterio and Alberto El Patron are expected to be the top two stars for the promotion.

Frank Serpico · Apr 30, 2015

klonere said:
They had Taker go over Wyatt, totally fucking his character, possibly irrecoverably, because they are more concerned with getting one last match out of Taker than a career of matches out of Wyatt.

Losing to Undertaker at Mania isn't hurting ANYONE, laughable to think being put in a marquee match at Mania and losing to a legend is "totally fucking his character".

The problem is how the WWE books him AFTER the match

Fox318 · Apr 30, 2015

klonere said:
They had Taker go over Wyatt, totally fucking his character, possibly irrecoverably, because they are more concerned with getting one last match out of Taker than a career of matches out of Wyatt.

The Cena loss was worse.

Sephzilla · Apr 30, 2015

The entire point of the Wyatt/Taker thing was built for Wyatt to lose and prove that Taker still has it after losing to Brock

Fox318 · Apr 30, 2015

Frank Serpico said:
Losing to Undertaker at Mania isn't hurting ANYONE, laughable to think being put in a marquee match at Mania and losing to a legend is "totally fucking his character".

The problem is how the WWE books him AFTER the match

Right now its weirdo who rambles in front of a camera because if he does a live promo he is gonna get the what chants so hard people will think its 2001.

Sephzilla said:
The entire point of the Wyatt/Taker thing was built for Wyatt to lose and prove that Taker still has it after losing to Brock

That's good for Mania but for the 11 other months it's killed Wyatt.

MC Safety · Apr 30, 2015

klonere said:
They had Taker go over Wyatt, totally fucking his character, possibly irrecoverably, because they are more concerned with getting one last match out of Taker than a career of matches out of Wyatt.

I'm not sure why losing ruins anyone career. Especially in a "sport" where you may wrestle 300 times a year and lose 150 matches.

Bray Wyatt will have a nice career. He's already done more than anyone could have expected with his gimmick.

lovely ladies · Apr 30, 2015

1381%20-%20jerry_lawler%20laughing%20wwe.png

Frank Serpico · Apr 30, 2015

Fox318 said:
Right now its weirdo who rambles in front of a camera because if he does a live promo he is gonna get the what chants so hard people will think its 2001.

That's good for Mania but for the 11 other months it's killed Wyatt.

Ok, but again, that's the booking not knowing what to do with him, losing to Taker isn't the issue, if anything it actually made Wyatt relevant again for the first time in many months

Rafa=FedKilla · Apr 30, 2015

FlammableD said:
As previously reported, the feeling in Lucha Underground is that a second season is a sure thing. According to the Wrestling Observer Newsletter, filming for the new season should begin in August, just after the current season finishes airing.

There are two key deals in current discussions for the company, both involving new TV carriers. The talks are to get the Spanish-language version of the show on Univision in the US, which would be huge for the company, and Televisa in Mexico which would also be big as it would give them stronger exposure than even AAA. Univision is announcing its new season schedule at their upfront presentation on May 12th.

If those two TV deals do not go through, there will likely need to be some serious cutbacks as the show costs a lot. Part of that is due to the location, and there has been discussion of moving to a different local, possibly in Texas. As previously noted, Rey Mysterio and Alberto El Patron are expected to be the top two stars for the promotion.

Eseehhhh, you can build the company around Johnny Mundo.

Toki767 · Apr 30, 2015

MC Safety said:
I'm not sure why losing ruins anyone career. Especially in a "sport" where you may wrestle 300 times a year and lose 150 matches.

Bray Wyatt will have a nice career. He's already done more than anyone could have expected with his gimmick.

Real main eventers don't have a 50/50 win/loss record.

Heel · Apr 30, 2015

You know what I always tell you, guys: Don't complain until the story lines unfold. We'll see what happens.

Fox318 · Apr 30, 2015

MC Safety said:
I'm not sure why losing ruins anyone career. Especially in a "sport" where you may wrestle 300 times a year and lose 150 matches.

Bray Wyatt will have a nice career. He's already done more than anyone could have expected with his gimmick.

At some point the fans need to have some belief that the ring product matters. Just like with any TV show you need to lose yourself in the product. Lex Luger never won the big one so many times and people just gave up on him. Happened with him vs Flair and him vs Yoko.

Hasney · Apr 30, 2015

Heel, it's time we hang up our football tyres

klonere · Apr 30, 2015

Frank Serpico said:
Losing to Undertaker at Mania isn't hurting ANYONE, laughable to think being put in a marquee match at Mania and losing to a legend is "totally fucking his character".

The problem is how the WWE books him AFTER the match

Bray spent a month+ cutting promos to no-one, burning shit, doing the whole smoke show charade which most people in here would admit not to giving a fuck about because Wyatt without a clear focus doesn't really lend itself to being compelling. He smashed a few jobbers for zero heat. He was the one that eliminated Bryan from the Rumble! Zero heat because there was no, real tangible object of his feud, up until Taker came out at Mania (and yes, we all knew it was Taker but the point stands).

He trumpted being "The New Face of Fear", a nod at taking over the whole "supernatural wrestler" gimmick from Taker, which makes a lot of sense. He talked mad shit about Taker being afraid, not being able to beat Wyatt etc etc. The entire match hinged on the idea that Bray was ascending to take the Undertakers spot. The match itself was entirely underwhelming from my perspective and didn't make a star out of anybody.

As for the after, we have Bray still banging on about being the New Face of Fear and not acknowledging this loss at all. Why the fuck should I give a fuck about a creepy, supernatural cult dude whose pretentious promos (which I love in a vacuum) aren't being backed up with convincing wins over big names.

He's going to feud with fucking Ryback now that isn't going to do shit for anybody.

MC Safety · Apr 30, 2015

Toki767 said:
Real main eventers don't have a 50/50 win/loss record.

Yeah, we don't have to nitpick like that. The point is that a loss in wrestling isn't the kiss of death.

Bray Wyatt will have a nice career.

Heel · Apr 30, 2015

Hasney said:
Heel, it's time we hang up our football tyres

I keep my RC car on the ground where it belongs, Hasney. He can drive on the pitch like a real man and see what happens when he crosses my path.

Chamber · Apr 30, 2015

Bray is stale as fuck. I'd still change the channel whenever he cuts a promo regardless of whether he won or lost to Cena and Taker.

W/L record in a fake sport wouldn't matter if the storytelling was on point.

Frank Serpico · Apr 30, 2015

Chamber said:
W/L record in a fake sport wouldn't matter if the storytelling was on point.

agreed, in wrestling you can lose and still look good, but without a compelling story no one cares

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