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border · May 15, 2015

.....so why didn't they? The dissolution of their relationship has always seemed a bit weird and nonsensical. "Okay, so you guys don't want to make Halo anymore. You are free to go to another publisher and another platform.....but we are going to build a new studio comprised of your former employees and they are going to make Halo games anyway."

Huh? If they were willing to build 343 industries to continue the Halo series, then why not just give Bungie the time and money to make their own new product as an Xbox exclusive? That way you would have 2 AAA shooter pedigrees in your stable.

The first reason that will occur to most people is that Microsoft might not have seen much value in having two competing sci-fi shooters. Except that Microsoft immediately pursued a one-year exclusivity agreement for Destiny that never came to fruition for whatever reason. Except that Microsoft immediately purchased the rights to Gears of War as soon as they could. They are definitely not opposed to adding more sci-fi shooters to their lineup.

The other explanation would be that MS simply didn't have faith in Bungie, wouldn't authorize the budget, or demanded that the game's concepts be incorporated into the Halo-verse. Which seems absolutely crazy to me after more than a decade of successful games from Bungie -- they are one of a few developers I think you can trust to develop a successful new IP. Maybe those early concepts of Destiny as a pseudo-medieval RPG seemed like too much of a departure to gamble on. Maybe if Bungie had pitched the game as being closer to its current incarnation, MS would have let them roll with it. I guess we can't really even know if they ever had the opportunity to look at early Destiny designs though I can't imagine they gave up the right of first refusal on new IPs.

I dunno, perhaps it's all just a symptom of MS's bizarre, competitive dog-eat-dog company structure that is so often cited as a problem of theirs in the mid-2000's. Or the deal that MS got was simply too good to refuse.

James Scott · May 15, 2015

They already have Halo.
Destiny is just bad Halo combined with bad Borderlands.
Don't think it would sell more than Halo if it was Xbox exclusive.
I agree that they should've let Bungie make different stuff if they were at risk of losing them though

RoyalLaFlame · May 15, 2015

They're good guys and let Playstation have its marketing rights. Good guy Microsoft.

Keeping Bungie all to themselves would be selfish.

EDIT: But Destiny wouldn't be as big as it is today if it were an Xbox exclusive. And Halo made more money at that time than a new IP so MS chose the safest route.

iMax · May 15, 2015

border said:
The first reason that will occur to most people is that Microsoft might not have seen much value in having two competing sci-fi shooters. Except that Microsoft immediately pursued a one-year exclusivity agreement for Destiny that never came to fruition for whatever reason. Except that Microsoft immediately purchased the rights to Gears of War as soon as they could. They are definitely not opposed to adding more sci-fi shooters to their lineup.

Couple things. That agreement was only pursued because it's a multi-platform game, and games sell hardware. Same reason they did it for Call of Duty. Second, Gears of War isn't really comparable to Halo or Destiny. Totally different style.

NZNova · May 15, 2015

Destiny might not have been the "biggest new IP of this gen" as you put it if it was restricted to Microsoft platforms.

Bornstellar · May 15, 2015

NZNova said:
Destiny might not have been the "biggest new IP of this gen" as you put it if it was restricted to Microsoft platforms.

.

Karak · May 15, 2015

That is not how game development works.

BeforeU · May 15, 2015

If Destiny was exclusive to 1 platform, it would have received SO MUCH more hate than it already has for being a shit game and also it wouldn't have been biggest new IP.

npa189 · May 15, 2015

James Scott said:
They already have Halo.
Destiny is just bad Halo combined with bad Borderlands.
Don't think it would sell more than Halo if it was Xbox exclusive.
I agree that they should've let Bungie make different stuff if they were at risk of losing them though

Sums up the game for me.

The MS/Bungie split has always seemed weird to me. Microsoft had a golden goose at the end of Halo 3 and they let it go just because they were getting tired of Halo? I'm sure there is way more to it than that, but I want to know how Bungie was able to become independent again. Halo is the franchise that built Xbox no question, but it would have made more sense for Microsoft to give Bungie some creative leeway, and make 343i to keep Halo going.

Suzushiiro · May 15, 2015

The most likely answer is that Bungie wanted to get away from Microsoft for reasons other than Microsoft not wanting them to make anything other than Halo. Maybe they just decided that they liked being independent more than they liked being owned by MS?

ArkhamFantasy · May 15, 2015

Destiny would sell alot less as an Xbox exclusive and it would hurt Halo sales. Also judging from Destiny's quality Bungie might not be as good of a dev as we thought.

Hatchtag · May 15, 2015

Pudge said:
I bet Microsoft would have let them finish and put out a full game instead of splitting it into a bunch of "Comet" DLC packs.

I see you haven't played Halo MCC.

GoldChain · May 15, 2015

James Scott said:
They already have Halo.
Destiny is just bad Halo combined with bad Borderlands.
Don't think it would sell more than Halo if it was Xbox exclusive.
I agree that they should've let Bungie make different stuff if they were at risk of losing them though

Wow, opinions - not facts.

Considering the game has 16 million players averaging 3 hours a day, I'd say thats a pretty big IP.

Gamer @ Heart · May 15, 2015

Bungie wanted the money that would come from owning an mmo-like game that they would build on and sell for years

Being another card in a corporation's hand wasn't the way to achieve that level if revenue.

Rather than own a shell of a company if all the talent left, who didn't have contracts to stay, they sold the company back to them for profit and kept halo. It was win win for them

border · May 15, 2015

iMax said:
Couple things. That agreement was only pursued because it's a multi-platform game, and games sell hardware. Same reason they did it for Call of Duty. Second, Gears of War isn't really comparable to Halo or Destiny. Totally different style.

Microsoft never bought a 1-year timed exclusive for Call of Duty though.

Destiny, particularly as it was originally pitched, was pretty different than Halo. At least as different as GoW.

James Scott · May 15, 2015

ArkhamFantasy said:
Destiny would sell alot less as an Xbox exclusive and it would hurt Halo sales. Also judging from Destiny's quality Bungie might not be as good of a dev as we thought.

It's probably a combination of a lot of people leaving Bungie for 343i (but not enough to make them as good as old bungie), having to stay on a schedule, and having to make a game for 5 platforms. Wouldn't say Bungie is an bad dev, even if I didn't like Destiny.

Pudge · May 15, 2015

Hatchtag said:
I see you haven't played Halo MCC.

What? Halo MCC is four games running on five different engines. It was a herculean task to even get the thing running in the first place. They should have got in front of it more(and realistically delayed it a bit), but they did fix it.

And even at launch, Halo MCC had four full campaigns, Destiny barely has one.

Doffen · May 15, 2015

Hatchtag said:
I see you haven't played Halo MCC.

Halo MCC got the content, but not the polish.

xehanort · May 15, 2015

If Destiny was exclusive, Watch dogs would be the biggest new IP right?

iMax · May 15, 2015

border said:
Microsoft never bought a 1-year timed exclusive for Call of Duty though.

Destiny, particularly as it was originally pitched, was pretty different than Halo. At least as different as GoW.

No, they bought a seven-year one. The only reason those agreements exist is to restrict distribution and encourage hardware adoption.

And I think you could make the argument that Destiny under a console-maker rather than a publisher might've received better support and ultimately, the game might've been fuller than it currently is, and closer to its original vision. Its original vision would've been a fine staple of Microsoft's portfolio. In its current state, however... not so much.

TomShoe · May 15, 2015

Destiny is too similar to Halo, I doubt Microsoft would have approved the budget. Same reason Stig's IP at SSM was cancelled, it was already too similar to Destiny, an already established IP.

Iced Arcade · May 15, 2015

I don't think it was entirely Bungie who wanted to leave, I think MS probably thought they grew stale and didn't care to keep the expense of the studio.

border · May 15, 2015

Even if they had bought out the 1-year exclusive on Destiny that would have been a huge coup for Microsoft. All those people who started playing on 360 would have had little choice but to buy an Xbox One if they didn't want to abandon their characters.

I'm equally as curious about why the 1-year exclusive fell through. I presume Activision probably jsut asked for too much money or something.

JuanLatino · May 15, 2015

If Titanfall wouldn't been exclusive...Would it have bigger sales than Destiny considering the hype it got

Lingitiz · May 15, 2015

SKY EYES said:
I don't think it was entirely Bungie who wanted to leave, I think MS probably thought they grew stale and didn't care to keep the expense of the studio.

Part of the dilemma when Bungie was getting done with Halo is that MS needs someone to keep making that franchise. Letting Bungie go independent in exchange for ownership of the franchise was probably an easy choice to make when faced with that, especially when they had outright said they were burnt out on the series and wanted to do something else and expand to multiple platforms.

IvorB · May 15, 2015

You make it sound like this was all on MS to decide. Maybe Bungie just wanted to leave.

veloxStrix · May 15, 2015

James Scott said:
They already have Halo.
Destiny is just bad Halo combined with bad Borderlands.

Halo is bad Halo at this point.

I don't know if MS kicked Bungie out. They had the ambition to be an independent studio for a while, alot of the older weekly updates, dev diaries, and whatever that thing was called that was like a Weekly Update but not suggested that they were fairly burnt out on Halo games. I'm not sure why they signed on with Activision.

Also, making threads involving Destiny is just an invitation for the GAF circle jerk of "Destiny is bad, what a trash game, no one plays it anymore and if they do they are brainwashed". Literally every thread about Destiny since it launched.

Gxgear · May 15, 2015

I thought Bungie wanted out.

Hatchtag · May 15, 2015

JuanLatino said:
If Titanfall wouldn't been exclusive...Would it have bigger sales than Destiny considering the hype it got

Tough to say because it being exclusive was the only way the game was gonna be made, iirc. But if it was put on all platforms and managed to keep its quality across them, I think it'd easily be in the top 3 along with Watch Dogs.

FyreWulff · May 15, 2015

border said:
.....so why didn't they? The dissolution of their relationship has always seemed a bit weird and nonsensical.

It actually made perfect sense as to why they split up. Bungie separated the day Halo 3 released, almost 10 years ago now by the way. The machinations almost predate the 360, let alone Destiny.

People like to insert a shit ton of assumptions and blind ploys as to why it happened, which are mostly very wrong, and attempting to boil something as involved as separating two companies from each other will never be condensed into a single explanatory statement.

CLEEK · May 15, 2015

You're making the assumption that the decision was Microsoft's alone to make. There were two parties involved. Bungie and Microsoft. If the relationship between them had deteriorated (and all signs point to this being the case), then Bungie most likely didn't want to continue reporting to MS and went their own way.

Omotesando · May 15, 2015

Poodlestrike said:
Destiny's pretty awful, though.

Plus, bit early to call it the "biggest new IP of the gen," isn't it?

It is what it is, till something comes along to dethrone it, it will remain what it is.

Courage · May 15, 2015

Microsoft wouldn't have spent as much money on marketing as Activision.

Shrennin · May 15, 2015

SPE said:
You're making the assumption that the decision was Microsoft's alone to make. There were two parties involved. Bungie and Microsoft. If the relationship between them had deteriorated (and all signs point to this being the case), then Bungie most likely didn't want to continue reporting to MS and went their own way.

To be fair, Microsoft didn't have to let Bungie go, since Microsoft owned the studio. Of course, that would also likely mean that most of the talent would have left the studio and Microsoft would have just been left with a shell of one. It's interesting to see that a lot of core Bungie people are still with/have come back to Microsoft though.

After playing Destiny though, I definitely feel like Destiny would have been in better hands with Microsoft. Regardless, it is what it is. Hopefully Destiny can become the great IP it claimed to be.

Omotesando · May 15, 2015

MS basically don't have the business sass like Bobby Kotick.

History proves it.

ChrisMahoney · May 15, 2015

Bungie wanted to be independent. There was nothing Microsoft could do, other than throw too much money at them.

Prine · May 15, 2015

But Halo was never any good though...?

1/10

veloxStrix said:
Halo is bad Halo at this point.

What ever it is, its superior to that pos Destiny. MS made the right choice

Apoleptica · May 15, 2015

Destiny over-promised and under-delivered. It did sell a ton, but I doubt it will do so again with its sequel. I and many others have learned their lesson.

veloxStrix · May 15, 2015

iMax said:

To clarify, Halo 4 was awful; MCC was broken and still is to an extent; the hope for Halo as a series is still fairly low even after the Halo 5 Beta.

Reluctant-Hero · May 15, 2015

veloxStrix said:
Halo is bad Halo at this point.

Ding, ding! You hit the nail on the head. People ragging on Destiny need to take a good hard look at Halo 4 compared Bungie's Halo games.

Renekton · May 15, 2015

ChrisMahoney said:
Bungie wanted to be independent. There was nothing Microsoft could do, other than throw too much money at them.

Bungie wanted to make Destiny, MS wanted more Halo.

A hypothetical X1-only Destiny might not be as butchered as current multiplatform version we have now.

iMax · May 15, 2015

veloxStrix said:
To clarify, Halo 4 was awful; MCC was broken and still is to an extent; the hope for Halo as a series is still fairly low even after the Halo 5 Beta.

Halo 4 was the best Halo. Sorry if you don't feel the same way.

And MCC was broken but is pretty good now.

Shrennin · May 15, 2015

Reluctant-Hero said:
Ding, ding! You hit the nail on the head. People ragging on Destiny need to take a good hard look at Halo 4 compared Bungie's Halo games.

Halo 4 just seemed to be bringing Halo to the next logical step from Reach. I think Halo 5 will be the real test for 343 (as a Halo studio) now that they have developed one Halo game, and now they know what fans liked/didn't like about it. I personally liked Halo 4, but I'm glad to see 343 trying to make Halo 5 more like classic Halo (while still trying to keep Halo somewhat modern).

shandy706 · May 15, 2015

veloxStrix said:
To clarify, Halo 4 was awful; MCC was broken and still is to an extent; the hope for Halo as a series is still fairly low even after the Halo 5 Beta.

Did you play Halo 4 for more than a few days? Did you even touch single player?

If you played 4, had you played 3 to come to a conclusion?

Just curious?

I've had no trouble playing single player MCC.

Doffen · May 15, 2015

Reluctant-Hero said:
Ding, ding! You hit the nail on the head. People ragging on Destiny need to take a good hard look at Halo 4 compared Bungie's Halo games.

No need to take a hard look when I've actually played both and I enjoyed my time with Halo 4 more than Destiny.

Omotesando · May 15, 2015

Apoleptica said:
Destiny over-promised and under-delivered. It did sell a ton, but I doubt it will do so again with its sequel. I and many others have learned their lesson.

People keep saying this since oktober last year. Destiny keep proving the exact opposite 7 months later.

I wouldn't be surprised the game keeps bringing in more, especially when they bundle the game with new DLC content.

Anticol · May 15, 2015

James Scott said:
They already have Halo.
Destiny is just bad Halo combined with bad Borderlands.
Don't think it would sell more than Halo if it was Xbox exclusive.
I agree that they should've let Bungie make different stuff if they were at risk of losing them though

343's Halo is a bad Halo.

border · May 15, 2015

IvorB said:
You make it sound like this was all on MS to decide. Maybe Bungie just wanted to leave.

SPE said:
You're making the assumption that the decision was Microsoft's alone to make. There were two parties involved. Bungie and Microsoft. If the relationship between them had deteriorated (and all signs point to this being the case), then Bungie most likely didn't want to continue reporting to MS and went their own way.

Already addressed in the OP. One of the conditions of Bungie's departure was almost certainly that Microsoft had right of first refusal on any future projects. Microsoft did that for Gears of War, even when Epic owned the IP.

You guys forget that Bungie was in pretty much no position to bargain. MS could have just shut down the whole studio if they so wanted, since Bungie was a wholly owned subsidiary. "Maybe Bungie just wanted to leave" doesn't make any sense. I mean yeah they clearly wanted to leave, but what they had to do for MS in order to be let go is certainly worth wondering.

Odah · May 15, 2015

Anticol said:
343's Halo is a bad Halo.

Well Bungie didn't wanna make Halo anymore. If you want more Halo you will have to go with 343i , if not you can still play the old titles over and over and over and over and over

Doffen · May 15, 2015

Omotesando said:
I wouldn't be surprised the game keeps bringing in more, especially when they bundle the game with new DLC content.

As long as it's available it will bring in more players. That dosen't mean that the active player base will grow or that the sequel will outsell it.

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