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toythatkills
(05-27-2015, 04:52 PM)
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Tomorrow night at 8pm, Watchdog will be featuring a segment on Sony's frankly horrifying terms and conditions relating to digital purchases.

The issue is "no refunds." Now, SCEE aren't the only digital service which insists there are no refunds when you make a purchase, but they're the only service which has basically a zero-tolerance approach, "no refunds" means "no refunds" regardless of the circumstances. Microsoft, Nintendo, Apple and Valve would all refund in extreme situations, but Sony do not, and this situation is somewhat extreme.

>>>

A purchase was made using someone's PSN account. It wasn't made by the person who owns that account however, and indeed, wasn't even made on a console which that person owns, but it debited the account holder's credit card.

Sony acknowledge this to be true, but state that due to their terms and conditions there can be no refunds on digital purchases.

They literally tell him that they know he didn't make the purchase, they're (likely) banning the console responsible, but they're not going to give him a refund anyway because their T&Cs state "no refunds." They're sorry that someone stole his money and handed it to Sony, but it's Sony's money now.

Understandably confused, the account holder phones Sony. This phone call can be listened to here. It's nearly 20 minutes long but some of it is amazing, like around half-way through when the agent on the phone basically admits that Sony's policy is just to treat all their customers as thieves because most of them are probably trying to cheat the system. Generally though, the agent just sounds embarassed that he has to defend Sony when they so obviously are in the wrong. There's nothing he can do, though, nowhere it can be escalated, "no refunds." Terms and conditions.

And then it's just dead end after dead end. Nobody at Sony veering from their policy of "no refunds" even though the account holder has literally had his money stolen. No one at Sony is any help at all and eventually they basically tell him to fuck off.

Honestly, it's just, how can this even be allowed to happen? He's a victim of a crime, and Sony just happily treat him like a criminal.

>>>

That's the briefest summary. You can read for yourself how the story developed over the course of the last six months on rllmuk where the victim here is a member.

I believe there are other similar stories being featured within the same segment, because there are probably thousands of other tales of woe. It could happen to literally any of us and we'll all suffer the same fate as above.

So yeah, Watchdog tomorrow night or for a month afterwards on iPlayer. Should be worth a watch, especially if they managed to find a higher-up at Sony to comment on it because I'm strugging to think of any possible justification for the way this guy was treated so it'll be great to see how they defend it. I'm sure I'll hear some justification before long though, come on GAF, tell us why it's all his own fault!

People in the UK should be able to watch it here after it's aired: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05xctwd
Last edited by toythatkills; 05-27-2015 at 05:58 PM.
DeweyChat
Banned
(05-27-2015, 04:57 PM)
He needs at least a Facebook page for this injustice.

He has a place between war in Syria and Nepal earthquake.
jiggles
Member
(05-27-2015, 04:58 PM)
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Relevant: I've just put in a refund request with SCEE citing the new Consumer Rights Act, so I'm curious as to whether they give one to me but not to someone that's been a victim of account theft.
Miles Quaritch
lemme stick dat Red Ring
(05-27-2015, 04:58 PM)
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That's pretty shitty of Sony. If they know he didn't make the purchases, there's literally no reason to not refund the guy other than pure greed and a complete lack of care or respect for the end consumer.

Pretty scummy.
Impeccable
Member
(05-27-2015, 04:58 PM)
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Again? They sure are watching the dog.
Voysa Reezun
Banned
(05-27-2015, 05:00 PM)

Originally Posted by DeweyChat

He needs at least a Facebook page for this injustice.

He has a place between war in Syria and Nepal earthquake.

Ah, but the argument is not about how important this is on a world scale; it is about Sony's draconian ToS and refund policy.

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/i...oidingtheIssue
zedge
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:02 PM)
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If this was MS we would have 200 page thread already. :/

Pretty shitty either way.
Vamphuntr
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:02 PM)
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Poor customer, Sony knows he did not make the purchase but they won't refund him. They are beginning to be really shady. I bought a year of PS+ instore and when the subscription expired they charged my CC for another year without my authorization. I didn't know that buying something instore gave them the right to charge my CC a year later for it. Pretty sure it was illegal here too according to QC customers protection law so I complained on their chat thing and they gave me funny wallet money as a refund. Better than nothing I guess.
Steel
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:03 PM)
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Scary. Oddly enough I've heard of people getting digital refunds for less, though.

Actually had a similar situation where my account was stolen and my PS4 remotely deactivated myself, fortunately they didn't make a purchase, but the time I had with multiple sony customer support guys telling me they couldn't remotely deactivate my account for 6 months(allowing the person who stole my account get off scot free for that period of time) was amazing. Had to get tossed around for quite a bit before I ran into someone who took pitty on my situation.

It really all depends on who's on the phone with you.
Brutuspedia
Junior Member
(05-27-2015, 05:03 PM)
I had a refund for MKX because of the online region-lock, bought it on US PSN, had to buy again in AU to play it online.

there was another refund, I can't remember now, but I tried two times, and it worked just fine.
Veritigo_X
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:03 PM)
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I think it depends on the rep you ask since I've gotten refunds before so there's obviously something in place to do so.

Shitty situation in the OP though. Sony and MS need to go the Google route and let you refund within a couple hours no questions asked.
Impeccable
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by zedge

If this was MS we would have 200 page thread already. :/

Pretty shitty either way.

Easily 6400 pages.
Proteus
BOSS
(05-27-2015, 05:03 PM)
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Sony gave me a full refund a few weeks ago when a PS+ discount on a game didn't go through.

They will do it under circumstances but they can be dicks about it.
gruenel
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:05 PM)
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Glad this is getting publicity, Sony's digital policies are really shitty.

Originally Posted by zedge

If this was MS we would have 200 page thread already. :/

Pretty shitty either way.

After 10 minutes, sure, but keep up the victim complex.
Omni
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:06 PM)
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#4thegamers

Really shitty.
BibiMaghoo
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:06 PM)
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They do give refunds, just at their discretion. They do not refund everyone that calls them up with a story. I would imagine in this case they should just have spoken to someone else, escalated, explained again, whatever.

It's not cool at all, but they can and do give refunds.
Newtype-001
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:06 PM)
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Really shitty thing. they have to change that.

Also

Originally Posted by zedge

If this was MS we would have 200 page thread already. :/

Pretty shitty either way.

lol?
EightBitNate
Banned
(05-27-2015, 05:06 PM)
That sounds extremely shitty. Hope my account doesn't get hacked one day.

I was refunded once because I forgot my auto renewal for PS+ was on and asked for a refund. Didn't take too long.
USC-fan
Banned
(05-27-2015, 05:06 PM)
Is this eu only? I gotten a refund on psn when brought the wrong version.
Pharaoh 117
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:07 PM)
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Well, the "no refunds means no refunds" ins't 100% accurate because I got one for DriveClub.
maltrain
Junior Member
(05-27-2015, 05:08 PM)
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I can say Sony not once, but THREE TIMES made me a full refund.

One for a DLC for Fallout: New Vegas that didn't worked for my version of the game.

Two for a charge from EA regarding to a FIFA game.

Three for Life is Strange, I can't remember what was the exact problem, but something about the first episode and the season pass.

No problems with them at all... at the contrary.
Rox598
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:08 PM)
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Should also ask about the shocking prices of said content too.
Percy
Banned
(05-27-2015, 05:08 PM)
Damn... and after Sony had that marketing deal with these guys too.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
(05-27-2015, 05:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by zedge

If this was MS we would have 200 page thread already. :/

Pretty shitty either way.



Tweet Shu?
Stop It
Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
(05-27-2015, 05:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by BibiMaghoo

They do give refunds, just at their discretion. They do not refund everyone that calls them up with a story. I would imagine in this case they should just have spoken to someone else, escalated, explained again, whatever.

It's not cool at all, but they can and do give refunds.

That doesn't make Sony look any better in this light.

If the guy was a victim of fraud, refund him, simple. I imagine once it goes on Watchdog it'll be sorted as frankly every company going hates to be called out on it.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
(05-27-2015, 05:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rox598

Should also ask about the shocking prices of said content too.

This is something people really need to start making a lot of noise about. I have no idea how they get away with such attrocious pricing on PSN.
ANDS
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:10 PM)
I got a refund for Dark Souls II last year on the PS3; they were able to see that I hadn't gotten an achievement on it and were able to revoke the license.
Veritigo_X
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by zedge

If this was MS we would have 200 page thread already. :/

Pretty shitty either way.

Poor MS :( when will people leave them alone :(
zedge
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:10 PM)
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:lol. You guys know it's true. Sony can do no wrong. ;)
CHC
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:10 PM)
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Honestly I once accidentally bought a game that was going to be free on PS Plus a couple days before it updated. I called and explained the situation and they gave a refund without any issue.
jackissocool
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:10 PM)
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I've gotten a couple of refunds before. Once I accidentally bought two digital copies of Killzone Mercenary and they refunded to my card. Recently I bought the PS3 season pass for Life is Strange instead of PS4 and they put the money back in my wallet so I could but the right version. Both times they gave me the "no refunds" line but buckled pretty quickly.
benny_a
extra source of jiggaflops
(05-27-2015, 05:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stop It

That doesn't make Sony look any better in this light.

If the guy was a victim of fraud, refund him, simple. I imagine once it goes on Watchdog it'll be sorted as frankly every company going hates to be called out on it.

Even if he wasn't the victim of fraud the "no refunds" policy is mega bullshit.

I also have gotten refunds before, but it still sucks that it's "at their discretion" while they can always, depending on the mood, point to their shitty Terms of Service.
dancrane212
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:11 PM)
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Maybe I just got lucky but I was able to get a refund on a digital purchase when it went on sale for a significant amount 12 hours after my transaction. Maybe it was because I mentioned I had just bought a Vita so the CS rep took pity on me...
woodypop
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by toythatkills

A purchase was made using someone's PSN account. It wasn't made by the person who owns that account however, and indeed, wasn't even made on a console which that person owns.

Sony acknowledge this to be true, but state that due to their terms and conditions there can be no refunds on digital purchases.

That part kills me. Sony set the terms and conditions. And they're saying they don't have the power to alter them? Please. *eyeroll*
Lothars
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:12 PM)
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I've gotten refunds from Sony when calling and requesting.

It may be just depending on the rep.
Circinus
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:12 PM)
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Poor guy.

Epitome of shitty customer service.


Also, ironic that SCEE's slogan is "#4ThePlayers"..
Primethius
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:12 PM)
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Not defending Sony but I'm pretty sure they do give refunds basrdbon circumstances. Me and a whole bunch of people got Driveclub refunded a couple of weeks after release when that whole fiasco went down. For me, the rep did it I'm about 5 minutes and the money was back in my wallet.
toythatkills
(05-27-2015, 05:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by CHC

Honestly I once accidentally bought a game that was going to be free on PS Plus a couple days before it updated. I called and explained the situation and they gave a refund without any issue.

Okay, everyone's getting refunds and Sony are wonderful.

Except, if Sony so willingly refund people so easily, doesn't it make it even worse that the story in the OP happened? I mean, I'm sure people get refunds now and then but how can they possibly justify not refunding for that?
SgtCobra
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by zedge

If this was MS we would have 200 page thread already. :/

Pretty shitty either way.

Originally Posted by zedge

:lol. You guys know it's true. Sony can do no wrong. ;)

There's some serious persecution complex going on with your posts.
BlackBuzzard
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by zedge

If this was MS we would have 200 page thread already. :/

Pretty shitty either way.


#Sonygaf

/s
OCD Guy
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:14 PM)
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The only solution is to not leave payment details attached to your psn. I only add credit when I'm purchasing a game.

With a digital future refund policies will eventually change, it's a good thing that things like this get put into the spotlight.
biglittleps
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by CHC

Honestly I once accidentally bought a game that was going to be free on PS Plus a couple days before it updated. I called and explained the situation and they gave a refund without any issue.

I think it depends on the person who handles the complaint.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:14 PM)
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Absolutely shit "policy".

My friend discovered someone had gotten ahold of his PSN info and made their PS4 "his" primary system. So now his son can't play their digital games without being logged in as him. He called up support and they told him they couldnt do anything, as you're only allowed to change your primary system every 6 months. They pretty much told him it was probably his fault for either having a weak password or email security.

Fuck the digital future when you can't trust the companies to operate on some level of common sense instead of just treating all customers as scammers and thieves.
Last edited by Hero_of_the_Day; 05-27-2015 at 05:16 PM.
Circinus
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:14 PM)
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Good that stories like these get exposed by Watchdog.


Hopefully SCE's customer service's terms will improve one day.
Last edited by Circinus; 05-27-2015 at 05:19 PM.
Veritigo_X
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by toythatkills

Okay, everyone's getting refunds and Sony are wonderful.

Except, if Sony so willingly refund people so easily, doesn't it make it even worse that the story in the OP happened?

It does. Refunds shouldn't depend on whatever mood the rep you're talking to is in. They don't seem to have a clear cut policy that everyone follows. Hopefully this feature will make them change.
ps3ud0
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:15 PM)
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Good, companies should be held publicly accountable for shitty policies and decisions. Ive had some dealings with Sony and yeah their customer service is average at best.

Scares me if I had any such account issues or fraud how they would deal with it...

ps3ud0 8)
Fortinbras
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pharaoh 117

Well, the "no refunds means no refunds" ins't 100% accurate because I got one for DriveClub.

How did you do that? I also requested a refund for Driveclub back in October but no chance.

Meanwhile I've received two refunds from Microsoft for Destiny Digital Guardian Edition and the Witcher 3 plus Expansion Pass bundle.
gaming_noob
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:15 PM)
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Microsoft should make a short video of Klobb getting a refund from Spencer at e3
Akiyama_AE
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:15 PM)
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I've gotten a refund on digital GTA V on PS3 because I managed to get a disc earlier.
zedge
Member
(05-27-2015, 05:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by SgtCobra

There's some serious persecution complex going on with your posts.

Nah I don't value my self worth on what console sells better or has more pixels like many here do. It is obvious which company gets more shit though on Gaf.

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