This is some ass-backwards "Don't start nothin, won't be nothin" logic. Drawing cartoons is not the act that is disturbing the peace. The small percentage minority radical Islams that kill over the cartoons is what is disturbing the peace. Deciding that the correct action to take to this is to treat drawing those cartoons as an act that is disturbing the peace is literally what terrorists want.
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Armed group planning a "Draw Muhammad" contest outside Mosque
- Thread starter RiZ III
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You're the oblivious one if you think additional guns prevent a potential shooting.
This does nothing but further escalate the situation with obvious intentions behind it.
m_shortpants
Member
Which massacre?
m_shortpants
Member
You mentioned a massacre? As far as I know, the only people killed were the moronic attackers. Unfortunately they got the reaction they were probably going for by those two idiots.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
So if all the muslims walked out of the mosque with weapons and body armor as well and stood face to face against the bikers that would be ok? Might as well get the word out then, fellow muslims arm yourselves as well and draw naked fat bikers with small penises, hell draw red necks. Lets have them wear shirts that say "fuck Christianity" as well, why not burn a bible and flag while you are at it right infront of them its free speech and if they get antagonised then the muslims can be fearful and self defend
I don't consider anyone carrying a deadly weapon on their person out of paranoia to be "100% peaceful" and would avoid them if possible.
m_shortpants
Member
So would you be fine with the entire mosque standing outside with an equal amount of guns and body armor to be an appropriate response?
Well that's the thing, being peaceful isn't really something that needs subjective approval. It's pretty much a fact that somebody armed who is causing no harm and is intending to cause no harm is peaceful. Doesn't really matter if you have your own paranoia about his alleged paranoia.
jediyoshi
Member
I mean, do these armed peaceful protesters not realize that plenty of Muslims are 100% peaceful?
Ape Gone Insane
Member
Given the guy is a former marine, I wonder what would happen if the muzzies also stood outside and drew pictures of dead soldiers. Would they still keep to the 2nd amendment?
If they don't intend to cause harm, why are they armed?
Get a police escort and you can draw all you want. I assume there's going to be a significant police presence at the mosque as well.
This question would make sense only if the reason they were arming themselves was because they thought all Muslims would attack them. They are arming themselves because there is empirical evidence that these protests can be attacked by terrorists. And there is also empirical evidence that being armed saved people from being killed.
You seriously cannot comprehend why somebody who knows he is doing something that could very well draw the ire of terrorists would not want to personally arm themselves if they are legally allowed to do so? Is this serious?
Link
The Autumn Wind
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
maybe the muslims should arm themselves as well just to be sure they arent attacked by terrorists as well.
jediyoshi
Member
Only if all Muslims attacked them? So your previous point only made sense in the context that your interpretation was that everyone bringing a gun wasn't going to be peaceful?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/03/us/mohammed-drawing-contest-shooting/
That doesn't really make sense. My whole point is that the point I was responding to was a total non-sequitur and would only make sense in the context I gave.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Your attempt to paint Islam as the darling of the US that everyone loves so much they're willing to bend over for it is laughable.
Even more laughable when you use to justify people doing deliberately provocative stuff like this.
I know you hate Islam to the very being of your core, but even I am surprised that it clouded your judgment so much it prods you to say "well, it's ok" to even stuff like this.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Not to interrupt the debate, but you cannot be serious...that's your empirical evidence?
Drawing cartoons and being legally armed is not and should not be considered "provocative". The very fact that it is provocative is the reason behind the protest.
Yes. It is literally empirical evidence. What is the problem?
Link
The Autumn Wind
Yes it is, because if there's one party I trust less to discern what an actual threat is and to handle their guns responsibly than US cops, it's the racist rednecks this protest will consist of.
Police were on sight and armed. You just asked how being armed would be a benefit. Do you think only police officers should be armed and have the right to defend themselves from gunfire and be allowed to fire back in self defense? What is this silly "doesn't count, it was a cop that shot them" argument?
I guess that's something we won't agree on. I'd rather not assume any southern person armed is some racist redneck untrustworthy to handle a gun.
so protesting armed is only ok for religious people that want non religious people to die or assholes protesting on a funreal for soldiers.
Why again is it only ok for everyone else?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
.......fuck.
I just.....
Do you honestly, really honestly, 100% honestly, say that they're doing this not with the intention to deliberately antagonize and provoke others? Complete with guns to cause intimidation? Are you ok with this?
I see you are a very, very big fan of two wrongs make it right.
And "is only ok"? Who said that? The imaginary Ruler of All World That Gets to Decide All Things Proper and Allowed?
Please show me protests of Muslims on US soil armed and wishing death on the infidels. Please.
Yes. Why should I assume they have the intentions you just claimed? Where is the evidence?
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
So how do you think the news would spin it if muslims showed up to a church or synagogue armed and with body armour, decided to burn holy books or draw pictures as well, what do you think the response would be? You think people would support it or frown upon it, now what if muslims came out of the mosque armed and started doing that stuff infront of the bikers, how would you view that?
I don't do that either. I just assume that of people pathetic enough to wear shirts with "Fuck Islam" on them or those willing to follow them.
jediyoshi
Member
So only in the context of something no one is actually claiming? What was the point of the post other than setting up a strawman?
Why are you asking me to answer the reaction of millions of people? I don't care what their reaction is. I'm not telling you what people will think. I'm telling you what I think is right. I personally wouldn't care if an armed Muslim burned a bible or whatever near a church as long as he is peaceful.
Considering this event is a very thinly-veiled attempt at inciting hate and violence, I think it's pretty obvious why they want to be armed, and I'll give you a hint: it's not because they're afraid of terrorists who want to stop their "peaceful protest".
Wait you think this is the only demonstration that deliberatley provokes others ? if you want to stop every demo because of antagonize or provoke you really have a huge task ahead lol
For example we have radical islamists on the streets of german screaming "gas the jews" in front of the police... this is provokative and it was still allowed so i really dont see a difference.
Is it really suprising for you that they arm themselfs if there is a good change they can get killed for it?
Let's get to the root of this. You said this:
Originally Posted by jediyoshi
I mean, do these armed peaceful protesters not realize that plenty of Muslims are 100% peaceful?
What is post even saying? Of course these protesters know plenty of Muslims are peaceful. But how does that matter in any way at all? Is being armed only justified if it is not the case that peaceful Muslims exist? No? So why even say that? What is the point? Most Muslims are peaceful. Some aren't. It only takes radicalist to do what other radicalists have done in these situations. Therefore, they choose to arm themselves.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
The fact that the dude openly wear shirts with statements like FUCK ISLAM and intentionally, deliberately invite others to carry guns to this event of theirs? I can't see how anyone can even fail to see this is intended to provoke, intimidate, and harass the people of the mosque, which by the way, what has the people of the mosque ever done to them that makes them legitimate target for stuff like this?
So yes, you really are a big fan of two wrongs make it right philosophy.
Fuck it, I am done. You should join them at this event.. I bet you can find many potential lifelong steadfast friends there. And don't forget to carry guns. Loads of them.
You emphasize "carry guns" like its some Boogyman phrase that should shock me or something. Yes, he invited people to arm themselves, which is perfectly legal and reasonable to do if you fear an attacker may try to distrupt the protest, which happens. And wearing a shirt like that doesn't mean you're looking to incite a murderous riot.
m_shortpants
Member
We are not talking about Germany, or Europe. We are talking about the US.
I asked you in an earlier post to show me where in the US Muslims are protesting to "kill everyone", as per you words, and you conveniently didn't respond.
Meaning?
Publicly drawing a cartoon of Muhammad is undoubtedly a risky move. Anyone who denies this hasn't been paying attention to the numerous attacks made on the cartoonists who took the risk, some of whose lives are in perpetual danger to this day. Having at least a few people armed is probably a good idea. Were that not the case for Garland, there might've been many innocents killed. That's pretty much the reality of it, and yes, it sucks.
well i gave you a example, and btw i asked you questions and you didnt answer nothing so spare me your outrage.
So again do you really dont get why they are armed, if there is a good chance they get attacked?? You that naive?
Hyperactivity
Banned
So if someone with a gun stood next to you and started to try and piss you off, you wouldn't be intimidated.
m_shortpants
Member
I have nothing against the right to bear arms. I own several guns myself.
I am, however, against using those arms to intimidate people from congregating at a place of worship. Don't try and bullshit me into saying that's not what they're trying to do. Because nothing says peaceful protest like shirts that say "fuck Islam" while standing outside with guns. OF COURSE people are going to be intimidated. And guess what? You know what the definition of terrorism is? The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. So congrats, you're basically one step (violence) removed.
I am, however, against using those arms to intimidate people from congregating at a place of worship. Don't try and bullshit me into saying that's not what they're trying to do. Because nothing says peaceful protest like shirts that say "fuck Islam" while standing outside with guns. OF COURSE people are going to be intimidated. And guess what? You know what the definition of terrorism is? The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. So congrats, you're basically one step (violence) removed.
Positive message being sent here. Time to show the people of the world that Americans aren't afraid to arm themselves heavily and draw offensive cartoons in front of a church congregation, no siree.
I feel like freedom of speech would be way better utilized to condemn and criticize the murderers and violence instead of blatantly stirring up shit, but whatever gets your hate-boner going I guess
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