NoMoreTrolls
Banned
It would look like you were concern trolling.
Oh.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Sony is Building a Hostage Crisis!!!!! (List of Games to Kickstarter)
- Thread starter Immaculate
- Start date
Oh.
ForsakenLotus
Member
I really hope Sony doesn't hold a game I love that has little hope of being revived hostage. I just can't stand somebody trying to help make a game happen that wouldn't have.
Littlefang
Member
Alright, you think people should not voice dissension on something that they disagree with. I think it's a good thing to have an ongoing discussion on the decisions that a company makes.
You act as though this is the Shenmue OT thread or the Shenmue developers reaction thread (which I haven't touched mind you) which is where Shenmue fans should be able to enjoy their game without having to view the criticism towards it.
If you went into the Halo 5 OT thread and criticized Microsoft/Bungie for including micro-transactions in the multiplayer then fine that can be viewed as instigating or whatever. I don't see anything wrong with voicing those concerns in any thread that is specifically for discussing the implications of microtransactions within the game. I've been voicing my qualms in threads that aren't specifically geared towards fans of either Shenmue or Sony.
fredrancour
Member
And then Bayo 4 cofunded with microsoft.
and then bayo 5 cofunded with facebook to promote gaming on oculus.
every sequel exclusive to a different content provider!
ForsakenLotus
Member
Here's the thing, it's fine if people on the forum disagree. The reason so many people are calling you out is because you are voicing concerns for situations that doesn't seen to be happening, and aren't a big risk of happening. Shenmue 3 is a game that was so unlikely to happen it became a meme, a joke on GAF to hope or predict the game being announced. And there are plenty of other games that don't have the cult following of Shenmue 3 that have a chance to be made now.
You are very, very close to concern trolling.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
And he's done it in 3 or more threads, of course.
It wouldn't be so bad if fully a fifth of his total posts on GAF weren't Shenmue concern posts.
Tanoooki
Member
As great as Kickstarter is for getting games funded I don't understand why titles that would be guaranteed to sell need to use it. Shenmue obviously has the cooperation of huge companies like Sony so why would they need to use Kickstarter.
Why can't Sony front the development fees? Is this just cheaper all around?
Why can't Sony front the development fees? Is this just cheaper all around?
UnObtainium17
Member
We should kickstart a campaign for a GAF game publishing and then kickstart a campaign to sign the most awaited free agent of game developing in Kojima.
Those guarantees are hardly there, plus it obviously helps to get the greenlight for fundings alot easier and faster.
And it's not like those people on kickstarter get nothing in return...
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why? Why is this bad?
mentallyinept
Banned
That's just the thing, they don't know if these games are going to sell, so they use Kickstarter as a proving ground for interest.
I have no inherent issue with this model but feel it should be reserved for titles/dormant IPs where it is a last resort. Yu Suzuki tried to get Shenmue 3 off the ground for 14 years. Konami essentially locked Igarashi "in a dungeon" for years. It is only NOW, long after Mighty No. 9 (a spiritual successor, not a sequel) had a successful kickstarter, that Mega Man is showing signs of life. This model seems fine for titles that have failed in the mainstream but have strong minority support but I don't want it to become a "first resort" so to speak, especially for brand new IPs that are trying to get off the ground. It's easy to tell you'll be interested in a sequel of your favorite series or a spiritual successor but I don't know if something like say Splatoon would be able to garner enough fan interest via KS to move into full production if all you had to look at were maybe some CG models or demo footage of one level and no gameplay demo. Also, if this becomes a "first resort" model, then the publishers end up with all the power Kickstater sought to try to redistribute.
Also people have to be somewhat realistic with this. You can only raise so much money via Kickstarter. Unless the Kickstater contribution is negligible in the grand scheme of things, you aren't getting a project of the caliber that someone like Kojima usually works on his his huge budgets.
Also people have to be somewhat realistic with this. You can only raise so much money via Kickstarter. Unless the Kickstater contribution is negligible in the grand scheme of things, you aren't getting a project of the caliber that someone like Kojima usually works on his his huge budgets.
jimforspeed
Neo Member
I love how this was supposed to be bad news meant to spark debates but the whole first page was immediately filled with game suggestions 
.
.ForsakenLotus
Member
I don't think it's fair to use "guaranteed to sell" and "Shenmue" in the same sentence. The first two games had massive budgets and bombed tremendously 14 years ago. There was no guarantee the game would sell, that's why nobody stepped up to fund the game outright. Despite the awesome Kickstarter, there is a chance that depending on the overall budget Shenmue 3 still might not make money - and it's unlikely it will make much money in the best circumstance.
Shenmue 3 is a very risky project. If it took a Kickstarter for Sony to help fund the game or determine how much they will help fund the game, I don't see the problem.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Actually the thread started as a list of games type of thread then people came in with absurd hostage posts and a mod changed the title to make fun of the derail and the thread has simply not gotten back on track. This whole Shenmue thing has been a carnival of stupid.I love how this was supposed to be bad news meant to spark debates but the whole first page was immediately filled with game suggestions
Wait what
2 Slice Toaster
Member
Won't they face considerable backlash the first time a title comes really close to hitting a kickstarter goal but doesn't meet it?
Say Shenmue 3 hadn't been such a runaway success in terms of support. What if it had only made 1.9 million over its 30 days. Aren't people going to be a little hacked, justifiably or not, that Sony pulls the rug on funding a title because of this?
Say Shenmue 3 hadn't been such a runaway success in terms of support. What if it had only made 1.9 million over its 30 days. Aren't people going to be a little hacked, justifiably or not, that Sony pulls the rug on funding a title because of this?
I really take no issue with it.
This isn't Sony acting as a publisher, it is Sony acting as more of an "angel investor".
And I think that's just fine! They have multiple and different ways that they fund projects. PubFund is a cash transfer for some exclusivity benefits and marketing, full publishing usually involves owning the IP and footing 100% of the bill, and now they are potentially adding another stream that involves paying for part of development, and risk-sharing another part with customers.
It's just fine with me. Risk-sharing is a wonderful development of Finance, and the game industry has been notoriously risk averse over the past decade. If willing consumers want to absorb some of that risk so that some of the more out-there products come to market, I'm all for it.
This isn't Sony acting as a publisher, it is Sony acting as more of an "angel investor".
And I think that's just fine! They have multiple and different ways that they fund projects. PubFund is a cash transfer for some exclusivity benefits and marketing, full publishing usually involves owning the IP and footing 100% of the bill, and now they are potentially adding another stream that involves paying for part of development, and risk-sharing another part with customers.
It's just fine with me. Risk-sharing is a wonderful development of Finance, and the game industry has been notoriously risk averse over the past decade. If willing consumers want to absorb some of that risk so that some of the more out-there products come to market, I'm all for it.
This post got me thinking will any Sony execs even read neogaf? What good are our list if they never even read it? I am a huge legends fan and I have been looking for a chance to put my money where my mouth is and show that I want legends 3. I think that we should humbly ask Sony to consider our lists . Maybe we should make some sort of Twitter campaign and catchy hashtag .Both Adam Boyes (@amboyes) and Gio Corsi (@giocorsi) have Twitter account and as the VP of publisher & Developer Relations and Director of 3rd party Production and DDeveloper Relations they are probably the best people to ask .It is a long shot but it think that it worth it.
Congratulations to the shenmue fans for sticking together and holding out hope all these years . When the time came you guys banded together and did what need to be done to ensure victory.
Mass Effect
Member
Yeah they do. Adam Boyes even has an account here.
I'm fairly sure every game company has employees who read GAF. It might not be the top level, but they probably have people reporting what people say here.
BlackSalad
Member
another skies of Arcadia would be nice
also, PSO2 in NA
also, PSO2 in NA
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Thanks for tuning in & I'm glad some of you enjoyed the show
That is Adam Boyes in the Sony presser OT.
That's exactly what it is.
You know I honestly hadn't considered the use of Kickstarter as being a market correction but I can see how people could see that being the case and don't get me wrong there are tons of "dead" franchises that I'd love to see revived. But, I find the idea of a market correction entailing subsidies from the consumer distasteful.
To me a real market correction would be increased investment in riskier more ambitious IPs directly from the publisher. As I said kickstarter, to me, seems more like a stop gap (a way for increasingly risk averse companies to further minimize that risk) rather than a much needed change in the mindset of what constitutes a worthy investment.
My immediate reaction to the Shenmue announcement was overwhelming excitement followed by an audible "what the fuck? This is a thing now?" When it became clear it was a kickstarter campaign. To me crowd funding was always a way to fund the games that publishers wouldn't not a tool for publishers to further minimize their own risk and such a use of the platform feels like a perversion to me. For this reason j don't think I could ever get behind the idea of this becoming a trend in the industry even if it means the revival of beloved franchises. I understand why others would I just can't, in good conscience, agree.
arglebargle
Member
kickstarter rewards and collector's editions are effectively price discrimination (in its formal economic definition). you are charging more to people who are willing to pay more. i think its pretty clever. of course, for it to be effective, the additional tiers have to cost you less than the incremental revenue, but i am sure most of the time they do.
i would bet that if this becomes more common you will start to see sony set up the sites themselves. similar to how cloud imperium still accepts contributions on its website. and sony already has the ability to process credit cards so i dont think there is that much infrastructure needed. i think right now kickstarter has mind share and is a bit of a phenomenon, but there is no reason sony couldnt process payments. kickstarter has launched this trend, but by all rights they should lose control for the larger kickstarters. smaller stuff should still stay there because the network effects and discovery mechanisms will help the smaller projects.
i would bet that if this becomes more common you will start to see sony set up the sites themselves. similar to how cloud imperium still accepts contributions on its website. and sony already has the ability to process credit cards so i dont think there is that much infrastructure needed. i think right now kickstarter has mind share and is a bit of a phenomenon, but there is no reason sony couldnt process payments. kickstarter has launched this trend, but by all rights they should lose control for the larger kickstarters. smaller stuff should still stay there because the network effects and discovery mechanisms will help the smaller projects.
ZettaiSeigi
Member
As much as I would love another Patapon (be it on PS4 and/or Vita), it wouldn't look good for Sony to kickstart IPs that they already own. And thankfully, it looks like they're not even taking that route, given that it's their Third Party Relations that's behind this little "hostage situation".
OMG. I like you. Listen to this guy, Sony!
His repetitive posts pretty much goes along with my breakfast now. Whether it's fun or not is something I haven't fully decided yet. LOL
I believe that if KS fail, money will be refunded to everyone.
I dont understand why people keep saying Sony get every thing, Sony has no risk, Sony only gain this and that.
In this Situation, Sony took the greater risk than everyone else.
They give time(money) for this in E3 show.
They funded this game (xx millions) on this game.
YS is the only one who got to spend this KS funds.
People need to know this game is no niche that it might not be selling at all after this KS. (Huge budget and doesnt sell well)
Sony will lose those $$$ if this fail more than everyone else.
So Sony, listen to Shia! DO IT! Suikoden!
Anos Voldigoad
Member
Give me Colony Wars Remake for PS4.
DO IT!
DO IT!
When companies are risk adverse, they are risk adverse for a reason. Last generation is filled with the corpses of dozens of companies that made riskier, more ambitious IPs that they thought would appeal to the then-current console market. Part of the reason why other forms of media have been able to succeed is because of them relying on a number of different subsidies in a variety of revenue models. Film has theater showings, as well as disc and digital releases, rentals, airings on television, streaming, and merchandising. Music has song releases, as well as albums, concerts, airings on radio, streaming, and merchandising. Even comic books have monthly issues as well as graphic novels, digital releases, and merchandising. Until last gen, video games were for the most part just a game release, rentals, and arcades. Arcades, which were an alternate revenue model, were on their way out prior to last gen and rereleases of games were generally limited to portable ports and compilation rereleases. The correction is the addition of new alternate revenue models, which is digital releases, DLC, microtransactions, and Kickstarter as well as merchandising. Remasters and PC releases are also a part of this trend in that they are about making a game have a longer tail.
As this pertains to Kickstarter, I'll focus on what publishers seem to be using it for. Remember what I said about last generation being filled with the corpses of dozens of companies that made riskier, more ambitious IPs that they thought would appeal to the then-current console market? It should be pretty obvious that many video game companies don't actually know what their customers actually want. Companies like Konami, Capcom, Sega, and Nintendo wouldn't be in their current states in the console market and MS would not have had the most horrible reveal of a console ever two years ago if they had a clue what their customers actually wanted from them. Both Square Enix and Sony themselves suffered last gen because they didn't know what their customers wanted. Do note that Sony did not use Kickstarter for Last Guardian which is going to be a very niche game but one that they control completely and thus completely funded themselves. Nor did Sony use Kickstarter for the Final Fantasy VII Remake which has potential for success because it is a remake of one of the best-selling games of the PS1 Era and thus a known quantity. Kickstarter is however being used for Shenmue III, which is the sequel to two highly expensive bombs. Shenmue is a known quantity in the opposite direction to Final Fantasy VII, namely a quantity known to lead to high profile bombs.
It's been pretty obvious that Sony has been keeping up with what the internet would want while still being mindful of sales potential since the PS4 launch was planned, whereas both Nintendo and MS have stumbled in this regard. The Last Guardian gets funded because it is something the internet would love and is also a first-party exclusive thus serving as another reason to buy a PS4. Final Fantasy VII Remake gets funded because it is the something the internet would love and is the remake of one of the most successful games of the PS1 Era. Shenmue III is also something the internet would love, but the last two games bombed badly, so there needs to be some sign of confidence that helping out Shenmue III is worth their time and money. Kickstarter serves perfectly in gauging public interest in something like Shenmue III because people are actually putting down cash on the promise of Shenmue III despite the last two games being high profile bombs. Shenmue III would not have happened without Kickstarter proving there is an audience for it now because without Kickstarter proving otherwise, Shenmue III would be seen as a game that would bomb since the prior two games in the series bombed.
superseohyun
Member
and the problem is?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Ugghhhh this can only end poorly
PdotMichael
Banned
So you would prefer no third, fourth or fifth part of the series?
HORRORSHØW
Member
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Somehow, I don't see this going down the positive route you envision....