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Shahed
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:34 PM)
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Digital purchases I've always been a bit apprehensive about. Mainly because you are beholden to the provider and the general customer rights involving them. It's why I always go physical where possible due to the flexibility and having control in my own hands. The exceptions being for digital only games and if there's a steep discount. Also why I've pretty much bought nothing on my Android account either (bar a few essentials and no games).

One of the things I've liked recently is Steam's no questions asked refund policy. Yes it has potential to be open to abuse, but it's something every digital storefront should have as a safeguard for a customer. And they've stated those that abuse it may not have access to it in the future so it all works out well in the end. People who use the refund policy for a legit reason will be shown goodwill, other's not so much. It's kind of like how Amazon customer service is by far the best I've experienced. I use them extensively and very rarely have problems, but on the off chance there is one they help me out and everything is so straight forward. A friend I know has some problems with them, but I know he's the type of person to abuse refunds/goodwill so in a way it makes sense. Reward good customers and maybe take a bit more care with others.

Now this brings me to my current problem. I'd gotten in from work yesterday with the Vita and a few other things in my hand. I couldn't put them all away at once so I left the Vita on a counter, and when I came back i saw it was on the table in a different room and a purchase had been made for a film. My sister and 2 year old niece were visiting and in the 2 minutes i was gone someone must have given the Vita to her and the purchase was made. It hadn't been downloaded and it was asking me If I wanted to which I declined.

First thing I did was find out the Customer Service number to but they were out of hours (Close at 8:30PM in the UK which is ridiculously early). I called them today wanting a refund explaining the problem. They agent said he'd send a refund request through to the department, but in his experience he expects it to be declined. I mean what? I never downloaded the film, have an account that stretches back to 2008 in which I've made a good amount of purchases over the years and never needed to call customer service or ask for a refund before, and a purchase that the agent agreed was clearly made in error can't be refunded because that's their policy.

The agent accused me of lax security on my end as well and said I should have had password on checkout. Now I can accept that my niece getting into her hands was on my end (even if I left it on a high counter for 2 mins), but the extra security is something I've always wanted. I have it so a password is required on checkout for all my online purchases, be they digital on stuff like Google Play, or retailers like Amazon. It's something I've wanted to set up on the Vita for ages but could never find the option. When I asked the agent how to do it, of all things he then says he's not sure if it's possible on Vita and shows me how to do it on PS4 instead.

Now if this was Steam there wouldn't be a problem. I'd have applied for a refund straightaway and gotten one no questions asked. PSN and other digital market places need to have a similar policy for purchases made in error. By all means take note and flag accounts that may abuse it, but Sony can clearly see that I've never bought a film on PSN before and it's obviously an unusual purchase that I requested a refund for at the earliest opportunity. But apparantly my refund request is unlikely to go through and I'll be very annoyed if it doesn't. It's not so much about the actual cost which I can write off, but more the principal of the matter and how pathetically awful Sony's policy is on refunds that I'm most angry about.
Last edited by Shahed; 06-30-2015 at 02:48 PM.
Xater
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:36 PM)
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I'm with you. Every digital store should have a refund policy like Steam or maybe Origin. I don't think the current state of PSN or many other places is something consumers should be happy with.
Proteus
BOSS
(06-30-2015, 02:36 PM)
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These threads pop up weekly at this point.

Sony needs to get the fucking hint.

They gave me the "expected to be declined" bullshit as well but turned around and "graciously" offered me a one time refund but reminded me that this isn't what they usually do.
Massa
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:39 PM)

Originally Posted by Xater

I'm with you. Every digital store should have a refund policy like Steam or maybe Origin. I don't think the current state of PSN or many other places is something consumers should be happy with.

Sony doesn't even refund you when your account is hacked, they're light years away from letting people refund their own purchases.
Gen.Grievous
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:39 PM)

Originally Posted by Xater

I'm with you. Every digital store should have a refund policy like Steam or maybe Origin. I don't think the current state of PSN or many other places is something consumers should be happy with.

Steam has only just introduced it after 12 years. Give it some time.
TomShoe
Banned
(06-30-2015, 02:39 PM)
Sorry to hear about your predicament, OP. Just a few months ago my cousin's idiot son bought $10 worth of NBA 2K14 VC because he thought he was paying in-game currency for it. He didn't even notice the PSN store coming up and seeing real-life money on the screen. I'm sort of glad I only see him like twice a year, he needs to grow up.

The next day I immediately put passwords on all of my accounts. I was going to buy Castle Crashers with that money :^(

Other than setting passwords:

- Never leave your credit card details on PSN.
- Keep your balance low. Try not to ever exceed $10.
- If you need PSN credit, use pre-paid cards from Amazon.
- Buy physical unless there's a steal of a deal.
Xater
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Massa

Sony doesn't even refund you when your account is hacked, they're light years away from letting people refund their own purchases.

Oh I know, and even if they grant you a "refund" you only get credit for you PSN account. It's really shitty.
FlyinJ
Douchebag. Yes, me.
(06-30-2015, 02:41 PM)
If Sony (and MS) had the same refund policy as Steam, it would solve the publishers pushing out broken buggy games issue overnight.
Yoday
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:41 PM)
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They don't let you cancel pre-orders either, which is just insane. They have the system in place since they are required to have the option in the EU, but they just don't let us do it because they don't have to. It's disgusting.
MMaRsu
Banned
(06-30-2015, 02:41 PM)
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Sorry to hear that. It seems Euro Sony customer service are assholes about returns.

Got a refund for digital Destiny copy O bought from the US store though..

But yeah, him accusing you is just bullcrap and they should refund you.

To the poster above, they absolutely let you cancel preorders. On ur ps4 go to settings>account management>list of services

At least I think.
Acorn
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Massa

Sony doesn't even refund you when your account is hacked, they're light years away from letting people refund their own purchases.

How the fuck do video game companies get away with breaking consumer law all the god damn time?

I've gotten refunds from places by just quoting the law (eg steam prior to the refund introduction) but i shouldn't need to.
Rosur
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Acorn

How the fuck do video game companies get away with breaking consumer law all the god damn time?

I've gotten refunds from places by just quoting the law (eg steam prior to the refund introduction) but i shouldn't need to.

'Cause no one has bothered taking them to court to force them to...
JetSetRadio
Banned
(06-30-2015, 02:45 PM)
I hope steam sets a precedent.
At least for games, movies could be excluded obviously.
StrangeTaco
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by JetSetRadio

I hope steam sets a precedent.

Well technically Origin did it way before Steam but yeah hopefully Sony gets it in their head.
Ponn
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:47 PM)
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If it was on a high counter i'd be more worried about how fast your sister is to give a 2 year old other peoples expensive electronic devices as if they were toys.
Xater
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by StrangeTaco

Well technically Origin did it way before Steam but yeah hopefully Sony gets it in their head.

Didn't GOG even do it before Origin? Or was that the other way around?
Persona7
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:47 PM)
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Steam has a refund policy? They told me to fuck off a few months ago when I purchased a game that was completely broken.
Rezae
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:48 PM)
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My digital collection is rather large on PS3/Vita. Makes me nervous. I think a lot of this is due to companies being overly defensive because there are a lot of scammers who take advantage of everything. For every true sob story about someone getting hacked and screwed over, there are probably just as many if not much more that are trying to take advantage and lie about things. So it's easier, in Sony's opinion, to just cover their ears and have a blanket "too bad" policy. It's a lazy and ultimately destructive mentality to have over the long-term. You want to be a digital player and maintain that? Figure this shit out, the right way.
StrangeTaco
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Xater

Didn't GOG even do it before Origin? Or was that the other way around?

Haha couldnt say for GoG because ive never needed to refund anything from them.

Originally Posted by Persona7

Steam has a refund policy? They told me to fuck off a few months ago when I purchased a game that was completely broken.

They introduced it just recently.
Proteus
BOSS
(06-30-2015, 02:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Persona7

Steam has a refund policy? They told me to fuck off a few months ago when I purchased a game that was completely broken.

They introduced it a few weeks ago. You could use their new system to try and refund that game now as they have been honouring refunds for games bought since the beginning of the year and have under 2 hours played.

For new games purchased it will be a two week period and under 2 hours played.
KORNdoggy
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Persona7

Steam has a refund policy? They told me to fuck off a few months ago when I purchased a game that was completely broken.

it's brand new. and how long did it take to happen? how long has steam being around again?

sony will get there. just don't expect it anytime soon.

but ultimately this is why i don't buy digital.
chronic_archaic
Junior Member
(06-30-2015, 02:51 PM)
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I've only heard horror stories about getting PSN refunds sadly - good luck.
Euphoria14
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:51 PM)
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Yeah, Sony is terrible with this.

A couple years back I was dabbling in DC Universe Online just to check it out and my daughter who was 4 at the time wanted to walk around in the game. Sure enough she found a room with portals that are activated if specific DLC is purchased. Of course these portals bring you straight to the PSN store to purchase.

She purchased one for $10 and I promptly called Sony to ask for a refund. I never downloaded the DLC and made them aware of that.

Sure enough I never got my refund. So with that I will never buy digital products from PSN.


Edit - Yes, I know I should have had a PSN password to protect against unwanted purchases, so the blame does fall on me for the most part. However, I do think I should have still gotten a refund since the product was never downloaded and used.
Persona7
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:52 PM)
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Oh, I see now. I found a thread about the new steam refund policy.
Shahed
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ponn01

If it was on a high counter i'd be more worried about how fast your sister is to give a 2 year old other peoples expensive electronic devices as if they were toys.

I asked what happened. My sister wouldn't do that since she plays games and knows what a Vita is. My mother who came with them is clueless in that regard though and when my niece asked for it (she calls it a 'big phone') she just gave it since she's sheen her mess around with phones where we all have our passwords on.

Heck I have WiFi off be default and only put it on when I download something. So in those 2 minutes my niece must have wandered into the Kitchen with her grandmother, asked for the Vita which she saw on the counter, unlocked it, turned Wifi back on, gone to PS Store and found the SD version of Focus for Ŗ11.99 and bought it. I'm surprised she managed to do all that so fast and not interupt my suspended game.
Syntsui
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:57 PM)
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How good is microsoft refund policy for comparison's sake?
Minions
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:57 PM)
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Can the same thing be said about physical copies? Many stores won't take back a opened copy of a game, the ones that do generally only provide store credit at best.

Just my experience in the US anyway. Also to what degree should these refund policies take affect? Should they also apply to Music? In a couple hours you can listen through an album multiple times i many cases, then get a refund.

I'm all for easy refunds, I just don't see them being practical in many instances. Opening an item lowers the perceived value (that rules out retail), Digital Music can be easily copied, which rules out music in many cases. I guess these refund policies could only apply to closed platforms with stringent DRM (games).
Kinsella
Banned
(06-30-2015, 02:58 PM)
Yeah Sony is awful. They give you one refund a year (but only if the game is completely broken) and they act like they're doing you a favor when they do give one. I'm surprised MS hasn't attempted to one-up Sony by introducing a refund policy. I know I'd buy more games from the company that allowed for refunds easily ala Steam.

Originally Posted by Syntsui

How good is microsoft refund policy for comparison's sake?

When I got a refund for Halo they acted as shitty as Sony and treated me like I was lucky to be given a refund for their broken turd of a game.
IISANDERII
Member
(06-30-2015, 02:59 PM)
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UK gets refunds i think. Not sure why their government/laws are so consumer friendly and why they're the only ones.
Z3M0G
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:00 PM)
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I purchased PS3 version of a game instead of PS4 version once, and immediately noticed the error. I called them up and they said they would forgive it this one time. :/ They refunded it... and I purchased the PS4 version which cost more as well... so it's not like they have anything to complain about. It was an honest mistake in my excitement to buy a new game online using the web store.

It was also a pre-order... long before the release of the actual game... so even refunding a pre-order was a "one time" deal...
stryke
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Minions

Can the same thing be said about physical copies? Many stores won't take back a opened copy of a game, the ones that do generally only provide store credit at best.

Just my experience in the US anyway.

EB Games Australia will refund your game for up to 7 days after purchase, no questions asked.
Shahed
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Minions

Can the same thing be said about physical copies? Many stores won't take back a opened copy of a game, the ones that do generally only provide store credit at best.

Just my experience in the US anyway. Also to what degree should these refund policies take affect? Should they also apply to Music? In a couple hours you can listen through an album multiple times i many cases, then get a refund.

I'm all for easy refunds, I just don't see them being practical in many instances. Opening an item lowers the perceived value (that rules out retail), Digital Music can be easily copied, which rules out music in many cases. I guess these refund policies could only apply to closed platforms with stringent DRM (games).

Well it depends on how you look at it. Digital games don't have the resale value issue so that's no problem there. However the equivalent of opening a game would be downloading the content which I have not done. Also PSN credit would be fine as I paid for it with PSN cards. I don't use my actual Debit/Credit cards for any digital store. PSN/XBL/Steam/Google all use wallet vouchers

And then you have to look at the bigger picture. A customer has invested a good deal of money into your ecosystem. Then they make an abnormal purchase that seems strange, which is followed by an immediate enquiry saying it was an accidental purchase. They're records would show that is most likely the case. And even if it wasn't, do you really want to turn away a repeated customer with no bad history on a one off purchase, and risk souring them off future transactions?
Last edited by Shahed; 06-30-2015 at 03:06 PM.
Minions
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by stryke

EB Games Australia will refund your game for up to 7 days after purchase, no questions asked.

I guess that is true. I was thinking normal retailers (Target, Walmart, Bestbuy, Frys etc) I forgot to take into account gamestop. Their model works though since the value difference between new and used is normally about $5.
AbandonedTrolley
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:07 PM)
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Preordered Bloodborne on PS4, it even pre downloaded to my machine, I called them up the day before it released/unlocked and asked for a refund as I had the physical copy. 2 days later I had the money back in my wallet and also a digital copy of Bloodborne that they didn't revoke the licence on.
hikarutilmitt
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:09 PM)
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I'm of two minds about this:

1) the refund should be applicable, since you didn't stream or download the video. Refunds on digital goods purchased but not used in any way should absolutely be possible within a given time frame. This is something I hope changes for all regions.

2) you should have had Require Password on your account, as the rep said. I do this even for myself, just in case I decide to not buy something at the last minute. If a purchase were made in true error or been a glitch in the system, sure, but from their viewpoint you bought it without it being unintentional. I do know people who will buy something with the intent of downloading it later, so those become grey areas.

I do think Steam's method is good, excellent even, as they have a way to track how much time you've spent on a game and have an easier time telling if you're trying to game the system. IIRC the policy for refunding things from XBL are similarly difficult, though you'll hear stories from both sides about how difficult/easy it is.
fernoca
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:10 PM)
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It is a problem across "the main 3", and Steam was the same up until a few weeks ago. So, guess we should give it some time.

This kind of system can't be added in a few weeks or even months. There's also the fact that "the main 3" needs third-parties more than Steam does, so it's a decision they also need to pass by them.
Ninja Scooter
bow down to the
Kings in Raider hats
(06-30-2015, 03:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by FlyinJ

If Sony (and MS) had the same refund policy as Steam, it would solve the publishers pushing out broken buggy games issue overnight.

You mean like how steam announced their refund policy and like a week later a broken ass PC version of a AAA game shipped?
EmptySpace
Banned
(06-30-2015, 03:17 PM)
sorry if i can't sympathize with you.

you said you've always wanted the password on checkout. i googled it and it wss the first result. if you've truly wanted it then you should've done it already. and the process would've taken as quick as you left your vita lying around.

leaving around a device that can make purchases, without password protection. with kids in the house.

it is a movie, and more than a couple of hours has passed since the purchase when you made the call.

seems to me more like a lesson learned the hard way than an awful refund system.
Trogdor1123
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:18 PM)
I agree that some kind of refund policy should exist but I also think that people need to realize that they are responsible for their own equipment and the purchases made on them.

If you haven't even downloaded the game they should refund you though in any case. Thats just silly.

Certainly they can see that and that games on hacked accounts are in totally different regions right?
SparkTR
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ninja Scooter

You mean like how steam announced their refund policy and like a week later a broken ass PC version of a AAA game shipped?

I doubt their response would have been the same if a refund system didn't exist, pulling the game and giving refunds to non-Steam purchases isn't something I've seen before. Arkham Knight was a litmus test and I'm sure nobody there would have predicted refunds were this powerful of a tool before this, I don't doubt this will affect the quality of future ports. The game single-handedly cemented the importance of refund systems in digital stores.
Last edited by SparkTR; 06-30-2015 at 03:25 PM.
xxracerxx
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gen.Grievous

Steam has only just introduced it after 12 years. Give it some time.

Seriously.
Ahjumbie
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shahed

Well it depends on how you look at it. Digital games don't have the resale value issue so that's no problem there. However the equivalent of opening a game would be downloading the content which I have not done. Also PSN credit would be fine as I paid for it with PSN cards. I don't use my actual Debit/Credit cards for any digital store. PSN/XBL/Steam/Google all use wallet vouchers

And then you have to look at the bigger picture. A customer has invested a good deal of money into your ecosystem. Then they make an abnormal purchase that seems strange, which is followed by an immediate enquiry saying it was an accidental purchase. They're records would show that is most likely the case. And even if it wasn't, do you really want to turn away a repeated customer with no bad history on a one off purchase, and risk souring them off future transactions?

I never got why they don't use records or buying habits when making a decision on an account. Whether for a refund or otherwise.A friend had his account stolen a couple years back and with in the space of 12 hours his account jumped half way across the planet and hundreds worth of purchaces for fifa , a game that he's never played. Hell he's never played any sports game ever but it still took them
3 or 4 months to get him his account back.
Neuromancer
The Mayuh of f'n Bawston
(06-30-2015, 03:26 PM)
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I wouldn't get too angry until you got a final determination. It's still pending, right? Just because one CSR says he doesn't think you'll get a refund, doesn't mean you won't get it. I've erroneously purchased two things from PSN before (a game and an automatic subscription extension) and both times I was refunded after talking to customer service.

Also, I would definitely use the 'password required at checkout' option. Even if you don't have roving packs of toddlers in your house, it's a reasonably decent measure of security.
Last edited by Neuromancer; 06-30-2015 at 03:29 PM.
Purest 78
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:27 PM)
Set it so a password is needed to purchase anything problem solved.
Teletraan1
fuck those devs
cuz I'm down for my devs
(06-30-2015, 03:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by EmptySpace

sorry if i can't sympathize with you.

you said you've always wanted the password on checkout. i googled it and it wss the first result. if you've truly wanted it then you should've done it already. and the process would've taken as quick as you left your vita lying around.

leaving around a device that can make purchases, without password protection. with kids in the house.

it is a movie, and more than a couple of hours has passed since the purchase when you made the call.

seems to me more like a lesson learned the hard way than an awful refund system.

Feel the same way. I password protect every single console since they started having digital stores. I dont need my nephew ringing up purchases when he comes over and plays my stuff.

Every day on this forum it is another Sony is the worst/terrible @ _______ thread. Up until a few weeks ago this was the case for most digital stores sans the reviled Origin but nobody cared about origin because reasons. I think they should all be better at handling refunds but people expect every retailer to follow suit immediately. That is unrealistic. It took the god tier Steam from august 20th 2013 to impliment this policy Origin also had.
derExperte
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gen.Grievous

Steam has only just introduced it after 12 years. Give it some time.

They granted refunds before. Only reluctantly, you had to deal with the slow customer service and throw around some customer-protection laws but still.

Originally Posted by Teletraan1

It took the god tier Steam from august 20th 2013 to impliment this policy Origin also had.

They did it better though, on Origin you can only get refunds for EA's own games.
funkypie
Banned
(06-30-2015, 03:30 PM)
unless its is really cheap and a great deal, buying digital is a mugs game, avoid it. I feel sorry for people who paid $60 for the order via digital lol.
Elandyll
Wants his cup full of frames
(06-30-2015, 03:30 PM)
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With kids around, I too am a bit nervous about unwanted transactions tbh.

This being said, setting up a password needed doesn't look like it is nearly as esoteric as the OP make it sound it looks like (if it indeed works), I googled this in under 1 minute:

http://faq.en.playstation.com/app/an...d-requirement#

Playstation Vita

1. From the Home Menu go to (PlayStationŽStore) and tap (Options) > Transaction Management > [Security].

2. Enter your password.

3. Tick or untick the check box to to turn the password requirement on or off.

But yes, refunds when the product has either not been used or within 1-2h of checkout should be allowable (imo in the OPs specific case it was a cascade of bad luck and poor foresight though).
Last edited by Elandyll; 06-30-2015 at 03:33 PM.
Shahed
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by EmptySpace

sorry if i can't sympathize with you.

you said you've always wanted the password on checkout. i googled it and it wss the first result. if you've truly wanted it then you should've done it already. and the process would've taken as quick as you left your vita lying around.

leaving around a device that can make purchases, without password protection. with kids in the house.

it is a movie, and more than a couple of hours has passed since the purchase when you made the call.

seems to me more like a lesson learned the hard way than an awful refund system.

Okay I'll admit I didn't check as thoroughly as i could have. I remeber looking for it when i first bought the Vita several years ago but didn't find it then, and it slipped my mind since. And i left it out of the child's range, but never anticipated someone would give it to them. Okay I'll accept that.

But you're saying it's a movie and more than a couple of hours passed? Well firstly i didn't download the movie and the agent said he can see i haven't downloaded it, so they know I haven't watched it. As for not calling? Well that's because they were out of hours. I sent an immediate email and then called first thing the next day. I got in touch with them via different means as soon as it was possible.

Originally Posted by Elandyll

With kids around, I too am a bit nervous about unwanted transactions tbh.

This being said, setting up a password needed doesn't look like it is nearly as esoteric as the OP make it sound it looks like (if it indeed works), I googled this in under 1 minute:

http://faq.en.playstation.com/app/an...d-requirement#

Playstation Vita

1. From the Home Menu go to (PlayStationŽStore) and tap (Options) > Transaction Management > [Security].

2. Enter your password.

3. Tick or untick the check box to to turn the password requirement on or off.

But yes, refunds when the product has either not been used or within 1-2h or checkout should be allowable (imo in the OPs specific case it was a cascade of bad luck and poor foresight though).

Yeah I've seen it now. But I didn't know that years ago when I bought the device. Also the agent appeared to not know that either and showed me how through the PS4. They aren't even consistent on how to apply it accross devices. On PS4 you got to Setting>PSN Account> management>information and sort it out there. However if yo got to the same place on Vita there's nothing. You change it via Playstation Store instead of your Account Settings.
Last edited by Shahed; 06-30-2015 at 03:36 PM.
QuickSilverD
Member
(06-30-2015, 03:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by chronic_archaic

I've only heard horror stories about getting PSN refunds sadly - good luck.

well people who have decent experiences probably don't feel the need to post them.

I once bought Persona Arena Ultimax but once I download it wouldn't install for some reason, tried again and the file became corrupted again, I still don't know what the problem was, but I asked for a refund and got it without any problem within a few days of my request.

The email they give you back does include that line that "we usually don't refund purchases blah blah, but we'll do this one this one time" thing

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