Some of Miyamoto's FP Zelda ideas were pretty wild. At one point, he suggested "Zelda 64" should have been a Terminator-style time travel story as an excuse to give Link a gun.
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How was the reaction to the Prime 1 reveal?
- Thread starter bomblord1
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Some of Miyamoto's FP Zelda ideas were pretty wild. At one point, he suggested "Zelda 64" should have been a Terminator-style time travel story as an excuse to give Link a gun.
Interceptor
Banned
Yep. And now imagine the reactions a day after Sony announced Jesus himself with a lot of people in trollmode flooding the forums.
I'm not going to pretend as if it's a proper alternative to Metroid but it looks like fun. If this is the game Tanabe and NLG want to make, let them. I can wait.
Whatever the next Metroid "is" it was bound to be on the NX anyway ever since Retro was confirmed to be working on Tropical Freeze.
I remember it clearly and it was BAD. Nobody could understand how the hell you turn an exploration/adventure series like Metroid and just take the easy way out by dumbing it down to a FPS. Would ruin everything that made a Metroid game what it was.
And then the previews and reviews came out and it was "Holy shit! It's still Metroid!? What kind of wizardry did they pull off?!"
And then the previews and reviews came out and it was "Holy shit! It's still Metroid!? What kind of wizardry did they pull off?!"
You really trying to defend this?
I watched the stream.ill defend it. Looks fun
ha! yea sure people took the shift to first person in stride.
GravityMan
Member
I lurked on GAF back then. IIRC, the game still had a working title when it was first shown...I believe at a Spaceworld event. There was definitely quite a bit of backlash on here and a LOT of skepticism and lukewarm feelings. A lot of people back then felt that Metroid couldn't work as a FPS (or in 3D in general). They were worried that the sense of speed would be lost. People were concerned that some of Samus's moves wouldn't translate to a first person view. They were wary of the whole aiming system. They were worried that the verticality and platforming that was so prevalent in the 2D Metroid games would be lost, or at least not work very well. Retro was still largely an unknown. Plus, the initial screenshots Nintendo showed just looked bad...the final build of Prime 1 looked MUCH better.
That said, the Prime 1 reveal backlash was nowhere near as strong as the "Celda" backlash, or the reaction when the Wii was unveiled. Also, while GAF was popular and active back then...it was nowhere near as active as it is now.
That said, the Prime 1 reveal backlash was nowhere near as strong as the "Celda" backlash, or the reaction when the Wii was unveiled. Also, while GAF was popular and active back then...it was nowhere near as active as it is now.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Again did people forget Retro Studios itself got retooled purely because some key members on the Prime game weren't up to snuff for Nintendo? Hell they were also working on Raven Blade which got shit canned because it was a fucking mess.
Prime 1 is an astonishing achievement because the game literally came together in the last 9 months due to a massive developer crunch at which during that time Nintendo purchased Retro stock from Spangenberg to make it a 1st party studio.
Prime 1 is an astonishing achievement because the game literally came together in the last 9 months due to a massive developer crunch at which during that time Nintendo purchased Retro stock from Spangenberg to make it a 1st party studio.
pretty bad: I remember the outrage against "OMG this first person shooter approach, Nintendo you sold your soul to the Western devils" or something like that.
Ironically, more or less at the same time I also remember the negative response to the cell-shaded Toon Link of Wind Waker ("OMG Nintendo where is my super serious Western-like uber dark rpg epic hero!")
Ironically, more or less at the same time I also remember the negative response to the cell-shaded Toon Link of Wind Waker ("OMG Nintendo where is my super serious Western-like uber dark rpg epic hero!")
The first thing that comes to my mind is the penny arcade comic saying it's gonna be horrible and the only way it could be worse is if it was a puzzle game or a dancing game.
years later they made a comic about Prime 2 being one of the best games of the year it came out. Funny how that works out.
years later they made a comic about Prime 2 being one of the best games of the year it came out. Funny how that works out.
MDSVeritas
Member
Northeasterner turned Texan here. Can confirm.
Muffdraul
Member
This. Anyone who doesn't think there were huge crushing waves of negativity from the Metroid fanbase at the time either weren't there or have very bad memories.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
I remember being skeptical until Matt C. from the nintendo IGN team praised the demo he saw/played. I believe it was the opening that he saw. Once I played that at Target, I knew Metroid Prime was something special. Now I hadn't played the previous Metroids at that time, so my judgement wasn't clouded. The forums though, I remember constant cynicism towards MP until about a week or two before release.
Windwaker I was always a fan of, the artstyle was wonderful and I loved the ocean theme. Still my favorite Zelda game to date.
Windwaker I was always a fan of, the artstyle was wonderful and I loved the ocean theme. Still my favorite Zelda game to date.
Magnet_Man
Member
I thought it looked terrible. It looked like it was going to be a nightmare to play and the Samus model looked hideous.
Then I played it at a demo station at Gamestop and was blown away at how wrong I was.
Then I played it at a demo station at Gamestop and was blown away at how wrong I was.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
You people weren't wrong. It DID look hideous. What you played in the end was light years beyond where the project was even just a year earlier.
Rran
Member
Oh man, I love looking back at these kinds of reactions. To be fair, I think it's perfectly understandable for fans of a particular series to assume the "less than ideal" when their favorite series takes a dramatic shift. But usually I'll set aside at least some benefit of the doubt that the people handling the series have some idea of what they are doing; to automatically assume the worst seems unfair given all the good faith that the series has earned to make me a fan in the first place!
But anyway, I love this exchange from your link:
...A few years ago, I was skeptical when I learned Mario and Zelda would be
> made into 3d games, and they turned out to two of the best games I've ever
> played, so if it's from Nintendo, it's possible.
response:
but the big difference is that when those games made the jump to 3D they were
still developed by Nintendo, Metroid is being made by a shitty US developer
That does not apply here. SFA started out as Dinosaur Planet on N64. Federation Force is Metroid universe from top to bottom with a gameplay twist, whereas SFA has Fox shoehorned into a completely unrelated game world. If one is going to hold these criticisms of Federation Force, you could just as easily argue that Prime was slapping an existing IP onto new, unrelated concepts (3D, FPS, autoaim, combat-heavy focus).
The Metroid fanbase are really acting like brats and seeing this in an irrational manner. It's like they don't understand that Nintendo has done their absolute best with the franchise (Primes, 2D GBA Metroids, Trilogy) and these games still don't do so well. There's a very good reason why we get regular Kirby sequels and not Metroid and F-Zero, and it's not because Nintendo hates its fans. I guess they're supposed to bankrupt themselves to keep aging niche fanbases happy.
FF is a mid-tier handheld game that if done right will probably end up appealing to a younger and much larger base than the mainline titles. I'm okay with that because this title has nothing to do with the franchise's decline in the past 10 years and will have nothing to do with the next big sequel underperforming.
Askherserenity
Member
You really trying to defend this?
You're right. I can tell how shit the game plays by that one bad screen-shot. /s
Smushroomed
Banned
I have the prime trilogy but I hate waggle controls so I never put more than a few hrs into it
basically. it never went away
I mean, there are some people who still think it's a FPS
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
It was as bad as it could get at the time, same with WW
People are saying "not as bad as Federation Force" and theyre wrong because social media wasnt nearly as big and all reaching as it is today (the visible metric is dislikes on youtube, that wasnt around back then)
People are saying "not as bad as Federation Force" and theyre wrong because social media wasnt nearly as big and all reaching as it is today (the visible metric is dislikes on youtube, that wasnt around back then)
This is a wonderful thread that puts a lot of things into perspective.
People need to remember this. While it's funny in hindsight, one of the reasons people had so little faith in Metroid Prime was because Retro genuinely had no fucking clue what it was doing when it started out.
doesn't really matter whether FF sucks or not, because I'm never going to convince my 3DS owning friend to buy it and play it with me so what's the point?
Same goes for that Zelda co-op title.
The price of admission is just too much for something that waters down the series formula.
Same goes for that Zelda co-op title.
The price of admission is just too much for something that waters down the series formula.
Walter White
Member
I remember being a bit skeptical when it was revealed and whatnot. Then I got to play it at E3 the year it was on the floor and I was fucking sold. I knew right there after that demo that it was going to be one of the greatest games ever.
LegendofLex
Member
People didn't talk about studios - at least not first-party studios - the way they do in today's era of social media, YouTube, and the like. The developers existed, but they weren't the centerpieces - the games were the focus. More people were interested in the first-person direction than the developer.
evilromero
Member
When it was discussed that it was a first-person game there was a lot of skepticism and rightfully so since Retro was very unproven.
But when they actually showed the 2002 demo at the conference it blew everyone's mind. There was no question.
But when they actually showed the 2002 demo at the conference it blew everyone's mind. There was no question.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The first reveal was actually third person and everyone hated it.
Retro was totally unproven at the time, and many felt they should have been allowed to create their own original ip (Ravenblade) and leave Metroid to the Japanese.
Retro was totally unproven at the time, and many felt they should have been allowed to create their own original ip (Ravenblade) and leave Metroid to the Japanese.
mrmickfran
Member
I didn't even know people were skeptical about it until I was introduced to the internet.
Loved Prime.
Loved Prime.
Dreamwriter
Member
All I know is, there are two things I associate with the Metroid series I enjoy: exploration and the feeling of being alone on a hostile planet. This game has neither of those, so to me it is Metroid only in name. It is a multiplayer shooter first and foremost, and in part a sports game. Hopefully there's at least some exploration that can be done, but the trailer only showed lots and lots of shooting (which the Metroid Prime games were *not* about - they had shooting but only as a means to get where you are going)
In fact, that's what I hated about Metroid Fusion, which I had expected to be far more "Metroidy" than Prime at the time (I mean, it was a 2D Metroid game made by the original Metroid team!): its crappy level-based gameplay where the exploration was mostly optional. So at its reveal, I thought Prime was going to be crap and Fusion was going to be the shit, and it turned out the complete opposite (I like Fusion now, but not as a Metroid game).
In fact, that's what I hated about Metroid Fusion, which I had expected to be far more "Metroidy" than Prime at the time (I mean, it was a 2D Metroid game made by the original Metroid team!): its crappy level-based gameplay where the exploration was mostly optional. So at its reveal, I thought Prime was going to be crap and Fusion was going to be the shit, and it turned out the complete opposite (I like Fusion now, but not as a Metroid game).
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
1. Do waypoints ruin Metroid?
2. How do you feel about Zero Mission?
Dreamwriter
Member
I liked Zero Mission except the forced maps w/waypoints. And yes, waypoints ruin Metroid, in Prime I turned those off the first time I realized I could.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
At least Prime looked like a Metroid game but in first person when it was first shown. It ended being a more faithful adaption than most had hoped when it finally released. This new game on the other hand looks nothing like a Metroid game at first glance.
Could it end being a good game? Of course, but I think fans miss a proper Metroid game.
It's like wanting a Mario game and getting Mario Tennis instead.
Could it end being a good game? Of course, but I think fans miss a proper Metroid game.
It's like wanting a Mario game and getting Mario Tennis instead.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I remember being pissed that they took the best aspects out of Super Metroid (the movement mechanics in my opinion), and dumped them in favor of the shooting mechanics. It was a pretty heavy blow to me on a personal level.
That said, I think they're great shooters, I'm still just hesitant to call them "Metroid" games. However, the one thing they kept, and expanded upon was the atmosphere. The game type changed, but the atmosphere was still the dark, creepy Metroid that I knew and loved.
This New "Metroid"? Chibi, Soccer, FPS?
Look I'm sure it'll be great, it'll play wonderfully, but this isn't Metroid. This is just not what anyone asked for, and that's why there's such backlash. The Spirit and Soul of what made Metroid special are dead to me in this spinoff.
That said, I think they're great shooters, I'm still just hesitant to call them "Metroid" games. However, the one thing they kept, and expanded upon was the atmosphere. The game type changed, but the atmosphere was still the dark, creepy Metroid that I knew and loved.
This New "Metroid"? Chibi, Soccer, FPS?
Look I'm sure it'll be great, it'll play wonderfully, but this isn't Metroid. This is just not what anyone asked for, and that's why there's such backlash. The Spirit and Soul of what made Metroid special are dead to me in this spinoff.
I don't think that term really existed back then but I know what you mean.
This. From what I saw of the gameplay the game actually looks pretty fun. Is it what I want from Metroid? No, but I wouldn't expect what I want from Metroid to appear during the probable final year of both the Wii U and 3DS.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
This is fantastic! "Not comparable" Ha!
You really trying to defend this?
What this?
Defending a screenshot, that doesn't look good?
Or defend the game itself?
I saw the game getting actually played on Treehouse and that looked really fun to me. Is that defending? I don't know. I'm definitely interested in the game. If the released game is going to be shit, I will say that. But what I definitely won't do is judge a game by its alpha/beta graphics, because that's just silly.
It was a really bad negative reaction and compound that with the Wind Waker reveal, holy shit. It was an epic meltdown that probably cemented the GC's legacy in the eyes of a lot of people.
Metroid Prime being as amazing as it ended up being was a nice consolation prize for all the stalwart defenders. Nobody thought it would be better than Fusion.
Metroid Prime being as amazing as it ended up being was a nice consolation prize for all the stalwart defenders. Nobody thought it would be better than Fusion.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I don't think this game will be bad at all. I'm sure it'll play well, I just typically viewed Metroid as one of a few anchors Nintendo had left that dabbled in the darker / more mature side of the market. Seeing them test the franchise by pushing into friendlier territory is the opposite of what I (personally) want from the big N.
I don't think too many are arguing that the game will be bad, just that it's so distant from what they love about Metroid.
I don't think I read the internet back then so I was pretty excited for it. I thought it'd be third person though, but I didn't really care.
But Fed Force? I've never said never when it comes to not buying games, but I'm saying never here. FF is the wrong game in the wrong place at the wrong time. It'd be like after so many years without an F-Zero game and Nintendo announces a Captain Falcon DDR spin-off.
But Fed Force? I've never said never when it comes to not buying games, but I'm saying never here. FF is the wrong game in the wrong place at the wrong time. It'd be like after so many years without an F-Zero game and Nintendo announces a Captain Falcon DDR spin-off.
Even up until the reviews started hitting, there was still a lot of doubt, despite the overwhelmingly positive previews it got at press events. Nintendo was really smart to have the embargo be up as early as it was, since those reviews really helped the game sell as well as it did.
Having Fusion as a backup really helped dull any potential misery that Prime sucking would have caused, but I don't think anyone had it in their minds at all that Prime would wind up being the more critically adored of the two, and especially didn't consider the possibility that Prime would cast an even bigger shadow on the series than a direct sequel to Super Metroid did.
Having Fusion as a backup really helped dull any potential misery that Prime sucking would have caused, but I don't think anyone had it in their minds at all that Prime would wind up being the more critically adored of the two, and especially didn't consider the possibility that Prime would cast an even bigger shadow on the series than a direct sequel to Super Metroid did.
aftercompletion
Banned
NeoGaf was totally ahead of the curve and knew without a doubt that this huge paradigm shift in the Metroid series would lead to both massive critical acclaim and sales!
Courtesy of Penny Arcade, late February 2001
Nice timing!
Real talk: I would play Metris.
Skellig Gra
Member
The response I remember was overwhelmingly negative. Same with Wind Waker.
Schweinehund
Member
Pretty shitty. Almost worse than Wind Waker.
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