• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

How do you guys view mouse/KB adapters for consoles and their effect on online?

Derpcrawler

Derpcrawler

Member
Today I got myself a mouse/KB adapters for console. I thought I was really good FPS player in general, since I destroyed everything playing Destiny, BF3/4 and CoD games before. I mean I have like 900 hours clocked in CoD4 which I can say I was really really good at. Also I am in top 1% leaderboard for almost all stats in BF4 on PS4 - skill, score per minute, W/L ratio, K/D ratio etc. I mean I have 3.5 W/L with 2.3K/D. I can safely say I was able to carry whole 32 player Rush games, then I started playing on PC. I've been playing CS:GO on PC actively for the last 4 months and I came a long way.

When I started playing CS:GO I understood how much higher skill cap is in that game, with me aiming at the ground, playing with high sensitivity, having poor spray control and general poor aim. Not even talking about game sense like checking corners and sticking crosshairs to corners to quickly clear them.

So few weeks ago I ordered on of mouse/KB adapters for the consoles and I played a bit of CoD: AW on Xbox One and some BF4 on PS4. Oh boy, poor opponents didn't have a chance. I dropped 57 kills in TDM in AW with 0 deaths. Then I jumped to Squad TDM in BF4 on PS4. Again zero deaths, first place with 11 kills lead over 2nd best guy in the match.

At this point I just didn't feel good about playing anymore. The advantage I had was so big that I felt bad for people I destroyed. I mean I still think I had MASSIVE improvements to my FPS skills just from playing CS so much, that I would probably see improvements even without KB and mouse, but those matches were just disgusting. Opponents literally felt weaker than Hard/Extreme bots in CS.

Anyway, what are the general view among console population about adapters that allow to play with KB/mouse on the consoles? Should games ban people for using them? At least for me it felt like cheating, I might as well had aimbot with the controller at that point.
 
D

Daingurse

Member
The mouse and keyboard is a superior input device for anything that requires aiming. It would give the user a blatant advantage over anyone playing with a gamepad. It isn't fair lol.

Edit: I played a lot of shooters on PC with a 360 controller and learned the hard way, real quick.
 
T

TomShoe

Banned
Yes, because in FPS games, having a KBM is far superior to using a gamepad. I think Xbox 360 tried this with a cross-play game, Shadowrun, and even OK KBM players were better than the best gamepad players.
 
S

Syril

Member
Dude,

61d69582-a245-4689-a509-6afede945d81_zpsd6140550.png
 
J

Jonnax

Member
I believe it's cheating and I also think those scud controllers are cheating.

Playing a console game you play under the pretense that everyone is on a level playing field.

If you're using custom crap to gain an unfair advantage that's pretty much the definition of cheating.
 
Derpcrawler

Derpcrawler

Member
Don't new consoles require special chip/certification for 3rd party peripherals? How are they releasing adapters for current gen consoles? Or does Sony/Microsoft don't give a shit about it?
 
mitch1971

mitch1971

Member
Jonnax said:
If you're using custom crap to gain an unfair advantage that's pretty much the definition of cheating.
Click to expand...

Is it cheating, though? It's as you say an advantage.

Is someone using a gaming mouse over me using a box standard mouse cheating? No, but an advantage.

Is someone using a 7.1 headset compared to my stereo headset cheating? No, they just have an advantage.
 
Derpcrawler

Derpcrawler

Member
mitch1971 said:
Is it cheating, though? It's as you say an advantage.

Is someone using a gaming mouse over me using a box standard mouse cheating? No, but an advantage.

Is someone using a 7.1 headset compared to my stereo headset cheating? No, they just have an advantage.
Click to expand...

Not to mention people having 144Hz screens vs people with 60Hz screens, or people who play at 60-120FPS vs people pushing 290FPS+ (more FPS = less input lag in CS for example). But that is for PC.

On consoles it's gray area, that's why I asked, what is the general community view on it? And seems like Sony/Micorosoft are fine with those 3rd party adapters since they certify them to be used with consoles.
 
B

brennok

Neo Member
Jonnax said:
I believe it's cheating and I also think those scud controllers are cheating.

Playing a console game you play under the pretense that everyone is on a level playing field.

If you're using custom crap to gain an unfair advantage that's pretty much the definition of cheating.
Click to expand...

Do you also count fighting sticks and wheels cheating? What about larger TVs or TVs with lower lag? What about people with better network connections and lower latency?
 
K

khnguyen

Neo Member
If you don't mind me asking...

What adapter are you using and how do you feel about the build quality and ease of use?

And to answer your own questions, I consider it an advantage to be able to use a keyboard and mouse but not to the extent that I'd call it cheating; kind of like a modified controller, or joystick in fighting games.
 
Shai-Tan

Shai-Tan

Banned
Aren't those kb/mouse adapters emulating gamepad input? They're not as effective as kb/mouse on a pc if I'm remembering correctly.
 
S

Skelter

Banned
I say go for it. Anything that helps you have more fun. Mouse + KB is too perfect for shooters. Once you go play with them you don't want to go back. It's why I play on PC. Hell, just playing something like a moba with a Mouse+KB is different compared to a console MOBA.
 
PreFire

PreFire

Member
Derpcrawler said:
Today I got myself a mouse/KB adapters for console. I thought I was really good FPS player in general, since I destroyed everything playing Destiny, BF3/4 and CoD games before. I mean I have like 900 hours clocked in CoD4 which I can say I was really really good at. Also I am in top 1% leaderboard for almost all stats in BF4 on PS4 - skill, score per minute, W/L ratio, K/D ratio etc. I mean I have 3.5 W/L with 2.3K/D. I can safely say I was able to carry whole 32 player Rush games, then I started playing on PC. I've been playing CS:GO on PC actively for the last 4 months and I came a long way.

When I started playing CS:GO I understood how much higher skill cap is in that game, with me aiming at the ground, playing with high sensitivity, having poor spray control and general poor aim. Not even talking about game sense like checking corners and sticking crosshairs to corners to quickly clear them.

So few weeks ago I ordered on of mouse/KB adapters for the consoles and I played a bit of CoD: AW on Xbox One and some BF4 on PS4. Oh boy, poor opponents didn't have a chance. I dropped 57 kills in TDM in AW with 0 deaths. Then I jumped to Squad TDM in BF4 on PS4. Again zero deaths, first place with 11 kills lead over 2nd best guy in the match.

At this point I just didn't feel good about playing anymore. The advantage I had was so big that I felt bad for people I destroyed. I mean I still think I had MASSIVE improvements to my FPS skills just from playing CS so much, that I would probably see improvements even without KB and mouse, but those matches were just disgusting. Opponents literally felt weaker than Hard/Extreme bots in CS.

Anyway, what are the general view among console population about adapters that allow to play with KB/mouse on the consoles? Should games ban people for using them? At least for me it felt like cheating, I might as well had aimbot with the controller at that point.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's cheating.
I can't aim for my life with a controller so it makes it more even.

Just curious, what adapter are you using?
 
F

fedexpeon

Banned
It is fine.
You still have to aim and be aware of your surrounding.
You can't get good because you are using a M/KB, it just adds an advantage on top of your skill level.
Beside, you aren't playing in a competitive league or in a season ranking/MMR.
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
Some of you have heard this one:

UT3 on ps3 allowed usb keyboard and mouse, and cross play with keyboard and mouse. Having never been that good at shooters with a controller, I of course plugged in a keyboard and mouse and was enjoying a scheme I was more comfortable with. I perceived a huge advantage over what where obviously clumsy controller users! People who killed me where doubtless using a mouse.

Then gaf user groovy doogles fucked me up so bad with a controller that actually had to have a think about it. I saw him do stuff that I had previously thought impossible. After that I just practiced on the controller, and having seen first hand the way someone can move and aim, I was able to make huge strides in my controller aiming. I find it enjoyable now. Moreso than a mouse, altho I game with mouse frequently. Tipping the stick on both axis accuratly is really hard and much less intuitive than mouse tho. And past a certain speed and accuracy threshold, the mouse just runs away. But I found that threshold to be surprisingly above my skill level. I can aim better with a mouse, but really just a bit.

Almost forgot moral of the story; I'm not trippin if a few people use a mouse on console.
 
AmuroChan

AmuroChan

Member
If the console makers allow KBM compatibility to be on their systems, then it's not cheating as far as I'm concerned. It's an advantage, sure, but cheating it is not. It's the same for when the X1 Elite controller comes out. It'll be an advantage over the regular X1 controller sure, but can you really call someone using the Elite a cheater when it's a Microsoft-released product?
 
Derpcrawler

Derpcrawler

Member
Shai-Tan said:
Aren't those kb/mouse adapters emulating gamepad input? They're not as effective as kb/mouse on a pc if I'm remembering correctly.
Click to expand...

It's like mouse with slight acceleration. Works best in 60FPS games like BF4 or CoD, tried it in Destiny, didn't like it due to 30FPS, but still more accurate than gamepad. Also issue with Destiny is, it has too much aim assist, sometimes you aim for one thing and aim snaps to someone/something running in between you and original target. Really annoying with the mouse.
 
J

Jest Chillin

Member
A pretty simple way to view peripherals for any platform is to consider whether or not they would be allowed in a Cash Prize tournament held by a major company.

If yes, then have at it. If no, then you're probably at the very least crossing into unsportsmanlike play using it.
 
V

void_if_removed

Neo Member
My experience of kb/mouse adapters on consoles is universally awful. I've always struggled with playing FPSs on gamepads so I've tried a couple (the last one being the FragNStein) and I've never, ever come close to the level of skill I had in eg. Quake 3 using an adapter on a console. Unless they've become orders of magnitude better in the last couple of years, my opinion is that they are slow and flaky compared to the flick precision of a PC FPS, and ultimately a dissatisfying experience.

I don't think its cheating any more than using a fightstick or a wheel/pedals/chair setup is cheating in fighting and racing games.
 
R

RPGam3r

Member
I'll be blunt. I would classify that as cheating. The general concept of console gaming is that everyone is equal footing. Same hardware, using a controller. I mean it should be obvious to you that something is wrong, as you are deatroying your opponents on top of your already high skill level.

To be honest I'm shocked a player with as much skill as you would venture it getting an advantage by some other means. Seems like it sells your skill short and makes you look bad.
 
R

RPGam3r

Member
Jest Chillin said:
A pretty simple way to view peripherals for any platform is to consider whether or not they would be allowed in a Cash Prize tournament held by a major company.

If yes, then have at it. If no, then you're probably at the very least crossing into unsportsmanlike play using it.
Click to expand...

This is a nice way to look at it. Makes it more objective for sure.
 
C

Conkerkid11

Member
Skelter said:
I say go for it. Anything that helps you have more fun. Mouse + KB is too perfect for shooters. Once you go play with them you don't want to go back. It's why I play on PC. Hell, just playing something like a moba with a Mouse+KB is different compared to a console MOBA.
Click to expand...
But playing with an accessory that literally just converts the keybindings of a controller over to a mouse and keyboard isn't the same as playing the PC version of the game.

If you're playing something like Diablo 3 on console, and try and do this, a cursor isn't going to appear out of thin air. You'll be left trying to control your character with WASD, and I'm not even sure what the right thumbstick does in Diablo 3.

There are console games that allow players to use fight pad, flight sticks, racing wheels, and even keyboard and mouse. There's a reason other console games don't allow for this. Playing a competitive online FPS with a keyboard and mouse puts you at an immediate advantage, and is comparable to various hacks that allow for auto-targeting and the like. This is the same reason these games don't allow for cross-platform play.

Edit: The entirety of this comment isn't meant to be a direct reply to you Skelter, just the overall theme I've seen in threads like these where people compare them to a fighter game pad or something and kind of just shrug it off.

Crayon said:
My interpretation of the online game experience is that there is always someone better and someone worse. It they are better thru their controller, their practice, their knowledge or natural ability matter little to me. I will always consider my rivals those players that are just out of my reach and have a good time.

If there was money on it, it would be different.
Click to expand...
Are you saying you think it's fair for another player to be better than you simply because they're using a piece of hardware that the developers didn't intend for them to be using?
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
RPGam3r said:
I'll be blunt. I would classify that as cheating. The general concept of console gaming is that everyone is equal footing. Same hardware, using a controller.
Click to expand...

My interpretation of the online game experience is that there is always someone better and someone worse. It they are better thru their controller, their practice, their knowledge or natural ability matter little to me. I will always consider my rivals those players that are just out of my reach and have a good time.

If there was money on it, it would be different.
 
R

RPGam3r

Member
Crayon said:
My interpretation of the online game experience is that there is always someone better and someone worse. It they are better thru their controller, their practice, their knowledge or natural ability matter little to me. I will always consider my rivals those players that are just out of my reach and have a good time.

If there was money on it, it would be different.
Click to expand...

The key part of that sentence was the sentence right afterwards. Being better, more knowledge, faster via natural ability are fair game and have nothing to do with the hardware or software you are using.
 
Shai-Tan

Shai-Tan

Banned
mitch1971 said:
Is it cheating, though? It's as you say an advantage.

Is someone using a gaming mouse over me using a box standard mouse cheating? No, but an advantage.

Is someone using a 7.1 headset compared to my stereo headset cheating? No, they just have an advantage.
Click to expand...

The effectiveness of gaming hardware is exaggerated. It's not drastically better than a cheap mouse if the cheap mouse isn't garbage. I've tried $8 mice that are fine. Cheap wireless mice are more likely to be shit but you can get wired ones for $30 that are just as good at tracking as the ones selling for $80.

Also positional audio should work in games even with stereo. When I turn on virtual surround sound it makes annoying reverb more than anything else.
 
G

grandwizard

Member
KB/M adapters for consoles are simply emulating mouse input to analog input as that is the only thing the game will acccept, outside of a few cases like UT3 on ps3. You still won't have the control fidelity of an absolute positioning device like a mouse, no matter how fast you move it it will be constrained by whatever the analog stick input is accepting as it's speed limit.
 
Derpcrawler

Derpcrawler

Member
Shai-Tan said:
The effectiveness of gaming hardware is exaggerated. It's not drastically better than a cheap mouse if the cheap mouse isn't garbage. I've tried $8 mice that are fine. Cheap wireless mice are more likely to be shit but you can get wired ones for $30 that are just as good at tracking as the ones selling for $80.

Also positional audio should work in games even with stereo. When I turn on virtual surround sound it makes annoying reverb more than anything else.
Click to expand...

You what mate? Cheap mice don't support 500-1000Hz polling rate. Not even speaking about sensors. At 144Hz mouse with 500Hz+ polling will have much better responsiveness than one polling at 125/250Hz. Even jumping from MOBA oritented mouse (I had Razer Naga) to FPS one (got SteelSeries Rival) made a huge difference due to different tuning of sensors.

Same with screens, 144Hz>120Hz>75Hz>60Hz, there is massive difference between 60Hz and 120Hz+.

grandwizard said:
KB/M adapters for consoles are simply emulating mouse input to analog input as that is the only thing the game will acccept, outside of a few cases like UT3 on ps3. You still won't have the control fidelity of an absolute positioning device like a mouse, no matter how fast you move it it will be constrained by whatever the analog stick input is accepting as it's speed limit.
Click to expand...

It's not a big deal, considering I got used to play at low sensitivity in CS:GO and moved from wrist aiming to arm aiming.

Honestly, AW feels almost like CS:GO but with mouse acceleration turned on. BF4 is a bit different, but still fairly respectable mouse performance.
 
N

nowai

Member
Something to remember. You are limited by the turn limit in games like Destiny. It's only emulating the analog stick, not giving you true 1 to 1 mapping.
 
A

ace22b

Member
Jonnax said:
I believe it's cheating and I also think those scud controllers are cheating.

Playing a console game you play under the pretense that everyone is on a level playing field.

If you're using custom crap to gain an unfair advantage that's pretty much the definition of cheating.
Click to expand...

Fight sticks are also cheating? How are those different?
 
Shai-Tan

Shai-Tan

Banned
Derpcrawler said:
It's like mouse with slight acceleration. Works best in 60FPS games like BF4 or CoD, tried it in Destiny, didn't like it due to 30FPS, but still more accurate than gamepad. Also issue with Destiny is, it has too much aim assist, sometimes you aim for one thing and aim snaps to someone/something running in between you and original target. Really annoying with the mouse.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I don't know until I've tried it but one of the big advantages of mouse/kb is the combination of fast camera movement and fine aim. If it behaves like a mouse with acceleration your fine aim might be better than analog sticks but wouldn't be able to drag shoot like you can when movement of the cursor is fixed speed. It may still potentially be an unfair advantage but I wanted to point out that it isn't exactly equivalent to using a mouse/kb on pc.
 
Derpcrawler

Derpcrawler

Member
Stinkles said:
Get a mechanical keyboard braj
Click to expand...

Already am, Corsair K65. Been using mech KB since 5 years ago.

Shai-Tan said:
Interesting. I don't know until I've tried it but one of the big advantages of mouse/kb is the combination of fast camera movement and fine aim. If it behaves like a mouse with acceleration your fine aim might be better than analog sticks but wouldn't be able to drag shoot like you can when movement of the cursor is fixed speed. It may still potentially be an unfair advantage but I wanted to point out that it isn't exactly equivalent to using a mouse/kb on pc.
Click to expand...

Well, not exactly, but pretty close. Due to nature of dead zone on analogue sticks. Still, you get used to it's "weirdness" in 30-60 mins and don't notice after. And as I said, works better with 60FPS games, CoD works the best IMO.
 
J

JamboGT

Member
I would say for those comparing this with wheels and arcade sticks, those games that use those are developed and balanced around that, console shooters are not balanced for mkb. Personally I think it is a huge advantage
 
O

OldAsUrSock

Banned
Keyboard and mouse is on the same level as fighting sticks and racing wheels(for simulators). It is the correct way to play the genre.
 
Derpcrawler

Derpcrawler

Member
Stinkles said:
Get a mechanical keyboard braj
Click to expand...

Since you are from 343 (at least I think so), how do console devs treat players with KBM? If say I got reported in Halo MCC while using KBM, would it inflict any kind of penalty?

Simple theoretical question, since even if I wanted to try, matchmaking just plain out doesn't work for me here in Asia.
Not even joking, when you finally find game after ages of waiting, it's always US hosts
 
T

TylerDurden4321

Member
OldAsUrSock said:
Keyboard and mouse is on the same level as fighting sticks and racing wheels(for simulators). It is the correct way to play the genre.
Click to expand...

Well said!
I think all would be fine if it just were possible to distinguish between m/kb users and people on a gamepad. Then add the option to filter matches and leaderboard if you want an even playing field. Most racing games show the input method/aids on leaderboards for that reason.

Edit:
David___ said:
Fight sticks dont give you an inherent advantage like kb/m does.
Click to expand...
Looking at Evo this year, I'd say it depends on the game and is pretty small in the games where it's an advantage. Same goes for racing games, lots of people drive worse lap times with a wheel even in sims.
 
O

OldAsUrSock

Banned
TylerDurden4321 said:
Well said!
I think all would be fine if it just were possible to distinguish between m/kb users and people on a gamepad. Then add the option to filter matches and leaderboard if you want an even playing field. Most racing games show the input method/aids on leaderboards for that reason.
Click to expand...

I agree with you completely. Just a little mouse icon next to the username to indicate a mouse or a gamepad if using a gamepad. Mario Kart Wii did those on the leaderboards and I remember a few other racing games did as well. Though a wheel doesn't really matter that much in Mario Kart unlike Forza.
 
P

PsionBolt

Member
This is why they invented MMR, yeah? If using a mouse (or an arcade pad, or a DDR pad -- who am I to judge) improves your performance by a ton, that shouldn't affect me at all, because you won't be playing against my sad 40% winrate self. Assuming we're playing a game with competent matchmaking, of course, because if a game doesn't have competent matchmaking I'm not playing it online anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

PCMR to console, how do you adapt?
Social 2
93
2K
S0ULZB0URNE replied
  • Locked
How The Last of Us became 'the greatest story' ever told in video games
Opinion Analysis 2 3 4 5
203
17K
Elysium44 replied
Defaulting to crossplay between console and PC is a mistake (COD Warzone)
Opinion Clickbait 2
72
11K
Psykodad replied
Everything wrong with Halo Infinite: (Spoilers) THERE'S A LOT WRONG!
Opinion 2 3 4
194
13K
solidus12 replied
  • Locked
$299 Xbox Series console will help give Xbox victory next gen. Sony already shook and reacting accordingly.
9
1K
Phrixotrichus replied
Top Bottom