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I wish games with combat weren't so focused on combat
- Thread starter VanWinkle
- Start date
Skellig Gra
Member
I certainly could have used less combat in Bioshock Infinite.
Memorabilia
Member
I can sympathize with the OP. I've been playing thru Binary Domain since yesterday (trying to clear up some of my PS+ backlog before I let my sub expire in October). Its a solid cover shooter with surprisingly decent to good writing/acting. The combat is fun at times with only a couple moments of frustration/bad design so far. But the biggest problem I have with it so far is its getting soooo repetitive. Maybe I wouldn't feel this way if I wasn't attempting to play the whole campaign thru start to finish in a couple days. But I can't help but feel like the cool RPG lite & interactive hub sections were a missed opportunity to do something with more depth & offer something with a little more meat to it in order to break up the monotony.
Overall fun game though so I probably shouldn't complain too much. Pretty good for a PS+ "game rental". But it could have been something more perhaps.
Overall fun game though so I probably shouldn't complain too much. Pretty good for a PS+ "game rental". But it could have been something more perhaps.
Deadpool_X
Banned
I wish that platformers would focus less on platforming.
(Not that I don't enjoy combat but) Combat has been used as a crutch for RPG's ever since they were translated from pen and paper to the TV screen and until devs can program an AI that can simulate a Dungeon Master then single player games will always have that problem.
I'm mostly a SP gamer nowadays but I'd guess that MMOs with a strong crafting system / economy & Meta like Eve Online are the best gaming can do atm, although this new trend of asymmetrical MP and player content creation like with Project Spark and Fable Legends are a step in the right direction.
I'm mostly a SP gamer nowadays but I'd guess that MMOs with a strong crafting system / economy & Meta like Eve Online are the best gaming can do atm, although this new trend of asymmetrical MP and player content creation like with Project Spark and Fable Legends are a step in the right direction.
I thought it was obvious I wasn't talking about combat-only games like Bayonetta and Binary Domain, but I guess not.
It was a major problem in Witcher 3 for me. The combat just isn't fun (imo) and it takes far longer to cut through enemies to just get on with it than an Elder Scrolls game. I respect that they tried to make something involved, but it's tough to compete in this arena when many are staring at a Soul game on their shelf. The game would be a lot more fun if Geralt was an unstoppable badass from beginning to end and they dial back the use of Witcher sense by about 90%.
I think that's an unfair characterization of the OP's point. The OP isn't suggesting that games have no combat, but that they have more substance outside of combat.
Think of it as combat being sugar and story being steak. Sure sugar tastes good but it gets old and you start to hunger for something more filling after a while. Sugar is cheap and easy to add in, however, while steak is expensive and resource intensive. It's much easier to dump some more sugar in, and let's face it - people enjoy the taste. But too much leaves you feeling sick and wishing for something more.
Even the best combat systems need to mix it up with something more, and that results in a much more satisfying overall experience.
MrRudiMentary
Member
People say that combat focus is there for a reason but that's not true. They sell Call of Duty and Uncharted with their crazy setpieces. They sell Skyrim and Fallout with the settings and exploration. The Ubisoft open World formula is made up of mini games and tower climbing, not necessarily combat.
I'm replaying Oblivion right now and I always groan when a quest sends me to a dungeon. But on the other hand Oblivion does combat so much better than Skyrim because combat is only half the quests in Oblivion. The thieves guild and dark brotherhood questlines in Oblivion are mostly sneaking based, taking advantage of the routine AI of the NPCs, with the odd dungeon thrown in. In Skyrim the everything from the main quests to the civil war quests to the bloody bard's guild quests take place in yet another draugr ruin.
I wish more games would understand that not only can compelling gameplay be made out of more than just combat, but that that can be the main gameplay too. The most fun bits of Uncharted are the set pieces and the puzzles and the fist fights, not the gunfights. TLoU had better combat because it was less focused on straight gunplay. I used the Charm Ring and Moogle Charm a whole bunch in FFVI recently because fuck doing so many random encounters. I always used to run from fights even when I played Pokémon as a kid.
I'm replaying Oblivion right now and I always groan when a quest sends me to a dungeon. But on the other hand Oblivion does combat so much better than Skyrim because combat is only half the quests in Oblivion. The thieves guild and dark brotherhood questlines in Oblivion are mostly sneaking based, taking advantage of the routine AI of the NPCs, with the odd dungeon thrown in. In Skyrim the everything from the main quests to the civil war quests to the bloody bard's guild quests take place in yet another draugr ruin.
I wish more games would understand that not only can compelling gameplay be made out of more than just combat, but that that can be the main gameplay too. The most fun bits of Uncharted are the set pieces and the puzzles and the fist fights, not the gunfights. TLoU had better combat because it was less focused on straight gunplay. I used the Charm Ring and Moogle Charm a whole bunch in FFVI recently because fuck doing so many random encounters. I always used to run from fights even when I played Pokémon as a kid.
Zxrophantom
Member
Combat is flavored greatly when it comes to what sells, so most games will have a far chuck of it. I also think you have to sort of know the game you are playing to prepare yourself. For example, i feel borderlands falls more into a shooter than it does anything else. So its not much you can do about the amount of combat in that. I feel more pure open world games/ adventure games fair a bit better given that more of your time is spent exploring or solving puzzles vs killing stuff. I don't know how you get around combat focused games aside from bumping it down to easy or " here for story" mode. Given that most would be playing for the combat in those games. Fallout sort of hits that sweet spot of just the right about of combat and open world exploring.
Much as I like combat heavy character action games I do agree that like to see less of a combat focus in some other games. I look at horror games now and they usually are either full action shooters or completely powerless hiding/stealth games. What I really want is the middle ground between the two as either gets old on its own. I loved the original Resident Evil mostly because I got to explore a creepy mansion. It was nice to shoot things also but it wasn't the only thing the game focused on. If you took the shooting completely out I'd probably miss it, take the exploration out and I have no interest at all anymore.
Also see Tomb Raider. In the original the focus was entirely on exploring with the shooting just being there on occasion as a change of pace. Now the roles have switched.
A balance is the key and I feel many go too far with the combat focus when they don't have some best in class mechanics to justify it.
Also see Tomb Raider. In the original the focus was entirely on exploring with the shooting just being there on occasion as a change of pace. Now the roles have switched.
A balance is the key and I feel many go too far with the combat focus when they don't have some best in class mechanics to justify it.
Wow. I feel the opposite, I think story and exploration are a huge focus to the detriment of combat. At least in adventure types of games.
I think a lot of developers just aren't good at making real games and cover it up with story and big boring open worlds and they call it exploration.
I think a lot of developers just aren't good at making real games and cover it up with story and big boring open worlds and they call it exploration.
345triangle
Member
uncharted's combat is fine but it's still the worst part of the game, and yet the pacing leans on it 10x too heavily.
Well, the thing with Borderlands 2 at least is it is a FPS, it just has some RPG elements. So seeing as it is an FPS, that's pretty much what you are going to be doing.
There needs to be more action RPGs, and ones that aren't focused on combat. This is one thing I find Bethesda does better than any other action RPG I've tried (I haven't tried any EA ones cause I swore off EA games after they ruined Sim City). But even they could do a little better I think.
Other than them, I don't know if I've seen any action RPGs that don't focus mostly on combat. Now, if you don't mind turn based, I think you might find more luck with those RPGs, or at least the ones more inspired by D&D games (Seeing as they are more based off D&D games and not just being RPG cause they are fantasy games).
There needs to be more action RPGs, and ones that aren't focused on combat. This is one thing I find Bethesda does better than any other action RPG I've tried (I haven't tried any EA ones cause I swore off EA games after they ruined Sim City). But even they could do a little better I think.
Other than them, I don't know if I've seen any action RPGs that don't focus mostly on combat. Now, if you don't mind turn based, I think you might find more luck with those RPGs, or at least the ones more inspired by D&D games (Seeing as they are more based off D&D games and not just being RPG cause they are fantasy games).
Trigonometrize.
Member
I disagree with your game design philosophies. Focused game design is an absolute virtue, I don't want a little of everything that isn't building off one central idea.
A greater problem is the combat flat out sucking.
A greater problem is the combat flat out sucking.
Focusing on a central idea is great, but for me that idea doesn't necessarily have to be a gameplay element. A game can just as well build it's gameplay elements around a narrative or desired atmosphere. That makes a game with a lot of different mechanics which hopefully build up to a greater whole.
A lot of RPG's are like that, and here's the part where I agree with OP: I also think that many games where combat isn't the main focus could do with a lot less of it. There are so many games I can play if I want to shoot people and I wish that these games that seem to try something different would give us more of it. Tomb Raider has been brought up and I thought that the island was a great setting, but instead of giving ample space to take it in and do a lot of platforming it they were constantly throwing distracting shoot outs at you. And that's a game where the combat at least was pretty decent on it's own. The less said about the combat in Mass Effect, the better, and the same goes for Alpha Protocol. Both of these games had some elements that were pretty interesting, but getting to these interesting parts always meant slogging through a lot of bland gunfire (or bland stealth depending on how you play AP). Well, AP actually had some missions that changed up the formula and ho, they were indeed great! If creative missions like those had been the default and shooting the exception, gunfights probably would have been a lot more interesting when they occurred instead of feeling like filler.
Oh, and it should go without saying but I do like a good, focused action game too. I wouldn't want every game to be like that though.
Platforming as a side-dish mechanic is shit, puzzle-solving is most often designed not to be truly puzzling (it's just there) and exploration hardly counts as exploration in a constructed environment.
What you really want OP is better combat. Shooting the numbers out of walking things just isn't that entertaining.
What you really want OP is better combat. Shooting the numbers out of walking things just isn't that entertaining.
Same. The gaming industry's ideology is basically that "combat === gameplay" and it makes no sense to me. My life has very little combat in it, so why should I expect to feel immersed in a game world where anytime one experiences 3 minutes of non-combat, it always foretells an imminent combat encounter.
Easily my least favorite part of gaming, especially AAA gaming. Part of why I loved Shenmue 1 & 2 was that combat only represented 10-15% of the games. Modern AAA games are just lousy with repetitive hallways designed for dull combat encounters.
Every time I walk somewhere in a game with boxes or upturned desks my wife sarcastically shouts "bad guy time!" So predictable.
Easily my least favorite part of gaming, especially AAA gaming. Part of why I loved Shenmue 1 & 2 was that combat only represented 10-15% of the games. Modern AAA games are just lousy with repetitive hallways designed for dull combat encounters.
Every time I walk somewhere in a game with boxes or upturned desks my wife sarcastically shouts "bad guy time!" So predictable.
Moon_frogger
Member
Well, they would have been much, much shorter. That or more uninspired climbing 'puzzles'.
They would have all been much better if they'd been much shorter.
But even more than that, what if Naughty Dog had imagined non-combat scenarios for Drake to deal with? Patch up a boat, hunt down a rival, research an artifact. The game series has literally none of that but very well could.
Exactly. When I think puzzle-solving and exploration possibilities in Uncharted, I don't want more of the shallow elements that are there right now . Those elements can be fleshed out in such interesting ways, that could make you feel like an actual treasure hunter in this world, but instead 80+% of the gameplay goes towards shooting.
i think that too, but then i play games without combat and they have a high chance of being VERY boring.
i wish all games had an option to avoid combat, or attack non-letally. I think every game should legally have to have a stun-gun as an option. killing so many people is just weird.
also, i love combat against non-human npc's.
i wish all games had an option to avoid combat, or attack non-letally. I think every game should legally have to have a stun-gun as an option. killing so many people is just weird.
also, i love combat against non-human npc's.
Naked Lunch
Member
Halo would be really cool if there were entire levels of just exploration and that beautiful music. Mix in some Metroid Prime like scans of things and you're set. It seems there is a scan-like thing in Halo 5. Well see how the levels are paced.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
it's pretty much 100%. The "platforming" doesn't count as gameplay when the game does it for you.
I kinda disagree though. You have to implement those things without making them feel like time wasters, which is a challenge. Gameplay wise, that stuff amounts to fetch quests. The only way to spice those up? Put guys to shoot in the way, with a bigger guy protecting the thing you need lol
halo 5 will be packed to the brim with combat
Benzychenz
Member
I think Zelda games generally have a good balance. Combat regularly takes a backseat to puzzles and exploration.
I do wish more games were like that though and I 100% agree with you.
I do wish more games were like that though and I 100% agree with you.
nailbombxx
Member
The problem is there's plenty of games where combat is a big portion of the gameplay but the combat isn't even that good, but because there are other things in the game to pay attention to, they are okay with the lame combat being a vehicle of progress. There are few games out there that dedicate themselves to making the combat systems a real selling point, and when they are successful they become cult classics.
An rpg without combat or even a main villain wouldn't dare work in todays main stream market. It would be labeled as the game where nothing happens (even though its very story focused).
NavyPharaoh
Member
Personally I had to let go of my favorite game world that I've ever experienced in the Witcher 3, because of combat.
Most of the story & quests involving walking here with a character or turning on Witcher sense. I know a lot of us hate not having control but id rather games get to the point. Give me a cutscene & get me from point A to point B quicker.
This is moreso my problem than the game but GTA, I don't have time to drive for 10 minutes real time. Witcher I don't have time to walk for 10 minutes until there's another cutscene then another walk.
Funny thing is I didn't realize y I wasn't enjoying the Witcher as much as I should. It has monsters, great story telling, upgrades... Then I bought Ethan carter & realized traversal means a lot to me In open world games. it becomes filler all this traveling in game. Larger worlds, 100 hour games that u spend 30 of it traveling.