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Women as Reward - Tropes vs Women in Video Games
- Thread starter ElNarez
- Start date
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Garrett Hawke
Member
I'm watching this atm and it's almost heartening to see that most of the modern games are Japanese, with much fewer modern Western games. Obviously the 90s and early 2000s were really bad on both sides but I love that post 2000 there are very few modern Western games.
Corronchilejano
Member
Is the color scheme darker?
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
Yay, a new episode 
It's been a while.
It's been a while.Anton Sugar
Member
"There are so many women-as-reward style easter eggs in the Metal Gear Solid series that it would take several hours to go over them all."
Sounds about right.
Sounds about right.
chaobreaker
Member
Oh good. I was just wondering when we'll see another TvW video.
Sigh, thanks for the reminder on the eve of being excited for a Metal Gear game again (
well, to be honest, I've had the game since Friday
Sounds more accurate.
I can sort of give this trope more leeway in really old games since it's just a really superficial "motivation" for the gameplay. But when I see it still being employed in newer games with more pronounced and "serious" narratives it's pretty much garuanteed to be very cringeworthy and devalue the experience for me.
I wonder if we're even going to have that many shitposts in this thread given the recent purges.
I wonder if we're even going to have that many shitposts in this thread given the recent purges.
She spoils that Samus is a girl in the very first 90 seconds of the video. Beware.
benicillin
Banned
Yeah I don't really think that there is anything that could be disagreed with when it comes to this trope and her explanation of it. At least it's nice to see that a lot of examples were from older games and I feel like most games are better about it nowadays.
Corronchilejano
Member
She goes for broke this time, going into much greater detail than before.
Anton Sugar
Member
Great video and even does a great explanation of what male entitlement is, which will hopefully curb incoming "but in MGS, men are sexualized, too!!!" posts.
Yeah, this might be my favorite of her videos because of this.
There are actually a lot of examples from the past five years, which is pretty embarrassing.
Yeah, this might be my favorite of her videos because of this.
There are actually a lot of examples from the past five years, which is pretty embarrassing.
Palette Swap
Member
Speaking of which, TPP has this achievement:
(no idea if this obliquely refers to a particular character or just a generic female POW)
djplaeskool
Member
I expect Cruisin' USA to be mentioned.
Nice a new one!
I don't know what I'll enjoy more...
the vid or the reactions....
I know I have the bingo card ready!
(I really don't)
OT : Seriously this is one of the tropes I won't mind if it's jettisoned in outer space.
I usually don't like rewards that are not gameplay though.
I don't know what I'll enjoy more...
the vid or the reactions....
I know I have the bingo card ready!
(I really don't)
OT : Seriously this is one of the tropes I won't mind if it's jettisoned in outer space.
I usually don't like rewards that are not gameplay though.
Anton Sugar
Member
Damn, some of my favorite series got in this video.
But there's no denying it.
Yup, basically.
But again, she says that she is examining aspects of games that are otherwise enjoyable/you may like. It's possible to recognize problematic aspects of them without condemning the game, as a whole, though it can certainly color your view of it.
Hoping CDPR grows up a little for Cyberpunk 2077 :-| I don't think Kojima will ever grow up, for better or worse, haha.
sixteen-bit
Member
Thx for the heads up. Will watch.
I sort of wish she would spend less time on sort of tertiary and menial examples, and more time on breaking down the idea of women's personal actions and affections being the result of male success. That really describes the idea of the "nice guy" to a tee, and sheds a light on why a lot of young men have this predefined notion that they can gain physical affection from simply completing tasks set out by women. There's a more interesting conversation to be had there, one that's very real and that guys should pay attention to.
Edit: It's sad that we have to explain codes because it's been so long since games have actively utilized them.
Edit: It's sad that we have to explain codes because it's been so long since games have actively utilized them.
NormalFish
Banned
Can't watch now, but does she go over why specifically this trope is damaging? Usually I agree with her about tropes being bad but this one has always struck me as relatively docile.
Skiptastic
Member
Enjoyable so far (halfway through). Even if I were to disagree with the points made (I don't), I enjoy the analysis and learning about games I've never played.
Anton Sugar
Member
It's a literal manifestation of treating women like objects and/or conquests, not as human beings. The video itself covers women being used as rewards via:
Cinematics
Easter Eggs
Unlockable Costumes
Experience Points
Collectibles
Achievements
She goes into a very detailed breakdown of male entitlement and how it motivates these game design decisions AND potentially shapes our world views.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I've disagreed with examples and some of the points she has made in the past, but this video is aight. Like folks said, hard to disagree with this point. It's pretty much an issue facing a lot of media too though, not just games.
Lostconfused
Member
Kind of selective there with the Resident Evil example.
Lot of shots across the bow towards Japanese developers in this one.
But I suppose that make sense.
Not really. Yes, the guys also have equally as crazy costumes, but it doesn't change the fact that 90% of the unlockable outfits for women in...most capcom titles...are straight up cheesecake. Hell, remember what they did to Jill in RE5? "CATSUITS ARE NOW THE NORM! Because wesker is a creep?"
But I suppose that make sense.
Not really. Yes, the guys also have equally as crazy costumes, but it doesn't change the fact that 90% of the unlockable outfits for women in...most capcom titles...are straight up cheesecake. Hell, remember what they did to Jill in RE5? "CATSUITS ARE NOW THE NORM! Because wesker is a creep?"
Quadraphonic
Member
I remember at E3 they gave out trading cards with the ladies on them.
let's fucking go
Lol wat.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Witcher is a very sexual fantasy novel series and they are developing games to a very niche audience. They've gotten much better since Witcher 1. Sex sells in this market. At least in Witcher 3 there are repercussions for trying to mess with both of the lead ladies. It doesn't excuse it sure but to say they haven't grown up is unfair.
Lostconfused
Member
That's not the point though. She chooses to ignore examples that would not support the point she is making and pretends that they don't exist.
Haunted
Member
Good. The only way we're going to see positive change in that area is if they are taken to task repeatedly and frequently.
Because they wouldn't apply. But would it really destroy her point if she used, let's say, the 3rd birthday or Lightning Returns and said, "90% of these unlockable outfits are all cheesecake, but there's one that looks really nice and is respectable,"? She's right on this one.
I don't think she's right about Alice Begins using the bunnygirl trope correctly because that game isn't using the bunnygirl trope at all. It's a costume that's similar to another character in the game. It's not used in the sexualized fetishist sense that you see in japan at all. It's a poor example.
That's not going to happen as long as the only people who are criticizing them are people who are well outside their own culture.
Japan is a tough thing because there is some real culture clash as related to what's acceptable and what isn't.
Silver Arrows
Banned
Ohhhh fuck, yeah I remember that.
Dice//
Banned
In general, while it's "still bad" it's gotten a LOT better. A lot of the ridiculous is usually called out and more are vocal about it being ridiculous..... well here anyways, but go on somewhere like Gamefaqs...and it's like the redneck gamers come out again.
Anton Sugar
Member
I'm well aware--I've played all the Witcher games. I never said they haven't grown up, but they still have a ways to go.
Lostconfused
Member
So it's ok to just pretend that they just don't exist?
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