[Shouta]

2. ditch the low brow / childish humor unless the game actually calls for it. playing growlanser 2 and hearing some of hans' combat lines made me groan every time, it was almost embarassing to play with the sound on sometimes. thankfullly hugh is much more tolerable in 3, thank GOD you didnt give him a "southern" accent (as that type of accent is often localized)

Yeah, Han was the only thing I didn't like about the work on Growlanser. Hugh was done much better and the actor totally nailed the character.

[Christopher]

I'm sure many of you purists prefer more literal translations that are closer to matching every nuance of the game, but well, I don't. I even have a basic grasp of many items of Japanese culture and can get where a translated game is coming from more often than most people, but it doesn't really make the game more enjoyable for it. Culture affects everything down to the motivations behind charachter actions that can be major plot points in the story--this is one of the many reasons localization is so difficult. As such I'm not sure why people are considering WD completely rewriting minor charachters a BAD thing; it sounds like it improved the game quite a bit and I'm glad they did it. My point is this: for you purists out there there are plenty of thinly-translated games that are plenty Japaneseu out there for you to play, and that's fine. Others of us prefer a more complete reworking of the game, and that's fine too. I believe there's room for both, and I do feel something is missing from the market since Sony kicked WD's projects to the curb, and I really hope that Victor's new project does well, as I hope to see another Lunar-style game this generation.

Oh my word this post is brilliant.

[pancakesandsex]

Yeah, Han was the only thing I didn't like about the work on Growlanser. Hugh was done much better and the actor totally nailed the character.

IIRC Hugh was played by vic actually

[Shouta]

IIRC Hugh was played by vic actually

I believe it was John Haas that did Hugh unless that's a pseudonym that Vic goes by.

[pancakesandsex]

lets let vic answer, cmon vic we know you're watching this !


edit nope shouta you were right, dont know where i heard that but oops

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Outside of Silhouette Mirage I can't say I've had too many bad experiences with WD. Okay well the bad jokes too..and I never liked the Lunar games in the first place(YEAH I SAID IT).

Although I could have done without reading "Sucking Diek" in the Arc The Lad Trilogy manual(Love the games though even if though I may not finish part 2 in this lifetime.) Glad you're not bothered by some of the trolling going on in this thread.

Also whoever trashed Goemon deserves to be dumped off a bridge. The four Super Famicom games were excellent and I remember having a blast with the two N64 games. Granted I heard Goemon PS2 wasn't so hot but I would have bought it anyway I'm sure.

I know workingdesigns.com is down but do you still have any of the old content? Namely the two reader reviews a one by the name of Gabriel Jones wrote? I kind of have a soft spot for them and I never bothered to back up my work.

Alright I'm done ass-kissing. If you're really intent on localizing X360 games start with Bullet Witch. Hell go ahead and add some gameplay changes cause I mean with Cavia it can't get any worse right? :D

[Tellaerin]

Not to be rude, but who made you the expert on what a good localization is? (This is NeoGAF so you may ACTUALLY be an expert so in that case, by all means! :D)

As I said earlier, a 'free adaptation' that's loosely based on a translated script but takes tons of liberties with the material can be entertaining. That's not the issue. It falls down as a localization because it fails to convey the creators' intent faithfully - whether or not the final product is enjoyable in its own right is a separate question altogether.

Coming at it from a creative standpoint, I know that I'd prefer my vision to be communicated to audiences as faithfully as possible, even if my works have to pass through the hands of an intermediary first. Going out of your way to put your own stamp on others' work and declare the result an improvement seems a bit arrogant, not to mention a slap in the face to the original creators. So I think it's partially an issue of respect as well.

To be honest, I think I'd rather see collaborative ventures between Mr. Ireland and his writing staff and a Japanese code shop (no, not TOSE :p ) to create original RPG's in the 'Working Designs style', possibly for a platform like the DS that's relatively inexpensive to develop for. This way, WD fans get games with the trademark dialogue they crave without other creators' works being subjected to gratuitous changes.

[vireland]

2. ditch the low brow / childish humor unless the game actually calls for it. playing growlanser 2 and hearing some of hans' combat lines made me groan every time, it was almost embarassing to play with the sound on sometimes. thankfullly hugh is much more tolerable in 3, thank GOD you didnt give him a "southern" accent (as that type of accent is often localized)

We DID give you a command to selectively MUTE a single character at a time in battle, so you could keep the ones you liked, and can the ones you didn't. Hans is a polarizing character, you love him or you hate him. He was more infantile in the Japanese version, I thought.

[vireland]

IIRC Hugh was played by vic actually

God no! Hugh was the super-talented John Haas (also did Kyle in LUNAR, amongst others). We spent a little time developing the cadence and attitude and then he let loose. I *loved* that character. There were some good scenes that he MADE great because of his performance.

I despise doing any kind of voice stuff myself. If I've done it (and I have on occasion), it's always as a last-minute fill-in for some tiny bit part I missed in casting or something like that.

[CO_Andy]

IIRC Hugh was played by vic actually

:lol Have you actually heard his voice?

[vireland]

Also whoever trashed Goemon deserves to be dumped off a bridge. The four Super Famicom games were excellent and I remember having a blast with the two N64 games. Granted I heard Goemon PS2 wasn't so hot but I would have bought it anyway I'm sure.

Lots of the stupid button choices/weird flow was fixed in the US version. It would have sold just fine, especially with Goemon/Sasuke/Yae/Ebisumaru plushies as the preorder premium. Only a few US magazines we chose to show it to saw the English version that was quite far along and fully playable beginning to end (though the English was still rough in a number of areas).

[Shouta]

We DID give you a command to selectively MUTE a single character at a time in battle, so you could keep the ones you liked, and can the ones you didn't. Hans is a polarizing character, you love him or you hate him. He was more infantile in the Japanese version, I thought.

Individual muting for certain characters needs to be standard in all RPGs with Voice acting.

[pancakesandsex]

We DID give you a command to selectively MUTE a single character at a time in battle, so you could keep the ones you liked, and can the ones you didn't. Hans is a polarizing character, you love him or you hate him. He was more infantile in the Japanese version, I thought.

it was just an example, and it really wasnt ALL his lines, he was just the one with the most cringeworthy ones....... (a tisket a tasket..... etc)

that being said, i adore both games, pre-ordered the LE. Need to finish 3 sometime though.


complaints aside, i would have loved to see what you would have done with tippi from grow1 / the grow4 faries :lol

[pancakesandsex]

:lol Have you actually heard his voice?

guess not! i thought i read it somewhere, way off apparently :P

[CloudV]

A few comments.

I was a fan of WD way way back in the day. Even posted occasionally on WD's board. One of the reason's I bought a sega-cd was to play lunar, and even picked up Vay as well based on the fact it was from WD alone. I made it a fact to rebuy the luna sets for the ps, and play a lot of the games just because they were from WD, and at that time, only WD gave you the quality that was seen as deluxe in the states, but atarimae (completely normal) in Japan.

Come PS2 though, Sony's anti-RPG/2D policy was fairly famous, and when you stop to think about it, I guess we were lucky to get games like Persona, and Suikoden before FF7 dropped and changed things.

Now though, RPG's are now a standard genre, niche games are normal, I go back to the States to visit (living in Japan for over 2 years now) and am amazed now at what's available. I can't believe they released this here, or that here, and my friends just laugh.

The point is, it's a crowded market, and a lot of the quality games, standard big names, and niche titles are being brought over. I wish luck to Vic in his new investment, and am in a way jealous, I'd love to break into the localization field (not that I've not applied to SE, Capcom, and what not over here, but I digress). The problem I think is that the market, is like I said, crowded, and a lot more companies are picking up, localizing their own and game and releasing them in the states. I think it's going to be a long haul, and I'd hate to see Vic have to call it quits a second time. Personally, I think it comes down to system and software, but that would make the post longer, so I'll refrain.

Lastly, the name.

As someone who's studied Japanese for 5 years, now lived in Japan for over three years, I... cringe.

It's not a racial slur in the sense that it targets any specific ethnicity, it's more of a word that targets anyone that isn't Japanese. You'll hear gaikokujin as the polite word, and gaijin and the normally used word. I use it myself, jokingly, ah, gaijin da! and my japanese friend will tsukomi me, omae datte gaijin da! and we laugh and whatnot.

But not everyone feels that way.

The best way I can explain it, is back in college, a lot of my international friends, were labeled as "resident alien" the word alien really made a lot of them feel bad, japanese, european, etc. They understand the meaning behind it, but being labeled an "alien" was not a good feeling to them. To me, I don't mind being labeled a gaikokujin, or resident alien, but being labeled a gaijin, or alien, depending on context of usage is very disturbing at times.

While not a racial slur, it's not a word that makes everyone laugh either. It'll get people to sit up and notice here, but the reaction, from people who are not close friends, may not be so good.


That said, it's pretty obvious the name is set in stone, and so we'll just have to sit and see what happens.

Unfortunately, I'm in Japan, so I probably won't see any of the new software since I just play the originals now. ^_^

Good luck to you Vic, and if you need staff in Japan and are hiring, I'll be one of the first to send my resume (はい、自慢しちゃってごめんなさいｗ）

[Greenpanda]

But.....don' tthere have to be games on the X360 to import?

Anyone picked up Trusty Bell yet?

[duckroll]

Anyone picked up Trusty Bell yet?

...........

It's published by Bandai Namco Games. :P

[ZeromusMog]

As I said earlier, a 'free adaptation' that's loosely based on a translated script but takes tons of liberties with the material can be entertaining. That's not the issue. It falls down as a localization because it fails to convey the creators' intent faithfully - whether or not the final product is enjoyable in its own right is a separate question altogether. Coming at it from a creative standpoint, I know that I'd prefer my vision to be communicated to audiences as faithfully as possible, even if my works have to pass through the hands of an intermediary first. Going out of your way to put your own stamp on others' work and declare the result an improvement seems a bit arrogant, not to mention a slap in the face to the original creators. So I think it's partially an issue of respect as well. To be honest, I think I'd rather see collaborative ventures between Mr. Ireland and his writing staff and a Japanese code shop (no, not TOSE :p ) to create original RPG's in the 'Working Designs style', possibly for a platform like the DS that's relatively inexpensive to develop for. This way, WD fans get games with the trademark dialogue they crave without other creators' works being subjected to gratuitous changes.

While I see your point, I don't think this applies in all situations. If I ever make a moderately successful video game and a company wants to take the source and turn it into a Takeshi's Secret Castle kind of deal for Japananese audiences, by all means! Just cut me a royalty check. :) I'd personally want my creation to be enjoyed by its audience the most, and if that is best achieved by someone else putting their signature all over my game--so be it. (And to clarify: I mean basically what WD did, not taking credit for my work.)

I understand some people would want their work to remain "pure" but personally, I'd want to be enjoyed the most. And I'd want it to sell more. As such, if I was a Japanese gamemaker I'd be happy to let Working Designs do the localization.

And anyone can save this wherever and should I ever achieve my dream of starting a publishing house these words can be used against me should some Japanese company want to creatively localize anything we produce. :)

[Roland Stiles]

Vic your adaption of Lunar SSS and EB were brilliant.

Zach Meston wrote Lunar:SSSSSSSC and Lunar:EBC. You need to stop giving Vic credit, and he needs to stop taking it.

[ronito]

I hope for their own good Vic and Gaijinworks can finally break free of the nineties and join us in the present. I know we've missed out on a lot of great games in the years past but an 8 year old game is going to play like, well, an 8 year old game. Put me in the tentatively hopeful side.

[Greenpanda]

........... It's published by Bandai Namco Games. :P

oh :(

I didn't know, sorry :(

[SatelliteOfLove]

Ireland + GAF = fun thread, guarenteed. :D

I hope for their own good Vic and Gaijinworks can finally break free of the nineties and join us in the present. I know we've missed out on a lot of great games in the years past but an 8 year old game is going to play like, well, an 8 year old game. Put me in the tentatively hopeful side.

In an era where each and every R&D1 game is turned over within months of debuting, and even the infamous FF3 seeing the light of day on these shores, 7 year-old also-rans won't cut it. Even failing to land the big fish would be better than settling on small fry in 2006.

[vireland]

Zach Meston wrote Lunar:SSSSSSSC and Lunar:EBC. You need to stop giving Vic credit, and he needs to stop taking it.

Ask Zach if he wrote the bulk of the text in LUNAR:SSSC and EBC. If he tells you yes, he's lying.

[Shard]

Ireland + GAF = fun thread, guarenteed. :D In an era where each and every R&D1 game is turned over within months of debuting, and even the infamous FF3 seeing the light of day on these shores, 7 year-old also-rans won't cut it. Even failing to land the big fish would be better than settling on small fry in 2006.

Or 2010 for that matter.

[jarrod]

How viable would SegaCD releases be on the Virtual Console? I dunno what your relationship's like with GameArts or SEGA/Falcom these days, but I'm sure plenty of fans would be interested.

[Angelcurio]

The only thing i really wish is that someone STOP Agetec of doing localizations. Their localization of Wild Arms Alter Code F was a blasphemy, full of bugs, no voice acting, delayed by whole year. Jisus Craist.

Hey Victor, who developed the original Alundra game for PS1? that game was really good, it was like the Zelda for Playstation. Too bad tey never made other Alundra games besides Alundra 2.

PS: Someone needs to port Castlevania Rondo of Blood (PC engine) to the psp. That game would rock hard.

[pancakesandsex]

The only thing i really wish is that someone STOP Agetec of doing localizations. Their localization of Wild Arms Alter Code F was a blasphemy, full of bugs, no voice acting, delayed by whole year. Jisus Craist. Hey Victor, who developed the original Alundra game for PS1? that game was really good, it was like the Zelda for Playstation. Too bad tey never made other Alundra games besides Alundra 2. PS: Someone needs to port Castlevania Rondo of Blood (PC engine) to the psp. That game would rock hard.

Alter code F wasnt supposed to have voice acting, Wild arms 4th detonator was the 1st wild arms to have voices

[Jonnyboy117]

When I saw that shitty PS2 Goemon game at WD's booth at E3 around 2001 or so, I knew it was over for the company. I sure did enjoy Lunar: SSSC though.

[MoxManiac]

Alter code F wasnt supposed to have voice acting, Wild arms 4th detonator was the 1st wild arms to have voices

I'm pretty sure Alter Code F had voices in the JP version (at least in battle)

[Angelcurio]

Alter code F wasnt supposed to have voice acting, Wild arms 4th detonator was the 1st wild arms to have voices

Even though the Japanese version of WA:AF didnt have full voice acting, the characters used to say things in battle. Just search for some videos of the Japanese version, and you will see that even Rudy had a voice. In the localized version, the characters loosed their vocal chords during the flight to this continent.

[ethelred]

Even though the Japanese version of WA:AF didnt have full voice acting, the characters used to say things in battle. Just search for some videos of the Japanese version, and you will see that even Rudy had a voice. In the localized version, the characters loosed their vocal chords during the flight to this continent.

Don't forget that in the Japanese version, the Funeral March song was fully vocalized by Kaori Asoh, the series' main singer (did the vocal songs for the prior games as well as the Alone the World vocal album). Agetec stripped her out of the US song completely.

[pancakesandsex]

Even though the Japanese version of WA:AF didnt have full voice acting, the characters used to say things in battle. Just search for some videos of the Japanese version, and you will see that even Rudy had a voice. In the localized version, the characters loosed their vocal chords during the flight to this continent.

Played a few hours of the jp version before selling it off cuz i didnt like it, guess i never noticed!

[Angelcurio]

Don't forget that in the Japanese version, the Funeral March song was fully vocalized by Kaori Asoh, the series' main singer (did the vocal songs for the prior games as well as the Alone the World vocal album). Agetec stripped her out of the US song completely.

Yeah, i just forgot that. When i saw that part of the game in the localized version, after hearing the song it was too obvious that the japanese song was vocalized.

BTW, Alone the World is an excellent vocal album.

[jluedtke]

Working Designs holds a special place in my memory for their Turbografx/Duo work. I played my first RPG (Cosmic Fantasy 2) because of them, and I still play Parasol Stars on a weekly basis.

Whether you have problems with their translations or not, WD was a niche publisher that brought over stuff that wouldn't otherwise have seen the light of day over here, and for that I respect them. In a world of EAs, Activisions, 2Ks, etc., it's good to have little guys putting out these sorts of titles.

[lobdale]

I would just like to say to Vic, or whoever had the brilliant idea, that the hidden Lords of Lunar game on the SSSC Making Of disc was the pimpest shit ever.

[Ranger X]

To all the haters here, you should be thankfull someone is dedicated to bring over some games you wouldn't play most probably. I'm all favorable for the more diverse gaming we can get and without guys like Vic, the industry would be alot more boring.

If you don't like Jrpgs i don't know why you post here. Just to hate 'cause it's fun i guess. Very immature. You may as well shut the **** up or not post here. tks.

[levious]

vic,

Try to bring over Star Soldier for PSP, I don't want to have to pay 50+ for the import version.

[jarrod]

Hey Victor, who developed the original Alundra game for PS1? that game was really good, it was like the Zelda for Playstation. Too bad tey never made other Alundra games besides Alundra 2.

Matrix Software developed Alundra and co-developed Alundra 2 (with Contrail, who was an internal Sony team). Alundra 2 was originally intended to be a different game entirely, but Sony forced the Alundra branding on it.

Alundra's spiritual successor was Matrix's Dual Hearts on PS2 (which Atlus USA brought over). These days Matrix doesn't do too much sadly besides making cellphone games or working as subcontracted grunts for Chunsoft. :/

vic, Try to bring over Star Soldier for PSP, I don't want to have to pay 50+ for the import version.

Does it have enough "extra content" beyond the GC/PS2 versions to pass SCEA?

[Angelcurio]

Matrix Software developed Alundra and co-developed Alundra 2 (with Contrail, who was an internal Sony team). Alundra 2 was originally intended to be a different game entirely, but Sony forced the Alundra branding on it. Alundra's spiritual successor was Matrix's Dual Hearts on PS2 (which Atlus USA brought over). These days Matrix doesn't do too much sadly besides making cellphone games or working as subcontracted grunts for Chunsoft. :/ Does it have enough "extra content" beyond the GC/PS2 versions to pass SCEA?

Didnt know that. It makes a lot of sense now, i never understood why the game was branded Alundra, when not even the main character was called Alundra. That also explains why the game changed from 2D to 3D, and why the first one was so serious and the second one was like a fun movie.

If my memory serves me right, contrail was the one that co-developed wild arms, right? or at least localized it?

If Matrix's Dual Hearts was the spiritual succesor of Alunda, i will have to check it out.

[drohne]

Also whoever trashed Goemon deserves to be dumped off a bridge. The four Super Famicom games were excellent and I remember having a blast with the two N64 games. Granted I heard Goemon PS2 wasn't so hot but I would have bought it anyway I'm sure.

word. i haven't heard many good things about that ps2 goemon, but i'd buy it out of goemon fandom. the first n64 goemon is awfully primitive, but it remains fun. any chance of gaijinworks resurrecting the project, perhaps for european release? i suppose not. :/

[Dave Long]

Not sure why a company making games for the American market should be all that worried about their name using a word that's a little off-color in Japan? Especially when it pretty much appropriately describes what it is they're going to deliver to American videogame fans who know and use the word.

I suppose if you live in Japan, it might seem awkward, but it's not like there aren't things about Japan that are awkward to us here in the US, and they're selling the games here, not there.

So, yeah... non-event and descriptive name.

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Can we all agree that alot of good stuff from japan doesnt get localized for no good reason at times and really bad stuff does get localized to the US anyways despite the obvious? Thank you.

[ethelred]

Can we all agree that alot of good stuff from japan doesnt get localized for no good reason at times and really bad stuff does get localized to the US anyways despite the obvious? Thank you.

You bumped a thread from three days ago just to share that shining pearl of wisdom?

[Joe Molotov]

Can we all agree that alot of good stuff from japan doesnt get localized for no good reason at times and really bad stuff does get localized to the US anyways despite the obvious? Thank you.

No, thank you.

[Tellaerin]

Not sure why a company making games for the American market should be all that worried about their name using a word that's a little off-color in Japan? Especially when it pretty much appropriately describes what it is they're going to deliver to American videogame fans who know and use the word. I suppose if you live in Japan, it might seem awkward, but it's not like there aren't things about Japan that are awkward to us here in the US, and they're selling the games here, not there. So, yeah... non-event and descriptive name.

Except that this company's not 'making games for the American market' at all. They're going to be negotiating with Japanese companies for the right to localize and distribute their products in North America, as I understand it. Knowingly choosing a name for your company that has negative overtones among the people you're trying to court probably isn't the brightest idea in the world.

[Roland Stiles]

Not sure why a company making games for the American market should be all that worried about their name using a word that's a little off-color in Japan? Especially when it pretty much appropriately describes what it is they're going to deliver to American videogame fans who know and use the word. I suppose if you live in Japan, it might seem awkward, but it's not like there aren't things about Japan that are awkward to us here in the US, and they're selling the games here, not there. So, yeah... non-event and descriptive name.

If you worked for an American corporation dealing with foreign companies and a Japanese guy called up and said "Hello, I'm calling on behalf of n***er soft" or "Have you heard of Honkeysoft?"

You would not listen to a word he said after that. And...they probably won't listen to Vic either.

[The Take Out Bandit]

Hay you guys - localize Remote Control Dandy SF and I'll give you money for it.

That is all. Thank you.

[duckroll]

Let's not waste this bump! Today I will recommend a few games on the PSP that will be right down Vic Ireland's alley! Dispite how I might feel about WD's poor business practices and Vic's overzealous attitude on newsgroups and message boards, these games would be the perfect chance to use the skills he has shown to possess from localizing both Lunar games and the Arc the Lad series.

Candidate #1: Far East of Eden: The Fourth Apocalypse

Great adaptation of the Saturn original, remastered anime FMVs, tons of voice, there are some load times but they're better than the Saturn version so it's very forgivable. They even added a new opening animation for the PSP version, as well as bonus areas at the end including a few new characters and bosses - all fully voiced.

The game is totally 2D and looks awesome on the handheld, aside from some minor ghosting. The battles look excellent with huge full screen sprite enemies with animated attacks. The music is great and the script is loaded with humor. If there was a run button added to the game, it would be even better!

Another reason why other companies might not pick this up is because there are quite a few songs in the game, both for dramatic purposes as well as for plot purposes with characters singing them. These songs are crucial to the game and the only person who has shown to be able to dub songs in anime-style games well has been WD, for better or for worse.

Official Site: http://tengai.jp/pc/tengaidai4


Candidate #2: Gurumin

This cute and adorable 3D celshaded action adventure game should be right down Vic's alley. Featuring extremely cute designs as well as really good level design and action packed gameplay it would appeal to most of the action rpg crowd.

Not to mention, it's a Falcom game, so that's certified quality right there. Falcom handled this port themselves so it doesn't suffer from strange technical and artistic problems like the previous ports. The game also features an excellent soundtrack from Falcom's internal JDK sound team!

Official Site: http://www.falcom.co.jp/gurumin_psp/


Candidate #3: Legend of Heroes Miracle of the Sky FC (First Chapter)

The PC original reminded me of what a Lunar game might look like if Game Arts had continued the series with today's technology. Nice 2D sprite characters on lush 3D backgrounds filled with charm and character. The battles reminded me of Lunar quite a bit, with the mix of strategy with traditional RPG gameplay.

It might be wise to wait how the port turns out first, but with Falcom handling it, it should be fine. They're adding stuff to the game as well, like a monster dictionary, full voice acting, clear data to keep playing after you've beaten the game, as well as "hard" and "nightmare" difficulties for those familiar with the game already.

Official Site: http://www.falcom.co.jp/sorafc_psp/index.html

[the year 20XX]

We DID give you a command to selectively MUTE a single character at a time in battle, so you could keep the ones you liked, and can the ones you didn't.

You deserve an award. Holy shit. Someone give this man an award.

[Joe Molotov]

If you worked for an American corporation dealing with foreign companies and a Japanese guy called up and said "Hello, I'm calling on behalf of n***er soft" or "Have you heard of Honkeysoft?"

For that to work, it would have have to Japanese people working for JapSoft.