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RTTP: The Pokemon. All 721 of them, and counting.

They had a thing for gender related bug gimmicks in Gen VI haha.

It's a good thing neither Wormadam or Vespiquen are good Pokemon, or they would have been annoyingly hard to breed for.
 
Vespiquen is/was a beast in the TCG.

The TCG has the most bizarre good Pokemon. Vespiquen, Joltik, Shiftry, Seismitoad, Manectric.

And Pokemon like Groudon nobody uses, while Shiftry is a broken mess and banned from standard rules. Upside down bizarro land Pokemon.

I always get the TCG news, due to my brother playing the TCG competitively. I even went to a tournament with him once, and it was kind of fun to watch. These guys take this card game, very seriously.
 

Boogiepop

Member
The TCG definitely does sometimes end up with some interesting Pokemon in important roles. Like, Pyroar was a huge wall against the EX stuff that runs rampant (and those are also why I really don't like the way the game is nowadays), and not super long ago there was an Accelgor you could make a crazy deck around that would just keep paralyzing your opponent and lock them down. And going back to when I was playing, a Luxray was the "broken" card (the Lv X one that everyone used), and there was a Donphan that was important for its ability to donk. And hell, wasn't the original powerful card back at the beginning Blastoise, who kind of hasn't often been too great in the games?

Edit: Gets weird with subsets too. Like, when I was playing the TCG online the only really viable way to play without pouring money into it was the theme deck format, and it was actually primarily a Lapras that straight up broke that (it was good deck in general, but the Lapras in particular could just ramp up the energy and then sweep unopposed).
 

Toxi

Banned
The TCG definitely does sometimes end up with some interesting Pokemon in important roles. Like, Pyroar was a huge wall against the EX stuff that runs rampant (and those are also why I really don't like the way the game is nowadays), and not super long ago there was an Accelgor you could make a crazy deck around that would just keep paralyzing your opponent and lock them down. And going back to when I was playing, a Luxray was the "broken" card (the Lv X one that everyone used), and there was a Donphan that was important for its ability to donk. And hell, wasn't the original powerful card back at the beginning Blastoise, who kind of hasn't often been too great in the games?

Edit: Gets weird with subsets too. Like, when I was playing the TCG online the only really viable way to play without pouring money into it was the theme deck format, and it was actually primarily a Lapras that straight up broke that (it was good deck in general, but the Lapras in particular could just ramp up the energy and then sweep unopposed).
I have no idea why the TCG developers love Pokemon EX so much. They're horrible game design that obsoletes most of the interesting Pokemon and it's not fun at all when the best attackers are giant basic Pokemon with 180+ hp that do 90+damage with little requirement.
 
If you think the power creep in the games is bad, you haven't seen power creep the likes of which the TCG has had.

My brother laughs at my base set cards with how pathetic they are these days. The best base set cards can be one shot killed by even the most mundane EX these days.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
If you think the power creep in the games is bad, you haven't seen power creep the likes of which the TCG has had.

My brother laughs at my base set cards with how pathetic they are these days. The best base set cards can be one shot killed by even the most mundane EX these days.

I was playing the free online TCG for a while and after a bit the only matchmaking I did was for the precon format because I was just so sick of seeing "turn 1 PokemonEX that sweeps everything I put out while I try and mount a defense" followed by like two more EX on the bench
 

Hollycat

Member
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His father must be mercenary Tao
 
I think the power creep was dialed a bit back from the SP mons when HGSS came out.

Gen IV has a lot of single evolution lines that would greatly benefit from a second evolution, some examples off the top of my head are:

Wormadam/Mothim
Purugly
Toxicroak
Skunktank
Floatzel
Lopunny (RIP)
Lumineon
Cherrim
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
At first I didn't think much of Shieldon as I played Diamond so he wasn't in my game and in Platinum I didn't use a fossil Pokémon on my team but after reading Pokémon Adventure and seeing Diamond catching a Shieldon on his team I was like, huh Shieldon is pretty cute.

So I plan to use Shieldon on my Sinnoh remake team...yes I plan that far ahead. -_-;

Later Ash got a chance to fight Bastiodon, and after a long and grueling battle his Gliscor managed to prove itself by wearing it down with Fire Fang, winning Ash the match.

That was an awesome battle and really showed just how amazing Gliscor is.

Is there precedent since Gen II for them reshuffling the resistances?

Yeah Steel lost their ghost and dark resistance in gen 6.

Rock should not be weak to Fighting,

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Nah they got that spot on.

Half the time I think Water is the best type purely because of Scald. But the type in general is extremely powerful. Only two not very common weaknesses, good stab moves along with generally at least also having ice moves, rain in general, and often having pretty good stats overall.

Yeah Water type are amazing in-game and in the Meta-game, which is why I always have one on my team.

Before I start writing up this next one we're all in agreement the next family is Sinnoh's worst, right?

Feel the Burm

NEVER!!!!! All of Sinnoh Pokémon are amazing and awesome.

Gen IV has a lot of single evolution lines that would greatly benefit from a second evolution, some examples off the top of my head are:

Wormadam/Mothim
Purugly
Toxicroak
Skunktank
Floatzel
Lopunny (RIP)
Lumineon
Cherrim

Agreed, I was pissed off when Lopunny got a mega instead of a new evolution.

I do hope that cross gen-evolution aren't gone forever, they were one of the things that I loved about Pokémon. :(
 
Bastiodon is one of my favourite Sinnoh mons cursed to never be used because even in game it's a humongous turd.
But I just can't deny fort face and his big ol' nose.

I see we've avoided pointing out that Shieldon is basically a Helmasaur from A Link to the Past, it could use a branching evo for this guy.
 
Bastiodon is one of my favourite Sinnoh mons cursed to never be used because even in game it's a humongous turd.
But I just can't deny fort face and his big ol' nose.

I see we've avoided pointing out that Shieldon is basically a Helmasaur from A Link to the Past, it could use a branching evo for this guy.

that's heatran
 
Is it possible to reboot card games or are they forever trapped in a perpetual power creep cycle?

Every year they rotate old cards out as new cards are added.

Last year they rotated the last Black/White set out, so all the cards legal right now are from X/Y and OR/AS.

I believe the first few X/Y sets are due to be rotated out later this year.

So reboots are entirely possible, it just takes a few years of rotating cards out. Cards get reprinted as well, which allows them to still be used. Even some Base Set cards are still legal due to this.
 

Black_Red

Member
Bastiodon is one of my favourite Sinnoh mons cursed to never be used because even in game it's a humongous turd.
But I just can't deny fort face and his big ol' nose.

I see we've avoided pointing out that Shieldon is basically a Helmasaur from A Link to the Past, it could use a branching evo for this guy.

I think Heatran is closer to that

 
I think it's supposed to be a dinosaur mixed with liquid metal. Although maybe it's a bug, given it crawls around on walls and learns Bug Bite.

I'm pretty sure the red parts are supposed to look like they're glowing (those random orange blobs) and are actually melted metal.

Also Heatran shouldn't even be counted as a legend. It has more in common with Snorlax or Sudowoodo than it does a proper legend.
 

Kinsei

Banned
I think it's supposed to be a dinosaur mixed with liquid metal. Although maybe it's a bug, given it crawls around on walls and learns Bug Bite.

I'm pretty sure the red parts are supposed to look like they're glowing (those random orange blobs) and are actually melted metal.

Also Heatran shouldn't even be counted as a legend. It has more in common with Snorlax or Sudowoodo than it does a proper legend.

I agree, and it's certainly not like Sinnoh was hurting for legendaries and they needed to pad the number out.
 

Toxi

Banned
I'm still not entirely sure what I'm looking at with Heatran, it's like a partly armoured quadruped turd.
Heatran's not really supposed to be based on a specific animal. It's just monstrous personification of heat/pressure/lava.

Think Graveler or Gigalith, but for volcanoes.
 
There needs to be more moves like Freeze Dry. Anyways Ramphardoes and Shieldon both never appealed to me but it did wow me when I found out their stats for that single category. Maybe a Mega would make the single stat even more broken lol.

Also speaking of typing and weakness, still believe Poison should be super effective vs Water or to each other. Because water can get fucked up by chemical poisoning but water can also wash away poisoning. Just a thought I had.
 

Ezalc

Member
There needs to be more moves like Freeze Dry. Anyways Ramphardoes and Shieldon both never appealed to me but it did wow me when I found out their stats for that single category. Maybe a Mega would make the single stat even more broken lol.

Also speaking of typing and weakness, still believe Poison should be super effective vs Water or to each other. Because water can get fucked up by chemical poisoning but water can also wash away poisoning. Just a thought I had.

Said the same thing a while back, poison also needs some buffs:

-Move called corrosion that is super effective against steel since acid was already taken.
-Poison attacks that inflict paralyze and burn.
-Psychic should not be super effective against poison, this makes no sense.
 

Azuran

Banned
Said the same thing a while back, poison also needs some buffs:

-Move called corrosion that is super effective against steel since acid was already taken.
-Poison attacks that inflict paralyze and burn.
-Psychic should not be super effective against poison, this makes no sense.

It may not make sense but that just makes Psychic even worse than it is now if you remove one of its strengths.
 

Ezalc

Member
It may not make sense but that just makes Psychic even worse than it is now if you remove one of its strengths.

I'm sure there's something else psychic can be good against instead of poison, like steel or something. Psychics bend spoons, there's steel spoons right? There you go.
 

Toxi

Banned
I'm sure there's something else psychic can be good against instead of poison, like steel or something. Psychics bend spoons, there's steel spoons right? There you go.
Poison doesn't really need that buff. Poison is a good type defensively; its problems come from

  • Being a terrible type offensively
  • Generally low stat layouts for Poison type Pokemon. The highest non-Mega non-Arceus Poison type base stat total is Crobat at 535.
 
Last week I put up a pile of Wurmple all named "BurmySandrs" on Wonder Trade (I was too lazy to actually catch Burmy to do it). I just was messing around with silly nicknames. Probably sent out half a dozen "NEOGAF" Zigzagoons as well.

Got a female Japanese Protean Froakie out it, so that worked out I guess.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
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#412 - Burmy
Bug

I remember when Burmy and its evolutions were first revealed---well, Burmy was thought to be a Baby Pineco by some---but it looked at first as if they were the new three-stage early Bug Pokemon of Sinnoh. In reality, Burmy is a pretty interesting "gimmick" Pokemon with some clever ideas overshadowed by the fact that it absolutely sucks otherwise and is extremely frustrating to obtain in Sinnoh due to being locked behind the annoying Honey Tree mechanic, though thankfully it isn't as rare as Munchlax in that regard. I dare you to find a single person who used this line in the adventure---I bet you it's impossible---and it was one of the last Pokemon I obtained from Sinnoh through the GTS since I didn't wanna even mess with Honey in the first place. It's also rather frustrating to use because it's somewhat like a cocoon Pokemon---completely lacking in moves, especially in Diamond and Pearl where it didn't even get Bug Bite like it does now---but unlike Metapod, Kakuna, and Silcoon/Cascoon you're stuck with it till Level 20, and by the time it evolves it's already outclassed. There's basically no niche for it whatsoever, though if you wanna be iconoclastic and give the line a shot, it's made into a normal encounter in XY and thus more readily available for use.

Generation IV isn't as gimmicky as Generation III, but there are still a handful of gimmicky Pokemon and Burmy is one of the most gimmicky Pokemon to have ever gimmicked with two gimmicky traits. First, there's its Cloak Change gimmick. You see, like Pineco, Burmy is a bagworm, though in this case we actually get to see the worm instead of it being completely obscured, and like a bagworm it creates a protective case out of various materials. Normally, Burmy encases itself in leaves---Plant Cloak---though it has two other Cloaks as well, the Sandy Cloak where it covers itself in dirt and sand and the Trash Cloak where it covers itself in Owens Corning insulation. Depending on where Burmy last battled, it will switch to a different Cloak. If it battles in the grass (or any non-specific area), it stays as the Plant Cloak. If it battles in a cave, on the beach, or fought a Pokemon in a Honey Tree, it switches to the Sandy Cloak. And if it battles within a building, it changes to the Trash Cloak. This only occurs if it physically enters the battle, so if you wish to keep it in one Cloak while still levelling it up, the Exp. Share is your friend. Now, nothing changes about Burmy based on its Cloak other than its physical appearance but it does factor into its second gimmick, gender-based evolution. If you have a male Burmy, then what Cloak it's in is meaningless, but for female Burmy the current Cloak changes what Type it ends up as post-evolution: Bug/Grass, Bug/Ground, or Bug/Steel.

The Plant Cloak Burmy is the only one to appear in the show, though we also got to see what it looked like without a Cloak---"Naked Burmy", if you will. One of the neat features about Diamond and Pearl were the "Tag Trainers", five NPC characters who'd briefly join you at various points in the adventure and fight alongside you, an element first seen in Emerald when you teamed up with Steven to take down Team Magma. Of these, the only plot-required one was Cheryl who you teamed up with in Eterna Forest, and in the show she journeyed with Ash and co. for a couple of episodes in order to discover the honey "Amber Castle". In order to do this, Cheryl needed to obtain a male Burmy and evolve it, and she managed to catch a Burmy easily enough. However, Burmy was a lot like Paras from the "Problem with Paras", an extremely weak Pokemon who proved to be quite difficult to train. Leave it to Team Rocket though, who managed to get it to evolve after kidnapping it. You know, if you think about it, Team Rocket is ultimately responsible for solving every COTD's problem more or less.

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#413 - Wormadam
Bug/Grass (Plant Cloak)
Bug/Ground (Sandy Cloak)
Bug/Steel (Trash Cloak)

At Level 20, female Burmy will evolve into the beautiful and independent Wormadam. But it's not that simple---there are three variants of Wormadam, and the one you obtain depends on the Cloak Burmy was wearing upon evolving. There's the Bug/Grass Plant Cloak, the Bug/Ground Sandy Cloak, and the Bug/Steel Trash Cloak. Each one shares the same Ability, Anticipation, but have their own stat distributions---though they all focus mainly of defense---and learnset, for example while they all share Confusion they exclusively learn Razor Leaf, Rock Blast, and Mirror Shot respectively. Unlike Burmy, Wormadam is stuck in the Cloak for the rest of its life so before evolving Burmy, think carefully about which one you want. But in all seriousness, neither one of them are all that good. Plant Cloak, for example, has a very poor Type and none of the utility that Parasect does. Trash Cloak is completely outclassed by Forretress, mechanically and thematically. And while Sandy Cloak has the honor of being the only fully-evolved Bug/Ground Pokemon due to Nincada losing that Type upon evolution, it really has nothing going for it either. You might be able to get a bit of use out of it in the adventure, if you're patient enough to get a Burmy in the first place, but I'll be honest and say there's no point in these Pokemon other than getting the full-set to display in a "Living PokeDex".

Wormadam as you'll notice doesn't look that different from Burmy, besides the addition of a more full-bodied feminine figure (nobody finds this hot, hopefully), and that's because in certain species of bagworms such as the evergreen bagworm, the female never leaves the cocoon and basically becomes a living shell---it has no eyes, legs, wings, nor can it eat, it only exists for the male to mate with it. Afterwards it dies with thousands of eggs still within it, which soon hatch and rip out from her body. Biologically, Wormadam is a pretty neat Pokemon but otherwise it's pretty bland, and probably has very few fans, if any. While the female gets sort of the raw deal here all things considered---basically becoming a lifeless baby-making machine---Game Freak makes it up when it comes to our next Bug-type Pokemon, where it's the male who gets fucked over. Yay for gender equality, I guess?

In the show, Cheryl had a set of all three Wormadam. They did nothing of use though other than cheer for Burmy, and were basically used to showcase how she had failed to find a male Burmy. Later in Diamond and Pearl Dawn's rival Ursula used a Sandy Cloak Wormadam in the Appeals Round of a Pokemon Contest, using a combination of Confusion, Rock Blast, and Sandstorm to create a giant statue of itself to impress the judges, putting Ursula through to the Battle Round.

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#414 - Mothim
Bug/Flying

At Level 20, male Burmy evolve into Mothim. Mothim has nothing unique about it whatsoever, it lacks a gimmick and is basically yet another Bug/Flying Pokemon. To be fair, though, Mothim could've been a pretty decent Pokemon for the adventure as both its Attack and Special Attack are pretty high, and it has a rather great and varied learnset that borrows the best elements of previous early-game Bug Pokemon, though unfortunately its middling Speed and its frailty hold it back. It also lacks focus, meaning old standards such as Butterfree and Venomoth outclass it for the most part. All in all, this makes Mothim an extremely dull and forgettable Pokemon, arguably I'd say he's Sinnoh's absolute lowest low. Possibly one of the lowest lows in the entire series, with nothing unique about him whatsoever. When even Masquerain is more notable than you are, you know you're in trouble.

Mothim is a male moth, as in "moth him"---a Moth Man, if you will. While the female bagworm basically stays within the casing and never fully develops, the male on the other hand metamorphoses into more or less a regular moth, though its only role is to live for a bit and impregnate the female and then die. By Generation IV everyone was tired of moth Pokemon, they still are probably, and poor Mothim really has nothing to set him apart from previous moth Pokemon, though I will say I found his Generation IV sprite to actually be rather aesthetically pleasing and I like its autumn color-scheme, but other than that this Pokemon is legitimately pretty terrible, and usually I'm into the more off-kilter ones. I'd still choose Mothim over Wormadam though.

Cheryl's male Burmy eventually evolved into Mothin after a Team Rocket attack, and due to its love of honey it was able to lead the gang to the legendary Amber Castle, defending them from both Team Rocket and the violent bee Pokemon who attempted to block their progress. And now you can forget this line exists as we move onto our next Bug-type Pokemon line...
 

Toxi

Banned
Wormadam as you'll notice doesn't look that different from Burmy, besides the addition of a more full-bodied feminine figure (nobody finds this hot, hopefully), and that's because in certain species of bagworms such as the evergreen bagworm, the female never leaves the cocoon and basically becomes a living shell---it has no eyes, legs, wings, nor can it eat, it only exists for the male to mate with it. Afterwards it dies with thousands of eggs still within it, which soon hatch and rip out from her body.
Damn, that's pretty metal.
 

WarAdept

Member
Possibly one of the lowest lows in the entire series, with nothing unique about him whatsoever. When even Masquerain is more notable than you are, you know you're in trouble.

Coming from someone who is currently playing Gen 4 right now as the only generation I haven't played, this line (particularly it's Evolutions) is the worst. I wasn't aware Mothim or Wormadam was even a thing until D/P, as it's not enough of a joke Pokemon to use for fun online or for Wonder Trades. It's so bad, that I've been shielded from it's existence throughout the entirety of Gen V and VI.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
I kinda like this line, at least design wise. I was always curious why there's a split evolution for male and females of this species, now I know.
 
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