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Stop Making Me be The Chosen Jesus with a Huge Dick in RPGs (Spoilers for Everything)

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
I don't believe your character's stupidly tragic backstory for a second:
This this this, and not just in videogames, why can't a character be serious/dark/whatever without a random tragic past? It's so painful.

I usually don't care about the story(but i appreciate the good ones) because i play videogames to "play" them, i don't care if the main character is good, bad, the center of the universe or an average dude, but i really can't stand the random tragic past.
 

Molemitts

Member
I find the chosen one thing pretty annoying and uncreative, too.

Dark Souls is a great subversion of the "chosen one" trope. In the beginning Oscar tells you of the prophecy of a chosen undead, who will escapes the asylum and rings the bells of awakening. Then as you progress some characters characters praise how you're the chosen one who will succeed Lord Gwyn.

Kinda spoilers, I guess? It's mostly lore.
Accept, you're not really chosen you're just one of many undead who happened to be good enough to ring the bells of awakening. The prophecy of the undead was likely created by the gods to extend their power for a while longer.
 

Braag

Member
This is something I've been complaining about for a while now to my friends and they generally seem to agree with me.
Biggest offenders of this seem to be most JRPGs where the main character is usually destined to save the universe.
Also Bioware games love to make the player's character a shining beacon that is the only hope for the world and all these other people want to join him/her.
Bethesda games usually fall into this same category, you're either The Nerevarine, The Champion of Cyrodiil or Dragonborn which are all saviors of tamriel one way or another. Fallout 3 also made the PC super important with the whole project purity stuff though to a lesser extent.

It gets a little tiring, especially if RPGs are your favorite genre and you play them a lot. Eventually it feels like you're always playing some sort of hero destined to save the world.
 

MikeyB

Member
Video games rarely have the depth to get this right (I think Planescape: Torment and Morrowind did), but a lot of them run along the archetypal myth story. Hero with a Thousand Faces and all that.

7cb2a6d6da95186cddeb2701838eb769.jpg

Play XCOM. You're the director, but your soldiers sure aren't anything special. Now that I think of it, the first Diablo did what you're looking for extremely well. Sure, you're going to kill the host of the Lord of Terror, but you're an adventurer rather than Nephalem and you have no special ability to resist the shard.
 

SomTervo

Member
The Secret World does a fantastic job of (constantly) reminding you that despite how powerful you are, in the grand scheme of things, you ain't shit.

Such a Lovecraftian idea.

I loved this ins Call of Cthulhu: The Dark Corners of the Earth, too.

Is The Secret World any good?
 

Hypron

Member
The STALKER games are pretty good about letting you feel like an anonymous scavenger.

Yeah. Those games are literally the opposite of all of those games where you need to save the world. Especially in the very first one, where you realise at the end that the quest you were given at the beginning and that you've been following since then consisted of finding and killing...
yourself. Because of a bug in your brainwashing IIRC.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
Tales of Symphonia kinda had an interesting twist on this.

First, the main protagonist isn't the Chosen One set to save the world, but someone in the party is. For a good chunk of the game, the main protagonist is just there to escort the Chosen One to wherever she needs to go.

But then about 1/4 into the game, it's revealed the Chosen One isn't "Chosen" to save the world at all, but rather to be used as a vessel to resurrect someone's dead sister because he never got over her death.

That same guy was also trying to erase racism by turning everyone into lifeless objects.
 

vaibhavp

Member
i agree with you. recently playing fable lost chapters on pc.

whereever i go, i get recognised and honoured. mostly i find it cringe worthy.
 

Renekton

Member
In my ideal RPG, Geralt is what an endgame player-character should look like.
Yeesh.

Ungodly handsome, Caucasian, mutation only gives sexy cat eyes, scars in the right places, enough grunge to look manly-rugged but not hobo, answers to no one, respected and feared by everybody, every girl wants to have sex with him, can get away with being gruff and snarky to everyone, extremely hypercompetent, great plot armor, has a hidden softer side, teammates defer judgement to him except for that spunky kid aww.

Geralt has the power and circumstances to change the world, but none of the responsibilities because he is the cool lone ranger who has no time for your petty politics. Even Batman is haunted by his own actions and you can see the weight affecting his decisions (such as holding Tim back). Not Geralt, not even for Ciri because her rebelliousness offers a convenient mitigation for consequences under his charge. Thus Geralt is the ultimate young male power fantasy.
 

Karl Hawk

Banned
Yeesh.

Ungodly handsome, Caucasian, mutation only gives sexy cat eyes, scars in the right places, enough grunge to look manly-rugged but not hobo, answers to no one, respected and feared by everybody, every girl wants to have sex with him, can get away with being gruff and snarky to everyone, extremely hypercompetent, great plot armor, has a hidden softer side, teammates defer judgement to him except for that spunky kid aww.

That's a fucking huge generalization if I've ever seen one
 
The way this is done in Skyrim is probably the most egregious example. People fawn over you so hardcore wherever you go im surprised youre not getting suck jobs from every guard in the city just for walking past
but thats probably a mod
 
Actually, Souls/borne totally fits this example. Every game calls you the "chosen undead," blah blah blah.

But whatever, I don't mind, they're among my favorite games ever.

Everyone is the chosen one and a bunch of chosen ones can team up together or kill one another.
 

SomTervo

Member
Yeesh.

Ungodly handsome, Caucasian, mutation only gives sexy cat eyes, scars in the right places, enough grunge to look manly-rugged but not hobo, answers to no one, respected and feared by everybody, every girl wants to have sex with him, can get away with being gruff and snarky to everyone, extremely hypercompetent, great plot armor, has a hidden softer side, teammates defer judgement to him except for that spunky kid aww.

Overboard, but not inaccurate.

What is the point of video games then?

They're not all about a power fantasy. That's like saying "what's the point in films that aren't Hollywood action blockbusters". Sometimes the best gameplay or most immersive story/universe comes when you play an average joe.
 
I mean, FFXII has you play the game from the perspective of a relative inconsequential guy to the story that acts as a perfect fish out of water for the players to learn and understand the world we're playing but everyone bitched about it. It's emasculating to not be the center of the universe because videogames have conditioned us to have all this power fantasies.
It's a damn shame really.

Haha! Vaan's relative unimportance in the wider conflict wasn't why people hated him...

This is why I love The Elder Scrolls though. You're allowed to completely ignore the main quests. If you don't set the main quest chain into motion in Skyrim then dragons will never start appearing, you'll never be called "Dragonborn", and you can just carve out whatever life you want for your character in a dragon-free Skyrim.

What is the point of video games then?

Apparently it's to line up similarly coloured pieces of candy, because you have nothing better to do at work.
 
Interesting analysis, and I can't really disagree with the premise, crudely written as the OP is.

My current game project's narrative is something of a more personal, character-based one - an inter-dimensional 'tournament' where the losers die, and your character is a skilled but relatively normal person who just happens to be 'sponsored' by entities who have a vested interest in shutting the whole thing down. Who or what the villain is still up in the air, but chances are it's not really a multiverse-threatening entity, just a dickhead who gets his rocks off on people killing each other for whatever reason.
 
I would like the opposite. A RPG where you become so strong and powerful that there is some kind of feedback in the story. Normally you can do the craziest thing in battle mode but then a closed wooden door is the end of all world saving ambitions.

Yakuza did it right in a neat way where Kazuma is like a living legend in the later parts.
 
The Elder's Scrolls is the worse at this. I don't need to become the Arch-mage. I only know a couple of easy spells. It's fine that there's a way to become the leader of the mage guild, but that should not be done by killing things.

Dragon-Age Origins was the opposite. You could start as some poor beggar or the son of a noble, then you're forced to join the Grey Warden and gradually rise in the ranks.

Then in the second one you, they pick your character for you to cut down on voice acting. Sorry but you're now Jesus Bigdick. (That sounds too much like Je suce)
 
Ultimate fighter doesn't necessarily mean being center of the world

Geralt is being approached to
kill a king
when that's the last thing he'd ever get involved in unless he or she hurt Ciri and a moniker he ran a whole game away from.

They literally involve him in a quest he'd never join because he's the PC.

He gets called upon by the most influential person on their continent to do a job he failed miserably at before.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
I don't think Gerhalt ever goes full on Sue. I haven't finished Witcher 3 though, maybe I get to save the world? So far it's all been peasants dying terribly and the land going to shit.
 

Karl Hawk

Banned
Geralt is being approached to
kill a king
when that's the last thing he'd ever get involved in unless he or she hurt Ciri and a moniker he ran a whole game away from.

They literally involve him in a quest he'd never join because he's the PC.

He gets called upon by the most influential person on their continent to do a job he failed miserably at before.

That's fine with me because that king won't rest till he kills Geralt's loved ones (That includes Yen/Triss, Ciri, Zoltan and so on)
 

eso76

Member
I am not sure how i would feel towards an RPG that puts you in an epic quest to park your car and not be late at work.

Or get passable marks at school.
 
I want to try a game where you actually get weaker as you go along. You start off as a powerful God-like character with strength/health far beyond your enemies, and a fairly long list of available skills. However, you gradually lose these advantages, leaving you with fewer crutches but more reliance on mastering the core combat mechanics.

By the end of the game and at the final boss, you are the most basic of video game characters with just a few basic attacks and defensive moves, but you will have honed them to perfection.
 

UrbanRats

Member
It isn't interesting anymore. Gary Stus are S-T-U-P-I-D. I don't want to live your dumb Dragonborn/Mad Jesus/Chosen One/Literal Piece of Poo Elder God/special little flower-snowflake-fantasy, you sweaty, smelly nerd/whoever you are. I don't believe your character's stupidly tragic backstory for a second and I have no reason or capacity to empathize with him.
Keep it real.

I don't care either way, but honestly, in a game like Dark Souls, where the player ends up doing everything and then some (killing every monster/demiGod in the neighborhood) for them to be a special snowflake it's kind of endemic.
It doesn't make sense for the other folks to treat you like you're just another trooper, in that context.
 

Galileo

Neo Member
They literally involve him in a quest he'd never join because he's the PC.
That is not correct though,
the conspirators need him in particular because he's received a contract to hunt down Philippa from Radovid himself, thus he's one of the few people who can approach the king and (hopefully) lure him into an ambush
.
Besides, you're given the choice to remain neutral and even if you decide to get involved Geralt is adamant he's only doing this to protect people who are close to him.
 

Elandyll

Banned
Ultimate fighter doesn't necessarily mean being center of the world

Except for the "only 3 in 10 survive the -basic- Witcher trials, and Geralt was so gifted he went through the advanced ones and just came out of it with sexy white hair?

Let alone the part he plays in an "end of the world" prophecy, brought/ prevented by his own adopted daughter whom he was obviously fated to meet (happened on several occasions)?

Yeesh.

Geralt is the definition of a Chosen if any, except somebody actually called "The Chosen".
 
The PS2 entries had their share of that kind of stuff, but the closest the PS3 Atelier games get to it is Meruru in which you play the princess of a kingdom that's about to be absorbed by an adjacent republic. No save the world bullshit, no "the entire world treats you like you're God," you're just a girl (or maybe a guy in E&L) doing alchemy and odd jobs.

Final Fantasy does pretty well in the regard, tbh.

Perhaps MMO entries excluded - they do love lampshading it and making you do fetch quests, though.
Lightning had some issues. Butt\Squall\Zidane\Tidus\Vaan are pretty well-rebuked and definitely ain't shit. Tidus and vaan even more so.

Yeah, I love how in some of the later XIV main story fetch quests people basically say "I appreciate the help, but isn't this a little below your pay grade?"

IX, X, and XII are interesting in particular in that the player character isn't the "center of the universe," the female lead is. Nobody outside of the core cast really gives a shit about Zidane/Tidus/Vaan. We pretty much know this is the case in XII, but I kind of wonder if IX and X's stories were originally conceived as having female protags but decided to make a male point of view character because they didn't want to scare the suits.

Most of the Ar Tonelico/Nosurge games are similar in that respect- you're not the most important person in the world, you're just their bodyguard/moral support. AT2 being the most clear-cut example of this, where Croix ceases to have any relevance in the main story after about 2/3-3/4 of the way through.
 
That is not correct though,
the conspirators need him in particular because he's received a contract to hunt down Philippa from Radovid himself, thus he's one of the few people who can approach the king and (hopefully) lure him into an ambush
.
Besides, you're given the choice to remain neutral and even if you decide to get involved Geralt is adamant he's only doing this to protect people who are close to him.

Radovid
is on a ship. That's like one of the easiest places to assassinate someone that it's used in pretty much every fantasy series at least once.

Heck Letho does just that in Witcher 2 and that's literally a quest in Skyrim.

Roche has even been
working for the guy
.

Yes you're given the choice but being able to make the choice just feels wrong to me, just like in
The Last Wish
which was awful. He'd have to kill every
king
if that's all it takes to make them a target for him.
 

Karl Hawk

Banned
Except for the "only 3 in 10 survive the -basic- Witcher trials, and Geralt was so gifted he went through the advanced ones and just came out of it with sexy white hair?

Let alone the part he plays in an "end of the world" prophecy, brought/ prevented by his own adopted daughter whom he was obviously fated to meet (happened on several occasions)?

Yeesh.

Geralt is the definition of a Chosen if any, except somebody actually called "The Chosen".
Was he the one who fulfilled the prophecy? No? Then you're talking bollocks

So he survived the advanced mutations and got white hair as a result. What's wrong with that?
 
Was he the one who fulfilled the prophecy? No? Then you're talking bollocks

So he survived the advanced mutations and got white hair as a result. What's wrong with that?

Yes he fulfilled his prophecy. Ciri might be the chosen but Geralt was chosen to become her father,
twice

The entire 2nd book is about him coming to terms with destiny and his involvement in it.
 

Defuser

Member
Bloodborne is a poor example to pick. The game never said or imply you are the chosen,just another one of the many hunters who got sucked into the nightmare and only way to get out is to end it,save the world?Fuck that,I got different agendas.
 

Gbraga

Member
well both Frampt and Kathee bullshit you. The real point of Dark Souls (especially as seen in DS2 SOTFS) is just that you can't do shit after all. Link the flame, don't do it. Doesn't matter at the end. Shit will go down regardless. So there's really no chosen undead. You're just a tool for anyone's agenda, be Frampt, Kathee, Nashandra, Gwyn...

I feel like the only one that doesn't mess with the player is Aldia.

Btw I agree with OP. I'm a little tired about everyone around sucking my dick because how awesome I am, like Mass Effect or recently FFXIV.

Kinda. You're right that the natural outcome will be the age of dark, regardless of you linking the fire or not, but that's the point in Dark Souls, Gwyn's resisting the course of nature by extending the age of fire. You can think the Age of Dark would be worse, sure, but it's still the next natural step. Ancients -> Fire -> Dark. By linking the fire, all you do is postpone the inevitable, you extend the age of fire, but it wasn't supposed to be Ancients -> Fire -> Dark -> Fire -> Dark, this makes absolutely no sense, and it's a dumb retcon from Dark Souls II. For linking the fire to still be a thing in Dark II, the link the fire ending has to be the canon ending. This is the main reason why so many people dislike Dark Souls II's story as a direct sequel, it's dumb and misses the point. At least it'll serve a nice purpose in Dark Souls III, with the lords of cinder coming back to life.

Major Dark Souls spoilers.
 

Wulfram

Member
If I kill dragons for a job then I should get some respect. And generally you kill enough people that you have to be either a great hero or a monster.

Though recent Bioware games do tend to give rather too much admiration too early, I think.
 

Ushay

Member
I can see where you are coming from, but when you start making major kills and do awesome things in a game you going to get attention no?

Still Witcher did a great job of this.
 
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