I hope they never realize it. I want the Conservative party to waste away into the annals of history where they belong!
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Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
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I hope they never realize it. I want the Conservative party to waste away into the annals of history where they belong!
matthewwhatever
Member
To a lot of the diehards, the reason Harper lost was because he strayed too much from conservative principles. That sounds crazy to non-true-believers, but just look at the Ontario PCs for evidence -- the base thought that Eves/Tory/Hudak lost because they weren't true conservatives, and they rejected the "establishment" choice, Christine Elliott, in favour of Patrick Brown because he convinced them he would stay true to conservative values.
For an extreme version of this, look at the GOP down south. Their supporters fervently believe that the junior Bush faltered when he abandoned his conservative principles, and that McCain and Romney lost because they weren't sufficiently true to conservative beliefs, and I guarantee you that if/when Trump loses this November, a major part of Cruz's campaign in 2020 will be that the Republicans lost because they lost their way and strayed from the conservative path. To those people -- that is, the people who buy memberships and pick the candidates and the leaders -- being centrist is a bad thing.
I feel kind of bad for PKP. His separation/divorce apparently isn't going very well.
The NDP is going through the same thing, in a way.
The NDP is going through the same thing, in a way.
gutter_trash
Banned
http://www.journaldemontreal.com/20...discours-de-demission-de-pierre-karl-peladeau
Leader of opposition (Quebec) and leader of the Parti Quebecois: Pierre-Karl Péladeau quits.
Reasoning: wants to go home and be a family man.
Leader of opposition (Quebec) and leader of the Parti Quebecois: Pierre-Karl Péladeau quits.
Reasoning: wants to go home and be a family man.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Damn, now who will play the role of Bogeyman for gutter_trash posts? 
gutter_trash
Banned
they do have a messiah, a golden child who has been sitting it out for a couple of years who might come back and might be persuaded to come back:
Jean-Martin Aussant
I sure hope the PQ will choose him. Maybe if he fails badly in 2018 we'll finally stop hearing how he's gonna come save us like Jesus.
I have nothing against JMA but the whole messiah narrative built around that guy is puzzling to say the least.
gutter_trash
Banned
JMA is a thing with a specifc demographic on Facebook and Twitter.
But outside of the Facebookstan, he is a nobody
Is anyone even really sure who "the party leaders" are at this point?
There's a hell of a power vacuum there.
gutter_trash
Banned
Conservatives need to put the P back into PC if they want to win.
Going further right on Social Conservatism is a recipe for losers.
Going further right on Social Conservatism is a recipe for losers.
I have a funny feeling it's going to take more than one election cycle for the conservatives to govern again in Canada. Maybe as high as three or even 5 or more, but I can see the NDP possibly replacing them as official opposition in the future if they can get their house in order again.
Ether_Snake
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The thing is JMA always TKO anyone arguing with him on independence, he was even convincing anglophones during the ON campaign, he has a good professionnal background (worked for the financial sector in the UK), and during his campaign with ON he was making adverts in Spanish to reach out to Latinos. Things would be very different for the PQ under him, regardless of whether or not independence would be popular enough, the party could get back in power.
I think it's very unlikely though, because others will want to take the reigns, and JMA is actually sort of an outsider.
Extremely unlikely that the CPC will be back within eight years of Trudeau's election.
NDP will be a mess for a long time, and would make more gains focusing on provincial politics. They have an opportunity in Quebec on that end if they get the right candidate, but that's a big if. CPC will remain the main opposition because the money will dictate it so.
gutter_trash
Banned
His O.N. party only won less than 1.89% of the vote while he was leader in 2012.
Facebook likes ≠ actual votes
I'm thinking the only way the NDP can get official opposition again is if the Liberals get reduced to a minority which is possible or some of the less extreme parts of the CPC's move to the NDP. I think it may take a long time for the Liberals to lose power, but depending on how well the NDP does in future elections I can see them pushing the conservatives to opposition status, but that will depend on them making inroads in Quebec, Alberta and BC.They will have to get some of the conservative seats in these provinces to do it.
These kinds of prophesies continue to be silly. Nearly anyone but gutter_trash didn't think the Liberals could win *even going into this last election*, and almost anyone would have said something similar about them as this as recently as the CPC majority win in 2011, during which people from all ends of the spectrum seemed to believe it was a durable majority that would last as long as Harper wanted it to.
a) Things change far more rapidly than people give them credit for.
b) It's a choice for the parties to bog themselves down in the quagmires we can see the start of in the NDP and CPC, but it's also something that can be snapped out of and a party can rally under a new and strong leadership remarkably fast (as seen with the Liberals).
c) "Long time" is so vague. 2 years? 5 years? 20 years? 30 years?
d) If we actually get meaningful electoral reform all of this is moot, a lot will change in very difficult to predict ways.
Ether_Snake
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Haven't heard anything in a while. It's the only thing that could hit the PLQ. Would be a nice welcome for anglophones and immigrants to have an alternative instead of being stuck with voting for a neoliberal privatize-everything corrupt party. But my guess is they would pick the wrong leader, someone like Boulrice.
gutter_trash
Banned
With what base?
the unions support QS and the left wing of the PQ.
and that is what and NDPQ would compete for.
millenials are turning against unions here, Quebec is more likely to turn Right than Left because the Left in Quebec only fight for union workers and ignore non-union workers
There is no room fror a Provincial NDP to compete against the instituional marriage of unionised public sector workers and the PQ
But there's no PC party, only the CPC. The P stands for Party!
Ether_Snake
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The unions support the PQ. QS support is barely above what ON got.
Millenials aren't turning against unions, it's the unions that are on a downward slope since manufacturing has moved out. It's popular in the public sector and construction, and the remaining manufacturing sectors. All the "millenials" I know who work in hospitals are all pro-unions, with good reason.
Stop distorting reality to fit your narrow narrative.
gutter_trash
Banned
look, you were wrong on O.N. numbers and you are wrong again here.
in the city of Montreal, QS has lots of support from local unions too and their communist siskel and hammer banners are present during protest along with QS party banners during protests
millinials are in fact becoming more entrepernial and turning against the union mob
Ether_Snake
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What ON numbers? Quote them.
The protest you speak of; it's a bunch of kids from colleges and universities who brandish those banners. The union folks brandish pretty much their respective unions' flags
All the fricking plastered anti-capitalist adverts everywhere are plastered by college kids, and they make the bulk of the protests you speak of. Unions just go so-so-so-solidarité while on strike.gutter_trash
Banned
you said that they have big support
i gave you the results from 2012: 1.98%
QS gets 10x more votes than ON
Ether_Snake
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Quote me where I said ON has big support??
What ON numbers? Quote them.
The protest you speak of; it's a bunch of kids from colleges and universities who brandish those banners. The union folks brandish pretty much their respective unions' flags
Post 2573 above...
edit: Argh, double post
This is what I get for looking in the wrong tab...gutter_trash
Banned
here you are, overrating him.
....
freaking QS with thier commie message performed better than ON 10 to 1
ON are like that unnoticeable lint lost in the belly button
Ether_Snake
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I never talked about fricking ON's popularity, I talked about JMA and how he reached out to people the PQ doesn't. It's not about ON, it's about how JMA might lead the PQ compared to previous leaders, about the message. He would have never taken's Marois' stance with the chart of that kind of stuff. Stop raging.
I was expecting a small Liberal majority by about the second week in
To deserve a
you'd have to say you expected that the day the writ was dropped.To deserve a
Hah okay, that's a fair point.
On another note: an interesting interplay today on the financial markets. Oil went down, while the Canadian dollar went up. US Dollar Index also went down, which was expected.
gutter_trash
Banned
and Donald Trump is winning with the Hispanics
/s
Aussant took a hardliner stance on Bill 101 in CEGEPs.
He wanted to deny Francophones the ability to attend English CEGEPs (juinior colleges) but but but but oh Mister Aussaunt was able to learn English and go work in London, England as an economist; wanted to deny Francophones in Quebec the right to attend English CEEGPs to improve their English
JMA is full of crap. Do as I say but don't do as I do
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Don't worry, it won't be long until Energy East sparks renewed interest in Quebec separation.
Bell just purchased MTS for $3.9 billion. MTS was Manitoba's largest telecom service. They did cable, internet and phone. This deal is really scary because it actually isn't just Bell but Telus as well. They worked together and split the cost to get rid of MTS. Their motives are very transparent:
I knew that other parts of Canada were more expensive but good god, this is insane. I think I'll just go back to writing letters by ink under candlelight.
This deal conveniently takes place only several weeks after the PCs won the largest majority in Manitoba's history. July will be Hydro's turn and healthcare should be taken care of before Christmas!
I knew that other parts of Canada were more expensive but good god, this is insane. I think I'll just go back to writing letters by ink under candlelight.
The shadiness never ends. I hate these people.CBC comments said:
This deal conveniently takes place only several weeks after the PCs won the largest majority in Manitoba's history. July will be Hydro's turn and healthcare should be taken care of before Christmas!
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Oh man. A friend of mine is training so she can pass the physical test to join the RMCP. I wonder what she'll think about all that...
That test is kinda dumb though because there's no requirement to keep fit. My friend said she spoke to several current RMCP members who admitted that while they obviously passed the test at the time, if they had to go through it today they'd fail it miserably. lol
Maybe they're really getting rid of frivolous requirements? *shrugs*
Serious question: why would you?
Fuck that guy haha. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Don't worry so much. It all worked out in Police Academy when they did the same thing.
matthewwhatever
Member
I love and agree with almost everything about this post. My only quibble would be that the Liberals may have turned things around pretty quickly during the campaign (which is why I was saying from the beginning that no matter what the polls were saying it August, it was a long time until Election Day and that anything could happen -- though not even I was predicting a Liberal majority), it worked because they laid the groundwork beforehand, and had been knocking on doors for months and years before E-Day. I don't know for sure about the NDP, but I didn't get the sense that they were as big on pre-election planning and groundwork. Their post-mortem a few weeks ago identified that as one of their problems, but I don't know how accurate that is.
But otherwise, yeah -- things can change pretty rapidly, and saying any party is dead now when the election is still 3.5 years away is foolish. Historically, we've only had two one-and-done majorities (1874 Liberals and 1930 Conservatives), so it's likely right now that the Liberals at least pull off a minority in 2019, but saying it's a sure thing ignores how fluid politics can be.
It really pisses me off how pipelines have become tied to national unity. I'm not Quebecois, so the situation is a little different for me, but I really resent the notion that being against pipelines has come to mean that you're also against the country staying together. It's such a myopic view of the issue, and the fact that nearly everyone across the accepted political spectrum has fallen in line with the message that pipelines=unity has been hugely disappointing. I'd imagine that the vast majority of people -- both in Quebec and in the rest of Canada -- who are opposed to Energy East are opposed because they recognize how bad it is for the planet, not because they want to stick it to Alberta.
Bell just purchased MTS for $3.9 billion. MTS was Manitoba's largest telecom service. They did cable, internet and phone. This deal is really scary because it actually isn't just Bell but Telus as well. They worked together and split the cost to get rid of MTS. Their motives are very transparent:
I knew that other parts of Canada were more expensive but good god, this is insane. I think I'll just go back to writing letters by ink under candlelight.
The shadiness never ends. I hate these people.
This deal conveniently takes place only several weeks after the PCs won the largest majority in Manitoba's history. July will be Hydro's turn and healthcare should be taken care of before Christmas!
If your anti-corporate stance is anything like your anti-PC stance -- which, you know, couldn't even get you motivated enough to go vote a few weeks ago -- I doubt they're all that concerned about your opposition.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I actually agree 100%, but inevitably this will get shoved down our throats and the reaction at that point will be a hard turn to Quebec nationalism for sure.
And aside from the obvious planet cooking problems, building pipelines as an infrastructure play at this point makes about as much sense as building canals for resource extraction in the mid 19th century, just before railroads became a thing.
It pisses me off that anything that Quebec tends to lead the opposition on (and this time it's not even just them) turns into a unity debate, like every province is just holding onto an issue trump card hoping it will rile Quebecois up over it enough to plunge our federal politics back into useless federalism/separatism debate and ignore any other issues that are far more pressing, like the environment.
gutter_trash
Banned
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/angus-reid-poll-pipeline-energy-east-1.3474031
Energy East has 48% support in Quebec. (I am one of them who supports it)
The Lefty-Left will not be convinced to ever support it.
but you can convince the rest for the case for increase in revenue is made; Then support would cross above the 50% threshold
IMO, the Premier bungled this issue by being too ''green'' ideologically without thinking about the potential for revenue streaming
Energy East has 48% support in Quebec. (I am one of them who supports it)
The Lefty-Left will not be convinced to ever support it.
but you can convince the rest for the case for increase in revenue is made; Then support would cross above the 50% threshold
IMO, the Premier bungled this issue by being too ''green'' ideologically without thinking about the potential for revenue streaming
And if I voted? They would care? Even though they won my riding by a landslide? I'm content with waiting for them to destroy everything like last time and forcing everyone back into the hands of the NDP. Until then, I will whine online.
gutter_trash
Banned
even if your guy is going to lose, vote anyway.
I have never won ever in my life one single Provincial election for my Riding(s), like ever since 1992.
But I still vote in every Provincial and Federal Election.. because eh, you never know, shit might happen like 2011's Orange Crush and in 2015's Red Wave Federally
You will be waiting at least 8 years for that to happen because Brian Pallister said the PC's won't do anything that will get them kicked out of office in one term. They will try to please everyone including the people that don't support them.
Simon Belmont
Banned
Folks are unlikely to take you seriously, considering you couldn't be arsed onto the bare minimum of democratic responsibility.
pr0cs
Member
And how do you propose getting those hydrocarbons to market then? You can't say "we shouldn't even bother". There is still too much riding economically on the sale of these products.
The fact is that for the foreseeable future we still need to get the product to market and a pipeline is the safest, wisest choice.
Even if the market value is in the toilet I'm sure Canadian citizens would like cheap gas and the derivatives of oil that pipelines could provide... But of course that is overlooked
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Use existing pipelines and extract at a slower rate.
Not exactly the best thread for this, but Fort McMurray is burning. Stolen from Twitter:
This lady is in trouble: https://twitter.com/JHauk84
Developing FAST.
This lady is in trouble: https://twitter.com/JHauk84
Developing FAST.
Suncor mine being evacuated. Same for several neighborhoods.
https://twitter.com/ReidFiest/status/727614038872449025
https://twitter.com/ReidFiest/status/727614038872449025
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