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What game popularized using the second analog stick as the camera control?
- Thread starter mazpratim
- Start date
IIRC, Turok on the N64 was either the first, or the one that popularized, placing the look control on one side (the analogue stick) and movement on the other. Later it was the Alien game shown above that evolved that setup and applied it to the dual stick set up, with Halo making it the standard that it is today.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Never liked the bounding box style turning with the wiimote/nunchuck. Made everything feel like a rail shooter, and wasn't well suited to camera movement.
As far as the first time I used it? Timesplitters 1, iirc. Having played similar schemes in turok and quake 1 (ps1), it was fairly easy to get into. Was dominating friendly matches with friends in no time.
Compared to previous camera schemes using shoulder buttons (a staple of the ps1/n64 era), or using a 'strafe button' (ala Quake 1) it was a snap to get used to.
People really underestimate how off putting modern controller can be to the uninitiated. And that just asking people to control the camera is already a barrier as you throw them controlling tow different things in real time at them, much less when you add in the less precises and intuitive nature of sticks.
Let me dig something up:
http://dmediamom.com/2013/03/31/when-did-video-games-get-so-hard-to-play/
It's not the only "Lord modern controls are off putting!" thing I've run across but I think what makes it stick with me is the "three joysticks" comment. That modern controllers have three inputs(d-pad and two analog sticks) that visually read "screen navigator" was a real "Oh!" moment for me.
I mean the real answer to "popularised" is probably Halo, because not much else was as popular as Halo. Maybe GTA 3 is the secret correct answer?
As for earliest mainstream implementation, Shenmue must be pretty close, though the layout of the Dreamcast controller made it sub-optimal.
Playing it via emulation on a modern dual-analogue controller is pretty eye opening, as being able to easily run and look around is pretty cool in such a rich and detailed world.
As for earliest mainstream implementation, Shenmue must be pretty close, though the layout of the Dreamcast controller made it sub-optimal.
Playing it via emulation on a modern dual-analogue controller is pretty eye opening, as being able to easily run and look around is pretty cool in such a rich and detailed world.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Eh? I remember playing Turok the first time. The analog stick was to look and yellow buttons to move. It felt awkward to me since I'd been moving with my left thumb forever.No so much a game as much as the idea of having camera buttons on the N64. These naturally transitioned to a second analog stick that could be used for other purposes as developers saw fit.
Was the most jarring shit at the time to look around with your left thumb.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, I always used the Solitaire controls in Goldeneye.
Colony Wars has a control setup where the right stick controls throttle and rolling. the default controls don't use the 2nd stick at all.
----
uprising-x (1998) is another ps1 game that had modern dual stick controls:
Gamespot's review said:
Refreshment.01
Member
You are talking about a developer implementation, more over an early one.
Post launch shooters that at least put some effort in their controls allowed the user to configure the camera system as they saw fit. You could basically reduce the bonding box practically to zero, emulating a mouse with the Remote if your play style demanded so.
Regarding the staples of the N64/PSX era. It's pretty much demostrated in this thread that the N64 setup is the precursor to the second stick. Most action games in the N64, parted from the Mario 64 foundation of using the left side of the controller for character locomotion and a dedicated right side part (C buttons) for camera controls.
The N64 stablished the control methods and game controllers most consoles use today.
More over Golden Eye did implement the Dual Analog srtup as we have it today, althought it didnt popularized it nor it was as polished as something like Halo which came years and a generation later.
Refreshment.01
Member
When we debate about these things, we tend to fall in the assumption that something like the N64 controller wasn't fitted with 2 thumbsticks because the taught probably flew by Nintendo's engineers.
When in reality decisions like that were based in user accessibility and simplification.
Moon_frogger
Member
did you....did you even read the thread title? it has the word 'analog' not 'digital' lol
Revolutionary
Member
someone didn't read indeed. The "Dual Controller Styles" header on that wikia link describe various ways to play Goldeneye in dual analog (with two n64 controllers)
7DollarHagane
Banned
This game is actually pretty good, I have it. Not bad for a ps1 shooter.
Probably didn't popularize it, but -
Descent 1994, move/strafe left analog, aim right analog -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR8BqikwYbE
Also came out on PS1 in early 96 with the same setup (using PS1's dual flight stick and later dual analog/shock)
Descent 1994, move/strafe left analog, aim right analog -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR8BqikwYbE
Also came out on PS1 in early 96 with the same setup (using PS1's dual flight stick and later dual analog/shock)
This is fucking hilarious.
CertifiedFP
Member
Also the ONLY Alien game to properly represent a Facehugging instead of Facehuggers being some dull instant-death thing. Even if incubation time was a tad bit short.
I wish more games based on the IP would have some fun with that... Like, what if Isolation had an alternate-ending if you got facehugged instead of just being game-over if you screwed up?
JailDesigner
Member
Yeah, I remember the feel of that second stick on the N64 controller
timetokill
Banned
WHY DOESN'T ______ JUST USE TRADITIONAL CONTROLS OMG
timetokill
Banned
Always-honest
Banned
A lot of people forgot how unintuitive and weird dual analog really is. If you compare the learning curve to a wiimote, for instance, it's huge.
timetokill
Banned
Yup. Which only makes it weirder when people ask for "traditional" controls and they mean dual analog controllers. It's a huge barrier to entry for novice gamers.
The n64 joystick was both, you still had the d-pad and if you used it, the joystick was the right stick ;P
Generic Power Ranger
Member
An interesting sidenote: This prototype Playstation controller had 3 face buttons and a PoV hat (4-way digital stick). You could consider it an early version of both the right stick and c-buttons.
This is cool
Also, am I the only one who wants to try that alien game now
Lord British
Member
Obviously it didn't popularise it, but the first game I recall using this system with was Mega Man Legends 2 (unless TimeSplitters pre-dates that).
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
C-Buttons = Camera Buttons
fools
fools
i think it was codeword tenka or something using the second analogue stick for controls. but if we talk about real cam control (third person or more like free control, it was mario 64 but even that game was a bit limited. i would say it got popular with the xbox coming around. i remember splinter cell being the first game using it in the best way possible.
NumberThree
Member
And then a few weeks later Gamespot had this in their review for Timesplitters:
Of course they have different reviewers. Maybe the Alien game had the wrong inversion for the reviewer (non-inverted when he wanted inverted or vice versa), with no settings to change it or he just didn't realize that's what was causing his issues?
Borrowed or not, Halo perfected the modern FPS control scheme.
dickroach
Member
c stick buttons? Mario 64.
Chû Totoro
Member
ding ding ding
Coreda
Member
It was inevitable a game would take inspiration from earlier non-dual analog controls, such as GoldenEye's alternate control schemes where the C-buttons were used for movement while the analog stick for aim (or vice versa). Historically the earlier single analog examples are arguably more relevant.
This FPS family tree thread is worth a look, and its associated community-edited graphic. We can see the PC's WASD controls were the natural progenitor for the controller adaptations with a single analog, then dual analog.
This FPS family tree thread is worth a look, and its associated community-edited graphic. We can see the PC's WASD controls were the natural progenitor for the controller adaptations with a single analog, then dual analog.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
The first game I recall using it (not saying it was the very first) was one of the Timesplitters. Took a while to get the hang of it.
Edit: Oh, yeah. Goldeneye. Good shout. Didn't feel quite the same, but yeah.
Edit: Oh, yeah. Goldeneye. Good shout. Didn't feel quite the same, but yeah.
You could dual analog on GoldenEye, you just needed two controllers:
I just tried this out and its SO clsoe to being fucking sick. BUT strafe is mapped to the right stick, and turn is mapped to the left stick. Ruins it. Still neat though. And maybe the first true example here?
Halo's scheme is Goldeneye's 2.2 control scheme, to the point that you can map it directly in emulation and it works just like Halo.
Bungie themselves said it was copied. Only Microsoft has ever said it was a control innovation, the N64 was known as "the shooter console" in it's prime for a reason.
That's Legacy in Halo. Try the other 2.x schemes. (But the single controller is the same thing anyway - and Halo also lets you use the dpad to move, so it used digital movement as well)
guys, i think the alien game is maybe the first game which got trashed for the controls, but the fps cam control was already available earlier on psx. iam definitely sure about that.
except for goldeneye which was released in 96 and needed two controllers.
but i think we are talking about free roaming cam control like its these days available in uncharted, tomb raider, and so on...
except for goldeneye which was released in 96 and needed two controllers.
but i think we are talking about free roaming cam control like its these days available in uncharted, tomb raider, and so on...
Shuggananas
Banned
Imo SM64 and goldeneye, even though they're just buttons it's still the same concept (one for movement, one for vision)
Triggerhappytel
Member
TimeSplitters was probably the first game I played which managed it competently, and that was a PS2 launch title. Aside from that, I know Alien Resurrection on PS1 used dual analogue stick controls and shoulder buttons to fire, but it wasn't very well implemented and felt clunky.
Candescence
Member
Yeah, everyone seems to forget that we tolerate/like the current 'standard' because we're just used to it. But to those who are trying to learn how to play a console game for the first time, trying to figure out what does what is a massive hurdle. There's a reason why the tutorial in each Halo game goes through the absolute basics.
By comparison, while the Wii remote aiming style of play isn't immediately optimal to many players, it's far, far more intuitive than even keyboard and mouse. It's partly why I'm disappointed that Nintendo actually dropped the split motion controllers thing, given a better way to track the controllers and a second stick for rapid turning, a Wii Motion++ would be amazing. Thankfully, VR controllers are picking up the slack.
That's only the first dual-controller map, try Galore and swap the controllers around in your hands.
/thread
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Ok..?? You know how many games "perfected" a control schemed
DarkestLight
Member
I remember using dual analogue on ps1 quake 2. It wasn't the default option though. Here's a bit from the GameSpot review from 1999
Graphics Horse
Member
GTA 3?! Nope, touching the stick in that put you in a weird static first person mode.
Wasn't until San Andreas they let you use dual analog on consoles.