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Ocelot in MGSV is so god damn boring.

Cropduster89

Neo Member
Yup he was a waste of space. Pretty much every character in 5 was the same way though, it just hurt more with Ocelot.

But I don't care much at this point. I hated what 4 and Peace Walker added to the story and wrote them off as non-canon long ago, and I can happily add 5 to that - especially as I enjoyed the game more than any since MGS3.
 

Alienous

Member
The AI ghost of Ocelot's mother is introduced and he still gets nothing to do.

Even his interrogations are tame PG-13 crap. Kaz has to do the heavy lifting.
 

Marvel

could never
Waste of digital skin, next to useless and almost a damn cameo... in a mgs game.

I hated the fact they used Troy as his voice too.
 
Guess I'll be the one who disagrees with you guys.

If you think that Ocelot was boring and acted different than in other games, that's because he is just playing a part in this one, he is teaching Venom how to be Big Boss. And the reason they don't show little snippets of him being his true self during the game it's because you as the player should not know this till you get to the end. You can argue that this was poorly executed, and I wouldn't argue with that since it's completely subjective, but the change in Ocelot personality is well justified, as anyone who finished the game should know.

People who didn't like the game tend to use this kind of threads to throw their usual "The whole game sucked" line and go away, that kind of hyperbole ruins the discussion and doesn't add anything, but it keeps happening in every MGSV negative thread.
I'll also be the one to disagree with the massive negative hyberbole going on in this thread.

I thought he was completely fine. I don't think he needs to act like a clown every game to be amusing. I think it was cool to see an Ocelot who wasn't focused on lying and scheming through the entire game.
 
Guess I'll be the one who disagrees with you guys.

If you think that Ocelot was boring and acted different than in other games, that's because he is just playing a part in this one, he is teaching Venom how to be Big Boss. And the reason they don't show little snippets of him being his true self during the game it's because you as the player should not know this till you get to the end. You can argue that this was poorly executed, and I wouldn't argue with that since it's completely subjective, but the change in Ocelot personality is well justified, as anyone who finished the game should know.

People who didn't like the game tend to use this kind of threads to throw their usual "The whole game was boring" line and go away, that kind of hyperbole ruins the discussion and doesn't add anything, but it keeps happening in every MGSV negative thread.

I mean, yeah, they executed their gameplan well. They had the idea to make Ocelot a one-note character who only delivers exposition for 99% of the game, then says a few interesting things in a tape you unlock after the second ending of the game, and they made it a reality. The problem isn't the execution, it's the initial idea of taking the most interesting character in the series and doing nothing with him. "He's supposed to be that way" is cold comfort.
 

Dremark

Banned
Even his interrogations are tame PG-13 crap. Kaz has to do the heavy lifting.

I recall cringing in one of the torture scenes which I didn't do in any of the other MGS games, I also played the Japanese version of the game which had the scenes "localized" to tone them down so I'm not really sure how they're viewed that way.

Ocelot's characterization is quite a bit different in this game (3 was the same in this regard actually) but he's known for being into torture and even in this he still seems to have fetish for it. The fact that Kaz was so hard-line on it was that Kaz was so off the rails and Ocelot had to be the voice of reason demonstrates how much Kaz has changed due to what he went through.
 

Roni

Gold Member
Here's boring because he's normal. MGSV is the first game where Ocelot is openly on our side. Every other game, he's playing the character Ocelot for all the parties he's manipulating.
In this game, you're Big Boss and Ocelot is your friend. He won't be over the top or cheesy. So in that sense he's different from the scheming Ocelot we've all come to know and love.

Except he really isn't. He's playing a character: himself. He is also manipulating the player in this game, deliberately erasing the memory of the real Big Boss from his own mind.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
yxFulLRl.png

*Snake see a helicopter for the 500th time*
"Boss, that's an enemy gunship!"

They couldn't even bother to record more than one line for that?
So many of the characters seemed to be condescending to me/Venom over the entire course of the game because they didn't have any lines beyond the "This is the first time you've encountered this" version.
It's like the VA equivalent of Zelda reminding you what something is every time you pick it up.

Also, is MGSV like, the third time in the series that Ocelot has "hypnotized" himself? What were they *thinking* trying to pull that shit again?

The enemy sniper...

Boss! Get down!



....The enemy sniper.

"BOSS GET DOWN.....the enemy gunship..."

This isn't a bad enough line to be funny. Is it a meme? It's not funny. I don't get it.
 
This isn't a bad enough line to be funny. Is it a meme? It's not funny. I don't get it.

Every time you see a helicopter, every time you see snipers, every time you start Fultoning people, you get to listen to these entire soundbites in full. They even drown out whatever you're listening to on your iDroid, because the game is determined that you hear every word of the 'enemy sniper' speech for the five hundredth time. Anyone who spends a decent chunk of time with the game will eventually have them memorised.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Every time you see a helicopter, every time you see snipers, every time you start Fultoning people, you get to listen to these entire soundbites in full. They even drown out whatever you're listening to on your iDroid, because the game is determined that you hear every word of the 'enemy sniper' speech for the five hundredth time.

Isn't that like... every videogame ever?

Am I old? Do most games not repeat soundbites ad naseum anymore?

If this is just some nonsensical meme, like how "do a barrel roll" became funny for no goddamn reason... okay, fine.. have your fun. But if this some "lolololol how bad" thing I think it's pretty selective and weird.
 
V is boring.

As a game? It's the best gameplay the series ever had. It's just too easy unless you turn off reflex mode and just use D-Horse as a buddy.

I get it that they want to appeal to a broad audience who doesn't want to crawl and scope out bases for minutes before you make a move for your target but it takes away from the fun IMO.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
This isn't a bad enough line to be funny. Is it a meme? It's not funny. I don't get it.

He says the same lines over and over again whenever you encounter the same types of enemies, as though Venom Snake hasn't encountered a hundred helicopters and thousands of snipers over the course of his career and this is some brand new concept he's being presented with.

It's weird in the context of just hearing it so many times playing MGS V, but it's downright *bizarre* in the context of Boss being a "legendary combat veteran" who's carried out a "one-man infiltration of the Soviet Union" among other feats.

I think "the enemy sniper" is the worst offending line, though, since it doesn't make a lot of sense to me in *any* context.
"THE enemy sniper? Am I supposed to know who this character is? Did Ocelot know the enemy had a sniped planted but just didn't tell me until I was about to be noticed and killed? Am I never going to encounter more than one sniper at a time?"
It reeks of taking a random sound byte out of context and shoving it into *every* context.

Isn't that like... every videogame ever?
Am I old? Do most games not repeat soundbites ad naseum anymore?
If this is just some nonsensical meme, like how "do a barrel roll" became funny for no goddamn reason... okay, fine.. have your fun. But if this some "lolololol how bad" thing I think it's pretty selective and weird.

Imagine if every time you came to a pit in Super Mario Bros the game cut the music off to play the exact same 10 second long clip of some guy telling you "Press A to jump. You'll jump higher the longer you hold the button. Jumping is when you leave the ground using your feet to generate upward momentum. Good luck!"
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
He says the same lines over and over again whenever you encounter the same types of enemies, as though Venom Snake hasn't encountered a hundred helicopters and thousands of snipers over the course of his career and this is some brand new concept he's being presented with.

It's weird in the context of just hearing it so many times playing MGS V, but it's downright *bizarre* in the context of Boss being a "legendary combat veteran" who's carried out a "one-man infiltration of the Soviet Union" among other feats.

I guess I think "videogames". Never noticed it.

The game is alerting you to the presence of the gunship appearing with the standard feedback noise for a gunship appearing.

To me this is like complaining that they always play the "drring!" noise when spotted by an enemy... but ooookay. I guess we hate this now and think it should be like real life when this is a videogame-ass videogame.

"Let's record 150 variations of the gunship alert" is something that a crazy person would want.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
I guess I think "videogames". Never noticed it.

The game is alerting you to the presence of the gunship appearing with the standard feedback noise for a gunship appearing.

To me this is like complaining that they always play the "drring!" noise when spotted by an enemy... but ooookay. I guess we hate this now and think it should be like real life when this is a videogame-ass videogame.

"Let's record 150 variations of the gunship alert" is something that a crazy person would want.

No, no, see, alerting you to a helicopter approaching by mixing the sound effects it makes slightly higher than the rest of the game's audio would be fantastic and intuitive.

THIS is Ocelot stopping the game to basically teach you what the fuck a helicopter is every single time you see a helicopter.
The voice clip is like 10 seconds long, and there's only one.
Sometimes Ocelot will teach you multiple times in a single mission that "That's an enemy gunship! One burst from its main gun can cut a man in half!"

"Let's record 150 variations of the gunship alert" is something that a crazy person would want.

I don't think that's what anybody's saying, but there's a massive middle ground between that and having a single line that insults the player and the protagonist's intelligence.

They could have just recorded ONE MORE line that was just something like "Hey, you hear that helicopter?" or "Watch it, Boss, intel shows a gunship in the area."

The "enemy sniper" line IS actually kind of humorous on its own, though.
You hear it so much and Ocelot so deliberately growls out the line that it makes it seem like he has some deep uncontrollable rage saved up for snipers.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
No, no, see, alerting you to a helicopter approaching by mixing the sound effects it makes slightly higher than the rest of the game's audio would be fantastic and intuitive.

THIS is Ocelot stopping the game to basically teach you what the fuck a helicopter is every single time you see a helicopter. The voice clip is like 10 seconds long, and there's only one. Sometimes Ocelot will teach you multiple times in a single mission that "That's an enemy gunship! One burst from its main gun can cut a man in half!"

So the problem is that it's a voiced piece of dialogue.

This bothers me exactly as much as talking to an NPC repeatedly and they say the same thing.

Again... meme away. I get that. But if it's like "wow this is a particularly stupid game" I'm rolling my eyes. Every game has been full of these kinds of things for decades.
 

Lingitiz

Member
This isn't a bad enough line to be funny. Is it a meme? It's not funny. I don't get it.

The delivery of both lines is super weird and hokey. It starts out super shocked for no reason and then he mutters under his breath "gr...the enemy gunship/sniper grr."

Actually the entire in-game voice direction is kind of terrible. Everything Kaz says has such a confusing tone like "You're going to extract him??????!"
 
So the problem is that it's a voiced piece of dialogue.

This bothers me exactly as much as talking to an NPC repeatedly and they say the same thing.

Again... meme away. I get that. But if it's like "wow this is a particularly stupid game" I'm rolling my eyes. Every game has been full of these kinds of things for decades.

It doesn't bother me that much, but to be fair MGS has been known for the insane amount of unique (voiced) codecs for every item and enemy. If you press the codec button it's just ocelot telling you how time doesn't stop while using the idroid.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
So the problem is that it's a voiced piece of dialogue.

This bothers me exactly as much as talking to an NPC repeatedly and they say the same thing.

Again... meme away. I get that. But if it's like "wow this is a particularly stupid game" I'm rolling my eyes. Every game has been full of these kinds of things for decades.

Hey, I'm trying really hard to explain why it's so weird and grating and you're just being super condescending, man.
I'm not trying to "meme" or however you're trying to brush it off.

Hell, it sounds like you haven't even played the game so why are you getting so defensive about something that obviously a ton of people have independently come to the conclusion is odd and irritating?
 

SJRB

Gold Member
I guess I think "videogames". Never noticed it.

The game is alerting you to the presence of the gunship appearing with the standard feedback noise for a gunship appearing.

To me this is like complaining that they always play the "drring!" noise when spotted by an enemy... but ooookay. I guess we hate this now and think it should be like real life when this is a videogame-ass videogame.

"Let's record 150 variations of the gunship alert" is something that a crazy person would want.

You're missing the point.

After x amount of hours, the game should stop giving you tutorial radio calls for random situations the player has been in for dozens of times by now.

Many games have tutorial prompts and the likes, but they stop gradually as the player progresses and develops his skill in playing the game. MGSV has no such check, it will give you tutorial messages even if you have spent 200 hours into the game.

Gunships, enemy snipers, the game warns you at every moment, taking away from the experience of discovering it for yourself. After x amount of hours, a player should be aware of his surroundings, aware that an enemy sniper might be in the area. But instead, the game spoonfeeds you this information as if you're incapable of discovering it yourself. MGSV overall is an extremely handholdy experience, the game is terrified of "letting go" of the player.

Not only is it tedious to hear Ocelot say the same tiresome line everytime, it's borderline mocking to a player because the game gives the impression that you constantly need handholding.
 
Miller won me over in the cassette tapes. He's at his best in those.

That doesn't redeem him; it just highlights how much they fucked up his character in the main cutscenes. Miller was awesome in Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes, as he's always like he is in PP's tapes.

I remember somebody else on GAF saying something I agree with wholeheartedly; every single returning character in Phantom Pain has their least likeable portrayal here. Ocelot is probably the most egregious example though, as he looks, sounds and acts like a completely different person.

In terms of story and characters, Peace Walker is by far the better game. And since that's why I like the MGS series, I think it's a stronger MGS game.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
That doesn't redeem him; it just highlights how much they fucked up his character in the main cutscenes. Miller was awesome in Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes, as he's always like he is in PP's tapes.

I remember somebody else on GAF saying something I agree with wholeheartedly; every single returning character in Phantom Pain has their least likeable portrayal here. Ocelot is probably the most egregious example though, as he looks, sounds and acts like a completely different person.

In terms of story and characters, Peace Walker is by far the better game. And since that's why I like the MGS series, I think it's a stronger MGS game.

Miller's probably the one character I give a pass in V.
I mean, I forget the exact timeline, but he lost two limbs and wasn't he captured, tortured and held in Afghanistan for an awfully long time?

If anything could change a person's demeanor for the darker I think that'd do it.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
You're missing the point.

After x amount of hours, the game should stop giving you tutorial radio calls for random situations the player has been in for dozens of times by now.

Many games have tutorial prompts and the likes, but they stop gradually as the player progresses and develops his skill in playing the game. MGSV has no such check, it will give you tutorial messages even if you have spent 200 hours into the game.

Gunships, enemy snipers, the game warns you at every moment, taking away from the experience of discovering it for yourself. After x amount of hours, a player should be aware of his surroundings, aware that an enemy sniper might be in the area. But instead, the game spoonfeeds you this information as if you're incapable of discovering it yourself. MGSV overall is an extremely handholdy experience, the game is terrified of "letting go" of the player.

Not only is it tedious to hear Ocelot say the same tiresome line everytime, it's borderline mocking to a player because the game gives the impression that you constantly need handholding.

I get it.

And yet, I feel like most games have been like that since forever.

If this is the moment where we are officially tired of it, or many of its peers have gotten rid of it and it suddenly stands out ... that's the part that I'd love to collect the mood of the community. I'd love to know that repeating lines is no longer kosher, since its been with us for 2+ decades.

But if this is the thread where we backlash against MGSV's narrative for being lesser than MGS prior.... naw. The repetition of that line is totally in line with MGS and all old-school game series. It's not evidence of V's unique sins at all.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
I get it.

And yet, I feel like most games have been like that since forever.

If this is the moment where we are officially tired of it, or many of its peers have gotten rid of it and it suddenly stands out ... that's the part that I'd love to collect the mood of the community. I'd love to know that repeating lines is no longer kosher, since its been with us for 2+ decades.

But if this is the thread where we backlash against MGSV's narrative for being lesser than MGS prior.... naw. The repetition of that line is totally in line with MGS and all old-school game series. It's not evidence of V's unique sins at all.

...You say you get, but it feels like you're almost intentionally trying to miss the point, now.
Seriously, if you get to accuse us of "memeing" at this point I feel I should accuse you of "trolling."

Remember when people got mad at Skyward Sword for teaching you about collectables *every time* you turned the game off and back on?
This is like that, but even more frequent and with the tutorial not always even making sense in the current context.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
...You say you get, but it feels like you're almost intentionally trying to miss the point, now.

Remember when people got mad at Skyward Sword for teaching you about collectables *every time* you turned the game off and back on?
This is like that, but even more frequent.

If I had to mash the A button through something, that would be completely different.

This is in game audio feedback.

This goes into the same position of my brain that "return to your positions" did in MGS1. Maybe it's different for others. Maybe it's intolerable now. Fair enough, but my old gamer brain glazed right over it.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
If I had to mash the A button through something, that would be completely different.

This is in game audio feedback.

This goes into the same position of my brain that "return to your positions" did in MGS1. Maybe it's different for others. Maybe it's intolerable now. Fair enough, but my old gamer brain glazed right over it.

Maybe I don't remember MGS1 perfectly, but Alert and Caution radio dialogs in MGS games often have variations, changes in the speaking party, and often change entirely depending on location and/or how the alert was caused. There are alert call dialogs for some pretty obscure situations in MGS 2, 3 and 4.

This is the same lengthy line, from the same character, no matter the situation, and you can easily hear it a half dozen times over a single mission.

"Boss, get down. That's an enemy gunship. Stay low and crawl along the ground. That should enable you to sneak past enemies."

That's an extremely long line to hear over and over and over again, every single time a helicopter comes into play.
Sometimes Ocelot will say the line, a minute will go by, and a different helicopter will come in, prompting him to say the exact same thing again.
Plus, it insults the player by making it seem like they're playing a Metal Gear game but have to be constantly reminded the very basics of stealth.
Even more on that same path, it insults the hell out of Big Boss, as though he's some toddler with a short-term memory issue that needs to be carefully steered through a warzone.

And from the "in game audio feedback" angle, it even overrides you own choice of in-game soundtrack if you're listening to music on the iDroid, so you can have played the game for hundreds of hours, decide to replay a mission and listen to your favorite tune, only for Ocelot to turn your goddamn music off to tell you what a helicopter is for literally the 300th time.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Maybe I don't remember MGS1 perfectly, but Alert and Caution radio dialogs in MGS games often have variations, changes in the speaking party, and often change entirely depending on location and/or how the alert was caused. There are alert call dialogs for some pretty obscure situations in MGS 2, 3 and 4.

Nope. It used a stock voice sample. A glorified feedback sound, like Mario hitting his head against a metal block, but a voice sample instead.

This is the same lengthy line, from the same character, no matter the situation, and you can easily hear it a half dozen times over a single mission.

Again, just sounds like videogames to me. Could certainly be a new 2010s standard that has been breached. It just seems weird to harp on in a thread about a very old series which is by and large being criticized for not being like the old ones....
 

SoulUnison

Banned
Again, just sounds like videogames to me. Could certainly be a new 2010s standard that has been breached. It just seems weird to harp on in a thread about a very old series which is by and large being criticized for not being like the old ones....

I honestly think you're just trying to be obtuse and contrarian, at this point.
 
Miller's probably the one character I give a pass in V.
I mean, I forget the exact timeline, but he lost two limbs and wasn't he captured, tortured and held in Afghanistan for an awfully long time?

If anything could change a person's demeanor for the darker I think that'd do it.

Whether or not it's rational is irrelevant. He's less likeable, and a weaker character. If the argument is that it makes sense because was kidnapped and tortured, then the obvious counter-argument is that he shouldn't have been kidnapped and tortured. It's not like it served any storyline purpose beyond making him bitter (and therefore less likeable).

If anything, if he still had the same demeanour as he did in Peace Walker, and Ocelot was more akin to how he is in other games, they could have reversed their roles and both characters would been faithful to previous portrayals and more likeable.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I honestly think you're just trying to be obtuse and contrarian, at this point.

That's silly. This is a thread about how Ocelot is so god damn boring... compared to how he was in previous games, when they would repeat lines all the time.
 

Forkball

Member
He served no purpose. I also hate how they retconned his reputation in Afghanistan. "Boss I only tortured people so I wouldn't blow my cover until you came back!" WHAT
 

Juicy Bob

Member
I feel Phantom Pain could've been a spin-off set in the established MGS universe rather than another, ultimately meaningless, fully numbered entry.

End game spoilers:
Venom Snake could've been the medic in the chopper but rather than he being a stand in for Big Boss, he could've used his experience and skills he learned at MSF and set up Diamond Dogs in the image of what MSF was. Everything that happens in the game - Afghanistan, Africa, Skullface - could've been within the context of a stand alone story, rather than another chapter in the story of Big Boss.
 

Genio88

Member
Agree, Ocelot used to be one of my favorite characters of this serie with Gray Fox...In MGS1 he was awesome especially after what you find out after the credits, in 2 and 4 he got worse due to the Liquid stuff, but was still interesting, in MGS3 his entrance was epic and even there he was a key character, but in MGSV he's so anonymous and boring must be his self-hypnosis...
Now talking about MGSV overall, the gameplay and visuals are the best of the serie, but the story and the characters are pretty bad and boring compared to the previous games, also the ending plot twist was quite disappointing, even if at least it justifies a bit the boring behaviour of
Venom Snake aka fake Big Boss
 
I feel Phantom Pain could've been a spin-off set in the established MGS universe rather than another, ultimately meaningless, fully numbered entry.

End game spoilers:
Venom Snake could've been the medic in the chopper but rather than he being a stand in for Big Boss, he could've used his experience and skills he learned at MSF and set up Diamond Dogs in the image of what MSF was. Everything that happens in the game - Afghanistan, Africa, Skullface - could've been within the context of a stand alone story, rather than another chapter in the story of Big Boss.

I don't know, I felt like the story of V made everything in MGS4 make way more sense.
The support characters in MGS3 turning out to be the big bad guys in the end felt incredibly forced. MGSV at least makes that twist feel natural with foreshadowing of control and revenge.

MGSV also ends the saga by revealing the true nature of the Big Boss legend.
It was simply a fabricated lie the entire time. People basically worshiped BB as a god for his various achievements. In reality, it was Venom Snake's accomplishments that helped make that legend a reality. This might seem minor on paper, but everything that happens in the MGS games taking place after V is simply the aftermath of BB's overblown legacy. It makes you look back on the events of previous games and shows just how crazy everything was with the genome army, making a Big Boss president, the patriots preserving BBs remains to be used as a symbol, etc.

Yeah, it's definitely not a game focused on tying everything together like MGS4, but it still has an impact on the saga overall. I don't really consider it just a side story for these games. V makes me appreciate all the game in the series a lot more now, everything just makes way more sense and has a lot more dramatic depth.
 
Whether or not it's rational is irrelevant. He's less likeable, and a weaker character. If the argument is that it makes sense because was kidnapped and tortured, then the obvious counter-argument is that he shouldn't have been kidnapped and tortured. It's not like it served any storyline purpose beyond making him bitter (and therefore less likeable).

If anything, if he still had the same demeanour as he did in Peace Walker, and Ocelot was more akin to how he is in other games, they could have reversed their roles and both characters would been faithful to previous portrayals and more likeable.

You seem focused on the idea of these characters being likeable. Pretty sure that wasn't the intention with V. You're supposed to feel conflicted about them, especially when they start making questionable decisions and having insane obsessions.
 
I felt that the biggest problem with Ocelot is that Troy is the wrong VA. One, he was damn near indistinguishable to Kaz, voice wise. Two, at no point did Ocelot sound like a triple agent, spy, or whatever. He sounds too goody-2-shoes, never once does he sound like he'd turn.
 
I felt that the biggest problem with Ocelot is that Troy is the wrong VA. One, he was damn near indistinguishable to Kaz,

Okay, I've seen many people bring this up, and it drives me crazy. Both characters sound completely different to me, yet so many people have trouble distinguishing their voices for some reason. I'm not insulting anyone that does have this problem, but it strikes me as super weird. In terms of tone, pitch, and accent, they are very different sounding people.
 
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