kraspkibble
Permabanned.
I've played a couple of the games before but when I bought V i tried to understand the story. Can't make sense of it. I just don't pay attention to the cutscenes and just play each mission. Just there for the gameplay.
You're both right though, reading some people here shows that many of them don't understand what the game was about, they probably didn't care to listen to all the tapes, to have finished all the tasks/secondary mission or took the time to digest everything before commenting...
We're in a day of age when everything is drowning under the deluge of preformatted works that invade us from every direction, we consume rapidly, bear a critical opinion on the instant and move on... almost nobodies speaks with their memory or feelings now, they're just following the general consensus or their favorite YouTubers/popcasters etc... or put attention too much on other people critics and don't even try the game...
The Phantom Pain is an artwork to remember in this shitty pop culture that won't stop hurting those kind of ambitious project... why bothers to create something when every generic games like COD, AC, Destiny, The Division, Fifa etc... are massive commercial success ? MGSV seems like a game from a different age and it's saddened me...
Is this post a joke?
MGSV is faaar from being a game from a different era. It is incredibly contemporary with it's mobile like timers, motherbase coin transactions, openworld design and so on. The game even shares the same fucking problems like some games you listed when it comes to story presentation, repetitive mission structure, overall progression, developers trying being more ambitious than what they could deliver etc.
Seeing so many posters unironically agreeing with this post is enlightening how far people go to uphold some "deeper" meaning with this unfinished and bland game.
The game even shares the same fucking problems like some games you listed when it comes to story presentation, repetitive mission structure,
Is this post a joke?
MGSV is faaar from being a game from a different era. It is incredibly contemporary with its freemium mobile like timers, motherbase coin transactions, open-world design and so on. The game even shares the same fucking problems like some games you listed when it comes to story presentation, repetitive mission structure, overall progression, developers being more ambitious than what they could deliver on etc.
Seeing so many posters unironically agreeing with this post is enlightening how far people go to uphold some "deeper" meaning with this unfinished and bland game.
I disagree, I mean those are concerns, but at the time of release, the backlash came from playing as Raiden. It didn't help that the tanker mission was sooooo awesome.Not really, people moan about the nonsense plot, how annoying Rose is, how lame Raiden is (not just not playing as Snake but playing as this dweeb), how it's a Shadow Moses repeat, etc. all the time. The bait and switch including the false trailers is huge, don't get me wrong, but the game does a lot more things to piss all over people's cornflakes.
I totally agree with you.
And for those that says that it doesn't close the story: What else do you want? It explains why Big Boss die so many times, the only barely missing thing is what he did in Zanzibar, but there is no truly need for that.
Really? So instead of "underground tunnel", "secret elevator", "secret anti-bomb bunker", they give us this bullshit nonsense about a doppelganger?
Explaining how Big Boss survived Outer Heaven was not needed. Hell the very original game says he survived in a post-credits monologue.
And about Zanzibar... That was actually the interesting part of the story. Who gives a shit about what some random dude bearing Big Boss' face did?
MGSV had one job: Show Big Boss descent into utter madness and villainy. And also show his interactions with Eli, his son.
Instead we got crap. And now Liquid's story in MGS doesn't add up. He didn't meet his father, he met a body double who treated him quite well. So where does this "he always told me I was inferior" stuff comes from now? What was the point of adding Eli and Mantis to MGSV then? Instead of showing Eli's growing resentment against Big Boss for something he did to him, instead this game tells us that Liquid was ALWAYS a little shit. He always hated Big Boss for... reasons... even after this "Big Boss" tried to help him, train him and make something out of him.
Eli has zero development during this game (Well, that's also correct for all the rest of the cast...). Liquid is Liquid. He has always been a rebellious little shit. Like a parody of himself from the future. He hates Big Boss. He says Big Boss treated him like crap and told him he was the inferior one of the clones. But yet that's bullshit, according to this game. What's the point of adding Eli if he does... nothing? He's just there, being all moody and sinister, but it amounts to nothing.
This game makes Liquid's speech in MGS seem like a load of bull, and not in the right way.
Yeah, the first Metal Gear is from the 8-bit Era, nobody back then was asking why a game's boss survived defeat and showed up in the sequel. It's just how it was. The fact that Phantom Pain's twist resolves that is merely a side effect. Kojima didn't write it this way to explain Big Boss surviving Outer Heaven, he wrote it this way because he thought it'd be sooooo fucking clever. So I can't take anyone seriously when they use "but it explains this!" as a defense of the shitty twist.
Regarding Liquid...it's possible that EIi came into contact with Big Boss later in life, and that's when all the stuff he mentions in his MGS1 speech happens. But then that brings us back to the question - why include Eli in Phantom Pain at all, then? The answer, like before, is because it serves Kojima's masturbatory obsession with trying to put the screws to the audience, canon and common sense be damned.
I certainly appreciate write-ups like these for the added insights they provide, and I want to disclaim I'm one of the few who likes MGSV's story a lot due to both of what you laid out, its tone and because I enjoy how its "twist" is used as an interesting way to characterise both Venom and Big Boss, but the unfortunate truth is that people who left the game feeling bored or disappointed will not be swayed by analyses like these because those argue in the game's favour on a rational level, whereas the initial response and the reactions it causes are emotional first. Much like the time shortly after MGS2 released, no argument about it being commentary on MGS1, the nature of sequels and player identification with their avatar could negate the initial reaction to the bait and switch. However, as we moved on people eventually started to see MGS2 for what it is and I'm hoping in due time the same will happen for MGSV. At least discussion might graduate from "Where are the cutscenes D:<" and the like. And like I posted earlier in the thread, I don't think discussion based on "I like vs. I don't like" can lead anywhere, so just getting past that phase would be a good start.The story itself is incredible and easily the most consistent and deepest story of the series. So many symbols, so many references and allusions, mostly to older games in the series. It's really too bad "the story sucks" is the go-to line because it's a huge achievement but it will be years and years before the masses realize it. It requires knowledge of the entire rest of the series (and not just watching the "complete movies" on youtube like many were doing before MGSV) and it probably requires a background in film theory and critical analysis as well. Most gamers don't have this background, and most people that do have this background don't have the time or inclination to invest hundreds and hundreds hours into a single story in a medium they are unfamiliar with.
Yes, hundreds of hours. You don't do an in-depth critique of a movie by watching it once, you watch it over and over, analyzing scenes, comparing it to the artists's previous work. How is Venom's journey different from Big Boss's? Or Solid Snakes? How is the sacrifice made by The Boss paralleled in the sacrifice made by Paz? Or by Venom himself? Is MGSV a commentary on MGS3 the way that MGS2 was a commentary on MGS1? What does that say about how Kojima sees his role as creator, and how has that role changed over the decades? All food for thought.
Kojima has been painting himself into smaller and smaller corners over the course of the series. Remember that the main villain died in the very first game: every thing since then has been a "retcon", or muddying up the mythology. Yet he has had to continue because of demand! With this game he was "supposed to show the fall" of someone who already had several games where the entire plot was about them becoming a world class villain. IMO this is what Ground Zeroes is for, to show the audience that Big Boss is already a demon. The first words out of his mouth are suggesting they "silence [Paz] before they are compromised". Then you have the weird and intense "rescue" of Chico and the horrific forced surgery in the helicopter. All of this took on heavy new meanings for me after playing through TPP twice and revisiting GZ. Paz is actually better off dead, better off dying in that jail cell, than what she goes through. Big Boss can no longer save people, he is at the very bottom of his arc in GZ.
Venom's story seems like an alternate reality version of Big Boss. A Big Boss who CAN still save people. A Big Boss who DOESN'T pull the trigger (on Quiet in a scene clearly inverting his execution of The Boss). A Big Boss who tries to make the world a better place. Yet he is trapped in the hell that Big Boss caused and he knows it. The hell of war, of the endless cycle of revenge.
The Prologue mission and the Shining Lights missions are the two narrative linear missions in the game, closed off from the outside world. This is not an accident. They show the beginning and ending of Venom's journey, from PTSD-stricken wounded war vet to power-mad leader shooting his own pleading soldiers in the face. The two missions are inversions of one another in many many ways. In the prologue you start in top of a building and work your way down in order to escape. In Lights you start in the bottom of a building and work your way to the top in order to stop people from escaping. There are many symbols shared between the two missions: there is lighting people on fire in both missions. There is stabbing Big Boss/Venom with a knife in both missions.
Every symbol will eventually need to be analyzed, which will likely take years. Here is an easy one to start with: the very first thing we see in the game is a mirror. Mirrors feature very heavily in the story. Mirrors are also a classical symbol in film. There is the mirror in the empty (is it?) room of Outer Heaven. There is the mirror that the doctor holds up to show you your new face before it is shattered. There is the mirror at the end of the game, also shattered, this time by Venom himself. Maybe there are more, but I can't remember, cos the game is huge and to catalog all of it would be a massive undertaking.
You're both right though, reading some people here shows that many of them don't understand what the game was about, they probably didn't care to listen to all the tapes, to have finished all the tasks/secondary mission or took the time to digest everything before commenting...
We're in a day of age when everything is drowning under the deluge of preformatted works that invade us from every direction, we consume rapidly, bear a critical opinion on the instant and move on... almost nobodies speaks with their memory or feelings now, they're just following the general consensus or their favorite YouTubers/popcasters etc... or put attention too much on other people critics and don't even try the game...
The Phantom Pain is an artwork to remember in this shitty pop culture that won't stop hurting those kind of ambitious project... why bothers to create something when every generic games like COD, AC, Destiny, The Division, Fifa etc... are massive commercial success ? MGSV seems like a game from a different age and it's saddened me...
It is half finished tripe. I can see why konami wanted to get rid of Kojima due the massive waste of money and time on a low quality product. They should have had more oversight on the studios working on this game.
What do people think of the idea that the whole "missing pieces" feeling of the story was his intention. He wanted to cause a fuss like this, because apparently it's similar to Moby Dick and adds to the whole Phantom Pain theme?
Excellent MGSV analysis video by Snake Soup
https://youtu.be/EA4uan90HeA
Graphic content at 19:20. Real war footage. Just a warning
The story itself is incredible and easily the most consistent and deepest story of the series. So many symbols, so many references and allusions, mostly to older games in the series. It's really too bad "the story sucks" is the go-to line because it's a huge achievement but it will be years and years before the masses realize it. It requires knowledge of the entire rest of the series (and not just watching the "complete movies" on youtube like many were doing before MGSV) and it probably requires a background in film theory and critical analysis as well. Most gamers don't have this background, and most people that do have this background don't have the time or inclination to invest hundreds and hundreds hours into a single story in a medium they are unfamiliar with.
Yes, hundreds of hours. You don't do an in-depth critique of a movie by watching it once, you watch it over and over, analyzing scenes, comparing it to the artists's previous work. How is Venom's journey different from Big Boss's? Or Solid Snakes? How is the sacrifice made by The Boss paralleled in the sacrifice made by Paz? Or by Venom himself? Is MGSV a commentary on MGS3 the way that MGS2 was a commentary on MGS1? What does that say about how Kojima sees his role as creator, and how has that role changed over the decades? All food for thought.
Kojima has been painting himself into smaller and smaller corners over the course of the series. Remember that the main villain died in the very first game: every thing since then has been a "retcon", or muddying up the mythology. Yet he has had to continue because of demand! With this game he was "supposed to show the fall" of someone who already had several games where the entire plot was about them becoming a world class villain. IMO this is what Ground Zeroes is for, to show the audience that Big Boss is already a demon. The first words out of his mouth are suggesting they "silence [Paz] before they are compromised". Then you have the weird and intense "rescue" of Chico and the horrific forced surgery in the helicopter. All of this took on heavy new meanings for me after playing through TPP twice and revisiting GZ. Paz is actually better off dead, better off dying in that jail cell, than what she goes through. Big Boss can no longer save people, he is at the very bottom of his arc in GZ.
Venom's story seems like an alternate reality version of Big Boss. A Big Boss who CAN still save people. A Big Boss who DOESN'T pull the trigger (on Quiet in a scene clearly inverting his execution of The Boss). A Big Boss who tries to make the world a better place. Yet he is trapped in the hell that Big Boss caused and he knows it. The hell of war, of the endless cycle of revenge.
The Prologue mission and the Shining Lights missions are the two narrative linear missions in the game, closed off from the outside world. This is not an accident. They show the beginning and ending of Venom's journey, from PTSD-stricken wounded war vet to power-mad leader shooting his own pleading soldiers in the face. The two missions are inversions of one another in many many ways. In the prologue you start in top of a building and work your way down in order to escape. In Lights you start in the bottom of a building and work your way to the top in order to stop people from escaping. There are many symbols shared between the two missions: there is lighting people on fire in both missions. There is stabbing Big Boss/Venom with a knife in both missions.
Every symbol will eventually need to be analyzed, which will likely take years. Here is an easy one to start with: the very first thing we see in the game is a mirror. Mirrors feature very heavily in the story. Mirrors are also a classical symbol in film. There is the mirror in the empty (is it?) room of Outer Heaven. There is the mirror that the doctor holds up to show you your new face before it is shattered. There is the mirror at the end of the game, also shattered, this time by Venom himself. Maybe there are more, but I can't remember, cos the game is huge and to catalog all of it would be a massive undertaking.
Why can't MGSV just be a fantastic game in its own right without having to crap on the other great games in the series?Masterpiece of a game. Sorry you didn't get you 3 hour monologues and 2 hour exposition dumps :/
The story itself is incredible and easily the most consistent and deepest story of the series. So many symbols, so many references and allusions, mostly to older games in the series. It's really too bad "the story sucks" is the go-to line because it's a huge achievement but it will be years and years before the masses realize it. It requires knowledge of the entire rest of the series (and not just watching the "complete movies" on youtube like many were doing before MGSV) and it probably requires a background in film theory and critical analysis as well. Most gamers don't have this background, and most people that do have this background don't have the time or inclination to invest hundreds and hundreds hours into a single story in a medium they are unfamiliar with.
Yes, hundreds of hours. You don't do an in-depth critique of a movie by watching it once, you watch it over and over, analyzing scenes, comparing it to the artists's previous work. How is Venom's journey different from Big Boss's? Or Solid Snakes? How is the sacrifice made by The Boss paralleled in the sacrifice made by Paz? Or by Venom himself? Is MGSV a commentary on MGS3 the way that MGS2 was a commentary on MGS1? What does that say about how Kojima sees his role as creator, and how has that role changed over the decades? All food for thought.
Kojima has been painting himself into smaller and smaller corners over the course of the series. Remember that the main villain died in the very first game: every thing since then has been a "retcon", or muddying up the mythology. Yet he has had to continue because of demand! With this game he was "supposed to show the fall" of someone who already had several games where the entire plot was about them becoming a world class villain. IMO this is what Ground Zeroes is for, to show the audience that Big Boss is already a demon. The first words out of his mouth are suggesting they "silence [Paz] before they are compromised". Then you have the weird and intense "rescue" of Chico and the horrific forced surgery in the helicopter. All of this took on heavy new meanings for me after playing through TPP twice and revisiting GZ. Paz is actually better off dead, better off dying in that jail cell, than what she goes through. Big Boss can no longer save people, he is at the very bottom of his arc in GZ.
Venom's story seems like an alternate reality version of Big Boss. A Big Boss who CAN still save people. A Big Boss who DOESN'T pull the trigger (on Quiet in a scene clearly inverting his execution of The Boss). A Big Boss who tries to make the world a better place. Yet he is trapped in the hell that Big Boss caused and he knows it. The hell of war, of the endless cycle of revenge.
The Prologue mission and the Shining Lights missions are the two narrative linear missions in the game, closed off from the outside world. This is not an accident. They show the beginning and ending of Venom's journey, from PTSD-stricken wounded war vet to power-mad leader shooting his own pleading soldiers in the face. The two missions are inversions of one another in many many ways. In the prologue you start in top of a building and work your way down in order to escape. In Lights you start in the bottom of a building and work your way to the top in order to stop people from escaping. There are many symbols shared between the two missions: there is lighting people on fire in both missions. There is stabbing Big Boss/Venom with a knife in both missions.
Every symbol will eventually need to be analyzed, which will likely take years. Here is an easy one to start with: the very first thing we see in the game is a mirror. Mirrors feature very heavily in the story. Mirrors are also a classical symbol in film. There is the mirror in the empty (is it?) room of Outer Heaven. There is the mirror that the doctor holds up to show you your new face before it is shattered. There is the mirror at the end of the game, also shattered, this time by Venom himself. Maybe there are more, but I can't remember, cos the game is huge and to catalog all of it would be a massive undertaking.
Why can't MGSV just be a fantastic game in its own right without having to crap on the other great games in the series?
Why can't MGSV just be a fantastic game in its own right without having to crap on the other great games in the series?