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90s Arcade Racer seemingly cancelled for Wii U and PC

Turrican3

Member
What makes you think it's a "small" project? You have no inside knowledge of how much it cost for them to develop the game and how much they would need to sell in order to break even. Also just because they ran a Kickstarter campaign that doesn't mean the whole budget of the game was funded.
Of course I have no insider knowledge.
But I do know this started as a Kickstarter campaing with a mere £ 10k target. That's what the creator of the game, not me, estimated it would (originally) need to complete the game.

Even taking into account Nicalis recent involvement, that definitely increased the expenses, I don't think it is really *that* far-fetched to still label it as a "small" project.
 

tebunker

Banned
Quoting a comment I saw on G0Nintendo (are they still banned? I forget):



That still doesn't explain why the angelcomm site has more up-to-date game information than the nicalis site...

Nothing seems to make sense but the go Nintendo people are sponsored in full by Nicalis so who knows. The website owner is friends with Tyrone at Nicalis.

Either way.

People jump way to fast to conclusions for no good reason. People need to learn to just be patient and wait for official info.

And for people who say they can see cancelling the Wiiu version making sense, you guys obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

First, if the game ran fine and was completely playable on WiiU why not release it and get some money back on that work? Second, Indie games have fared well in Nintendo's ecosystem, it is a proven fact. Finally, with Nintendo all but abandoning the system, if you can ship this game now or real soon, and even with a little bit of support they probably be able to more than recoup their investment thank to the captive audience there who still want games.

I'm not saying any of that is true or going to happen, but I am saying that most of you have no clue as to what you are saying and not adding anything to the discussion. The real thing here is the mystery PC cancellation which makes less than 0 sense.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Kickstarter doesn't mean that you pre-oder a game but fund a project. And PS4&One make more sense than WiiU at this point in time. But I expect that there will be a PC-version some months after the console version.

Kickstarter means that you pledge for a project and you're entitled to a reward.

That project was a game for PC, WiiU and mobile. Very clearly stated. The reward was a PC version of that games. If these don't it's a scam. It's very clear from my point of view. A PS4 and Xbone version can happen, but on top of the others.
 
I wonder how many other Kickstarters will bail on Wii U versions of their product as it enters its twilight years.

Do Kickstarter backers have any recourse? If some one Kickstarts a game, and a platform isn't a stretch goal but they say in the Kickstarter we're releasing the title for this Platform. Then they cancel it for that platform, can the people who Kickstarted it do a combined (what is it class action) lawsuit against them?

I get Kickstarter is risky and such, and this kind of thing seems different than a group just not delivering on a kickstarter. Like if you backed it, it succeeded and then they never deliver anything. If they're still delivering the game at all, backers who backed it for a platform that it gets cancelled for should have some kind of recourse.
 
I mean, I get it, but this is a small project.

I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation but...continuing to work on a Wii U game at this point in time when you're such a small operation could be dangerous. The Wii U is the worst place to release a new game at the moment especially if it's e-shop exclusive.

I'd still like to see a finished version on there but...the Kickstarter was made when the Wii U was still viable. It is no longer viable.

I think he should just release an unfinished Wii U version for backers.

He's also 2 1/2 years late, so it coming out when the Wii U isn't viable is his own fault. It's complete bullshit either way though.

If you say hey give me funds and I'll make you X, and then you're late and say never mind I'm just making W, peace out!. People have a right to be pissed and its NOT OK. completely regardless of the situation of the target platform. You took people's money with a promise of a product. You'll still making that product except for other people who didn't give you money to make it. It's flat out fucked up.

*edit*

And that's the other thing. If you say I'm going to make product X for platform Y and take people's money to fund that. Then go LOL NOPE only making it for Platform T and V fuck all the people who gave me money! It's a scam. They took money from PC, and Wii U gamers to fund a PS4/XB1 game if that's the case. That's some hardcore bullshit right there.

I mean funding for the PC and Wii U game already happened. The Kickstarted gave them the money to develop THOSE versions, taking that money and developing it for other platforms is a fucking scam job and fuck those assholes if that's what they did.
 

DrWong

Member
So if im getting this right this game was supposed to go out 2 years ago, and it was funded with a kickstarter for PC and Wii U, and i guess ps4 and xbox one were added later as strech goals; and now that game its getting cancelled for the platforms it was funded originally but still releasing for the ones that werent in the kickstarter
This sounds like such a gigantic scam that im going to guess its going to be entirely cancelled or someone trolled them and changed that info

What i dont understand its why people say that it makes sense to drop Wii U when it was funded for that

Not even as stretch goals. PS4 and Xbone versions have nothing to do with the kickstarter, so financing those with the kickstarter money is very close to a pyramidal scheme in my view.

PS4 and Xbox One were never stretch goals. In fact they were never mentioned at all until now.
The weirdest thing is how many posters came here to say "Fucked the Wii U version? Yep, normal, make sense, would do the same, smart move..."

Those are supposed to be the passionate people, not the cynical poor business guy covering borderline legal decisions with fishy logic. What console war has done to us...

Now I'm very curious to know if this cancellation is true.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
He's also 2 1/2 years late, so it coming out when the Wii U isn't viable is his own fault. It's complete bullshit either way though.

If you say hey give me funds and I'll make you X, and then you're late and say never mind I'm just making W, peace out!. People have a right to be pissed and its NOT OK. completely regardless of the situation of the target platform. You took people's money with a promise of a product. You'll still making that product except for other people who didn't give you money to make it. It's flat out fucked up.

*edit*

And that's the other thing. If you say I'm going to make product X for platform Y and take people's money to fund that. Then go LOL NOPE only making it for Platform T and V fuck all the people who gave me money! It's a scam. They took money from PC, and Wii U gamers to fund a PS4/XB1 game if that's the case. That's some hardcore bullshit right there.
Yeah, I do agree with you. It's pretty shitty and the developer really needs to clarify this point.

He better have a damn good explanation.
 

mclem

Member
Do Kickstarter backers have any recourse? If some one Kickstarts a game, and a platform isn't a stretch goal but they say in the Kickstarter we're releasing the title for this Platform. Then they cancel it for that platform, can the people who Kickstarted it do a combined (what is it class action) lawsuit against them?

I get Kickstarter is risky and such, and this kind of thing seems different than a group just not delivering on a kickstarter. Like if you backed it, it succeeded and then they never deliver anything. If they're still delivering the game at all, backers who backed it for a platform that it gets cancelled for should have some kind of recourse.

Most times I've seen situations where a KS has ended up not reaching one of the formal goals, the project manager has offered refunded those affected. Occasionally only on request, and it's somewhat dependent on the manager actually being able to do that; if there's simply no money there, there's not a lot of scope for there being any benefit in pressuring for payouts.

As one similarish example, I recall hearing that Evilore himself asked to be refunded when Shadowrun Returns made a decision he felt wasn't in line with what they advertised (regarding the DRM-freeness of the release); as I recall (I'm sure someone can correct me!) he got his money back, and the game was still completed for the other backers.

So it can happen. In principle I think you could indeed sue to get money out. In practice... that's probably not going to be worth the effort.

On a personal level, I generally back with an acceptance of the associated risk; it'd take a lot to make me explicitly push hard to demand my money back. One of the reasons I back KS is to alleviate the risk on the developers, and turning that risk back on them is against the spirit of why I back, even if I do lose out as a result.


*edit*

And that's the other thing. If you say I'm going to make product X for platform Y and take people's money to fund that. Then go LOL NOPE only making it for Platform T and V fuck all the people who gave me money! It's a scam. They took money from PC, and Wii U gamers to fund a PS4/XB1 game if that's the case. That's some hardcore bullshit right there.

I mean funding for the PC and Wii U game already happened. The Kickstarted gave them the money to develop THOSE versions, taking that money and developing it for other platforms is a fucking scam job and fuck those assholes if that's what they did.


Why on earth does my brain keep coming up with images of Aliens: CM and Borderlands on reading this? Can't possibly fathom the reason...
 

69wpm

Member
Same thing with Road Redemption which I backed for the Wii U version and is now in develop for PS4/XB1

Yeah, that and Monochroma, which now comes only to Xbox One for some unknown reason. I haven't gotten a single game I've backed on Kickstarter at this point.
 
The development of this game had been a mess

I think Kickstarter developers must fulfill their promise (frequently small titles). It's a way to show some respect for their backers.

Ideal visions of their games with more content and added money if a publisher gets in, should be to fund sequels or dlc

Bloodstained and Shovel Knights gets development right
 
The development of this game had been a mess

I think Kickstarter developers must fulfill their promise (frequently small titles). It's a way to show some respect for their backers.

Ideal visions of their games with more content and added money if a publisher gets in, should be to fund sequels or dlc

Bloodstained and Shovel Knights gets development right

They have to fulfill rewards or offer refunds if rewards can not be fulfilled as well as offer a reasonable explanation of why. Otherwise, the product owner is considered in violation of the Kickstarter agreement opening them up to legal action from every backer.
 

ChamplooJones

Formerly Momotaro
The fact that we never got a demo of this game is infuriating. The Drift Stage guys knew what was up. Even the devs for Racing Apex realized what they did wrong.
 

OmegaDL50

Member
Kickstarters that's why I don't support them.

This has nothing to do with Kickstarter, but more so the typical radio silence that Nicalis does.

Plenty of crowdfunded projects have turned out well, notably Shantae, Shovel Knight, Divinity Original Sin, Grim Dawn, Hard West, Pillars of Eternity, and I can easily list another 6 to 10 projects that were successful and released to date.
 

muteki

Member
The weirdest thing is how many posters came here to say "Fucked the Wii U version? Yep, normal, make sense, would do the same, smart move..."

Those are supposed to be the passionate people, not the cynical poor business guy covering borderline legal decisions with fishy logic. What console war has done to us...

Now I'm very curious to know if this cancellation is true.

Maybe I am super cynical about this, but I wonder how many kickstarters would not have come about if there weren't some prospect for money to be made post-campaign. I think it is a bit much to expect that projects of the size we see today to not have an expectation of profit potential outside the KS bubble, even if the basic premise of KS is "give us X and we will do Y".

So in that sense I do think that if you can look down the road and see that prospects aren't so great for one version or another that that could factor into the decision making process.

But it is a shitty situation all around, and this game is waaaaay late. These kinds of decisions wouldn't have to be made if the game came out on time.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
IMO thread title implies that there was a cancellation and not just a bad website update.

I'm erring towards this being a simple error posted on some weird ghettoized semi-legit website but even so, it goes to show how bad Nicalis is at marketing when they can't get their shit straight on their own websites and when people have to resort to digging up weird suspicious crap like this because they refuse to be transparent or give timely, meaningful updates about anything (not that we're entitled to them, according to the lead Nicalis guy...)
 

OmegaDL50

Member
Uh, Shantae's not out yet and it's kinda behind schedule too (but that seems to be common to every Shantae game, crowdfunded or not).

Ah, I thought the last game was crowdfunded as well. I wasn't aware Half-Genie Hero was the only one that needed crowdfunding.

Still I think the point of 90's Arcade Racer problems have nothing to do with crowdfunding but most likely Nicalis being Nicalis as usual.
 

tebunker

Banned
This has nothing to do with Kickstarter, but more so the typical radio silence that Nicalis does.

Plenty of crowdfunded projects have turned out well, notably Shantae, Shovel Knight, Divinity Original Sin, Grim Dawn, Hard West, Pillars of Eternity, and I can easily list another 6 to 10 projects that were successful and released to date.

Except that when you compare the # of successes vs failures its not very good. I would argue the rate of success is very small, but that should be expected.

In fact the best bets seem to be A: only Kickstart with money you have no problems ever seeing again, which to me is the right mentality to have or B: Never Kickstart anything ever again and only buy stuff when it is finally released.

Me personally I am in the B camp. I can always find better things to do with my money than give it to someone who may or may not ever be able to realize their dream.
 

TimmiT

Member
I wouldn't really see a problem with cancelling the Wii U version if it wasn't something people backed the Kickstarter for. Like it's still not something terrible cause I can understand why it'd be cancelled, but some Kickstarter backers are getting screwed because of this. Cancelling the PC version would make no sense at all though.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
Ah, I thought the last game was crowdfunded as well. I wasn't aware Half-Genie Hero was the only one that needed crowdfunding.

Nah, they were still making Pirate's Curse on their own when they ran the KS for Half-Genie Hero (and people are still confused about which game is which). I don't know how they pulled that off, come to think of it.
 
The fact that we never got a demo of this game is infuriating. The Drift Stage guys knew what was up. Even the devs for Racing Apex realized what they did wrong.
Hasn't the issue all along been that they didn't have any AI for the CPU drivers? Playing on the track by yourself would be a pretty lame demo.

Also is this thread just about a rumor from an external site, and can the title be updated if so? Considering the game is written in Unity and was Kickstarted for Wii u, a cancellation of the WiiU and PC versions in favor of ps4 and Xbox one seems unlikely.
 
Except that when you compare the # of successes vs failures its not very good. I would argue the rate of success is very small, but that should be expected.

Is it really like that? I remember a gaffer keeping a document about game-related kickstarters and their status, and that it told a different story.

In fact the best bets seem to be A: only Kickstart with money you have no problems ever seeing again, which to me is the right mentality to have or B: Never Kickstart anything ever again and only buy stuff when it is finally released.

Correct about A. Kickstarters have never had any guarantees, and it has always been about backers making the call about whether or not a project seems doable.
 

OmegaDL50

Member
Is it really like that? I remember a gaffer keeping a document about game-related kickstarters and their status, and that it told a different story.

Indeed, I remember this too. I think it was Y2Kev that posted the information on a list of successful and released kickstarters compared to failed ones, and the list had overall positive outlook in general.
 

LewieP

Member
People jump way to fast to conclusions for no good reason. People need to learn to just be patient and wait for official info.

The developer has given out no updates on their kickstarter since November 1st 2015, despite the game being two and half years late.

It's entirely within their control to communicate effectively, they are just choosing not to. But hey, at least they've got people's money now.

Edit: and in that update they claimed the development was "coming to an end".
 

kagamin

Member
Serious question: do you really expect the game to came out on Wii U?

Well considering the game was funded for PC, Wii U and Mobile, I'd expect it to come to PC at the very least. And if its not coming too Wii U everyone who backed it for that version deserves a refund.
 

plufim

Member
Really tired of how the press, who love to call out the AAA publishers for less, just won't go after Nicalis, who've been screwing up for a decade now.

I can only assume they don't want to be seen as picking on the little guy, but fuck that. Enough is enough.
 

OmegaDL50

Member
How did the Project CARS situation end up for them? Did they offer a refund?

That was entirely different then the usual crowdsourcing campaign on the basis that people who bought into that project were also entitled to some of the profits of the games sales. It was more than just funding it's development and investing into the actual success of the project overall, unlike a significant majority of game related crowdfunding campaigns which primary purpose is to acquire necessary funding to allow the game to have enough just to cover it's development costs.

There is also the matter of transparency. Far into PCars development, SMS stated that Wii U development was put on the backburner and was no longer a top priority.

A much different situation to 90's Arcade Racer which original platform was always PC and Wii U.

In fact looking at the campaign the PS4 and XB1 as a platform are not even mentioned in terms of development or even part of any stretch goal.

So the entire shift of development from the original announced platforms AFTER money was received for the projects funding and becoming two completely never mentioned or announced platforms is extremely misleading if true.

Wii U wasn't part of the Project CARS crowd funding.

Yes it was, in fact the earliest announcement of the campaign was for PC, 360, PS3, and Wii U.

The PS3 and 360 versions were dropped to shift development for next-gen PS4 and XB1 at the time, with the Wii U version still in the works until it's eventual cancellation.

In fact here are some pictures that show it was in development and the concept for it's controls

2IZfj.jpg

project-cars-wii-54885.jpg

project-cars-1.jpg
 

Explain how this one turned out well. It's well past it's original release with no update on when its coming. The developer has released other games since this got funded, and yet the people who kickstarted this are still waiting.

*edit* I see that got addressed, sorry I'm still miffed about Shantea since I backed that one.
 
I'd be willing to bet they decided to release an NX version instead. I'm sure we'll see a lot of news like this over the next year, and for that very reason. Expect other games, like Bloodstained, to follow suit. There's no reason to release games on abandoned hardware; clearly a perspective even Nintendo has adopted.
 

OmegaDL50

Member
Explain how this one turned out well. It's well past it's original release with no update on when its coming. The developer has released other games since this got funded, and yet the people who kickstarted this are still waiting.

Read more of the thread. I already commented on this.
 

Pinky

Banned
I'd be willing to bet they decided to release an NX version instead. I'm sure we'll see a lot of news like this over the next year, and for that very reason. Expect other games, like Bloodstained, to follow suit. There's no reason to release games on abandoned hardware; clearly a perspective even Nintendo has adopted.

This is a reasonable stance.
 
I wouldn't be surprised, though disappointed, if the cancellation of the PC and Wii U platforms is true. Pelikan13 hasn't exactly been on time with delivery of this particular project (was originally supposed to be released back in 2013) and hasn't updated the KS campaign since November of last year; while Nicalis has racked up a reputation for itself in regards to misleading PR and incompetent management on most of the games they've put their hands on.

Really telling move as to how feedback/communication over this particular project has been handled overall, with a policy of radio silence seemingly being the order of the day for a fair amount of these KS projects...

There is also the matter of transparency. Far into PCars development, SMS stated that Wii U development was put on the backburner and was no longer a top priority.

A much different situation to 90's Arcade Racer which original platform was always PC and Wii U.

Eh, I wouldn't exactly say PCars situation is much better than 90sAC right now in regards to transparency on the game's development. Slightly Mad Studios' PR did say a Wii U version of the game was possible for at least two-three years, and that included the period of time when they were still accepting pledges for the game. Even when they canned the PS3/360 versions that were announced alongside the Wii U version in favor of shifting game development for the PS4/XB1, they still claimed the Wii U version was still on the table for at least another year, until reports of porting troubles arose and SMS finally admitting they had shelved development.

It's true that crowdfunding for PCars was stated in development more towards the game itself and a PC release, and you could not back the game for a console release (unlike 90sAC here); but I say SMS weren't being exactly aux fait with the truth on the circumstances regarding the Wii U version.
 
This is a reasonable stance.
Yet you got the guys from Playtonic Games saying they are making Yooka-Laylee for the Wii U because that's what the fans pledged for on the Kickstarter(when asked recently about the NX).

Then again, those guys are actually pros and give a shit about the fans.
 
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