AndyMoogle
Member
33% GPU OC... Yeah, that's not completely unrealistic at all.
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Neo upgrade musings in response to Scorpio.
- Thread starter Proelite
- Start date
autoduelist
Member
Or, iterative consoles cause another industry collapse as few early adopters jump on board and the majority that used to wait until years 3 through 5 to jump into a new gen now get cold feet to make any purchase at all because they don't want to buy a 'normal' ps4 but are priced out of the 4.5.
get2sammyb
Member
Two years means that consoles will iterate faster than the average AAA game development cycle! XD
Nonsense.
1)Sony is not starting a new gen with Neo.
They're extending the current one they are dominating with an upgrade.
2)You can't be more powerful than your competitor coming out a year before anyway, unless your competitor is called Nintendo.
3)Who cares? Once the iterative business model is in place there will be new things every two years. Even if you get the hardware crown it won't last for long, it's pointless.
4)Lowering price and reaching the mass market is way more important than higher specs.
1)Sony is not starting a new gen with Neo.
They're extending the current one they are dominating with an upgrade.
2)You can't be more powerful than your competitor coming out a year before anyway, unless your competitor is called Nintendo.
3)Who cares? Once the iterative business model is in place there will be new things every two years. Even if you get the hardware crown it won't last for long, it's pointless.
4)Lowering price and reaching the mass market is way more important than higher specs.
Outrun
Member
While I do think that in terms of CPU and RAM bandwidth we will get something more impressive than the initial leak, Sony isn't changing plans in response to a console coming out six months to a year later. They'll probably see it as a big win that they're out first and can cut the price when the next Xbox drops.
ShadowFox08
Member
platina
Member
- Xbone 100$ cheaper than ps4
- Reached mass market
- Ps4 is still dominating by a good margin
The Sum of Zero
Member
I think you need to go back and read it. Carefully. Then point out to me where it says the RAM increase was a response to XB1.
The developers saying "If you go with 4GB of GDDR5, you are done" doesn't imply shit.
Who the fuck still says pwnt anymore?
What are you talking about?
Main reason why PS4 has dominated is because it costed 100$ less than Xbox One for the first year.
And 100$ less what?
Official price is 349$ for both right now.
rokkerkory
Member
4.1tf sounds plenty fine
platina
Member
I meant currentry. I could've swore there was always a $100 difference after they dropped Kinect. My bad
BibiMaghoo
Member
I hope you are right, but where there is smoke...
_Spr_Drnk
Banned
I'm loving all this speculation, cannot wait to find out what the actual reality will be. Being XboxOneless now, I could entertain buying a revised, superior to Neo, Xbox next year then hold out for a proper PS5 in another 2-4 years. However, there's not enough must have software on XBox at the moment for me (there are a few titles though), and with the whole Windows UWP thing - Well I have a powerful PC if I got really desperate for a title, though I use it only for music production and keep it airgapped in general.
On balance, I can wait to late 2017 to see how it pans out.
On balance, I can wait to late 2017 to see how it pans out.
Obscuritas
Member
They won't play the reactionary game and they don't have to.
We have leaked documentation from developers on the guidelines Sony is putting in place for Neo and devkits has been sent out. It's happening.
Proelite
Member
What if the Neo GPU was a 25% downclocked p10 part?
First the speculation is based on the assumption that Sony would want to participate in the HP race at the cost of risking their launch, which is earlier than Scorpio and raise the BOM and ultimately temper their expectations of sales targets. For example, their internal target for a 4TFlop $399 box is 5M WW in the first year, imagine that internal target to be much lower for a 5-6TFlop $499+ box.
Once you think Sony is ready to make those sacrifices, then lets take the musings in the OP into consideration.
The memory BW (Gbps) to peak flop ratio for AMD GPUs has been steady.
The one outlier is the Tonga which had the memory compression technology so you can see it does manage to do with much less memory bandwidth compared to its raw ALU power. Imagine Polaris to be using an even newer memory compression technology so for the sake of the arguments, lets just go with Tonga's ratio.
For 4.14TFlops, Sony would need ~186Gbps. For 5.6TFlops, that figure balloons to 252Gbps. So imagine if the Neo was originally using GDDR5, they would now need GDDR5X. Doesn't seem plausible.
Next, a 33% increase in GPU clock is possible but that throws a wrench in the cooling/shell design as well as other power targets and certifications Sony would be planning for. The most I think would be done is from the low 900s to 1GHz. The safest approach I think (if Sony is such inclined) will take is bump the clocks by 10% and call it a day.
Once you think Sony is ready to make those sacrifices, then lets take the musings in the OP into consideration.
The memory BW (Gbps) to peak flop ratio for AMD GPUs has been steady.
The one outlier is the Tonga which had the memory compression technology so you can see it does manage to do with much less memory bandwidth compared to its raw ALU power. Imagine Polaris to be using an even newer memory compression technology so for the sake of the arguments, lets just go with Tonga's ratio.
For 4.14TFlops, Sony would need ~186Gbps. For 5.6TFlops, that figure balloons to 252Gbps. So imagine if the Neo was originally using GDDR5, they would now need GDDR5X. Doesn't seem plausible.
Next, a 33% increase in GPU clock is possible but that throws a wrench in the cooling/shell design as well as other power targets and certifications Sony would be planning for. The most I think would be done is from the low 900s to 1GHz. The safest approach I think (if Sony is such inclined) will take is bump the clocks by 10% and call it a day.
Not happening. Neo is going to be $399 with the reported spec, or VERY close to it.
Microsoft is essentially coming out with a whole new console, new CPU new GPU and most like a different memory architecture.
PS4 Neo is just an upgraded PS4.
Sony will save the big leap for PS5 in 2020 on 10nm FinFET. Probably 8-12 Zen Cores, double digit TF GPU and probably the 1.5x more efficient HBM2 or AMD "Nextgen Memory". shown in various roadmaps.
1+ TB/sec bandwidth, etc. Enough to power native 4K gaming and really good 2nd generation PSVR.
Microsoft is essentially coming out with a whole new console, new CPU new GPU and most like a different memory architecture.
PS4 Neo is just an upgraded PS4.
Sony will save the big leap for PS5 in 2020 on 10nm FinFET. Probably 8-12 Zen Cores, double digit TF GPU and probably the 1.5x more efficient HBM2 or AMD "Nextgen Memory". shown in various roadmaps.
1+ TB/sec bandwidth, etc. Enough to power native 4K gaming and really good 2nd generation PSVR.
Proelite
Member
After hearing this, Adam says he had a mini-breakdown, and it wasnt until he reflected on this and asked himself the question, Are we going to be the best console in every single category? before things started moving, because the answer used to be no.
Seemed pretty clear to me.
Crayon
Member
I'm inclined to agree. I don't know if neo and scorpio are quite the same thing. Sony needs to hang on to ps4 while ms has to ditch xbo.
Fine aint good enough!
Hawk269
Member
That is what I would like to know. OP says "musings", but no link and it seems like his/her own "musings", which really isn't musings.
shinobi602
Member
NEO kits are already out there lol.
kikonawa
Member
THE:MILKMAN
Member
If I could ask you given you "know" things...
Are NEO kits in addition to PS4 kits or do the NEO kits cater for both? Or at least when final kits are sent out will there just be a single kit for both?
Crayon
Member
Musings just means pondering or ass-talking. It has nothing to do with a specific source or authority.
cleveridea
Member
The problem now is that Microsoft is moving everything to simultaneous xbox one and windows 10 releases, so there arent any exclusives to buy a console for.
As an xbox one owner who primarily plays on PC where possible, then PS4 for console exclusives (incl third party exclusives) my X1 is now just going to be a box I can play sunset overdrive and thats it - there isnt anything coming out for it I wouldnt just get on windows.
If Scorpio is as powerful as rumored its going to be expensive and supporting the oculus rift - given that this would be what $1100 bundle if we are generous and say scorpio at $499, cut scorpio to $399 and it would still be $1000. Its hard to imagine anyone buying xbox one for that price when they could pay more to get a far more versatile PC.
Plus there is nothing to say Sony cant release another piece of hardware if scorpio takes off (ie they can design one just not announced it until they feel it is necessary)
As an xbox one owner who primarily plays on PC where possible, then PS4 for console exclusives (incl third party exclusives) my X1 is now just going to be a box I can play sunset overdrive and thats it - there isnt anything coming out for it I wouldnt just get on windows.
If Scorpio is as powerful as rumored its going to be expensive and supporting the oculus rift - given that this would be what $1100 bundle if we are generous and say scorpio at $499, cut scorpio to $399 and it would still be $1000. Its hard to imagine anyone buying xbox one for that price when they could pay more to get a far more versatile PC.
Plus there is nothing to say Sony cant release another piece of hardware if scorpio takes off (ie they can design one just not announced it until they feel it is necessary)
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I would recommend reading your own source and please never use pwnt again.
The Sum of Zero
Member
Are you Mister Fantastic? I can't think of anyone else that can stretch that much.
...that sounded less lame in my head but my point stands.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I'd be surprised to see Sony react in this way. The two consoles will probably be a full year apart. On top of that, Neo seems like an incremental upgrade, something for Sony to add to their lineup to complement the vanilla PS4 and stretch a few more years out of the life cycle, while the Scorpio sounds like a complete upgrade, a follow up to the XBone. I mean, people like to cry about "mid cycle upgrades" but Fall 2017 will be 4 years between Bone and Scorpio, which is the exact same amount of time between the original Xbox and the 360.
Is this 2004 runescape chat? lol
Crayon
Member
I'm on the edge of my seat.
exmachina64
Banned
When people said "the Xbox is $100 cheaper," they meant cheaper than its launch price of $500.
Tsk tsk tsk...this is where you done fucked up lol.
Sony will stay focused on their own roadmap but definitely not blind; they've learned as much. Reactionary last minute decisions though based on rumors/speculation are advised against.
Yep.
If Neo is coming in spring/summer 2017, I think it will have a decent spec bump.
Why are some people failing to understand this point? No Neo exclusive titles. All games must run on both models. The PS4 Elite console, if we can call it that, is for people who want to play their PlayStation 4 games at 60 fps instead of 30.
Microsoft is taking the opportunity to launch a new, all-powerful system that is something of a departure from the Xbox One.
half a moon
Banned
I think Sony, MS, and Nintendo are all on board for incremental upgrading.
I also think Sony knows being more powerful helped their console and I think they know how powerful the Scorpio will be and have a contingency plan to keep at least parity. They know Nintendo will be weaker no matter what. I'd be very very surprised if Scorpio is significantly more powerful.
KinofChaos
Banned
Pwnt? LOL and maybe read your source before posting, it doesn't help your argument.
Krappadizzle
Member
And it's gonna be hilarious. I'm out for mid-gen upgrades, kinda defeats the purpose of why I buy consoles. just don't care anymore. I've been primarily a PC gamer anyways so these types of upgrades are essentially nail in the coffin really.
LordOcidax
Member
No source????? wtf is this????
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