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onQ123
Junior Member
(07-22-2016, 06:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by DeepEnigma

Is that a rule for it?


Listening to Phil talk about it all being one game make me think that Scorpio games will be UWP games, so basically MS would be saying to devs why make a PC game & Xbox One game when you can make a UWP game that will play on Xbox One & high end PCs? And if you're worried about your game not looking the best on Xbox One we also have a high end Xbox One.
dragonelite
Member
(07-22-2016, 06:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

Listening to Phil talk about it all being one game make me think that Scorpio games will be UWP games, so basically MS would be saying to devs why make a PC game & Xbox One game when you can make a UWP game that will play on Xbox One & high end PCs? And if you're worried about your game not looking the best on Xbox One we also have a high end Xbox One.

UWP does not equal a windows store release. If im not mistaken an EA can ask their user to add them to their windows 10 truststore and then origin is allowed to run its signed uwp apps. Reason people don't want uwp are the current limitation to modding and
graphical settings i believe.
AmyS
Member
(07-22-2016, 06:36 AM)
Update on the AMD conference call. At 19:25 a question is asked about the accounting of the semi-custom design wins.

Lisa Su stated:

* All three SC design wins are worth worth approx. $1.5 Billion over the next 3-4 years.
* Starting the ramp of the new business this coming quarter (this 3rd quarter) that is one of the SC design wins. (I'm guessing this has to be Neo!)
* Scorpio is the one for the back half of 2017.
* We'll give you more information about the third one as we have more visibility" (NX, duh. "visibility" is obviously CEO-speak for when Nintendo reveals it!)

Note! I think just because the third design win is most likely NX, doesn't mean the related systems are coming out in that order.

Lisa made it pretty clear these 3 design wins were all for game consoles -- Because in a separate answer she was asked if there were more SC design wins not yet announced. She answered by saying:

Originally Posted by AMD Lisa Su

"Well we're trying to get out of a little bit of the counting game. but overall we're pleased with the SC pipeline. I think some of the questions we've been asked are; do we believe we have design wins outside of game consoles, and the answer is yes, we have design wins outside of game consoles, I think we view the pipeline as good and it's a business model works well with our high performance technology slant and our SoC capabilities."

The link again: http://edge.media-server.com/m/p/6mr7pafn/lan/en (enter whatever info you care to).
Last edited by AmyS; 07-22-2016 at 07:10 AM.
onQ123
Junior Member
(07-22-2016, 06:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by SneakersSO

Uhhh, what? There is zero UWP requirement for supporting Scorpio, and MS would be hella foolish to even attempt this.

This is simply another performance target that your X1 build will now feature runtime behaviors for.

Xbox One games will soon have to be made to also run in 4K & so on for Scorpio & there will be no Scorpio exclusives so most likely they will just start making Xbox One games into UWP games that could be played on Xbox One , Scorpio & PC.
c0de
next time I babble on about sales parity, just quote my tag back at me thx friend
(07-22-2016, 06:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

Xbox One games will soon have to be made to also run in 4K & so on for Scorpio & there will be no Scorpio exclusives so most likely they will just start making Xbox One games into UWP games that could be played on Xbox One , Scorpio & PC.

What?
LostDonkey
Member
(07-22-2016, 06:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by c0de

What?


Haha I was just thinking exactly the same. The things people say about 4k astound me sometimes.
onQ123
Junior Member
(07-22-2016, 07:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by c0de

What?

The games that will be made for Xbox One will soon have to be made so that they can run in 4K on Scorpio.

Scorpio games are Xbox One games it's going to be the same games.
Conduit
Banned
(07-22-2016, 07:12 AM)

Originally Posted by LukasTaves

RSX had higher flop ratings than xenos, but it would never reach in real world performance because of the separate shaders, and other architecture inefficiencies.

But even Xenos number is complete impossible even in theory, the 240 gflops comes from performing a scalar and a vec4 operation at the same time, which their shader units couldn't do.

According to Ms in one of the last gamefest presentations even late titles that really tried to push 360 didn't go further than 94 gflops in real world performance IIRC.

You mean 1.8 TFLOPS? :D
c0de
next time I babble on about sales parity, just quote my tag back at me thx friend
(07-22-2016, 07:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

The games that will be made for Xbox One will soon have to be made so that they can run in 4K on Scorpio.

Scorpio games are Xbox One games it's going to be the same games.

But there is no prove that every game for Scorpio will be 4k.
onQ123
Junior Member
(07-22-2016, 07:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by c0de

But there is no prove that every game for Scorpio will be 4k.

That's why I said & so on. but that's what Scorpio & Neo is being made for 4K .
c0de
next time I babble on about sales parity, just quote my tag back at me thx friend
(07-22-2016, 07:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

That's why I said & so on. but that's what Scorpio & Neo is being made for 4K .

They are made to deliver better graphics. Neither Sony nor MS say devs they have to make their games 4k.
Bitch Pudding
Member
(07-22-2016, 07:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by c0de

But there is no prove that every game for Scorpio will be 4k.

No, but the power specs indicate that running them XBOX One games in native 4k with no frills was part of the product requirement document.That's clever as devs can let their tools do the job of enhancing their XBOX One games, so they don't have to spent any resources on a more elaborate Scorpio mode (incl. better textures, models, KI, and so on).

Originally Posted by c0de

They are made to deliver better graphics. Neither Sony nor MS say devs they have to make their games 4k.

Phil said they don't have to, but the main proposition of Scorpio is indeed delivering 4k games, he was also very specific about that.
Last edited by Bitch Pudding; 07-22-2016 at 07:42 AM.
mike4001_
Member
(07-22-2016, 07:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bitch Pudding

Phil said they don't have to, but the main proposition of Scorpio is indeed delivering 4k games, he was also very specific about that.

What else should he say ?

"We are building a new console so 3rd party games finally run in 1080p" ?

;-)

The way I see it MS first party will go 4K because thats the "official position". 3rd party will drop X1 to 720p and make Scorpio 1080p (both with higher fidelity).

For the PS4 and Neo they can go with 900p/1080p
c0de
next time I babble on about sales parity, just quote my tag back at me thx friend
(07-22-2016, 07:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bitch Pudding

No, but the power specs indicate that running them XBOX One games in native 4k with no frills was part of the product requirement document.That's clever as devs can let their tools do the job of enhancing their XBOX One games, so they don't have to spent any resources on a more elaborate Scorpio mode (incl. better textures, models, KI, and so on).



Phil said they don't have to, but the main proposition of Scorpio is indeed delivering 4k games, he was also very specific about that.

In the end, it's up to devs if they want to render a bone game at 4k with some additional bells or if they decide for a lower resolution but putting way more stuff on the screen than just more pixels.
I think the idea is that 4k is actually possible but hopefully devs will go all in with effects instead of computing power killer resolution. And I also hope that MS also doesn't think resolution has to be important because of this gen.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
(07-22-2016, 08:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

That's why I said & so on. but that's what Scorpio & Neo is being made for 4K .

For games? The specs suggest otherwise.
Bitch Pudding
Member
(07-22-2016, 08:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by mike4001_

What else should he say ?

"We are building a new console so 3rd party games finally run in 1080p" ?

;-)

Sounds better than "you'll need a 4k TV for Scorpio, if you don't have one you should buy an XBOX One". :)

But seriously, 4k is Scorpio's big proposition, the single one Neo cannot deliver as it lacks the power to render PS4 games in 4k. I suppose that's why they ride this 4k train.
anothertech
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(07-22-2016, 08:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bitch Pudding

Sounds better than "you'll need a 4k TV for Scorpio, if you don't have one you should buy an XBOX One". :)

But seriously, 4k is Scorpio's big proposition, the single one Neo cannot deliver as it lacks the power to render PS4 games in 4k. I suppose that's why they ride this 4k train.

Not sure if 6tf is enough to render 4K native tbh. Despite their marketing.
mike4001_
Member
(07-22-2016, 08:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by anothertech

Not sure if 6tf is enough to render 4K native tbh. Despite their marketing.

At 30 fps its not a problem.

PC is doing it for years with the GTX 980 Ti which is ~ 6TFs

Also adding that console games are more optimized than PC games, games with "current" graphical fidelity should run at 4K / 30 fps on Scorpio.
dragonelite
Member
(07-22-2016, 08:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by anothertech

Not sure if 6tf is enough to render 4K native tbh. Despite their marketing.

I think Microsoft will provide/mandate some graphics API for a optimized version of what quantum break and rainbow six use to reconstruct. Just dump your 1080p frame data(temporal frame data and msaa samples?) here we will do the rest to reconstruct a 4k image. Probably has a small fixed cost of GPU time and memory. Means developers can focus on 1080p for Scorpio and neo. Or developer can focus on 4k and super sample a 1080p image from it.
Luigiv
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(07-22-2016, 08:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by anothertech

This right here is the kicker.

Nobody knows the CPU solutions for either. But we all know the current cpu's are bottlenecks. These could be the real tie breakers in regards to fps and open worlds.

GPU wise 4.23 vs 6 will be noticeable but really not by much more than this gen.

RAM wise they will also be closer than current gen.

CPU though, that could make for some interesting comparison.

If Neo goes jag+ and Scorpio goes zen, there could be some major differences performance wise, but price will favor Neo absolutely. If both stick with jag+, the bottlenecks will be there for both but the prices will stay low. If both go Zen, Neo might price itself over the market more than Scorpio, but the performance on both would be incredible.

I feel like the first is most probable, unless Sony really pulls some magic out of a hat.

I doubt Scorpio will use Zen. We already know Scorpio is still using an octocore and I can't see an octocore Zen APU being realistic in this scenario, unless they're planning to go with a launch PS3-like TDP budget. It would also be completely overkill for a system that's suppose to share it's library with the Xbone.
Last edited by Luigiv; 07-22-2016 at 09:43 AM.
c0de
next time I babble on about sales parity, just quote my tag back at me thx friend
(07-22-2016, 08:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by anothertech

Not sure if 6tf is enough to render 4K native tbh. Despite their marketing.

Of course it is enough. Games won't look much better though.
c0de
next time I babble on about sales parity, just quote my tag back at me thx friend
(07-22-2016, 08:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Luigiv

I doubt Scorpio will use Zen. We already know Scorpio is still using an octocore, I can't see an octocore Zen APU being realistic in this scenario, unless they're planning to go with a launch PS3-like TDP budget. It would also be completely overkill for a system that's suppose to share it's library with the Xbone.

What do we know about its CPU for sure?!
Luigiv
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(07-22-2016, 08:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by c0de

What do we know about its CPU for sure?!

That's it's an AMD octocore and that it's integrated onto the same chip as the GPU in an APU. Other than that, the rest is speculation, including my post above. I could be wrong, but I just don't see a 200-250W APU being a good choice for a gaming console.
c0de
next time I babble on about sales parity, just quote my tag back at me thx friend
(07-22-2016, 08:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Luigiv

That's it's an AMD octocore and that it's integrated onto the same chip as the GPU in an APU. Other than that, the rest is speculation, including my post above. I could be wrong, but that's just the way I see things.

T
I don't see any proof for an octacore.
ekim
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(07-22-2016, 08:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by c0de

T
I don't see any proof for an octacore.

Well they said it has 8 cores.
Luigiv
Member
(07-22-2016, 08:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by c0de

T
I don't see any proof for an octacore.

Read the OP/Watch the E3 video again. It's right there, "8 core".
Last edited by Luigiv; 07-22-2016 at 09:40 AM.
CyberPunked
Member
(07-22-2016, 08:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by mike4001_

At 30 fps its not a problem.

PC is doing it for years with the GTX 980 Ti which is ~ 6TFs

Also adding that console games are more optimized than PC games, games with "current" graphical fidelity should run at 4K / 30 fps on Scorpio.

Wow, this misconception is still on going? This thread should really have, 'Nvidia Flops =/= AMD Flops' in the OT.
geordiemp
Member
(07-22-2016, 08:55 AM)

Originally Posted by c0de

T
I don't see any proof for an octacore.

Other than MS saying its an 8 core CPU at the MS E3 conference ?
mike4001_
Member
(07-22-2016, 09:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by CyberPunked

Wow, this misconception is still on going? This thread should really have, 'Nvidia Flops =/= AMD Flops' in the OT.

If I compare benchmarks of the RX 480 (5 TFs) with the GTX 980 (6 TFs), the latter one is about 10% faster.

Sounds about comparable to me with an error of about 10% which is basically nothing at the end of the day.

And as I have written, consoles have the advantage of a much more optimized version and coding to the metal.
onQ123
Junior Member
(07-22-2016, 09:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by c0de

They are made to deliver better graphics. Neither Sony nor MS say devs they have to make their games 4k.

Watch the video Scorpio was made for 4K & look at the PDF NEO was made for 4K

https://youtu.be/eCFig7lGyEs?t=2m


Originally Posted by mike4001_

What else should he say ?

"We are building a new console so 3rd party games finally run in 1080p" ?

;-)

The way I see it MS first party will go 4K because thats the "official position". 3rd party will drop X1 to 720p and make Scorpio 1080p (both with higher fidelity).

For the PS4 and Neo they can go with 900p/1080p

Originally Posted by OrbitalMatrix

For games? The specs suggest otherwise.




c0de
next time I babble on about sales parity, just quote my tag back at me thx friend
(07-22-2016, 09:15 AM)
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Beaten to Death😀
Wonder how many will be available for games, same applies to ram.
Xyphie
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(07-22-2016, 09:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Luigiv

I doubt Scorpio will use Zen. We already know Scorpio is still using an octocore, I can't see an octocore Zen APU being realistic in this scenario, unless they're planning to go with a launch PS3-like TDP budget. It would also be completely overkill for a system that's suppose to share it's library with the Xbone.

Many Gaffers in this thread have unfortunately already set themselves up for disappointment expecting Scorpio's CPU to basically have 6900K performance. If Scorpio uses 8-core Zen it will be a stripped down mobile version with probably less L3 cache, clock speed around 1.5GHz and so on. Think Core M competitor.
Hesemonni
Banned
(07-22-2016, 09:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Xyphie

Many Gaffers in this thread have unfortunately already set themselves up for disappointment expecting Scorpio's CPU to basically have 6900K performance. If Scorpio uses 8-core Zen it will be a stripped down mobile version with probably less L3 cache, clock speed around 1.5GHz and so on. Think Core M competitor.

Never underestimate the power of hyperbolic fanboy dreamworld paired with denial.

In the end, it's always according to the grand plan and always better than the competition.
Bitch Pudding
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(07-22-2016, 09:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

Watch the video Scorpio was made for 4K & look at the PDF NEO was made for 4K

We are just two months away from the first PS4 games with Neo mode. September is going to be interesting™...
MilkyJoe
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(07-22-2016, 09:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

The games that will be made for Xbox One will soon have to be made so that they can run in 4K on Scorpio.

Scorpio games are Xbox One games it's going to be the same games.

I can't tell if you are drunk or deliberately acting uninformed.

Phil has said that 4K will not be a mandate for developers and they can use the power however they want.

All this nonsense about Scorpio will just play xbox games but in 4K is you deluding yourself. Why do you even care?


https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/74...rc=twsrc%5Etfw


Phil Spencer
@XboxP3
@ThatDudeizEric We'll talk more about this later but we never said we'd mandate 4K framebuffer, we w
on't.

Now for the love of god, will you stop with this rhetoric

I thought you were better than that.
Last edited by MilkyJoe; 07-22-2016 at 09:45 AM.
Detective
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(07-22-2016, 09:45 AM)
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Wouldn't this work like pc settings?

Medium
Hight
Ultra

A game would be scaleable according to the hardware.
MilkyJoe
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(07-22-2016, 09:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Detective

Wouldn't this work like pc settings?

Medium
Hight
Ultra

A game would be scaleable according to the hardware.

Yeah they have already said this is how it will be, even used the words scalable, but agendas want Scorpio to be hobbled
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
(07-22-2016, 09:56 AM)
It would be a waste to mandate 4k, as long as the image quality is noticeably better than current consoles, that alone would be enough to market to consumers.
Detective
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(07-22-2016, 10:05 AM)
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Just like a game wouldn't mandate 4K on pc it wouldn't for Scorpio.

Developers is free to make the game only on 1080 ultra everything only, Or include 4K texture or whatever on Scorpio that the player can choose from.

I hope Scorpio will include Graphics settings.
onQ123
Junior Member
(07-22-2016, 10:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by MilkyJoe

I can't tell if you are drunk or deliberately acting uninformed.

Phil has said that 4K will not be a mandate for developers and they can use the power however they want.

All this nonsense about Scorpio will just play xbox games but in 4K is you deluding yourself. Why do you even care?


https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/74...rc=twsrc%5Etfw


Phil Spencer
@XboxP3
@ThatDudeizEric We'll talk more about this later but we never said we'd mandate 4K framebuffer, we w
on't.

Now for the love of god, will you stop with this rhetoric

I thought you were better than that.

I don't drink or smoke & what does my post have to do with games not having to be 4K? the point is that Xbox One games will be made to run on both consoles with different settings.

did you even watch the video?
MilkyJoe
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(07-22-2016, 10:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

I don't drink or smoke & what does my post have to do with games not having to be 4K? the point is that Xbox One games will be made to run on both consoles with different settings.

did you even watch the video?

Oh my days...

the game will be on Xbox one and Scorpio, no different than a game being on Xbox one, PS4 or PC

The game will be scalable according to the hardware. The games do not have to be in 4K on the Scorpio, this means that the Scorpio version can look vastly superior to the Xbox One version if the devs choose to use the Scorpio power for graphics and effects over resolution.
onQ123
Junior Member
(07-22-2016, 10:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by MilkyJoe

Oh my days...

the game will be on Xbox one and Scorpio, no different than a game being on Xbox one, PS4 or PC

The game will be scalable according to the hardware. The games do not have to be in 4K on the Scorpio, this means that the Scorpio version can look vastly superior to the Xbox One version if the devs choose to use the Scorpio power for graphics and effects over resolution.


What are you even talking about? my point was that Xbox One games will soon be Xbox One & Scorpio games because it's going to be the same game but made to run in 4K & so on on the Xbox Scorpio. this is fact so what are you trying to argue? just because some devs will make games that are not 4K does not change the point so what are you getting at?
krang
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(07-22-2016, 10:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

What are you even talking about? my point was that Xbox One games will soon be Xbox One & Scorpio games because it's going to be the same game but made to run in 4K & so on on the Xbox Scorpio. this is fact so what are you trying to argue? just because some devs will make games that are not 4K does not change the point so what are you getting at?

Extra particles, better AA, motion blur, frame rate, etc.

Games won't be forced to be 4K and there's other stuff that the developer can do to make their game look good other than just a resolution bump.
onQ123
Junior Member
(07-22-2016, 10:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by krang

Extra particles, better AA, motion blur, frame rate, etc.

Games won't be forced to be 4K and there's other stuff that the developer can do to make their game look good other than just a resolution bump.


What does any of this have to do with what I'm saying?
krang
Member
(07-22-2016, 10:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

What does any of this have to do with what I'm saying?

I'm not entirely sure how to read those words in that order and interpret them in any other way, to be honest.
MilkyJoe
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(07-22-2016, 10:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

What are you even talking about? my point was that Xbox One games will soon be Xbox One & Scorpio games because it's going to be the same game but made to run in 4K & so on on the Xbox Scorpio. this is fact so what are you trying to argue? just because some devs will make games that are not 4K does not change the point so what are you getting at?

Err...

Originally Posted by onQ123

The games that will be made for Xbox One will soon have to be made so that they can run in 4K on Scorpio.

Scorpio games are Xbox One games it's going to be the same games.

You have been implying this for days, spreading the nonsense that xbox one games will have to be in 4K on Scorpio so they wont look great, then when someone calls you out, you then change your tune

Originally Posted by onQ123

That's why I said & so on. but that's what Scorpio & Neo is being made for 4K .

The you get right back on the horse

Originally Posted by onQ123

Watch the video Scorpio was made for 4K & look at the PDF NEO was made for 4K

https://youtu.be/eCFig7lGyEs?t=2m

And then you give it all that people are misunderstanding you.


Lets finish this right now

Scorpio can run 4K but the games will not be top of the range visually

Scorpio games in 1400 or 1080 are going to look fucking great

https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/74...rc=twsrc%5Etfw


Phil Spencer
‏@XboxP3
@ThatDudeizEric We'll talk more about this later but we never said we'd mandate 4K framebuffer, we won't.


So now start talking about something else, will you?
dragonelite
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(07-22-2016, 11:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Xyphie

Many Gaffers in this thread have unfortunately already set themselves up for disappointment expecting Scorpio's CPU to basically have 6900K performance. If Scorpio uses 8-core Zen it will be a stripped down mobile version with probably less L3 cache, clock speed around 1.5GHz and so on. Think Core M competitor.

People were talking about a zen-lite chip set in the Neo thread as a rumored second build for Sony to release.
Dee Dah Dave
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(07-22-2016, 11:13 AM)
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Scorpio games will look the same as Neo games as a baseline. With maybe better graphics, higher resolution or a combination of the two due to the better hardware.

No way will there be a gorgeous Neo game, with the Scorpio version having weaker graphics yet higher pixel count. It ain't gonna happen. Competition and Digital Foundry analysis won't allow it!

With that said, I think native 4K can be considered a graphics boost itself. It gives games a whole new crisp look that has to be seen in order to appreciate.
onQ123
Junior Member
(07-22-2016, 11:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by krang

I'm not entirely sure how to read those words in that order and interpret them in any other way, to be honest.

I'm saying that Xbox One games will soon be Xbox One\Xbox Scorpio games. It will be the same game but now it will be made in a way so that it can play in 4K & so on on Xbox Scorpio.


People started talking about Xbox Scorpio isn't for 4K I posted the video to prove that it is. (this does not mean that it will only do 4K, I'm not even sure how y'all even come to the conclusion that I'm saying that it's only for 4K, but the fact is that it was made for 4K just like the PS4 Neo was made for 4K.)


Originally Posted by MilkyJoe

Err...



You have been implying this for days, spreading the nonsense that xbox one games will have to be in 4K on Scorpio so they wont look great, then when someone calls you out, you then change your tune



The you get right back on the horse



And then you give it all that people are misunderstanding you.


Lets finish this right now

Scorpio can run 4K but the games will not be top of the range visually

Scorpio games in 1400 or 1080 are going to look fucking great

https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/74...rc=twsrc%5Etfw


Phil Spencer
‏@XboxP3
@ThatDudeizEric We'll talk more about this later but we never said we'd mandate 4K framebuffer, we won't.


So now start talking about something else, will you?

Where am I saying that Xbox Scorpio has to be in 4K? I'm telling you that Xbox One games will be made so that they can run in 4K & so on on Scorpio.

So on means that it can do other things too but 4K is the main reason for Scorpio & Neo.


And please show me where I said the games will not look great. you're making stuff up & having your own little battle with yourself about something you think I said.
MilkyJoe
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(07-22-2016, 11:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by onQ123

I'm saying that Xbox One games will soon be Xbox One\Xbox Scorpio games. It will be the same game but now it will be made in a way so that it can play in 4K & so on on Xbox Scorpio.


People started talking about Xbox Scorpio isn't for 4K I posted the video to prove that it is. (this does not mean that it will only do 4K, I'm not even sure how y'all even come to the conclusion that I'm saying that it's only for 4K, but the fact is that it was made for 4K just like the PS4 Neo was made for 4K.)




Where am I saying that Xbox Scorpio has to be in 4K? I'm telling you that Xbox One games will be made so that they can run in 4K & so on on Scorpio.

So on means that it can do other things to but 4K is the main reason for Scorpio & Neo.

I can see why you got busted down to Junior

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