• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

After seeing how amazing sony's games looked at E3 i'm wishing Neo gets upgraded

pottuvoi

Banned
For what ? Playing movies ?

Games will not run 4k & that is for sure .
Really depends what kind of 4k.

Brute force 4k will be though for intensive games.

Happily there are plenty of ways to get full edge quality and do shading in lower resolution.
IE. MSAA trick which would be gorgeous with a full resolution TAA pass and resolve.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Given the lower specs of Neo and that a lot here are calling for 1080P/60, could Sony incorporate some tech (upscaling) from the X1 processor that is in there 4K HDR TV's into Neo?
 
Comment makes no sense at all. Simply don't but it then. Let other people buy it if they want to.


And this doesn't make sense either. You say these games already look amazing. You will get a new console in a few months that is ~2.5x more powerful. And for whatever reason now you want it would be even more powerful? For what? For the 4K resolution? ~2.5x is more than enough to make it 2.5x more amazing :p
So yeah, Sony does not really need to upgrade the specs any further. It will launch in a few months already.

i stated a number of times the specs will not run vanilla ps4 games at 60fps, because of the cpu, it will be too difficult, and i don't see developers making a huge effort on it, now if ps4k gets a cpu upgrade, i can see most games running 60fps on ps4k, that's all i want.
 

orochi91

Member
Exactly. You state the games look amazing so why do u need a neo.

They would look ever better on NEO.

I hope Sony continues to offer a premium model once the PS5 launches.

Playing all their exclusives on the highest fidelity possible makes me excited for the premium variant.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
i stated a number of times the specs will not run vanilla ps4 games at 60fps, because of the cpu, it will be too difficult, and i don't see developers making a huge effort on it, now if ps4k gets a cpu upgrade, i can see most games running 60fps on ps4k, that's all i want.

Have any devs complained about Jaguar specifically limiting them? I can't recall any but I do remember a ton of complaints about Cell being a nightmare from third parties.

I would love to see CPU profile graphs for PS4's CPU usage like we used to see with Cell's SPU usage. The only one I remember seeing for PS4 is one for Killzone: Shadow Fall.
 
The big challenge for Sony - and I think Microsoft played their card perfectly - is that the PS4K is going to quickly attach the moniker of being "underpowered" in comparison to Microsoft's thing which is still a way off.

In reality, my understanding is that it's still quite a meaty step up from the existing PS4, no?
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Andrew House just confirm he want Neo release this year on a Japan interview, no time for upgrade.

Really....that is actually surprising given his previous comments about how 'elegant' Apple's release now model is! Unless....No way.

Is there a link to this? Thanks.
 
Have any devs complained about Jaguar specifically limiting them? I can't recall any but I do remember a ton of complaints about Cell being a nightmare from third parties.

I would love to see CPU profile graphs for PS4's CPU usage like we used to see with Cell's SPU usage. The only one I remember seeing for PS4 is one for Killzone: Shadow Fall.

i'm just going by what DF and tech heads here are saying on neogaf, they say the cpu will be not able to run ps4 games at 60fps, and if there saying that then we know it won't be something easy to do, and doubt developers will push or try to make it 60fps.
 

wapplew

Member
Really....that is actually surprising given his previous comments about how 'elegant' Apple's release now model is! Unless....No way.

Is there a link to this? Thanks.

No link, just read that on some Chinese forum with full Japanese transcript and translation.
 
Andrew House just confirm he want Neo release this year on a Japan interview, no time for upgrade.

tumblr_n3pq17Em7A1qikmd9o1_500.gif


i'm gonna looking into building a pc, fuck that garbage upgrade.
 

Hermii

Member
Also, yeah, this.

MS is targeting 4K console gaming with Scorpio. Sony is targeting 1080/60.

Is this based on hopes and dreams, or do you have a source? I suspect the first. If the framerate is cpu limited they wont run 60 on Neo.

My prediction is the only upcoming 1080p 60 console for most first party games is the NX.
 
Is this based on hopes and dreams, or do you have a source? I suspect the first. If the framerate is cpu limited they wont run 60 on Neo.

My prediction is the only upcoming 1080p 60 console for most first party games is the NX.

Perhaps I shouldn't have put 60 there. I had simply assumed that was what was being aimed at.
 

Hermii

Member
Have any devs complained about Jaguar specifically limiting them? I can't recall any but I do remember a ton of complaints about Cell being a nightmare from third parties.

I would love to see CPU profile graphs for PS4's CPU usage like we used to see with Cell's SPU usage. The only one I remember seeing for PS4 is one for Killzone: Shadow Fall.

AC Unity devs did.
 

benzopil

Member
Doom, Mirror's Edge, Metro and other games are 60 fps already. If developers don't want to (or can't) add higher framerate now, they won't do it with more powerful console.
 

wapplew

Member
Maybe he meant financial year?

040723_MNightShyamalan_bcol_2p.grid-4x2.jpg

Could be, he say he want Neo release this year so that they can achieve 20m target.

Some points
- Neo is for 2 niche group, customer with 4K TV but without 4K content, customer who want better graphic.

- No smart phone cycle, want to maintain stable environment for developers.

- Not a new gen, just provide a premium option. Outside graphical performance no other advantages compare to PS4, experience will be same. (Might be talk about multiplayer level play field)

- Neo is NOT because of VR, VR experience will be the same 60fps, but watching VR video will be better.

- Neo does not add too much extra work for dev, development environment still same as PS4.
 

orochi91

Member
Could be, he say he want Neo release this year so that they can achieve 20m target.

Some points
- Neo is for 2 niche group, customer with 4K TV but without 4K content, customer who want better graphic.

- No smart phone cycle, want to maintain stable environment for developers.

- No new gen, just provide a premium option. Outside graphical performance no other advantages compare to PS4, experience with be same. (Might be talk about multiplayer level play field)

- Neo is because of VR, VR experience will be the same 60fps, but watching VR video will be better.

- Neo does not add too much extra work for dev, development environment still same as PS4.

- PS4 will get price cut when Neo launch.

Sounds like music to my ears!

Thanks for this great bit of info.
 

d9b

Banned
Could be, he say he want Neo release this year so that they can achieve 20m target.

Some points
- Neo is for 2 niche group, customer with 4K TV but without 4K content, customer who want better graphic.

- No smart phone cycle, want to maintain stable environment for developers.

- Not a new gen, just provide a premium option. Outside graphical performance no other advantages compare to PS4, experience with be same. (Might be talk about multiplayer level play field)

- Neo is NOT because of VR, VR experience will be the same 60fps, but watching VR video will be better.

- Neo does not add too much extra work for dev, development environment still same as PS4.

- PS4 will get price cut when Neo launch.

Excellent! Link for original Japanese interview?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Could be, he say he want Neo release this year so that they can achieve 20m target.

Some points
- Neo is for 2 niche group, customer with 4K TV but without 4K content, customer who want better graphic.

- No smart phone cycle, want to maintain stable environment for developers.

- Not a new gen, just provide a premium option. Outside graphical performance no other advantages compare to PS4, experience will be same. (Might be talk about multiplayer level play field)

- Neo is NOT because of VR, VR experience will be the same 60fps, but watching VR video will be better.

- Neo does not add too much extra work for dev, development environment still same as PS4.

- PS4 will get price cut when Neo launch.

Can you link? I'm kind of surprised he would talk about price cuts before they're actually announcing it.

edit - thank you!
 

RikkTheGaijin

Capcom Artist
I find amusing that everyone here is assuming that all the games showed at E3 were running on a regular PS4. Like it never happened before that devs were using a powerful PC to showcase what was THEIR VISION of the games. Are you aware that big studios already have the PSNeo devkit? Well, they do. And so there are no proofs that games like GoW or Days Gone weren't already running on a Neo devkit, because maybe the regular PS4 can't handle that graphic.
I'm not saying that that's what happened, I'm just warning you to keep an open mind on the possibility that game companies sometimes cheat when it comes to show impressive footage. Ubisoft anyone?
 
I find amusing that everyone here is assuming that all the games showed at E3 were running on a regular PS4.

It's almost as if we've played games that look like that on the PS4.

But back to the main topic, the people who are expecting a bunch of Neo games to get upgraded to 60 FPS are going to be disappointed, if the game was going to be 60 FPS it would be 60 FPS on the regular PS4.
 

wapplew

Member
I find amusing that everyone here is assuming that all the games showed at E3 were running on a regular PS4. Like it never happened before that devs were using a powerful PC to showcase what was THEIR VISION of the games. Are you aware that big studios already have the PSNeo devkit? Well, they do. And so there are no proofs that games like GoW or Days Gone weren't already running on a Neo devkit, because maybe the regular PS4 can't handle that graphic.
I'm not saying that that's what happened, I'm just warning you to keep an open mind on the possibility that game companies sometimes cheat when it comes to show impressive footage. Ubisoft anyone?

They have behind close door or hands on session for GoW, Horizon and Detriot, several Sony rep and insomniac rep said they all play on PS4.
But we never know, maybe give them some benefit of doubt? Cause we know what PS4 can do with Uncharted 4 and others game.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward

I'm only looking at a Google Translate, but I think regarding release timing and pricing

- he's suggesting the 20m target for this fiscal year is a reflection of the move to appeal to higher end users as well as normal demand - e.g. a reflection of Neo, and a reflection of expected trade-ups from the standard PS4 among some existing owners. So you could take it that he's indicating a release in this fiscal year, by March 2017, but not necessarily this calendar year. Although I suppose it's a good guess that it would be out before the holidays.

- on pricing he doesn't quite say that there'll be a price cut on the standard PS4, but that there'll be a pricing difference between the standard and Neo units. That could be manifested either by a price cut or a higher Neo price or both - it's not necessarily, though, confirmation of a price cut on the standard unit.
 

d9b

Banned
I find amusing that everyone here is assuming that all the games showed at E3 were running on a regular PS4. Like it never happened before that devs were using a powerful PC to showcase what was THEIR VISION of the games. Are you aware that big studios already have the PSNeo devkit? Well, they do. And so there are no proofs that games like GoW or Days Gone weren't already running on a Neo devkit, because maybe the regular PS4 can't handle that graphic.
I'm not saying that that's what happened, I'm just warning you to keep an open mind on the possibility that game companies sometimes cheat when it comes to show impressive footage. Ubisoft anyone?

Did you play Uncharted 4 on vanilla PS4?
 

OCD Guy

Member
The big challenge for Sony - and I think Microsoft played their card perfectly - is that the PS4K is going to quickly attach the moniker of being "underpowered" in comparison to Microsoft's thing which is still a way off.

The thing is the PS4 is killing it in terms of sales, and I feel the Neo will still outsell the equivalent Xbox.

No matter what Microsoft do there are markets that are averse towards the Xbox brand and even if Microsoft gave the Xbox away in those territories they'd still be behind.

Honestly, I don't feel any significant difference when playing 30fps v 60fps. .


I've personally not been able to understand when people say they can't notice a big difference in framerate. Playing a game like Just Cause 3 or The Crew and then moving onto a 60fps game is night and day difference in motion and fluidity.

But as most people have stated, the reality is that developers will likely focus on keeping a stable 30fps and higher graphical settings. With each new console there's always talk of 60fps games but it NEVER happens. The majority are always 30fps, most of them struggle to even maintain 30fps.

In all honesty I could live with slightly worse graphics and 60fps. I would love the day where Sony and MS make it mandatory that games must be 60fps.
 

wapplew

Member
I'm only looking at a Google Translate, but I think regarding release timing and pricing

- he's suggesting the 20m target for this fiscal year is a reflection of the move to appeal to higher end users as well as normal demand - e.g. a reflection of Neo, and a reflection of expected trade-ups from the standard PS4 among some existing owners. So you could take it that he's indicating a release in this fiscal year, by March 2017, but not necessarily this calendar year. Although I suppose it's a good guess that it would be out before the holidays.

- on pricing he doesn't quite say that there'll be a price cut on the standard PS4, but that there'll be a pricing difference between the standard and Neo units. That could be manifested either by a price cut or a higher Neo price or both - it's not necessarily, though, confirmation of a price cut on the standard unit.

Ya, could be mistranslated on the price cut, I'll remove that one.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
I want ps4 games running at 4K/ 60 fps. I hope they do whatever is needed to make that happen.

To take 1080p/30 PS4 games to 4K/60fps would probably require a 12Tflop+ system with HBM or HBM2.

e.g. a 'Trinity' revision in another 2 or 3 years, if not a PS5.
 

viHuGi

Banned
Could be, he say he want Neo release this year so that they can achieve 20m target.

Some points
- Neo is for 2 niche group, customer with 4K TV but without 4K content, customer who want better graphic.

- No smart phone cycle, want to maintain stable environment for developers.

- Not a new gen, just provide a premium option. Outside graphical performance no other advantages compare to PS4, experience will be same. (Might be talk about multiplayer level play field)

- Neo is NOT because of VR, VR experience will be the same 60fps, but watching VR video will be better.

- Neo does not add too much extra work for dev, development environment still same as PS4.

Better graphics and much more stable performance, day 1.

Can't wait for this baby.
 

orochi91

Member
I find amusing that everyone here is assuming that all the games showed at E3 were running on a regular PS4. Like it never happened before that devs were using a powerful PC to showcase what was THEIR VISION of the games. Are you aware that big studios already have the PSNeo devkit? Well, they do. And so there are no proofs that games like GoW or Days Gone weren't already running on a Neo devkit, because maybe the regular PS4 can't handle that graphic.
I'm not saying that that's what happened, I'm just warning you to keep an open mind on the possibility that game companies sometimes cheat when it comes to show impressive footage. Ubisoft anyone?
False.

That NEO thing was debunked already.
 

wapplew

Member
The big challenge for Sony - and I think Microsoft played their card perfectly - is that the PS4K is going to quickly attach the moniker of being "underpowered" in comparison to Microsoft's thing which is still a way off.

In reality, my understanding is that it's still quite a meaty step up from the existing PS4, no?

I don't know about played their card perfectly, if they show games running on Scorpio with crazy graphic super impressive, maybe.Without actual graphical comparison, 6TF vs 4.3TF will not leave a lasting effect.

When Sony show Neo and games running on it, it will look better than PS4 people will get hype and buy it. We don't know how will the market react, could be too late for MS 1 year later. Especially when both machine will not have exclusive to push the adoption rate.
 

viHuGi

Banned
The thing is the PS4 is killing it in terms of sales, and I feel the Neo will still outsell the equivalent Xbox.

No matter what Microsoft do there are markets that are averse towards the Xbox brand and even if Microsoft gave the Xbox away in those territories they'd still be behind.

Of course Neo will outsell Scorpio, 2 to 1 at least.

Playstation brand these days is too strong WW, XBox is very strong but only in Americas
 

Alexious

Member
There's no real "PS4K" name. Besides, like the poster above me said, it could just as well be referring to multimedia and smaller titles.

If DigitalFoundry's speculation is correct, the Neo's GPU is going to be about 40% less powerful than Scorpio's. Why not focus on 1080 to get the absolute most out of the hardware instead of trying to do 4K titles when the hardware probably isn't up for it at playable framerates?

There's a middle ground, you know. With 4K TVs slowly becoming common in 2017, it would be a massive problem to keep games at 1080P - as a 4K display owner, I can tell you that 1080P upscaled to 4K kind of sucks.

1440P is definitely better and surely in the range of PS4 Neo's capabilities.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
I want the Neo to have a OS option that lets me choose between 1080/60fps or 1080/(30fps) with additional effects or 4K/(30fps)PS4 standard gfx.

I do not care what that would mean for developers. Just do it.
 
I'm only looking at a Google Translate, but I think regarding release timing and pricing

- he's suggesting the 20m target for this fiscal year is a reflection of the move to appeal to higher end users as well as normal demand - e.g. a reflection of Neo, and a reflection of expected trade-ups from the standard PS4 among some existing owners. So you could take it that he's indicating a release in this fiscal year, by March 2017, but not necessarily this calendar year. Although I suppose it's a good guess that it would be out before the holidays.

- on pricing he doesn't quite say that there'll be a price cut on the standard PS4, but that there'll be a pricing difference between the standard and Neo units. That could be manifested either by a price cut or a higher Neo price or both - it's not necessarily, though, confirmation of a price cut on the standard unit.

so there is still a chance for a upgrade?
search


i'm reading the translation, and the mention competing with PC, then they must upgrade or this just becomes a bad joke.
 

OCD Guy

Member
Of course Neo will outsell Scorpio, 2 to 1 at least.

Playstation brand these days is too strong WW, XBox is very strong but only in Americas

Absolutely.

I just find it funny that there are people who assume the answer to Microsofts problems is simply making a more powerful console.

The issue with releasing later is I bet you anything that by the time the "Scorpio" launches Sony will have a nice little price drop on the Neo for a maximum kick in the balls lol. Because there will likely be about a year from when the Neo releases (if it's around October 2016) and when the Scorpio releases in the holidays of 2017.
 

geordiemp

Member
Have any devs complained about Jaguar specifically limiting them? I can't recall any but I do remember a ton of complaints about Cell being a nightmare from third parties.

I would love to see CPU profile graphs for PS4's CPU usage like we used to see with Cell's SPU usage. The only one I remember seeing for PS4 is one for Killzone: Shadow Fall.

No need to, we already have demanding games dropping from 30 FPS (see witcher 3 etc etc).Even Naughty dog targeted 60 FPS in Uncharted 4 and had to go back to 30.

1080p is a good resolution for the Ps4 GPU cores, so its got to be bandwidth OR / And CPU. And its widely known Jaguar is very low instruction per clock weak and low powered CPU.

Yes we are guessing but even the oririsblack first Neo leak said sony had option B with a stronger CPU for the Neo. It all points to the CPU sherlock.
 

wapplew

Member
Absolutely.

I just find it funny that there are people who assume the answer to Microsofts problems is simply making a more powerful console.

The issue with releasing later is I bet you anything that by the time the "Scorpio" launches Sony will have a nice little price drop on the Neo for a maximum kick in the balls ol. Because there will likely be about a year from when the Neo releases (if it's around October 2016) and when the Scorpio releases in the holidays of 2017.

Nah, people hype about Scorpio simply because of the power, no one think it will turn things around.
 
Top Bottom