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[SPOILERS] Zero Time Dilemma Spoiler Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Yasumi

Banned
WARNING This is the spoiler thread.

It's recommended that you finish the game before participating in this thread, if you do not wish to be spoiled.

There will be open spoilers.

cxOLDyA.png


Since people already have the game, and spoilers are starting to seep into the review thread, please try and keep any late-game story discussion in here.

KbeiP14.gif
 

Mohasus

Member
Is it me or some things only happen when you check/click twice? They have some conversation, but nothing crucial, and then the second time the magic happens.

Fuck, I got stuck in every puzzle I tried because I missed something even though I was sure I checked it before.
 

Joey Ravn

Banned
Subbed! Ready to have my mind blown again :)

Edit: Well, the thread has been ruined for me. I can't risk it. It seems the common courtesy of using spoiler tags went right out the window not five posts into the thread, despite the OP clearly saying that they are needed. I'll switch to the OT once it's up and continue the discussion there.
 

Gvitor

Member
Yessss

Ok, before I start talking about anything about the main story, I need to tell a stupid story that happened to me.

(late-game spoilers)
D team's force quit box, a mother's memento. Brooch was fairly simple, but the second one simply slayed me for a very stupid reason. They only mention the name of the item once, "blue bird music box", so I tried bluebird, musicbox, and nothing worked, the thing had 9 letters. I searched for synonymous in the internet, nothing worked. I rewatched the part where they show the mementos a bunch of times trying to think of different things, also nothing.

I need to say that even though this ain't an excuse for my stupidity in this moment, that english is not my main language. I'm fairly good at it and I understand it just fine, but I thought there should be a word for the item that I've never heard before that should be obvious, hence my jumps to the bizarre logic that follows:

I switched the audio to japanese to listen to what they said in japanese. They say オルゴール (orugo-ru), which literally means music box, but it is a foreign word, a romanization of "orgel", a flemish (dutch variant) that means organ. So I even tried stuff like birdorgan (as stupid as it sounds, but it had 9 letters!), but no dice.

...eventually I realized the keyboard had a space button, and the correct answer would be Blue_Bird. Music_Box probably would work as well. This probably took me an hour, not even kidding.
 
Beat the game last night. Still processing.

...eventually I realized the keyboard had a space button, and the correct answer would be Blue_Bird. Music_Box probably would work as well. This probably took me an hour, not even kidding.

I can confirm that Music Box also worked. Interesting that they both work.

Once the OT is up I'll try to help with puzzles. I'm helping out on the puzzle thread on gamefaqs, and someone was asking about these same passwords today.
 

Joey Ravn

Banned
I'm doing the
Biolab
area with Team Q and I noticed something funny related to the status screen:
all the characters look like chibi or toy versions of themselves. I don't remember seeing those "avatars" with the other teams, but maybe I missed it
. Kinda funny. I hope it gets explained later on.


So, the first time Q talked, I thought I recognized the voice. He's
Qwark
, right?

Dudes. Use spoiler tags, even for personal theories. It says so right in the OP! This is not a "free spoiler" thread. You need to use tags.
 

Gvitor

Member
I'm doing the
Biolab
area with Team Q and I noticed something funny related to the status screen:
all the characters look like chibi or toy versions of themselves. I don't remember seeing those "avatars" with the other teams, but maybe I missed it
. Kinda funny. I hope it gets explained later on.





Dudes. Use spoiler tags, even for personal theories. It says so right in the OP! This is not a "free spoiler" thread. You need to use tags.

I came in to this thread through here , a post by the thread creator that said no black bars... I'll admit I didn't read the OP that said to use black bars in here as well, but I just assumed due to that post and this being a spoiler threa that everything was fair game.

I edited my post. I apologize, but I truly think this should be a no black bars thread. Otherwise it would just be a minefield, better to come here after you finish the game.
 

Yasumi

Banned
I came in to this thread through here , a post by the thread creator that said no black bars... I'll admit I didn't read the OP that said to use black bars in here as well, but I just assumed due to that post and this being a spoiler threa that everything was fair game.

I edited my post. I apologize, but I truly think this should be a no black bars thread. Otherwise it would just be a minefield, better to come here after you finish the game.

I just meant no more spoiler posts in the review thread. Sorry for the confusion. :p

Once more people have actually gotten through the game, in like a week or so, things could probably be far more lax.
 
Putting the answers I already know from the vita version into the password boxes etc on Steam without actually seeing things is interesting with a few tweaks on dialogue lol.

Also third time playing this room and the damn
flower wall puzzle
still gets me everytime. I HATE IT.
 

jschreier

Member
So in the Biolab,
did anyone else complete the room without ever opening that locker and getting the pills? What did those pills actually do?
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Spoiler tags in a spoiler thread seems unnecessary.

So in the Biolab,
did anyone else complete the room without ever opening that locker and getting the pills? What did those pills actually do?

You get an item in there that tells you the order in which to place the specimens.
 
I'm pretty sure the order is just on the computer monitor.

Colors on the monitor don't match up with the cell numbers from the microscope though (for example the fixed butterfly would be in the wrong place, and purple wouldn't have a number), I remember using the pills to match the numbers to the monitor for the specimens.
 
ok so I think have my first story discussion question, the one thing i'm still confused about. pretty much end-game spoilers:

did anyone on q-team or otherwise refer to Sean by name as "Q" in the entire game? the inclusion of delta really threw me off, but I think what the game is trying to say is that it's not delta on q-team that was the odd man out, but rather it was Sean that was unaccounted for, contrary to what the player initially believes (making sean the 10th person). this would explain why everyone is like "who the hell is this" everytime they meet sean (conversely no one is surprised that delta is the Q of Q-team). I don't remember them actually identifying Sean as Q, if I'm not mistaken.
 
So in the Biolab,
did anyone else complete the room without ever opening that locker and getting the pills? What did those pills actually do?

took me forever to figure it out but
each pill pack is missing pills. the remaining pills form a number. that number is where that color specimen goes.

ok so I think have my first story discussion question, the one thing i'm still confused about. pretty much end-game spoilers:

did anyone on q-team or otherwise refer to Sean by name as "Q" in the entire game? the inclusion of delta really threw me off, but I think what the game is trying to say is that it's not delta on q-team that was the odd man out, but rather it was Sean that was unaccounted for, contrary to what the player initially believes (making sean the 10th person). this would explain why everyone is like "who the hell is this" everytime they meet sean (conversely no one is surprised that delta is the Q of Q-team). I don't remember them actually identifying Sean as Q, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't get why
no one says anything when q team is announced and sean isn't mention or the fact he is not on the x pass list.

also, i find it kind of silly to have to use spoiler tags in the spoilers thread.
 

jschreier

Member
ok so I think have my first story discussion question, the one thing i'm still confused about. pretty much end-game spoilers:

did anyone on q-team or otherwise refer to Sean by name as "Q" in the entire game? the inclusion of delta really threw me off, but I think what the game is trying to say is that it's not delta on q-team that was the odd man out, but rather it was Sean that was unaccounted for, contrary to what the player initially believes (making sean the 10th person). this would explain why everyone is like "who the hell is this" everytime they meet sean (conversely no one is surprised that delta is the Q of Q-team). I don't remember them actually identifying Sean as Q, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, I replayed some sections and there are lines that hint at it, like when Mira and Eric are baffled at how Q could make the execution decision. Their confusion makes a lot more sense when you realize they're not talking about the little kid but the deaf mute dude in the wheelchair!

And yeah, nobody ever refers to Sean as Q. It's very deliberate.
 

Yasumi

Banned
Spoilers can now be open and unmarked.

Sorry for the confusion guys, I didn't want people coming in and accidentally spoiling themselves. Considering the thread title though, it'd pretty much be their own fault if they stumble in here now.
 
So the whole story branch where you don't shoot Sigma is pretty heartbreaking, from Phi's death, to them waking up not knowing where Phi is, to not being able to basically keep Delta and Phi. Then when they transport to another timeline and Phi is still dead. The feels, man. The feels.

1904 Phi. They never explained what ever came of her, right?

Didn't care much for the ambiguous, open ending, but hopefully a fourth game comes of it.

Junpei probably had some of the best acted lines in the game.

They never really specified how long Sigma and Phi's consciousness have actually been alive, right?

Phi being named after herself. Lol.
 
Check the Files.

Oh, that one thing I didn't actually do? Lol.

Also, how exactly do Old Sigma, and Akane not know what happens at Dcom?I was under the impression the during VLR they failed Dcom more than once? I understand at first they don't so that's why ZTD happens. But since VLR directly follows D-end 1, they should know in VLR.
 
Oh, that one thing I didn't actually do? Lol.

Also, how exactly do Sigma, Phi, and Akane not know what happens at Dcom?I was under the impression the during VLR they failed Dcom more than once?
It makes sense if you follow the path of their consciousnesses. Sigma leaps forward from before ZTD to the start of VLR, then from the end of VLR to after the end of ZTD, then lives on the moon up until the point VLR starts, and finally jumps back to before ZTD and experiences it for the first time.

As for Akane, I think she is somewhat able to see the future but it's rather selective?
 
So the whole story branch where you don't shoot Sigma is pretty heartbreaking, from Phi's death, to them waking up not knowing where Phi is, to not being able to basically keep Delta and Phi. Then when they transport to another timeline and Phi is still dead. The feels, man. The feels.

1904 Phi. They never explained what ever came of her, right?

Didn't care much for the ambiguous, open ending, but hopefully a fourth game comes of it.

Junpei probably had some of the best acted lines in the game.

They never really specified how long Sigma and Phi's consciousness have actually been alive, right?

Phi being named after herself. Lol.

Junpei in ZTD reminded me a lot of Nagito from Danganronpa. His VA and how he acted compared to the previous games.
 
It makes sense if you follow the path of their consciousnesses. Sigma leaps forward from before ZTD to the start of VLR, then from the end of VLR to after the end of ZTD, then lives on the moon up until the point VLR starts, and finally jumps back to before ZTD and experiences it for the first time.

As for Akane, I think she is somewhat able to see the future but it's rather selective?

I think my problem was where ZTD Sigma goes. So if I read your post right, he goes post-VLR?

Junpei in ZTD reminded me a lot of Nagito from Danganronpa. His VA and how he acted compared to the previous games.

Nah, Nagito was fucking bat shit cray cray. Plus, whoever Junpei's VA is is way better than Papenbrook
 
I think my problem was where ZTD Sigma goes. So if I read your post right, he goes post-VLR?

Think of the VLR outcome as one outcome of ZTD, the one with the outbreak ending. In that timeline, the VLR timeline, he lives on the moon as calc84 said until the start of VLR. every other ZTD Sigma doesn't exist in VLR, he's on a new timeline. VLR only exists because of the outbreak ending.

edit: actually nevermind. that doesn't make sense. if consciousness is switching places as ZTD implies, then yes post ZTD sigma would switch places with post VLR sigma.
 
I think my problem was where ZTD Sigma goes. So if I read your post right, he goes post-VLR?

Ah yes, that would be correct, but that only happens on the VLR history I believe. So I'm not sure what the problem is.

Now what I'm really wondering is the identity of ? from the secret end of VLR. I feel like ZTD didn't address this at all. Maybe it was the player after all? But that doesn't seem right, because you see everything from the perspective of Q in ZTD, and you get to subtly change people's decisions by mind hacking.

I would almost want to say ? is Delta because the mind hacking would explain why he knows so much, but he's not a SHIFTer so he couldn't be sent back.

Or maybe that plot point was just dropped.
 

mStudios

Member
I'm extremely disappointed on who Zero was....

Like for real?

This game only give a "good" ending to each character, but the humanity will probably die.
 
I'm extremely disappointed on who Zero was....

Like for real?

This game only give a "good" ending to each character, but the humanity will probably die.
Read the Files to see some more about the future of the final history.

This should be bolded in the OP lol
 
One thing I think is kind of interesting is that some of the Decision Games let you see earlier on that something is amiss.

Like when Eric asks who killed Mira, if you answer "ME" Eric says "I knew it was you", but if you answer "Q" he says "That's clearly impossible!"

Or in the crossbow decision you enter "ME" and it says you can't commit suicide, but you enter "Q" and it asks for Q's real name. Incidentally after I found Sean's name I tried entering that, but it wouldn't let me.

Edit: Also, you may notice that the text boxes never indicate the speaking character's name, but rather a picture of their face. That's more than just a stylistic choice!
 

Gvitor

Member
One thing I think is kind of interesting is that some of the Decision Games let you see earlier on that something is amiss.

Like when Eric asks who killed Mira, if you answer "ME" Eric says "I knew it was you", but if you answer "Q" he says "That's clearly impossible!"

Or in the crossbow decision you enter "ME" and it says you can't commit suicide, but you enter "Q" and it asks for Q's real name. Incidentally after I found Sean's name I tried entering that, but it wouldn't let me.

Edit: Also, you may notice that the text boxes never indicate the speaking character's name, but rather a picture of their face. That's more than just a stylistic choice!

Yeah, I also tried Sean's name to no avail. Most of the decision games that require typing someone's name have some type of fun thing. I tried "Gab" in one of those and it said "how would a dog do it?"

I even tried Uchikoshi just for kicks, but nothing happened.

In one of them I typed "idontknow", and it didn't work. I need to go back and see if you can type "I_DONT_KNOW" (i shall forever be scarred by spacebars) and if it works as well as waiting for the time to pass. I was frustrated when I discovered that you had to wait for the time to pass and the first thing Sean says is "I don't know", since I tried that, but with no spaces.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Yeah, I also tried Sean's name to no avail. Most of the decision games that require typing someone's name have some type of fun thing. I tried "Gab" in one of those and it said "how would a dog do it?"

I even tried Uchikoshi just for kicks, but nothing happened.

In one of them I typed "idontknow", and it didn't work. I need to go back and see if you can type "I_DONT_KNOW" (i shall forever be scarred by spacebars) and if it works as well as waiting for the time to pass. I was frustrated when I discovered that you had to wait for the time to pass and the first thing Sean says is "I don't know", since I tried that, but with no spaces.
You'll find out why this is later. Think about Q's real name.
 

Gvitor

Member
You'll find out why this is later. Think about Q's real name.

I know, I tried that way before I knew about Sean not being Q, and Q being Delta. At the time I just found it weird and thought I'd need Sean's full name or something.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
I know, I tried that way before I knew about Sean not being Q, and Q being Delta. At the time I just found it weird and thought I'd need Sean's full name or something.
I guess that was part of the twist... Which honestly I didn't care for one bit. It just felt so... forced in compared to what the other games did.
 

mankoto

Member
Yeah, I also tried Sean's name to no avail. Most of the decision games that require typing someone's name have some type of fun thing. I tried "Gab" in one of those and it said "how would a dog do it?"

I even tried Uchikoshi just for kicks, but nothing happened.

In one of them I typed "idontknow", and it didn't work. I need to go back and see if you can type "I_DONT_KNOW" (i shall forever be scarred by spacebars) and if it works as well as waiting for the time to pass. I was frustrated when I discovered that you had to wait for the time to pass and the first thing Sean says is "I don't know", since I tried that, but with no spaces.

Using "I don't know" with space does work. I did that as a half-joke at first because it fit and was an honest answer and it sure enough did.
 

Gvitor

Member
Wall of text ahead (I didn't realize I typed this much, lol)

I didn't like the twist that Sean was a robot and not someone with a mask. Yes, the guy in the mask has been used before in VLR, but I still think it would be better if it was someone there. The speculation about who was under that mask was insane. I guess that is the point, to throw us off. Everyone was expecting someone to be under the mask, but... no one was.

That said, I really liked the "Q is actually someone else other than the kid" plot twist, alongside him being Delta, Brother, and Zero. It works similarly, in that everyone thought Zero would be one of the 9 characters, so the twist would be that he isn't, but I think it works here better, and the reason is, imo, Uchikoshi's narrative decisions and the integration of the player-character.

When ZTD got first announced, no one really liked the cinematic approach. We're all in the "we'll take what we can get, since this game almost didn't happen" train. The more visual novel style of narrative 999 and VLR had worked fine, and you shouldn't change something in the winning team. But in Uchikoshi I trusted, and I think it worked.

In 999, there was a reason the game was in first person and had that narrative style. It was meant to put you into Junpei's head as Akane, all built for that twist that she was in the bottom screen all along, seeing the world through Junpei's eyes through the morphogenetic field.

In VLR, there was again a reason for the game to be in first person: the twist that you're actually old.

In ZTD... there really wasn't. And he used that to subvert our expectations.

The whole fragment mechanic, alongside the memory wipes. It is built in a way that none of the characters ever know what is happening, but you, the player, does, all the time. Because you're seeing it all from a different perspective.

The Zero=Delta works, because Delta is a stand-in for the player. His esper powers are perfect, because they're exactly what the player can do: mind-hack, know everything about every timeline by hacking the mind of those that were on those timelines; and, for a short period of time, control someone to make a decision.

So when Delta gets off the wheelchair, he does so in a first person perspective to help that twist. Zero isn't really simply "Delta", a "random character", "someone that we didn't know before". Zero is you. You were manipulating this whole situation to begin with, toying with it as you saw fit. That to me is the biggest mindblown of the game, how it all connected just for this, and that it's left up for interpretation.

Shame he apparently dropped the "?" storyline from VLR, but I think this one worked just fine.
 

mStudios

Member
I need to know what happened to Kyle.

I need to know what happened to Kyle.
Why is Delta 124 Years Old
If Delta was born in 190X, how did he built the game?
What happened to the other Phi? Did she sent herself to the future (2008)?
Does the VLR timelines keeps playing over and over with no end?
Did they finally stop the terrorist or not?
What happened to Brother's step-brother?I know he's the terrorist but he's barely mentioned.
Man, this game gave me more questions than answers.

MAN WTF. This is a pretty good game, it was the best in the series until the very moment Delta shows up.
 
I need to know what happened to Kyle.
Why is Delta 124 Years Old
If Delta was born in 190X, how did he built the game?
What happened to the other Phi? Did she sent herself to the future (2008)?
Does the VLR timelines keeps playing over and over with no end?
Did they finally stop the terrorist or not?
What happened to Brother's step-brother?I know he's the terrorist but he's barely mentioned.
Man, this game gave me more questions than answers.

MAN WTF. This is a pretty good game, it was the best in the series until the very moment Delta shows up.

Phi gets transported to 2008, yes. The fate of the one still in 1904 is hinted at in the Files.

What makes you think Brother's step-brother is the terrorist? Isn't he dead? And Dio is one of his clones?
 
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