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Doom's lead graphics programmer thinks 4K isn't a good use of Xbox Scorpio's power
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
There is no reason why MS shouldn't push 4K. AMD and Nvidia are pushing 4K/VR. Its where graphic technology is going and getting cheaper. If the idea is that you can use the power at 1080p and do more why not drop to 720p and do even more? That argument doesn't hold water to me. These chips are adding more transistors and the fabrication is getting smaller. Developers need to continue to push the envelope or there will never be a need for gpu/cpu to get better. It just seems like a lot of folks don't want to upgrade their tvs.
AndyMoogle
Member
Why not 4k res and 144fps like on pc soon... Oh nevermind
While we will get screens capable of 4K 144Hz in a near future, it's going to require ridiculous power to actually take advantage of that. We still don't have cards capable of 4K at 60 fps. Unless you dial down the settings quite a bit.
SEGAvangelist
Gold Member
Where did Sony advise developers to stick to 1080p? This is a quote for the Giant Bomb article.
And Eurogamer's article said this.
Seems to me like Sony is promoting 4K for gaming based on those articles.
DouglasteR
Member
Go for it Thiago !!
Doom with TSSSXAAXAXA 8x (i really dont recall the correct acronym) is simply sublime !
Doom with TSSSXAAXAXA 8x (i really dont recall the correct acronym) is simply sublime !
ShutterMunster
Junior Member
This GPU in the Scorpio, how does it compare to what's out there on PC now?
I think many console gamers are looking for frame rate, shadow quality and IQ boosts. I don't want the same graphical fidelity in 4K/HDR. It's not the visual improvement I'm looking for.
I think many console gamers are looking for frame rate, shadow quality and IQ boosts. I don't want the same graphical fidelity in 4K/HDR. It's not the visual improvement I'm looking for.
MaximusPayne
Member
Was this a debate in the 1080p/720p camp?
Avenger54321
Member
I agree. 1080p with better framerate is all I want from the NEO and Scorpio consoles.
Backfoggen
Banned
Lots of people on GAF said they wanted 720p 60fps over 1080p 30fps.
Maybe not most demanding games but some games for sure.
Still do.
Here's the twitter chain: https://twitter.com/SebAaltonen/status/744184184571367425
His statement on 4K (he's the guy in the red box):
He retweeted this as well:
The guys in the conversation are not against 4k, they just agree that a 4k picture can be rendered smarter and less resource intensive than rendering everything in every game in 3840x2160. Similar to Blu rays in 4k the detail drops when objects are in motion and don't appear sharp anyway.
What? There's a reason the Xbox One S is allowing games to take advantage of HDR. Because games benefit from it just the same.
SEGAvangelist
Gold Member
That's a good catch and exactly what I've been anticipating will happen.
Or in the way that Quantum Break renders
AndyMoogle
Member
That wasn't my point. My point was that 4K makes a big difference for games.
thelastword
Banned
No one is forcing you to do 4k Sousa, I'm sure 1080p 60fps will be fine, but dang! you guys are already doing that on these consoles, so what would ID really push at 1080 with the new GPU's on these iterative consoles, many of their effects and their AA solution was pretty solid already... If there was one complaint about DOOM is that it could look sharper, GUESS WHAT! a higher resolution and a less blur inducing AA method fixes that due to the extra GPU power and you will still have enough left over to dial up your current effects and LOD to level 3..
I'm pretty sure an in-between rez that scales nicely to 4k would be good too. You don't have to go native for these GPU's.
I'm pretty sure an in-between rez that scales nicely to 4k would be good too. You don't have to go native for these GPU's.
Psyrgery ES
Member
Give me those sweet 1080p @ ultra @60fps and ill be fine, thanks
broncobuster
Banned
4K is the new catchy hotness with TVs. Whether or not Neo and Scorpio strive for 4K, I get why marketing and the message is 4K 4K 4K 4K. But I agree when working on a fixed platform, there are better uses for those resources.
He's right in my book. I think 4K is overkill, at least native 4K. There's so much potential we could unlock in games with that extra power at existing resolutions. Making the jump to 4K at this early stage is going to create frame-rate deja vu. We will be stuck in a 4K, sub 30 world. It's too early to make the leap to 4K full sale.
Seems the the most sensible approach to take with iterative consoles, but the hardware needs to have a hook and it's easy to sell gamers with 4k like it's a gimmick they need.
Luckily gamers care a little more about performance and frame rate these days than they did in the early PS3/360 days where people were much more willing to sacrifice performance for graphics, but as long as the industry and gamers keep pushing "power" and "graphics" as the only things that matter, resources won't be allocated into other areas.
Luckily gamers care a little more about performance and frame rate these days than they did in the early PS3/360 days where people were much more willing to sacrifice performance for graphics, but as long as the industry and gamers keep pushing "power" and "graphics" as the only things that matter, resources won't be allocated into other areas.
ElfArmy177
Member
Much rather have 1080 with AA and 60fps...
Haemi
Member
They are right for consoles. And the thing with MSAA is a great idea.
PCs on the other hand 4k is no waste because of the display distance.
And everyone who says "i want 60 fps instead of 4k", it's not always possible. 4k needs only more GPU power. 60fps needs more GPU and CPU power. CPU needs to be two times faster to calculate everything in half the time.
PCs on the other hand 4k is no waste because of the display distance.
And everyone who says "i want 60 fps instead of 4k", it's not always possible. 4k needs only more GPU power. 60fps needs more GPU and CPU power. CPU needs to be two times faster to calculate everything in half the time.
RoslindaleOne
Member
Split screen too. I need the cannon fodder guest accounts back in the battlefield.
Even PC gamers with ~6TF GPUs aren't aiming for 4K, and it's not because they can't afford a 4K display. Most still consider 1440p the sweet-spot, and that's even with significantly more powerful hardware than Scorpio.
Assuming I, the user, was able to manage how the 6TF in performance was used, I would most certainly aim for a consistent 60 fps first-most, and then improve visual settings, anti-aliasing, and possibly down-sampling from near 1440p depending on the game.
Assuming I, the user, was able to manage how the 6TF in performance was used, I would most certainly aim for a consistent 60 fps first-most, and then improve visual settings, anti-aliasing, and possibly down-sampling from near 1440p depending on the game.
Journey
Banned
We don't need a lead programmer to figure this out. Xbox One had to settle for 720p/900p and barealy 30fps for graphically intense games, now it can do 1080p and 60fps with even more detail... it will be God-like when using it's full potential at 1080p, forget 4K, that would be a waste of resources. Now of course we won't mind a few games like Ori and the Blind Forest at 4K, that would definitely be sweet!!!
What is discussed in the tweets would still tick the 4k box.
I don't see them using 4k as a selling point if a majority of the games arent 4k. That's what I find weird about xbox pushing 4k so much then saying it's not a requirement. If it's not a requirement then most devs won't push for it cause it would waste a lot of power. It would be kinda a bait and switch if there are only a handful of 4k games and the Scorpio is supposed to be the first true 4k console.
j0hnnix
Gold Member
Viewing distance (to screen size) of the general console gaming public is certainly a factor, but people are going to yell about this and say only blind people can't tell the difference.
Yes this please.
Also problematic for Microsoft is marketing 4K. If the game's graphics look the same but running at 4K resolution rather than 900p, how do you market that to people to get them to buy in? Run a commercial that they're viewing on their 1080p television?
Waste of resources. Put the horsepower to use to make the games look gorgeous at 1080p/60fps.
Kacho
Member
This is lost on so many Xbox fans and it drives me nuts. We're still a few years off before we're ready for 4K gaming. Especially on consoles. The resolution bump just isn't worth it when you consider the sacrifices that'll need to be made for it.
StrategyFan
Member
if you don't understand the difference between supersampling and downsampling, you can spend a lot of time arguing about semantics
if you want 1080p with SSAA or 4K without SSAA you're basically on the same side of the argument
framerate is nice, but not necessary viable if existing consoles need to play all the games
if you want 1080p with SSAA or 4K without SSAA you're basically on the same side of the argument
framerate is nice, but not necessary viable if existing consoles need to play all the games
You gotta be joking. We are in a market where people are buying 4K TVs even though there is no content.