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After all these years Nintendo handheld hardware is still mostly terrible. Why?

R

Rektash

Member
Nintendo has been doing handhelds since the advent of portable gaming, yet their hardware is still cheaply made, unergonomic and overpriced. Each new revision they introduce, while improving certain things, still has glaring issues.
Reading up on the Best way to play DS games? thread made me realize just how bad the situation for the n3DS/3DS actually is.

Some context: I have been playing Monster Hunter Generations on my n3DS XL the past couple days and can't stop beeing annoyed at how terrible the n3DS hardware is:


  1. The handheld is an unergonomic mess that I personally can't use without a third party grip. Without grip I can play for about 10 minutes before my hands/fingers start cramping up.
    I have about average/a bit above average sized adult hands. I play piano regulary and have above average finger flexibility because of it. I don't have this problem with my mobile or any Sony handheld.
  2. Nintendos handheld battery life has gone from good/acceptable in the DS/DSi era to absolutely terrible in the 3DS era. I can run my DSi XL for double the amount of time before it runs out of juice, compared to my n3DS XL . Enough said.
  3. Vastly different circle pad/c-stick/button/dpad quality across different revisions. There have been some real winners (DSi XL buttons/dpad) and loosers (DS lite diagonals, n3DS/3DS Circle Pad and C-Stick ) over the years here.
  4. Build/Parts quality: Creaky, bendable plastic casing, a screen hinge that feels like the opposite of sturdy, the n3DS screen panel lottery, laughable speakers, a bad sound chip, unacceptably bad og 3DS 3d effect, etc. .
  5. Terrible pricepoint. Not much to be said here but: Outdated hardware with questionable part/build quality priced close to a premium product.

So, why is this the case? How does Nintendo still get all this stuff wrong in 2016? They should have enough experience at this point to get this right. Is Nintendo plain chasing higher profit margins by cheapening out on their hardware?
Do they plain not care because they need to justify releasing new hardware revisions every couple years? Are there any reasons that don't let Nintendo stand in a bad light here? As a consumer I kinda recoil in disguist when I think about having
spent 180€ for this. The only reason I put up with this is because of exclusive games I can't play on other platforms.
 
P

Perfect Cha0s

Member
Profit margins, and they've proven plenty of times they can get people to buy the hardware regardless as long as they make the right software.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Yeah, the battery life is booty, but I've never had a problem with the layout (sans MH in general because that shit just confuses me). As for parts, mine have been alright save for the original DS that cracked like paper.

But I have a far bigger issue with their software output than anything.

Edit: Pricepoint is pretty bad. And the charger thing was a pretty dumb move as well.
 
G

Greddleok

Member
How did they get it wrong? The 3DS pretty much kept Nintendo from tanking.

I've found the 3DS comfortable. Both normal and XL. No problems playing for long periods of time.

They make things for children, no point in making something super stylish when it's going to be taken to the playground and dropped.

The battery life I completely agree with you. It's pretty much unacceptable. My vita lasts for weeks in sleep mode, the 3DS barely lasts over night.
 
M

Memory

Member
Because Nintendo know that you don't need great hardware to make great games.

However they don't understand that great games are no longer the be all and end all. We demand more from out consoles than just great gameplay, we want great performance and visual fidelity too.

Here's hoping NX can deliver on this aspect aswell as a strong game library.
 
L

LewieP

Member
They didn't get this wrong in 2016, they got it wrong in 2011.

The in my opinion poor decision to go with a relatively expensive stereoscopic display forced them to compromise on other areas of the design to keep costs down. It also doubled how demanding rendering games is on the hardware.

That plus the reported failure of Nvidia to deliver an adequate GPU resulting in Nintendo having to change the design of the machine last minute meant that it was a compromised device from day one, and subsequent iterations have inherited these compromises.

The huge advances in mobile components should theoretically mean that unless Nintendo adopt an expensive hardware gimmick again (which I think is unlikely this time around), they should be able to deliver a reasonably high resolution screen, a big jump in performance, and improved battery life, whilst being cheaper than the 3DS was on day one.

The build quality of the original model is bad, and some of the design changes from the DS were a step backwards (start/home button placement, stylus placement, look/feel), but in my view they largely addressed these with the XL and N3DS.

I don't share your view on the ergonomics, but yeah I sure hope the NX handheld has two proper analogue pads as standard.

I have high hopes for the NX handheld, but I don't know exactly what to expect.
 
S

shaki123

Member
They like to earn as much money as possible, if that makes sense to you. This has been well thought out by Nintenso. They always earn money on hardware. It is just smart business :).
 
K

KAL2006

Banned
The price point, battery life, missing charger, ergonomics just annoyed me and this is coming from a Nintendo fan. I don't care if their software is good. This is why for the first time this gen I didn't buy both a 3DS or a Wii U where as last gen I owned a Wii and a DS.
 
J

Jackano

Member
The 3DS is kind of a special case IMO. Terrible timing for a launch: Shortly after, mobile components made a huge bump in performance and drop in price. And the 3D screen didn't help in any area.

Next handheld will be very interesting to see. They still have to build it for <200$, but they have the choice when choosing the components + the new NX platform/OS.
 
W

Wolf Akela

Member
I don't mind all of those if it meant having better display.

3DS screen looked garbage when I bought it in 2012 (?). I cannot stand it anymore in 2016. I preferred the looks of PSP MH games just because they had a slightly better IQ and didn't have the piss filter.
 
cireza

cireza

Banned
I feel exactly the same as you OP, and eventually decided to sell my 3DS. I can't play for long periods on it, the battery will die pretty fast anyway.

The worst offender for me are the screens on 3DS. They are simply awful.

The D-Pad is also very bad, and makes it difficult to play correctly some games (like Space Harrier for example, or Cave Story, or Azure Striker). I feel incredibly limited by this D-Pad.

I just can't enjoy playing on this hardware, even if I am interested in some games.

I am also tired of the double screen. Makes the thing heavy, and does not add much at all. For most of the games, you are going to look at one screen 99% of the time anyway.
 
V

Vic20

Member
It turns out that Nintendo is in business to make money, not the world's best handheld. Given the last few years (minus the last few weeks of pokemon go fever) its understandable that you wouldn't think they like money, but they do! In summary:

MONEY.
 
Z

z0m3le

Banned
I hear this about the 3DS, Nintendo produced a device with certain expensive features.
#1 It has very fast ram for the time of it's release in March 2011.
#2 It has 2 screens with a hinge design.
#3 It has a 3D screen.
#4 it has 3 cameras and gyros.

EDIT: Not saying this justifies the $199 price of the 3DS, but they did take a major hit to their profits in 2011 when they dropped the price from $249, and they did give us a 2DS which is ergonomically better and much cheaper, I also believe it has a longer battery life but not sure about that last one.

I honestly only have 1 problem with 3DS, and that is that it took away so much development from Wii U, and as a Wii U owner, I would have enjoyed every 3DS title more on the Wii U. This should be corrected in their next handheld as it should be the end of non-programmable shader hardware and a performance level, at least in the Wii U range, with NX being much faster.
 
D

dity

Member
I mean, they got into the portable gaming market by intentionally releasing a console using cheap proven technologies. They've just never moved on from that. Even the New 3DS has a resistive touch screen.
 
C

Chastten

Banned
1) Agree. I don't like playing action heavy game on it due to this. Luckily, I don't play those a lot on handhelds.

2) Absolutely agree. There is no excuse for the terrible batterylife on each version of the 3DS. By far my biggest complaint.

3) Can't say I've noticed this. No issues here.

4) The original 3DS design was a clusterfuck, but every else does the job. It's not going to win any awards obviously but nothing that bothers me.

5) Original 3DS at €250 was terribly overpriced, everything else feels fine to me. At least in Europe there are constant deals going on, so MSRP doesn't matter much. Bought my n3DS with Happy Home Designer for €129 earlier this year, which I feel is very fair value.

Why do they do this? Because they're a company and wanna make money. As long as they can get away with asking a little more the strictly needed they will. When consumers decide the asking price is too much (see PS3 and 3DS) they will lower it as they see fit.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
It's a bit erroneous to make the claims that the hardware is outdated. For example, though it's not a handheld Wii U may have had lower specs, but the tech behind it was top quality and modern, they just focused on minimalising power output and efficiency over raw power. Yet due to it having smaller numbers, people called it outdated.

3DS also had a built in stereoscopic screen and a lot of other technical tricks.

Lower specs != outdated hardware
 
K

kurahador

Member
Because 3DS came out in 2011, not last month. You can't mess the control and the architecture too much, otherwise the games made for it doesn't work the same.

You could always buy 2DS to solve the hand cramping problem though.
 
S

SuperBlank

Member
Why? Because they make good money with their current portable hardware paradigm. They're not looking to give us the highest quality, most technically superior experience, they want to put out something relatively cheap, accessible, and laden with some kind of typically superfluous gimmick.

Look at how they intended to follow up the Wii.
 
W

Windforce

Member
Because the cheaper console usually wins? They get bigger margins and they also have the stronger software first party. When you own frachises like pokemon, and monster hunter is exclusive, you get away with shit hardware because people are hostage to it.
 
LordRaptor

LordRaptor

Member
I really feel that basically all of the complaints in the OP are solved with the 2DS.
I mean, its a really good option for access to the 3DS library at an extremely good value price point, and its also a bit sturdier and ergonomic than the 'real' 3DS units are.

e:
dity said:
Even the New 3DS has a resistive touch screen.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand the fetishisation of capacitive screens on a handheld either - "But I can't do multitouch on my gaming system with 12 different buttons, 2 analogue inputs and a Dpad???"
 
G

gerudoman

Member
Yeah, I love my n3DS XL and consider it the ultimate Nintendo system, but those are all valid points (except for ergonomics, the n3DS XL is much more comfortable to hold than OG 3DS) and battery life is particularly jarring.

Worst offender for me was Lite's hinge issue though, I've suffered it twice in two different systems. Nintendo dropped the ball in a great way with an otherwise fantastically designed system.
 
SinCityAssassin

SinCityAssassin

Member
gerudoman said:
Yeah, I love my n3DS XL and consider it the ultimate Nintendo system, but those are all valid points (except for ergonomics, the n3DS XL is much more comfortable to hold than OG 3DS) and battery life is particularly jarring.

Worst offender for me was Lite's hinge issue though, I've suffered it twice in two different systems. Nintendo dropped the ball in a great way with an otherwise fantastically designed system.
Click to expand...

Guess you can say it was lite on build material.
 
S

Shiggy

Member
LordRaptor said:
I really don't understand the fetishisation of capacitive screens on a handheld either - "But I can't do multitouch on my gaming system with 12 different buttons, 2 analogue inputs and a Dpad???"
Click to expand...

Some games require the use of fingers to press something on the touch screen. It's more than irritating when the" touch"doesn't get noticed because you have to press relatively hard on the 3DS screen.


And yes, the hardware is crap. I'm sure ok with the battery, but the screens are outright terrible. In Fire Emblem Fates and Xenoblade I have trouble recognizing stuff because it's so blurry/pixelated. The build quality is also rather bad, with the upper screen moving to the left and right on the thing it's fixed to.

The only thing that made the 3DS comfortable to use was the CC Pro, but now I have a N3DS XL and I'm out of luck. The new C-Stick makes my thumb hurt during use.
 
W

Wolf Akela

Member
JoeM86 said:
It's a bit erroneous to make the claims that the hardware is outdated. For example, though it's not a handheld Wii U may have had lower specs, but the tech behind it was top quality and modern, they just focused on minimalising power output and efficiency over raw power. Yet due to it having smaller numbers, people called it outdated.

3DS also had a built in stereoscopic screen and a lot of other technical tricks.

Lower specs != outdated hardware
Click to expand...

Glassless 3D screen was definitely modern technology, but even Nintendo themselves dropped it too quickly. Pokemon X/Y, Nintendo's premiere game, on their premier handheld, ran bloody awful in 3D and it didn't even work in all places.

Every other piece of the 3DS was outdated when it came out. The 3DS power management was not good at all. The PSP's sleep mode ran better, and Vita sleep absolutely stomped 3DS sleep even if they had very close SoT.
 
B

Broken Hope

Member
JoeM86 said:
It's a bit erroneous to make the claims that the hardware is outdated. For example, though it's not a handheld Wii U may have had lower specs, but the tech behind it was top quality and modern, they just focused on minimalising power output and efficiency over raw power. Yet due to it having smaller numbers, people called it outdated.

3DS also had a built in stereoscopic screen and a lot of other technical tricks.

Lower specs != outdated hardware
Click to expand...

The Wii U had an outdated shader design, it could of and should of used GCN.
 
R

Rektash

Member
Shiggy said:
The only thing that made the 3DS comfortable to use was the CC Pro, but now I have a N3DS XL and I'm out of luck. The new C-Stick makes my thumb hurt during use.
Click to expand...

Worse, the C-Stick doesn't work for me half of the time because it feels so damn slippery. The slightest amount of sweat/natural oil on your thumb makes using it impossible as you can't move the stick to a position where it activates as the C-Stick rubber is smooth and without any profile (just like the circle pad).

Luckily Monster Hunter Generations let me remap the horizontal camera to ZR/ZL otherwise I simply couldn't use the camera consistently.
 
usp84

usp84

Member
I am play Ocarina of time now and my hands literally get tired after a while because I use r and l all the time, something that didn't happen when I played A link between worlds

Terrible indeed
 
L

leng jai

Member
The screen scratching fiasco and absolutely awful audio capabilities are ridiculous in this day and age. That's before you even mention the questionable build quality and sub par screens.
 
LordRaptor

LordRaptor

Member
Shiggy said:
Some games require the use of fingers to press something on the touch screen. It's more than irritating when the" touch"doesn't get noticed because you have to press relatively hard on the 3DS screen.
Click to expand...

I have literally never had a problem with the touch not working on a touchscreen on any of the DS line.
Resistive also allows for more mundane things like optional stylus controls (I do not believe Trauma Centre to be playable purely with touch) or being able to use touch while wearing gloves, things only possible with capacitive with expensive peripherals designed to emualte those features.
 
O

Otakumegane

Member
I no longer enjoy 3D and touch screen when the latter is available everywhere and 3D died in novelty a while back.

Keep the touch, ditch dual screen, ditch 3D. Keep street/spotpass but make it more enjoyable. And for the love of god please stop making shoulder buttons break every 5 months.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
Wolf Akela said:
Glassless 3D screen was definitely modern technology, but even Nintendo themselves dropped it too quickly. Pokemon X/Y, Nintendo's premiere game, on their premier handheld, ran bloody awful in 3D and it didn't even work in all places.

Every other piece of the 3DS was outdated when it came out. The 3DS power management was not good at all. The PSP's sleep mode ran better, and Vita sleep absolutely stomped 3DS sleep even if they had very close SoT.
Click to expand...

3D is still used. Just because some games don't doesn't mean it was dropped quickly.

You're using outdated incorrectly. Inadequate may be a valid statement, but outdated? No.
 
T

TI82

Banned
A lot of has to do with the deal with Nvidia falling through. Nintendo had to scramble and went with the PICA200. I'm not sure the specifics, but it seems it really came down to price. Nvidia wouldn't cut Nintendo a bulk deal they liked so we ultimately suffered.

The ergonomics is a whole nother complaint though, the 3DS is so uncomfortable. Only the 2DS ever got the right feel. Circlepads were a failed idea stolen from the PSP and I still have no clue why they would want that awful thing. Can you imagine we almost had a Wii U gamepad with 2 of those things instead of real sticks? lol
 
S

Shahed

Member
Is it me or are there a lot of people misunderstanding the point of the OP? As far as I can tell it's not hardware specs the OP is talking about, but hardware design and build quality. Yet there are several rushing to both deride and defend the hardware power.
 
R

Rektash

Member
Thoraxes said:
Not to mention you can buy a new 2DS for $80 with a game, or buy a used one for $50. There are cheap entry points to the 3DS line of software.
Click to expand...

While the 2DS lets you access the 3DS software library, it comes with a few noteable drawbacks as well nowdays:


  1. Missing ZL/ZR buttons and no C-Stick. This is actually kind of a big deal I think because new releases like for example Monster Hunter Generations let you remap certain things to the ZL/ZR buttons or use the C-Stick for camera controls.
  2. You won't be able to play n3DS only games, so no Xenoblade Chronicles for you.
  3. It isn't as portable due to the form factor.

Cheap access to the software library? Yes, but again with some huge drawbacks.

MisterHero said:
Consoles and handheld are supposed to be affordable.
Click to expand...

Of course, but I can't help to feel that for example Sony put a lot more thought into the Vita hardware design than Nintendo did for the different 3DS revisions. Now don't misunderstand me, the Vita has quite a few problems of its own but overall it is a much more well designed handheld in terms of ergonomics and build quality. And it is beeing sold at a similar pricepoint.
 
H

hodgy100

Member
im very interested to see what nintendo can make handheld wise with the next one. the 3ds was kind of in a tough spot and mobile parts has made leaps and bounds since.

heck the latest raspberry pi is waaaay more powerful than the 3ds and that thing costs £35.
 
T

TI82

Banned
hodgy100 said:
im very interested to see what nintendo can make handheld wise with the next one. the 3ds was kind of in a tough spot and mobile parts has made leaps and bounds since.

heck the latest raspberry pi is waaaay more powerful than the 3ds and that thing costs
Click to expand...

I'd like if they were to start making gaming centered android smartphones. Like the Xperia play. Because the dedicated handheld is all but dead at this point.
 
R

redcrayon

Member
Kysen said:
The battery life is abysmal for a portable device. Even in sleep mode it guzzles battery.
Click to expand...
I've spent hundreds of hours playing Monster Hunter on a 3DS XL, and this is the thing that bothers me the most. A Vita will last a week in sleep mode, but it feels like a 3DS needs to be charged every single day.
 
StereoVsn

StereoVsn

Member
Shahed said:
Is it me or are there a lot of people misunderstanding the point of the OP? As far as I can tell it's not hardware specs the OP is talking about, but hardware design and build quality. Yet there are several rushing to both deride and defend the hardware power.
Click to expand...
Yeah, OP is pointing out (and I agree) issues with ergonomics, build quality and overall design/construction. Power (or lack thereof), resolution and other performance related issues are a different conversation.

Not much to say though, build quality is iffy, screen quality is iffy, screen lottery sucks, ergonomics is terribad, the second nub on n3DS is not great to use and battery life alongside standby state are both bad.

They got Nintendo games and support from Capcom, Level 5, and a few other 3rd parties where that makes a difference vs Sony Vita and it's superior hardware. Nintendo don't care since they managed to turn around 3DS sinking ship somewhat at least and the issues above let them save few bucks on the margins (look at the stupidity around AC adapter).
 
I

Intel_89

Member
I agree the battery life is shit but I don't mind the design for the most part and the XL models feel pretty confortable, the only one that actually caused physical pain on me while playing was the OG 3DS with certain games.
With that said I hope that we can move on from the 2 screen design as soon as possible, it made for uniques ways to play DS games but they barely did anything with the two screens in 3DS games.
 
H

hodgy100

Member
TI82 said:
I'd like if they were to start making gaming centered android smartphones. Like the Xperia play. Because the dedicated handheld is all but dead at this point.
Click to expand...

the market is much smaller but I wouldn't call it dead.

But I agree a nintendo phone/handheld hybrid is likely the way to go now.
 
S

Shiggy

Member
LordRaptor said:
I have literally never had a problem with the touch not working on a touchscreen on any of the DS line.
Resistive also allows for more mundane things like optional stylus controls (I do not believe Trauma Centre to be playable purely with touch) or being able to use touch while wearing gloves, things only possible with capacitive with expensive peripherals designed to emualte those features.
Click to expand...

I encountered the issue often, be it NSMB or Jam with the Band. From basically all devices you are used to just touch the screen, with the DS you need to press the screen.

I don't quite understand the second part of your post. What's the issue with Trauma Center, did it use buttons or why do you think is not purely playable with touch? And people play handhelds with gloves? Even then, a lot of people already have gloves for their phones.
 
D

dity

Member
LordRaptor said:
I really don't understand the fetishisation of capacitive screens on a handheld either - "But I can't do multitouch on my gaming system with 12 different buttons, 2 analogue inputs and a Dpad???"
Click to expand...

I don't really care that they use it, but it's an example of using older technology for the sake of it as Nintendo have always done.
 
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