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Obsidian open to being bought by another company, talks independent dev pains

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...tertainment-survival-success-and-independence

This is an interview with Feargus Urquhart, CEO of Obsidian Entertainment.

I suggest reading the whole thing. He's very blunt and honest in it and goes into a lot more detail about the realities of being a mid-sized independent studio.

Hopefully for them they can find a good publisher to buy them and get out of what sounds like a very negative cycle.

Summary:
  • "I've got 200 people and they've all gotta be paid. That changes your whole mindset... That means there's always a gun to your head"
  • "I mean, yeah, I'd like a Lamborghini in every color of the rainbow, of course, but really we just want to be in a financial situation where we're not worried all the time. Worry is the gun to your head. It changes how you make decisions."
  • Feargus notes how there's only about 10 independent developers of Obsidian's size (~100-200+ staff) left.
  • Feargus talks about the challenges they've faced with their titles and the budgets they're given. For example, the notably flawed multiplayer implementation in Dungeon Siege III was about all their budget could afford them, even though they knew it wasn't going to be acceptable in the modern market.
  • Similarly Feargus notes that their projects were frequently shorted QA resources due to other, more prominent projects at publishers shipping. Sometimes they'd only have two testers on their game as they were nearing launch.
  • He also notes that Obsidian had made a lot of bad decisions with their internal development process in their historical projects. Obsidian would dive into a project without really planning out what to do and it would cause massive problems and delays, and ruin their relationship with their publishers. With few publishers available anymore, that becomes very problematic.
  • On disagreeing with publishers as an independent dev: "Well, you have three choices: you can spend your own money, you can lie, or you can do what you're told. And, generally, we've always chosen that we'll just do what we're told - even when we don't believe in it."
  • Obsidian is now favorable toward the idea of killing games early, as it works out way better for both the publisher and the developer. We've seen a few publishers like EA take up this strategy as well.
  • Feargus talks about how when you're working as an independent developer with a publisher, there's a large number of things outside of your control, so these days Obsidian just tries to really focus on doing the things they can control well and then signing contracts that guarantee things like minimum numbers of testers to assuage some of the other issues.
  • Due to how independent development contracts are set up (unless you're say Bungie/Respawn/Gearbox), even in the optimistic case (toward the AAA game), they would make more money off of shipping two Pillars of Eternity games than they would from a $50 million AAA title.
  • The vast majority of Obsidian's staff is working on Armored Warfare (based on other interviews, seemingly 140+ people), but as most of the team has been on the game for 2-4 years now, they want to work on other projects as this was pretty obviously a needed-to-survive contract work project for them. There's an implication here that the staff is not satisfied with the current situation, but that Obsidian doesn't have a solution to it as it stands.
  • Feargus implies that Leonard Boyarsky is working on a pitch for the type of $30-$50 million project that could employ that much staff, but they'd need to find someone who is actually willing to fund that from Obsidian, so I wouldn't necessarily hold my breath here.
  • On the differences in what he expected in 2003 (when Obsidian was founded) versus today: "I thought we would have our own engine at this point - and we tried. I thought we would have been purchased by now. I thought we wouldn't be as big as we are."
  • "I am fine being independent in 13 years. I would be okay if we got purchased, but I would be fine independent."
  • On the next 13 years: "We can keep doing great stuff with Eternity. I'd love to turn Eternity into more like a Skyrim product. I'd love to do a science fiction game. I just want to keep making role-playing games - I do, and the team does. Whether that's independent or not, making RPGs we can be proud of is the goal."
 

dude

dude
I hope that if it does happen it'll be by someone like Paradox. I couldn't stand losing Obsidian to some heartless publisher :(
 

psyfi

Banned
Huh, I've never thought of Obsidian as indie, but that's just cause their name is so well known. This really puts their achievements in perspective.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I hope that if it does happen it'll be by someone like Paradox. I couldn't stand losing Obsidian to some heartless publisher :(
Paradox usually works with teams of 20 or less. I don't think they'd want a 200+ person studio.

Huh, I've never thought of Obsidian as indie, but that's just cause their name is so well known. This really puts their achievements in perspective.

Well, there's a bit of a difference. They're independent as in not being owned by a publisher, as opposed to being the kind of small and agile studio that the word "indie" is usually associated with.
 
Downsize, get some coffers from small, mid size rpgs like Tyranny and PoE, grow back bit by bit until you can handle a self published AAA console game. Become bethesda 2.0.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Bethesda is good candidate.

I feel that would have happened by now if it was going to.

Bethesda bought Arkane, Tango, id, and machinegames, and they even got into a bidding war over Relic with Sega. Feargus has also made it clear that he always intended to get bought at some point, but Obsidian hasn't been purchased by Bethesda despite making a major hit title for the company.

That kind of says it all, no?
 

WetWaffle

Member
For the love of God, let them be bought by a publisher that'll give them all the time they need and a sizeable budget. Don't want another case of the fans having to save their game again. I wouldn't even care if it was a console manufacturer like Sony that took them in as long as they treat em right.
 

dude

dude
Paradox usually works with teams of 20 or less. I don't think they'd want a 200+ person studio.

I know.. I just wish that, should they really do get bought, it'll be by someone who's no afraid to back more games like Pillars and Tyranny which might not have the biggest market appeal.

I'd guess both MS and Bathesda won't buy them to produce more isometric old-school RPGs.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Will it then make them more open to more platforms for their games? If so, I am all for it.

This is my selfish wish: if I can play their RPG games in consoles, that would be great (Pillars of Eternity looked so good......)
 

Hektor

Member
Obsidian and Platinum. You da real MVPs.



If anything I think obsidian need to scale down a bit.

The vast majority of mouths to feed are working on a contract game they don't actually wanna do because they got mouths to feed. I think that kinda says it all.
 

wapplew

Member
It's overwhelmingly played in Eastern Europe or among the types of audiences that never post on GAF.



I suspect they don't want to fund what would be their most expensive game ever with Obsidian. :p

Yo, Ubisoft buy something before being bought!
 

Sandfox

Member
It's overwhelmingly played in Eastern Europe or among the types of audiences that never post on GAF.



I suspect they don't want to fund what would be their most expensive game ever with Obsidian. :p

You've got to crack a few eggs to make an omelette lol.
 
Obsidian and Platinum. You da real MVPs.



If anything I think obsidian need to scale down a bit.

The vast majority of mouths to feed are working on a contract game they don't actually wanna do because they got mouths to feed. I think that kinda says it all.

Yup I also feel what they really need to do is to downsize and refocus.
 
so, all they got in the oven is Tyranny and Armored Warfare? Yikes, well, if that keeps the lights on I guess that's great, but I can understand members of the team being a bit chagrined by the situation. Being on the grind of a MMO can't be all that creatively fulfilling, and working at Obsidian is kind of the point of that whole enterprise.

I hope some publisher they've worked with before decides to give them another shot. Alpha Protocol 2 could be really special if some Sega exec ever got ginned up enough to gamble a bunch of money on it.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Obsidian had already moved down to 90 staff not all that long ago before ballooning back up.

I think it's clear what they really want to do is making AAA or at least AA WRPGs again, which is why they're going for this angle instead.

You even see it in how Feargus talks about Pillars of Eternity and how he'd like to make it more of a Skyrim like product.

He also laughs at the idea of Kickstarting everything because they'd never be able to afford a $30-$50 million game that way.

It's like how Platinum keeps taking on all their contract work to keep their staff as well. They don't want to shrink past the needs of the types of games they ultimately want to make.
 

Warablo

Member
CD Project Red, Deep Silver or Techland would be a good fit. Bethesda would make sense, but I don't think they like each other.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Deep Silver is rather unique in that even being owned by them means you're probably not getting much money and support.
 
Obsidian had already moved down to 90 staff not all that long ago.

I think it's clear what they really want to do is making AAA or at least AA WRPGs again, which is why they're going for this angle instead.

What was their last bit commercial hit? Fallout I guess?

It seems like a square peg round hole situation.
 
Obsidian and Platinum. You da real MVPs.

If anything I think obsidian need to scale down a bit.

The vast majority of mouths to feed are working on a contract game they don't actually wanna do because they got mouths to feed. I think that kinda says it all.

That contract work could be funding or subsidizing their other games like Tyranny or Pillars of Eternity.

How much would they scale down? At least 140 employees?
 
Obsidian had already moved down to 90 staff not all that long ago before ballooning back up.

I think it's clear what they really want to do is making AAA or at least AA WRPGs again, which is why they're going for this angle instead.

You even see it in how Feargus talks about Pillars of Eternity and how he'd like to make it more of a Skyrim like product.

He also laughs at the idea of Kickstarting everything because they'd never be able to afford a $30-$50 million game that way.

It's like how Platinum keeps taking on all their contract work to keep their staff as well. They don't want to shrink past the needs of the types of games they ultimately want to make.

Problem is that it seems they don't have the capital needed for that size, seems like they ballooned up way to fast for their own good and are now super dependent on whatever is the next contract to keep the mouths fed. I think they have a good foot on the door for mid size digital sale rpgs, they should focus on that and slowly grow the scope of their rpgs as the money rolls in.

That contract work could be funding or subsidizing their other games like Tyranny or Pillars of Eternity.

How much would they scale down? At least 140 employees?

I think they have PoE2 in pre-prod and Tyranny in dev with 70-ish employes, could be wrong tho.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
What was their last bit commercial hit? Fallout I guess?

It seems like a square peg round hole situation.

I don't disagree with the assessment that realistically they're a small downloadable RPG studio, but that doesn't seem to be the driving force behind their decision making.

Maybe at some point they'll end up coming to terms with that or moving into other studios already making big WRPGs.

Problem is that it seems they don't have the capital needed for that size, seems like they ballooned up way to fast for their own good and are now super dependent on whatever is the next contract to keep the mouths fed.
Well, they can in theory leave people supporting Armored Warfare indefinitely due to its success. It's just that they'll eventually have to replace out a lot of staff as people who don't want to make that game leave.

I think they have PoE2 in pre-prod and Tyranny in dev with 70-ish employes, could be wrong tho.

From J.E. Sawyer: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1212259

"The company has grown and shrunk over time. It’s now a little over 200 people, with most of the developers working on Armored Warfare. The Tyranny team is between 20 and 30 people (I think). The Pathfinder team has less than 10 (again, I think). My team is currently fairly small, about 20 people."

That'd be laying off about 70% of their workforce when they actually do have an active and profitable project to work on.
 

A-V-B

Member
CDPR or Paradox, ideally. Both companies that give a shit about the kinds of games Obsidian likes to make.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
CDPR or Paradox, ideally. Both companies that give a shit about the kinds of games Obsidian likes to make.

Buying a 200+ person studio in Irvine California doesn't seem especially likely for a studio that benefits massively off of cheaper labor costs in Poland.

When CD Projekt opened a second branch, it was in Krakow as opposed to anywhere else.
 
I don't disagree with the assessment that realistically they're a small downloadable RPG studio, but that doesn't seem to be the driving force behind their decision making.

Maybe at some point they'll end up coming to terms with that or moving into other studios already making big WRPGs.


Well, they can in theory leave people supporting Armored Warfare indefinitely due to its success. It's just that they'll eventually have to replace out a lot of staff as people who don't want to make that game leave.



From J.E. Sawyer: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1212259

"The company has grown and shrunk over time. It’s now a little over 200 people, with most of the developers working on Armored Warfare. The Tyranny team is between 20 and 30 people (I think). The Pathfinder team has less than 10 (again, I think). My team is currently fairly small, about 20 people."

That'd be laying off about 70% of their workforce when they actually do have an active and profitable project to work on.

If they don't find a big enough contract to the armored warfare part of their team after that gig is up I think that'd be the safest option for healthy growth. But yeah 70% reduction would be brutal.
 

Ominym

Banned
Obsidian had already moved down to 90 staff not all that long ago before ballooning back up.

I think it's clear what they really want to do is making AAA or at least AA WRPGs again, which is why they're going for this angle instead.

You even see it in how Feargus talks about Pillars of Eternity and how he'd like to make it more of a Skyrim like product.

He also laughs at the idea of Kickstarting everything because they'd never be able to afford a $30-$50 million game that way.

It's like how Platinum keeps taking on all their contract work to keep their staff as well. They don't want to shrink past the needs of the types of games they ultimately want to make.

This is a really good point that highlights the unfortunate situation Obsidian is in. They need the contract work to keep the lights on and keep their team they like employed as they attempt to get their real goals aligned with their capabilities. However, the more contract work they do the greater the risk they run pushing the team they have and want to keep away.

In all honesty it sounds like a lose-lose situation outside of acquisition and even then depending on who gets them might be a hollow victory.

I don't envy the people that have to solve this issue.
 
How about Square Enix? I don't know much about the workings of stuff like this. I really have no reason for the suggestion other than Square wanting a WRPG focused studio to go alongside their Japanese efforts.
 
CD Project Red, Deep Silver or Techland would be a good fit. Bethesda would make sense, but I don't think they like each other.

CDPR or Paradox, ideally. Both companies that give a shit about the kinds of games Obsidian likes to make.

CD Projekt, the company that owns CDPR, made approximately 86 million USD in profit last year and they're a publicly traded company. Obsidian's not exactly the wisest purchase.

How many people do they employ? They'd possibly be doubling their employee count overnight.

Over 300, so yeah, completely infeasible.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
If they don't find a big enough contract to the armored warfare part of their team after that gig is up I think that'd be the safest option for healthy growth. But yeah 70% reduction would be brutal.

Well that's the thing. I don't think it's actually a contract with an end date. They're making new content for Armored Warfare constantly.

This is a really good point that highlights the unfortunate situation Obsidian is in. They need the contract work to keep the lights on and keep their team they like employed as they attempt to get their real goals aligned with their capabilities. However, the more contract work they do the greater the risk they run pushing the team they have and want to keep away.

In all honesty is sounds like a lose-lose situation outside of acquisition and even then depending on who gets them might be a hollow victory.

I don't envy the people that have to solve this issue.
Yeah, there's a reason this type of developer rarely exists anymore.

Almost everyone in this situation has sold out, shut down, or struck gold when the going was still good and turned into a self publishing mega success.

There are a few studios with sweetheart publisher deals as well (Respawn, Bungie, Gearbox), but they had to have 10+ million selling megahits to get there first, and for all intents and purposes, are basically owned studios of EA, Activision, and Take-Two.
 

dude

dude
I'd guess that in all likelihood Obsidian are going to stay independent for quite a while. But it's good that they now have an ongoing relationship with Paradox on the classic-RPG side of thing and that should help them keep afloat (Urquhart did say that two PoE can make him more money than a big AAA production.)
I do hope that they manage to get some of their bigger production off the ground with some publisher eventually though.
 
Yo nintendo, contract obsidian to make Pillars of Go

I know you are joking, but if Nintendo is serious about diversifying their lineup, a RPG from obsidian is a great choice. It fits their M.O. of losing a shit ton of money on platinum games or tecmo koei games. They could even use their IPs imagine a Zelda or an Advance Wars isometric RPG from Obsidian.
 

duckroll

Member
Can't wait for a Chinese laundry company looking to expand into the entertainment business to buy Obsidian Entertainment and Platinum Games, then put them to work on an epic original wuxia action RPG with the best character action gameplay and crazy boss and villain designs, matched with a deep character driven storyline rich in lore and meaningful character choices reflected in an in depth faction system.

Ha ha ha ha... ha.
 
Can't wait for a Chinese laundry company looking to expand into the entertainment business to buy Obsidian Entertainment and Platinum Games, then put them to work on an epic original wuxia action RPG with the best character action gameplay and crazy boss and villain designs, matched with a deep character driven storyline rich in lore and meaningful character choices deflected in an in depth faction system.

Ha ha ha ha... ha.

Can't tell if darkest or brightest timeline
 

Zojirushi

Member
Jesus, having 200 people on your payroll and insecure as fuck revenue stream / cash flow seems like nightmare stuff.

Respect to these guys for somehow being able to keep the team together, I imagine more often than not this would lead to a more dynamic staff up / staff down kinda situation depending on the current project.
 

Hektor

Member
That contract work could be funding or subsidizing their other games like Tyranny or Pillars of Eternity.

How much would they scale down? At least 140 employees?

Laying down over a 100 people is such a harsh thing to do, but I feel it's the most obvious choice, especially when a notable amount of obsidians is unhappy working on the game.

Being a studio of 50 people could also open up a lot more chances for safe deals with other publishers like the aforementioned Paradox or CDPR, Cos that won't be happening with a 200 people studio any time soon.

Altho you're right with it probably subsidizing their other ventures.

I know you are joking, but if Nintendo is serious about diversifying their lineup, a RPG from obsidian is a great choice. It fits their M.O. of losing a shit ton of money on platinum games or tecmo koei games. They could even use their IPs imagine a Zelda or an Advance Wars isometric RPG from Obsidian.

I'm not sure I could see them working on Nintendo IP's. Crpgs like obsidians arent as mainstream as ips like Zelda are.

A western take on something like Fire Emblem I could imagine maybe.
 
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