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The success of Xbox One won't ride on Gears of War and Halo- it's all about new IP

M

Mr. Nice_Guy

Member
Nightengale said:
For new IPs to take off in a trend-setting/system-seller way is so hard these days. Games of that calibre tend to be games that captivate almost immediately and does so many things well in execution, and that one-two combo of perfection is rare.

I mean, Watch_Dogs, Division, NMS and Titanfall were such games. They came out the gate with their reveal instantly captivating audiences.
Click to expand...

Wait I'm lost, are you saying those titles are examples of trend-setting/system-seller calibre, or that they had potential and didn't come through? None of those games had launches that did "so many things well in execution", and only two of them have proven to have legs thanks to patches and content add ons afterword, (Division and Destiny).

Nightengale said:
Better is definitely a subject of opinion.

Diverse though? If you consider all the Japanese games and Asian-exclusive titles that GAF doesn't care about like Super Robot Wars, diversity is in Sony's favour in a way I could consider not really a matter of opinion.

Not that diversity means anything if no one cares for it.
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This I agree with though. The PS4 being a more diverse system game wise really isn't subjective when you take into account all the different Japanese games they have, some of which are getting english releases in Asia you can import if you're interested. But it really doesn't matter if you don't care for the games. So happy the SRW games are getting english releases though.
 
T

theWB27

Member
MatrixMan.EXE said:
I disagree because has been mentioned, you're seeing an increasing number of studios that cannot facilitate the creation of a big budget new IP. Like my example above, if Microsoft wanted to create an open world RPG like Horizon, who would make it for them? They have no internal studios equipt for that, and SE, CD Projekt Red or Bethesda certainly aren't going to do it for them. If they wanted to make something like Uncharted or TLOU, who would make it for them now that Remedy has moved on?
Click to expand...


My first question is why would they focus on delivering sonys experience on xbox? Picking their games based off not having a game like Sony is silly.
 
M

MatrixMan.EXE

Member
theWB27 said:
My first question is why would they focus on delivering sonys experience on xbox? Picking their games based off not having a game like Sony is silly.
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They don't need to at all, but I was choosing games/game genre's that are popular and aren't necessarily represented in Microsoft's first party catalogue. Remember when Phil Spencer said they wanted something to compete with Uncharted which brought about the Tomb Raider deal? Plugging genre gaps in your IP line up with timed exclusive deals like that isn't sustainable.

Like I say, they've done a great job this generation of creating new IP, despite the lack of commercial success. But to continue to do so and find that breakout hit, I'd imagine that they'd need to new 1st party studios. That's a hard thing to set up and takes years though, so ideally should have been started in the 360 days.
 
K

Kaako

Felium Defensor
New IP is best IP. Hope they really stick to this and fund new interesting first party projects.
This is the correct line of thinking instead of pumping Gears & Halos every year.
 
E

EmiPrime

Member
theWB27 said:
And they've delivered new things this gen. Whether you like them is another thing.

They aren't less exclusive just because they contracted a studio to make them instead. Microsoft clearly has a way they like to make their exclusives and there's nothing inherently wrong with it. We're still getting the games.
Click to expand...

Their first parties haven't, that's my point.

Titanfall was MS' biggest game of 2014 and the sequel is coming to PS4. If Sunset Overdrive 2 ever happens it will probably be on PS4 (Insomniac own the IP). Crytek own the Ryse IP so if they ever get back on their feet and find a publisher for Ryse 2, that could be a PS4 game too. ROTTR being a one year exclusive was an open secret, same for Dead Rising 4 this year.

Exclusivity deals and second party arrangements are not a replacement for first party especially nowadays when studios are less willing to sign away their IP ownership. Given the Xbox One's distant second place MS are hardly negotiating from a position of strength which explains why these deals have gradually dried up. That wouldn't matter so much if they had more first party studios to make up for the shortfall.
 
S

Shin-chan

Member
notworksafe said:
MS is all about Play Anywhere now. I think Obsidian could work with MS and still put out their game on PC
Click to expand...
But MS already burned that bridge didn't they? I read a while back that Obsidian were making a AAA RPG for them and it didn't pan out and Obsidian ended up really fucked over by the process.

I think it was in a relatively recent thread where Obsidian were discussing their future aims and goals. They essentially ruled out this sort of project for the time being due to the high risk low reward it yields for them.
 
S

Shin-chan

Member
Loch Doun said:
lol
Click to expand...

Yes, I think opening at 100k in the U.K. And 500k in the US at retail would be considered a big success for an IP only available on one platform (for the purpose of these figures and the charts). For the record this is better than the majority of other exclusive software this gen.
 
I

Infernostew

Member
Shin-chan said:
But MS already burned that bridge didn't they? I read a while back that Obsidian were making a AAA RPG for them and it didn't pan out and Obsidian ended up really fucked over by the process.

I think it was in a relatively recent thread where Obsidian were discussing their future aims and goals. They essentially ruled out this sort of project for the time being due to the high risk low reward it yields for them.
Click to expand...

MS cancelling that Obsidian XB1 project almost sank the studio. The kickstarter saved them.
 
T

Triggerhappytel

Member
Poohblaster said:
I think Sony has shown us with the PS4 that exclusive games matter very little if you have sales momentum like they do. Microsoft on the other hand has done very well this gen diversifying it's first and second party output.
Click to expand...

Sure, I mean if you ignore the fact that the PS4 has far more exclusives than the Xbone I guess?
 
F

funkystudent

Member
I still think one of the biggest fumbles MS made this gen was cancelling that Black Tusk new IP in favour of more Gears of War.

A new AAAA IP from Microsoft that is meant to go along side Gears and Halo was sorely needed. Still is.

Gears and Halo where obviously on a bit of a downward slop. Maybe they can come back up again but still... MS has put too many eggs in those IP's baskets as is. Look at how Halo 5 failed to move the needle for them when Halo used to be this giant mega event. Its kind of sad.



Sony first party is a bit of a trash fire most of the time but at least they managed to try and sprinkle some new AAA IP in between the safe sequels.
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
Shiggy said:
I strongly believe the ship has long sailed for the Xbox One. Wasn't it available for less than 150€ just a few days ago? They'd need much much more than just new IPs, they'd need a complete rebranding. Or probably just an entirely new system which is not linked to the Xbox One brand at all. .
Click to expand...

I would agree with this if they were to launch a new generation in a few years, but it's not the case anymore.

With their strategy now it doesn't matter that xb1 has been having lackluster sales. they are moving the platform from being tied to the console to being tied to your profile, and are continually making all your games and accessories work on many xbox or Pc.

Even if the growth is slow due the xb1 launch misteps, they don't really have to do anything that different from what they are already doing to have a sizeable userbase on xbox and win10 users very soon, and at that point keep releasing new games and features will be enough to their users happy on the platform.

Not reseting their userbase anymore, and have the platform untied from the hardware with more frequent releases will be very good for them. I think we will never see another xbone situation again, not because they won't ever pursue kinect or an all in one box again, but because since now the accessories work anywhere (and thus no longer need to be tackled on a games console), and the fact that they will no longer hold games from a previous console to increase the lineup of the new one, no one will see a media push as drifting away from games.
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
Nightengale said:
Better is definitely a subject of opinion.

Diverse though? If you consider all the Japanese games and Asian-exclusive titles that GAF doesn't care about like Super Robot Wars, diversity is in Sony's favour in a way I could consider not really a matter of opinion.

Not that diversity means anything if no one cares for it.
Click to expand...

But then that's comparing all the exclusive titles a console has, to a single publisher output.

As a publisher, imo Ms has been killing it on xbone, only one game I didn't really liked (that unfortunately was the one I wanted to love the most), from many genres, creators and sizes.
 
S

StrongBlackVine

Banned
funkystudent said:
I still think one of the biggest fumbles MS made this gen was cancelling that Black Tusk new IP in favour of more Gears of War.

A new AAAA IP from Microsoft that is meant to go along side Gears and Halo was sorely needed. Still is.

Gears and Halo where obviously on a bit of a downward slop. Maybe they can come back up again but still... MS has put too many eggs in those IP's baskets as is. Look at how Halo 5 failed to move the needle for them when Halo used to be this giant mega event. Its kind of sad.



Sony first party is a bit of a trash fire most of the time but at least they managed to try and sprinkle some new AAA IP in between the safe sequels.
Click to expand...

A trash fire with two the of the highest rated games this generation and lots of other solid ones. /s
 
O

OldMan

Banned
Microsoft just needs to drop a bunch of exclusives and let the games do the talking. If they succeed, hell, drop a sequel. Sooner or later you'll have Quantum Break 2, or a Overdrive 2 etc.
 
S

StrongBlackVine

Banned
OldMan said:
Microsoft just needs to drop a bunch of exclusives and let the games do the talking. If they succeed, hell, drop a sequel. Sooner or later you'll have Quantum Break 2, or a Overdrive 2 etc.
Click to expand...

AAA game development is too expensive to just throw a bunch of shit against the wall to see what sticks.
 
N

novabolt

Member
Microsoft needs a structure for their development teams, even if they had 8 developers ranging from A - AA - AAA, they would be in a better position (software wise).
 
M

Matt

Member
Well Microsoft has pretty throughly gutted most of their first party studios. Most everything that's left are dedicated to single franchises. They have some coals in the fire...but there really isn't going to be a flood of new IPs coming from that camp.
 
W

w0s

Member
Agreed. They are good to have but continuing to develop and find new franchises that make others want to jump in.
 
xviper

xviper

Member
Because Sony have lots of successful new IP's for ps4, right ?, every single new IP sony made for PS4 is a disappointment, don't tell me Bloodborne, because it's just Demon's souls 4

the only new IP from sony that could be a success is Horizon, we will have to wait and see

meanwhile Xbox one had Sunset Overdrive and Ori and the blind forest and both of them are underrated as hell because they are amazing
 
N

novabolt

Member
xviper said:
Because Sony have lots of successful new IP's for ps4, right ?, every single new IP sony made for PS4 is a disappointment, don't tell me Bloodborne, because it's just Demon's souls 5

the only new IP from sony that could be a success is Horizon, we will have to wait and see

meanwhile Xbox one had Sunset Overdrive and Ori and the blind forest and both of them are underrated as hell because they are amazing
Click to expand...

They are both in a rut but Sony has BB and TLOU.
 
B

Blackleg-sanji1

Banned
xviper said:
Because Sony have lots of successful new IP's for ps4, right ?, every single new IP sony made for PS4 is a disappointment, don't tell me Bloodborne, because it's just Demon's souls 5

the only new IP from sony that could be a success is Horizon, we will have to wait and see

meanwhile Xbox one had Sunset Overdrive and Ori and the blind forest and both of them are underrated as hell because they are amazing
Click to expand...
I'll never understand the console warrior mentality. Thread about Xbox, "yea well Sony"...jeez
 
O

OldMan

Banned
StrongBlackVine said:
AAA game development is too expensive to just throw a bunch of shit against the wall to see what sticks.
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You are saying those games are shit? I don't know I never played them but thought they were well relieved but realistically not getting sequels I was just trying to make a point.

Nobodies kidding no one. Gears and Halo have ALWAYS drove Xbox sales.
 
N

novabolt

Member
xviper said:
like i said, Bloodborne is Demon's souls 5 and TLOU is a ps3 game
Click to expand...

Demon's Souls 2 to 4 hasn't even been made yet lol. TLOU is a weird one, it came out at the end of PS3 life cycle and near the being of the PS4 life cycle, wouldn't it be a hybrid of some sorts?

Blackleg-sanji1 said:
I'll never understand the console warrior mentality. Thread about Xbox, "yea well Sony"...jeez
Click to expand...

People thrive on it and they aren't exactly breaking the rules, so I doubt they will get punished for being a console saiyan warrior.
 
T

theWB27

Member
EmiPrime said:
Their first parties haven't, that's my point.

Titanfall was MS' biggest game of 2014 and the sequel is coming to PS4. If Sunset Overdrive 2 ever happens it will probably be on PS4 (Insomniac own the IP). Crytek own the Ryse IP so if they ever get back on their feet and find a publisher for Ryse 2, that could be a PS4 game too. ROTTR being a one year exclusive was an open secret, same for Dead Rising 4 this year.

Exclusivity deals and second party arrangements are not a replacement for first party especially nowadays when studios are less willing to sign away their IP ownership. Given the Xbox One's distant second place MS are hardly negotiating from a position of strength which explains why these deals have gradually dried up. That wouldn't matter so much if they had more first party studios to make up for the shortfall.
Click to expand...

I think that's a thing for Microsoft. Not demanding to own the IP. Microsoft isn't doing bad in second place though. They aren't going to beat Sony in sales. I think they know that with their PC plan.

I also think they know 1st party just isn't as important as forums like to pretend. They don't drive systems the way 3rd party do. Which is why having something like COD as the main marketer is such a big thing. They have tentpole franchises and go about their other IP by contracting. There's just no need to be financially responsible for a studio beyond funding a game.

There has not been a shortfall of exclusives this gen. That's just false. Getting studios hasn't dried up. Making deals on games they didn't start has though.
 
K

KingBroly

Banned
Shin-chan said:
Yes, I think opening at 100k in the U.K. And 500k in the US at retail would be considered a big success for an IP only available on one platform (for the purpose of these figures and the charts). For the record this is better than the majority of other exclusive software this gen.
Click to expand...

Whatever Hello Games makes next is probably going to be a massive bomb.
 
Ascenion

Ascenion

Member
It would probabaly help if their biggest studios weren't solely devoted to one IP. Turn 10: Forza factory, Coalition: Gears factory, 343: Halo factory. Rare at least has utility but who knows currently. Lionhead should've been given a crack at Fable 4 or at least something new that wasn't Fable related. At least before they had most genres covered. They need to go out and get utility studios that can and are allowed to make anything. So far though I like the effort they are giving with Ori, SO, Recore and so on. I hope they aren't discouraged. Keep trying MS, something will stick.
 
bitbydeath

bitbydeath

Member
theWB27 said:
I think that's a thing for Microsoft. Not demanding to own the IP. Microsoft isn't doing bad in second place though. They aren't going to beat Sony in sales. I think they know that with their PC plan.

I also think they know 1st party just isn't as important as forums like to pretend. They don't drive systems the way 3rd party do. Which is why having something like COD as the main marketer is such a big thing. They have tentpole franchises and go about their other IP by contracting. There's just no need to be financially responsible for a studio beyond funding a game.

There has not been a shortfall of exclusives this gen. That's just false. Getting studios hasn't dried up. Making deals on games they didn't start has though.
Click to expand...

So how do you explain the 30m gap if it not being for exclusives?
 
D

Doukou

Member
bitbydeath said:
So how do you explain the 30m gap if it not being for exclusives?
Click to expand...

There are tons of reasons, exclusives are one of them but I wouldn't say it is the most important one or even close to being the most important. Worldwide appeal/brand and the original Xbox One plan are probably the biggest reasons.
 
S

Shin-chan

Member
KingBroly said:
Whatever Hello Games makes next is probably going to be a massive bomb.
Click to expand...
How is that relevant to the sales of NMS though?

Also, Destiny got a ton of shit on release as well and yet less engaged gamers loved it and continue to eat it up. Destiny 2 will be even bigger.

I'm not saying they're going to go from success to success, just that some internet outrage (which has by and large blown over a month after release) is not going to impact the success of their next project.
 
Shpeshal Nick

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
They have at least tried this gen thus far.

Ryse
Ori
Sunset Overdrive
Sea of Thieves
Quantum Break
ReCore
Scalebound
Cuphead

These are all brand new IP that weren't all necessarily created by Microsoft, but partially exist because of them. Hard to argue they aren't at least trying.
 
D

DriftingSpirit

Member
Collingwood said:
They have at least tried this gen thus far.

Ryse
Ori
Sunset Overdrive
Sea of Thieves
Quantum Break
ReCore
Scalebound
Cuphead

These are all brand new IP that weren't all necessarily created by Microsoft, but partially exist because of them. Hard to argue they aren't at least trying.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'll give MS that. They went out and got stuff created.
 
L

Lingitiz

Member
bitbydeath said:
So how do you explain the 30m gap if it not being for exclusives?
Click to expand...
Marketing. The mass market didn't buy a PS4 in the first year for Killzone Shadowfall and Infamous. They bought it as the system for NBA 2K, COD, Battlefield, and Destiny. Combine that with Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot with pricing and PR and Sony saying all the right stuff, and they dominated mindshare as the most approachable and simple console.

Exclusives matter, but no Sony exclusive outside of Uncharted 4 has been one to point at as the driver of sales. It's been the third party deals and smart marketing combined with boneheaded competitor messaging.
 
M

MatrixMan.EXE

Member
xviper said:
like i said, Bloodborne is Demon's souls 4 and TLOU is a ps3 game
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You can't really discount TLOU insofar as it's a new IP and launched 5 months before the effective end of generation 7 critical acclaim and huge commercial success. Naughty Dog essentially churned out two new 6m+ selling IP in one generation.

Also Bloodborne isn't 'just Demon's Souls 4'. Christ almighty.

Collingwood said:
They have at least tried this gen thus far.

Ryse
Ori
Sunset Overdrive
Sea of Thieves
Quantum Break
ReCore
Scalebound
Cuphead

These are all brand new IP that weren't all necessarily created by Microsoft, but partially exist because of them. Hard to argue they aren't at least trying.
Click to expand...

This is what I keep saying. It's not as if they're not trying. They are putting out some great games this generation. Their real problem is that due to the lack of success of those IP and the fact that save for Sea of Thieves and Ori, they're all short-term second party deals, as Matt said, expect that to start drying up very quickly.
 
A

Angel_DvA

Member
Collingwood said:
They have at least tried this gen thus far.

Ryse
Ori
Sunset Overdrive
Sea of Thieves
Quantum Break
ReCore
Scalebound
Cuphead

These are all brand new IP that weren't all necessarily created by Microsoft, but partially exist because of them. Hard to argue they aren't at least trying.
Click to expand...

Those are New IPs for sure but with 0 potential for most of them, only Ori was amazing on that list and SOE doesn't looks like a great game whatsoever, if they want to be successful they need to do better than that.
 
S

Shin-chan

Member
Saying Bloodborne is just Demons Souls 4 is like saying Quantum Break is just Max Payne 4. I mean they're basically the same thing, give or take!
 
W

What A Time To Be Alive

Member
Exclusive IP's don't matter anymore. People buy consoles for multiplatform games which is what always get me when people say power doesn't matter in consoles now, yes it does. A lot of the PS4's initial momentum was because it was more powerful than the Xbox One (with some slick marketing from Sony after that of course, #4TheGamers lol).

Scorpio is Microsoft's only hope of putting themselves really back on the map (sales-wise I guess) new IP's are cool but it's not the most important factor anymore.
 
E

etta

my hard graphic balls
Shin-chan said:
Saying Bloodborne is just Demons Souls 4 is like saying Quantum Break is just Max Payne 4. I mean they're basically the same thing, give or take!
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While I don't agree BB is DS4, BB is a fuckton closer to DS than QB is to MP.
Like, not even comparable.
 
Shpeshal Nick

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
MatrixMan.EXE said:
You can't really discount TLOU insofar as it's a new IP and launched 5 months before the effective end of generation 7 critical acclaim and huge commercial success. Naughty Dog essentially churned out two new 6m+ selling IP in one generation.

Also Bloodborne isn't 'just Demon's Souls 4'. Christ almighty.



This is what I keep saying. It's not as if they're not trying. They are putting out some great games this generation. Their real problem is that due to the lack of success of those IP and the fact that save for Sea of Thieves and Ori, they're all short-term second party deals, as Matt said, expect that to start drying up very quickly.
Click to expand...

Angel_DvA said:
Those are New IPs for sure but with 0 potential for most of them, only Ori was amazing on that list and SOE doesn't looks like a great game whatsoever, if they want to be successful they need to do better than that.
Click to expand...

The issue is that Microsoft isn't giving these new IPs a chance to grow. If the first game isn't an absolute smash, they abandon it. That's the ACTUAL problem.

Microsoft creates new IPs, they always have. The reason this myth about them never creating new games exists, is because they create them and abandon them. So everyone forgets them. They need to commit to giving these new games sequels regardless of sales of the first game. Uncharted is a prime example of that. The first game wasn't an absolute monster sales wise, but everyone could see there was a good game there. So Sony and Naught Dog persisted. The rest is history.

For me, Sunset Overdrive, Ryse, Ori and ReCore are all games that lay amazing foundations for what could be truly phenomenal sequels if handled properly.
 
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