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Do Batman's parents need to be murdered?
- Thread starter Solid SOAP
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Extra Sauce
Member
I was joking at first but now I actually want that.
Wtf? So because Batman doesn't straight up murder the Joker he's responsible for the crimes he commits when he escapes? So when a police officer arrests someone instead of murdering them, it's their fault if the prisoner later escapes and murders someone?
To be fair, that describes many rich white guys.
Hah! Daredevil didn't see that coming
lol what the fuck
batman's entire character is based on that traumatic, life changing experience.
I suppose they could give him another traumatic, life changing experience as his backstory, but I think both of his parents being murdered in cold blood in front of his face has worked pretty well for the last 75 years.
it's an iconic visual for that scene at this point. it's not going anywhere
Yes you can, shut up
No, he wouldn't be the Batman side of trying to save Gotham, just the Bruce Wayne side: charities, funding police, affordable housing for low income families, job opportunities, etc. Why would he go and do his intense training and fund all this armor and weaponry to become a vigilante just because Gotham is messed up? Not to mention his parents were already working at making it better so with a couple decades before Bruce goes into his own and takes over Gotham may have become better. Not good per se, but better.
davidwhangchoi
Member
honestly i thought this was about Frank Castle.
No way Bruce Wayne becomes batman without his experience with his parents death at a young age.
if they died of natural cause while he was young or at a healthy old age, you wouldn't see a batman.
No way Bruce Wayne becomes batman without his experience with his parents death at a young age.
if they died of natural cause while he was young or at a healthy old age, you wouldn't see a batman.
Astral Dog
Member
Yes, thats the whole point of his origin story, he is dealing with his parents death.
Though there is an alternate story were Thomas Wayne becomes Bat.an and Martha the Joker
Though there is an alternate story were Thomas Wayne becomes Bat.an and Martha the Joker
balladofwindfishes
Member
They should make more comics about of Flashpoint Batman. That was a really interesting story, but even the focus comic on him didn't really go deep into it.
Penguin is his Alfred, Martha is the Joker and Cat Woman is Oracle. And the Joker has her own Harley Quin type side kick, but an entirely different person. There's a lot of interesting alternate reality stories there they could write. I wanted to see where the rest of Batman's foes ended up (although I guess we do get some of that, since Clayface is a pirate).
Spike Spiegel
Member
Yes. However, it doesn't need to be brought up in every Batman story ever told, and it doesn't need to be presented as the only relatable humanizing aspect of Bruce's character in how he identifies with others.
Astral Dog
Member
Does the Joker need to be thrown in a pool of Chemicals as backstory too?
Agreed. One of the best aspects about Morrison's Batman is the fact that he has completely moved on from that event.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Flashpoint and it was amazing.
Well it could be the death of his boyfriend Alfred in a different universe.
But if there's no reason other than to be cool to wear costumes and punch people in the streets then you're not going to have a good story
But if there's no reason other than to be cool to wear costumes and punch people in the streets then you're not going to have a good story
This isn't a constant at all though right?
Nemesis121
Member
He's not Batman without their murders, he just Bruce Wayne the rich kid..
Too bed you can't shut the hole in his head
People say this, but honestly Batman doesn't "snap." Dude is (despite what the memes say) lawful good. A methodical genius bent on always doing what is right and following a strict code. To me, his behavior is actually at odds with his origin. He is NOT driven by vengeance. He is NOT driven by mental instability. He is a goody goody with a ninja suit.
Batman could be motivated by the same stuff that motivates Tony Stark and I think it'd play just fine. Or he could be a cop working around a corrupt system and leading a double life. Or he could be a guy who sold his soul to save his parents and now seeks to redeem himself. Or he could be the ghost of a dead hero. He could be anything. He is a cypher. It's not like he is a three dimensional character in most portrayals really.
Or is the idea that his parents' is death necessary to justify his grim/dark persona as a tortured loner?
excelsiorlef
Member
And that story is literally about Batman inspiring Batman to be Batman....
The Waynes still died at the beginning of that story.
Yes, and we need to see them get murdered as many times as possible.
Batman's Parents Dying: The Supercut
Batman's Parents Dying: The Supercut
Tortured loner who has like six kids and a huge supporting cast.
I think some sort of (childhood) trauma is important to the character and themes of the story. Like you said, Bruce doesn't snap. That's the point. You can suffer traumatic events and have them fuel you to do good. (As opposed to his villains who experience trauma and then harm others.)
Know who has the best origin? Mr. Terrfic
He got tired of being good at everything, and decided to take on crime fighting. His superpower is pretty much white privilege
Woah! I have the same power! White pow--- oh... right.
They'd have to be shot and rendered as immobile as dead, if not killed. It'd have to be utterly hopeless.
Batman presents the only way that he can make sense of his place in the world, and I don't think that could happen if his parents ever recovered from the shooting. He essentially becomes a lost cause, with no ties (at least initially), and he finds a cause he's willing to die in the pursuit of (a crime-free Gotham).
excelsiorlef
Member
It was also literally a dream.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
elrechazado
Banned
So...iron man?
MikeBreezy92
Member
So that whole "I AM VENGENCE" part is done
Trauma is the key, having his parents murdered in front of him traumatized him, you don't need to kill his parents, but you'd need another source of trauma.
Technically speaking, Iron man is more effective than batman, batman's rogues are usually low lives, mobsters, murderers and such, yeah he has a few metahuman rogues, but batman's main thing is regular crime and organized crime.
Iron man's enemies usually are guys with super powers or tech that can only be beaten by stark tech,
Technically speaking, Iron man is more effective than batman, batman's rogues are usually low lives, mobsters, murderers and such, yeah he has a few metahuman rogues, but batman's main thing is regular crime and organized crime.
Iron man's enemies usually are guys with super powers or tech that can only be beaten by stark tech,
I think the disconnect with batman is not that he's a vigilante, but that he is a billionaire, he could use his money to improve conditions in gotham and he could be more effective that way, but no, he dresses as a bat and punches criminals and mentally ill people.
Your suggestion is basically a soft version of the punisher.
L
Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
What about the guys that just want to watch the world burn though.
Yup, I totally agree. It was a neat world that warrants more exploration.
elrechazado
Banned
Question is about his motivation, not his opponents.
My problem with the backstory is that it doesn't make any sense.
Like, he sees his parents get shot and killed in an alley and bats were involved. He then proceeds to do nothing of any real note for most of his childhood, before pitzing around for a couple years. Then he comes back and he's Batman now.
Is he a tortured soul? Sometimes, but not really. Is he a loner? Not really, he's got the bat family and rarely gives off the vibe that he's actively pushing people away outside of the batman persona. Is he psycho or a broken man? No, he borders on Superman levels of moral fortitude and mental discipline and functions pretty well in society. His backstory "works" because it has elements that you can bluntly tie to Batman (the persona), but it doesn't logically make sense in terms of how he became who he is nor does it accurately describe the vast majority of his portrayals. It's a tragic past that doesn't actually make sense even by (modern) comic book standards, but we buy it because it's tragic.
It's not even that hard to fix his origin story. Make it so that instead of fucking around after their deaths, he gets involved and pushes further with the community outreach/philanthropy because he now knows the importance of his parents work. Have some other smaller traumas that actually relate to and lead up to him creating the persona of Batman, then pull a Mat Murdoc and have something make him realize that his philanthropy work can't fix all Gotham's problems etc... Keep the whole fear of bats thing, but he got over it early on (because he might as well be over it as he is currently), and uses it as a driving motivator for his , it's relationship to his parents death being emblematic of why he can't give up on Gotham a.k.a why he made the persona based around bats.
Boom, him becoming batman has a logical through line and he's not just fucking around for 15-20 years. Bruce Wayne not being a psycho in most iterations makes sense with the character because you have a non-crazy route to get there, but you still have room for it if the writer wants mentally unhinged Batman.
Like, he sees his parents get shot and killed in an alley and bats were involved. He then proceeds to do nothing of any real note for most of his childhood, before pitzing around for a couple years. Then he comes back and he's Batman now.
Is he a tortured soul? Sometimes, but not really. Is he a loner? Not really, he's got the bat family and rarely gives off the vibe that he's actively pushing people away outside of the batman persona. Is he psycho or a broken man? No, he borders on Superman levels of moral fortitude and mental discipline and functions pretty well in society. His backstory "works" because it has elements that you can bluntly tie to Batman (the persona), but it doesn't logically make sense in terms of how he became who he is nor does it accurately describe the vast majority of his portrayals. It's a tragic past that doesn't actually make sense even by (modern) comic book standards, but we buy it because it's tragic.
It's not even that hard to fix his origin story. Make it so that instead of fucking around after their deaths, he gets involved and pushes further with the community outreach/philanthropy because he now knows the importance of his parents work. Have some other smaller traumas that actually relate to and lead up to him creating the persona of Batman, then pull a Mat Murdoc and have something make him realize that his philanthropy work can't fix all Gotham's problems etc... Keep the whole fear of bats thing, but he got over it early on (because he might as well be over it as he is currently), and uses it as a driving motivator for his , it's relationship to his parents death being emblematic of why he can't give up on Gotham a.k.a why he made the persona based around bats.
Boom, him becoming batman has a logical through line and he's not just fucking around for 15-20 years. Bruce Wayne not being a psycho in most iterations makes sense with the character because you have a non-crazy route to get there, but you still have room for it if the writer wants mentally unhinged Batman.
In many versions of his origin he isn't just fucking about and then becomes Batman. Many of them have him getting involved int raining across the world in various things to further his goal to fight crime in Gotham. Batman the Animated Series actually covers this pretty well. Batman did everything from studying escape artist and illusion from Zatanna's father to studying Akido and other martial Arts in Japan and so on. In many others he joins up with the Raz al Ghul and trains under him and so on.
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