NeoGAF

argon · 11:25 AM

BusinessWeek has an interview with Miyamoto and Kenichiro Ashida.. Some interesting insight into the design process of the Wii.

http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...580_page_2.htm

The whole interview is pretty interesting, but here are a few highlights..

Originally Posted by Miyamoto

We tested all kinds of technologies for the controller. We made working prototypes and tested them on games to see how they might be used. We actually were ready to show off the controller at E3 [Electronic Entertainment Expo, the annual video game conference in Los Angeles] in 2005, but we had some troubleshooting to do. So we decided not to reveal the controller and instead we displayed just the console.

Was making a console that would cost $250 or less the goal from the start?

Miyamoto: Originally, I wanted a machine that would cost $100. My idea was to spend nothing on the console technology so all the money could be spent on improving the interface and software. If we hadn't used NAND flash memory [to store data such as games and photos] and other pricey parts, we might have succeeded.

To answer your questions, yes, we set out to design a console that would sell for less than 25,000 yen ($211). It was a tall hurdle. But unless you start off with a target, you can't control costs and you'll inevitably lose money. Also, we thought a low-cost console would make moms happy.

Were there any nongame controllers that you looked to for inspiration?

Ashida: Miyamoto brought in cell phones and car navigation remote controllers and tried them, too. We made one that resembled a cell phone. Another one had an analog stick on top and digital interface on bottom.

The DS handheld gaming console, released in 2004, is now the hottest-selling portable video game machine. Did the success of the DS influence your design decisions?

Ashida: The DS had a huge impact on the Wii's design. We had the DS on our minds as we worked on the Wii. We thought about copying the DS's touch-panel interface and even came up with a prototype. But then we rejected the idea, since the portable console and the living-room console would have been exactly the same.

What were the biggest technical challenges in the controller redesign?

Ashida: The controller's wireless technology. It took two years.

Miyamoto: Getting the infrared pointer to work took more than a year. It worked just fine in the ideal environment. But bright lights and sunlight interfered with its accuracy. And we had to test it in rooms of all sizes. The final version wasn't finished until this summer.

We also had reservations about adding a sensor bar to boost the pointer's precision, since we wanted to make the setup as simple as possible. Combining the different technologies to mimic 3D space recognition took time. By the end of 2005, it was ready for mass production. But we were making adjustments up to the last minute.

kikonawa · (11-16-2006, 11:17 AM)

so instead of a cube 1.5 they planned a cube 0.75 now? :D

soundwave05 · 11:24 AM

Pretty much what I've said Nintendo's philosophy here was. Make the system itself a non-barrier to sales, by using a chipset that's so cheap that it's an extreme impulse buy.

But they couldn't resist marking it up at launch because of the PS3 price repurcussions. IMO the system probably really costs Nintendo about $170 or so right now to manufacture, maybe even less. 512MB of flash RAM memory is the main thing keeping the system away from $100? The chipset itself must be dirt freaking cheap.

LCGeek · (11-16-2006, 11:20 AM)

Makes me happy they decided to make Wii what GC/Dolphin should've been and then some.

hadareud · (11-16-2006, 11:21 AM)

I'm still very disappointed by the Wii's price point - they say they wanted to make it affordable and ended up putting out their most expensive console so far.

I still don't know if I'm going to get it this year already. I'll probably wait a few months.

_Alkaline_ · (11-16-2006, 11:22 AM)

Originally Posted by soundwave05

Pretty much what I've said Nintendo's philosophy here was. Make the system itself a non-barrier to sales, by using a chipset that's so cheap that it's an extreme impulse buy.

But they couldn't resist marking it up at launch because of the PS3 price repurcussions. IMO the system probably really costs Nintendo about $170 or so right now to manufacture, maybe even less.

One, retail wanted it to be $250, Nintendo were highly considering $200.

Two, just because a console is $100 doesn't mean it'll sell really well. For many who see such a cheap price tag, they immediately assume inferiority and thus avoid buying it.

soundwave05 · (11-16-2006, 11:23 AM)

Originally Posted by Alkaliine

One, retail wanted it to be $250, Nintendo were highly considering $200.

Two, just because a console is $100 doesn't mean it'll sell really well. For many who see such a cheap price tag, they immediately assume inferiority and thus avoid buying it.

I don't believe retail had that much influence, Nintendo knows they'll also make a fat profit at $250 and can get away with it for the time. Sure, they'll get a break from retailers too, but $250 probably also covers their marketing costs entirely and then some.

The system itself IMO is probably a $150 machine. If they really had to, they could sell it at that price and not even take much of a loss.

DarknessTear · (11-16-2006, 11:24 AM)

Well I know I'd buy it with no second thoughts at that price. That was part of the reason I got a Gamecube. FF game + $100 price tag.

nelsonroyale · (11-16-2006, 11:24 AM)

thats how much the wii should cost dammit...its like $300 in the uk

AniHawk · (11-16-2006, 11:26 AM)

Originally Posted by DarknessTear

Well I know I'd buy it with no second thoughts at that price. That was part of the reason I got a Gamecube. FF game + $100 price tag.

Yeah, that's why I would get a Gamecube. Crystal Chronicles.

Lobster · (11-16-2006, 11:26 AM)

It would have sold..but not many people would bother with games..They would just buy games for their "hefty" priced consoles..Price does effect image.

Fio · (11-16-2006, 11:29 AM)

Hopefully my mom will never meet with Miyamoto, the old lady rapist.

soundwave05 · (11-16-2006, 11:29 AM)

This gives Nintendo extreme pricing flexibility in 2007 though, because the controller costs will come down dramatically with mass production ... and really how much is 512MB flash RAM and WiFi going to cost in 2007? Nothing. When they get more "non-games" out for the system and want to more aggressively court non-gamers, they can price the machine accordingly.

The thing that pisses me off though is if Nintendo had kept the $250 price but let IBM/ATi spend that money back into the chipset, I think really they could have gotten themselves a very, very nice chipset at 480p and even HD support for certain games. Something that really would've totally destroyed the GC/XBox at least. And then by summer 2007, they still could've dropped the price.

radioheadrule83 · (11-16-2006, 11:29 AM)

Originally Posted by nelsonroyale

thats how much the wii should cost dammit...its like $300 in the uk

Thats more indicative of the domestic crapfest that is our games industry though... we obviously value games/machines too much if we're willing to spend it. Not that I'm any better myself, I'll be shelling out in December myself.

You've got Wii at a $300 equivilent, PSP at around the same, 360 and PS3 at increasingly astronomical equivilents.

Striek · (11-16-2006, 11:32 AM)

I wonder just how close they got.

LCGeek · (11-16-2006, 11:37 AM)

Originally Posted by soundwave05

This gives Nintendo extreme pricing flexibility in 2007 though, because the controller costs will come down dramatically with mass production ... and really how much is 512MB flash RAM and WiFi going to cost in 2007? Nothing. When they get more "non-games" out for the system and want to more aggressively court non-gamers, they can price the machine accordingly.

The thing that pisses me off though is if Nintendo had kept the $250 price but let IBM/ATi spend that money back into the chipset, I think really they could have gotten themselves a very, very nice chipset at 480p and even HD support for certain games. Something that really would've totally destroyed the GC/XBox at least. And then by summer 2007, they still could've dropped the price.

BC then size is why Wii is lacking so much power when you think of options nintendo could've took to make a powerful system. BTW Wii does destroy GC/Xbox the ram increase, more storage space, cpu, and the fact hollywood is no longer gimped because of nec manufacturing problem make the system do it on paper quite well.

DarknessTear · (11-16-2006, 11:38 AM)

Originally Posted by AniHawk

Yeah, that's why I would get a Gamecube. Crystal Chronicles.

What can I say, I was a FF whore. I didn't care about any other games at the time.

Oh and by the way, I love FFCC. :P

soundwave05 · 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Hatorade

BC then size is why Wii is lacking so much power when you think of options nintendo could've took to make a powerful system. BTW Wii does destroy GC/Xbox the ram increase, more storage space, cpu, and the fact hollywood is no longer gimped because of nec manufacturing problem make the system do it on paper quite well.

I don't really understand why the console has to be *that* small either. Was the GameCube/SNES/N64 size machine too big? Especailly with the vertical designs of today's consoles, they eat up a lot less space.

Something the size of the Dreamcast or SNES wouldn't have killed anybody. You still need to be in a decent sized room to play the Wii because you need to be able to stand 6 feet away from the sensor bar for the controller to work effectively. The size of the Wii IMO is more style over substance.

I think ATi/IBM could've given Nintendo more along the lines of 1.5 GHz IBM CPU/330 MHz GPU/192MB RAM or thereabouts quite easily at that price point with a beefier GPU at that. And still been much, much smaller than a 360 or PS3. The graphics wouldn't have been quite as good as the PS3/360, but I think to casuals, they honestly wouldn't have noticed much of a difference.

drohne · (11-16-2006, 11:40 AM)

"but once we built our $100 machine, we decided we'd rather sell it for $250."

_Alkaline_ · (11-16-2006, 11:43 AM)

Originally Posted by drohne

"but once we built our $100 machine, we decided we'd rather sell it for $250."

Hey drohne!

Smiles and Cries · (11-16-2006, 11:44 AM)

I'm glad Miyamoto does not always get his way, sheesh

LCGeek · (11-16-2006, 11:44 AM)

Originally Posted by soundwave05

I don't really understand why the console has to be *that* small either. Was the GameCube/SNES/N64 size machine too big? Especailly with the vertical designs of today's consoles, they eat up a lot less space.

Something the size of the Dreamcast or SNES wouldn't have killed anybody. You still need to be in a decent sized room to play the Wii because you need to be able to stand 6 feet away from the sensor bar for the controller to work effectively.

I think ATi/IBM could've given Nintendo more along the lines of 1.5 GHz IBM CPU/330 MHz GPU/192MB RAM or thereabouts quite easily at that price point with a beefier GPU at that.

Me neither (size of console), but that's the route nintendo took and I stopped griping about it in may after I found out more about the cpu. Them doing the GPU at that speed would be downright pointless with flipper as ramping it's speed up has proven time and time again to be hard, can't use a new one because of BC. Ram easily should've been 256MB. GPU at the very least from some Wii games, ET, MP3, Pokemon, RS have show improvements because even the best looking GC games don't have some of their effects in the same amounts they do.

X26 · (11-16-2006, 11:47 AM)

Originally Posted by BlindN-Fan

It would have sold..but not many people would bother with games..They would just buy games for their "hefty" priced consoles..Price does effect image.

?

soundwave05 · (11-16-2006, 11:51 AM)

The slot loading DVD drive, flash RAM, WiFi, and motion sensors added to the nunchaku are probably what drove the price above $100.

If you took those out, you're probably looking at $100 piece of kit, as Mr. Miyamoto wanted.

oreelios · (11-16-2006, 11:52 AM)

Originally Posted by Alkaliine

Hey drohne!

(neutral) drohne
Banned

:lol

Never ceases to amuse me :D

The Black Brad Pitt · (11-16-2006, 11:53 AM)

Originally Posted by X26

?

He means people would have bought it as an impulse item or novelty but because it would be so underpowered nobody would bother making worthwhile investments through its games assuming they would still be at the prices they are.

The Black Brad Pitt · (11-16-2006, 11:54 AM)

Originally Posted by drohne

"but once we built our $100 machine, we decided we'd rather sell it for $250."

:lol

Panajev2001a · (11-16-2006, 11:55 AM)

Originally Posted by soundwave05

The slot loading DVD drive, flash RAM, WiFi, and motion sensors added to the nunchaku are probably what drove the price above $100.

If you took those out, you're probably looking at $100 piece of kit, as Mr. Miyamoto wanted.

I am sorry, but are you trying to sell me the idea that without WiFi, Flash RAM and the slot loading drive, the remaining chipset would have close to $100 ?

I do agree with you that if we apply a Nintendo_profit_from_day_one flexible mark-up to the console then we can see how the price levitates, that is... without all those "extras" it would have probably cost, at production, LESS than $100, but it would have been sold at $100...

Lobster · (11-16-2006, 11:57 AM)

Originally Posted by The Black Brad Pitt

He means people would have bought it as an impulse item or novelty but because it would be so underpowered nobody would bother making worthwhile investments through its games assuming they would still be at the prices they are.

Yeah. Pretty much.

wonderfuldays · (11-16-2006, 11:58 AM)

Originally Posted by soundwave05

The slot loading DVD drive, flash RAM, WiFi, and motion sensors added to the nunchaku are probably what drove the price above $100.

If you took those out, you're probably looking at $100 piece of kit, as Mr. Miyamoto wanted.

You forgot the most expensive 1T-SRAM, if they only do half or even as the same as GC, it will cost less.

The Black Brad Pitt · (11-16-2006, 11:59 AM)

Originally Posted by Panajev2001a

I am sorry, but are you trying to sell me the idea that without WiFi, Flash RAM and the slot loading drive, the remaining chipset would have close to $100 ?

I do agree with you that if we apply a Nintendo_profit_from_day_one flexible mark-up to the console then we can see how the price levitates, that is... without all those "extras" it would have probably cost, at production, LESS than $100, but it would have been sold at $100...

Youd probably be correct but only if they take out dvd playback also.

"Whoops"

soundwave05 · (11-16-2006, 11:59 AM)

Originally Posted by wonderfuldays

You forgot the most expansive 1T-SRAM, if they only do half or even as the same as GC, it will cost less.

88MB of RAM doesn't cost shit in 2006 though. Even 1T-SRAM. Nintendo didn't even upgrade to more expensive 1T-SRAM Q memory or whatever that people were calling a shoe-in for the Revolution/Wii like a year ago. The 1T-SRAM they're using in the Wii is the same stuff they used five years on the GameCube.

AniHawk · (11-16-2006, 12:03 PM)

Originally Posted by oreelios

(neutral) drohne
Banned

:lol

Never ceases to amuse me :D

When the hell did they give him that?

I also saw Himuro posting around for some reason. What the hell is going on?

soundwave05 · (11-16-2006, 12:13 PM)

Miyamoto: We had to compromise on graphics and give up on a powerful chip. Many of our employees initially wanted high-definition graphics. But they agreed with us that graphics wouldn't matter if the games weren't fun to play. That said, the Wii is much faster than the GameCube.

As new chip technology becomes available, we'll consider less power-hungry varieties that don't cost too much. And once high-definition TVs take off, we'll consider the merits of better graphics and more power.

WiiHD lives! Praise Dragona :)

Miguel · (11-16-2006, 12:15 PM)

Originally Posted by drohne

"but once we built our $100 machine, we decided we'd rather sell it for $250."

:lol

oreelios · (11-16-2006, 12:17 PM)

Originally Posted by AniHawk

When the hell did they give him that?

No more than 12 minutes after he made that post, apparently. Mods work fast around these parts it seems.

TheIkariWarrior · (11-16-2006, 12:18 PM)

As new chip technology becomes available, we'll consider less power-hungry varieties that don't cost too much. And once high-definition TVs take off, we'll consider the merits of better graphics and more power

oh yes, Wii2 er WiiHD with a leap in horsepower like that of N64 to GCN ?

SUPER WII :D

TheIkariWarrior · (11-16-2006, 12:20 PM)

Ashida: My family was among those that tested the Wii. My son is a second grader. He loved it. After playing, he was completely drenched in sweat.

:lol

soundwave05 · 12:25 PM

I would not have minded a regular Wii console at $199.99 and then a Wii HD for $249.99. All games run on both systems, on the regular Wii they just run at 480p, on Wii HD they run at 720p if programmed to do so. That would've been simple enough.

What happens if HDTVs really take off in the next 2 years? DVD went from a slow adopting format in late 1998 to on-fire by late 2000.

I will :lol my ass off if their next console or upgrade is called "Super Wii".

jett · 12:58 PM

Gotta agree with drohne there. :P

soundwave05 · (11-16-2006, 01:43 PM)

I think Nintendo may adopt a similar style of upgrading to their consoles now as they have with their handhelds ... an updated model every 2 years or something.

Roat · (11-16-2006, 01:48 PM)

Originally Posted by soundwave05

I would not have minded a regular Wii console at $199.99 and then a Wii HD for $249.99. All games run on both systems, on the regular Wii they just run at 480p, on Wii HD they run at 720p if programmed to do so. That would've been simple enough.

What happens if HDTVs really take off in the next 2 years? DVD went from a slow adopting format in late 1998 to on-fire by late 2000.

I will :lol my ass off if their next console or upgrade is called "Super Wii".

What do you mean if HDTV's 'take off'? I go to an appliance store and all I see is HDTV's, you can't buy anything else on the main floor. Discounted SDCRT's are still around at supermarkets and all that sure, but HDTVs are the future simply because that's what the television makers are producing.

soundwave05 · (11-16-2006, 01:50 PM)

Originally Posted by Roat

What do you mean if HDTV's 'take off'? I go to an appliance store and all I see is HDTV's, you can't buy anything else on the main floor. Discounted SDCRT's are still around at supermarkets and all that sure, but HDTVs are the future simply because that's what the television makers are producing.

No disagreement from me on that one, but I think Nintendo is waiting on higher HDTV adoption in Europe and specifically Japan. Which sucks for us in North America. In theory even if Wii HD happens at some point ... would it be able to upconvert older Wii titles to 720p/1080i/1080p or whatever?

medrew · (11-16-2006, 01:54 PM)

Originally Posted by Roat

What do you mean if HDTV's 'take off'? I go to an appliance store and all I see is HDTV's, you can't buy anything else on the main floor. Discounted SDCRT's are still around at supermarkets and all that sure, but HDTVs are the future simply because that's what the television makers are producing.

well there's still that whole thing of people actually having to buy them. Your typical household doesn't buy a TV every couple of years. We could still be another 3-4 years until penetration is in the majority (and even then if it, say, reaches 60% it will still be that most households will only have one, as opposed to 2-3 SDTV's. And you have to ask if the tv the console is going to be hooked up to is the HDTV).

Shikamaru Ninja · (11-16-2006, 01:55 PM)

would it be able to upconvert older Wii titles to 720p/1080i/1080p or whatever?

It can upscale the image to 720p/1080i but most decent HDTVs already do it for you. Upscaling is just filling your screen though, it won't actually increase the pixels on the textures for that super high res look.

I really must say, i love me my 600p-1080p stuff!!!! Hard to go back once you get a a big HD.

Fallout-NL · (11-16-2006, 01:57 PM)

Originally Posted by drohne

"but once we built our $100 machine, we decided we'd rather sell it for $250."

:lol

Great stuff.

typhonsentra · (11-16-2006, 01:58 PM)

http://www.compushaq.com/product.php?productid=139215

Shikamaru Ninja · (11-16-2006, 01:59 PM)

Who cares if it's $250. Still the cheapest console. My gripe is the crap 480P. I would happily pay $350 for 720p Zelda.

Roat · (11-16-2006, 02:00 PM)

Originally Posted by medrew

well there's still that whole thing of people actually having to buy them. Your typical household doesn't buy a TV every couple of years. We could still be another 3-4 years until penetration is in the majority (and even then if it, say, reaches 60% it will still be that most households will only have one, as opposed to 2-3 SDTV's. And you have to ask if the tv the console is going to be hooked up to is the HDTV).

I know that the population isn't going to jump out and buy one, and there will still be a lot of SDTV's 15-20 years from now, but the days of an HDTV being that single $5000 plasma on display that nobody can afford are over.

But yeah, it's going to be limited even further by the myriad of connections to the television as well. I can't imagine how many families are going to buy PS3's in the next five years and use the composite cable because 'that's the one it came with'. Stuff like that is going to hold us back even further. Add to that the huge amount of 720-only HDTVs that have been sold in the last two years over 1080's (local stores still have the majority of their HDTV's as 720) and it's even further fragmented.

the androgyne · (11-16-2006, 02:00 PM)

Coming from the company that releases DS Lite (that unlocks brightness settings already in DS Phat), and will release a software DVD solution next year, i don't find it out of the realm of possibility that 720p is just locked until they need it (read: want to charge ppl again for it) in the current hardware. I dont know anything about hardware specs really, but one has to assume if Wii is more powerful than an Xbox which can run 720p, it could run 720p at least basically if they pushed hard enough.