• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

OG_Original Gamer
Member
(11-18-2006, 05:18 PM)
As I watched vids of this title, it started to lose its draw about a week ago. The direction and production seem very low. I think it could have been great, but the reactions to graphics early on have caused them lose site of whats of the greatest importants, and thats gameplay.

Its even more telling, when reading the IGN Madden 07 Wii review and it having a score of 8.8. The devs behind the title put focus behind the gameplay than graphics. They could have easily increased the quality of the character models, also reducing the framerate to 30fps. They chose to stay with 60 and add some nice graphical touches, but gameplay came first.
Diatribe
Member
(11-18-2006, 05:22 PM)

Originally Posted by Vieo

Is GameSpot a joke site?

...damage control :lol
Y2Kev
TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
(11-18-2006, 05:23 PM)
Y2Kev's Avatar

Originally Posted by Musashi Wins!

didn't edge give this game 5/10? it's too bad it will benefit as a launch title.

Yeah. I thought Edge might be even harsher.

Okay, so this is going to be a dump. I can enjoy the occasional dump. I've yet to play Dirge of Cerberus, though I've heard from RK that it's quality!
Amir0x
Banned
(11-18-2006, 05:25 PM)
Amir0x's Avatar

Originally Posted by Y2Kevbug11

I've yet to play Dirge of Cerberus, though I've heard from RK that it's quality!

:lol
Dizzy
Member
(11-18-2006, 05:38 PM)
Dizzy's Avatar
I'm not really a fan of Gamespot, but cryin that their biased just because they gave low scores to "teh super duper wii launch lineup!" seems a little sad to me. Perhaps Red Steel really does suck? the hype for this game has been going down the drain every day it seemed.

I don't think there is any bias going on at all.
JayDubya
Banned
(11-18-2006, 05:42 PM)
JayDubya's Avatar

Originally Posted by Y2Kevbug11

Yeah. I thought Edge might be even harsher.

Okay, so this is going to be a dump. I can enjoy the occasional dump. I've yet to play Dirge of Cerberus, though I've heard from RK that it's quality!

To be fair though, I'd bet Dirge of Cerberus probably is better than a lot of these crappy PS3 / Wii launch titles. As a Final Fantasy nut, I still very much want it, but all those bad reviews are making me hope it goes down in price eventually. Still waiting on KH2 to go down to $20 as well.
Willy Wanka
my god this avatar owns
(11-18-2006, 05:52 PM)
Willy Wanka's Avatar
I've not played it but Red Steel hasn't impressed me anytime it's been shown. I'm looking forward to playing a quality FPS with the Wiimote as there is clearly a ton of potential there to make something special and unique.
nicholasbrutal
Epic Games PR Manager
(11-18-2006, 06:13 PM)
nicholasbrutal's Avatar
Who is surprised? After watching people play it at E3 and even later builds, the game didn't look good or fun. Hands on impressions were poor and I mean...Zelda. You can't compete with Zelda at a launch, people.
Defcon
Banned
(11-18-2006, 06:19 PM)
Lower than I thought it would get, but I knew it wouldn't be all that great.
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
(11-18-2006, 06:41 PM)

Originally Posted by MMaRsu

Posting in a legendary thread :lol

don't make posts like this please

Originally Posted by Panic_Attack

GS is almost ALWAYS dead on with their reviews.

er, no.

and besides, their attitude towards the wii has been terrible, and their review of Zelda goes against the reviews coming from every other internet and magazine publication (which provides some form of explanation for the fanboy meltdown directed towards Jeff). their wii reviews are going to be open to suspicion as a result.

however, red steel clearly isn't a good game as pretty much every source has been saying the same thing about the game. ubisoft ****ed up. they tried to produce a shit load of games for wii launch, but it was essentially a load of shit ports with wiimote functions poorly tacked on, and red steel has failed to deliver its concept or to even get the basics of wiimote aiming. CoD3 did a better job with less resources and less effort - it says something about the poor quality of development in areas of ubisoft.

very disappointing
Last edited by MrSardonic; 11-18-2006 at 06:54 PM.
AtomicShroom
Member
(11-18-2006, 06:48 PM)
Superior version:

Ark-AMN
Banned
(11-18-2006, 06:50 PM)

Originally Posted by AtomicShroom

Superior version:

:lol :lol :lol


Also, Twilight Rockstar has yet to go in depth on what he felt was wrong with the review as well as his own impressions.
Mejilan
Running off of Custom Firmware
(11-18-2006, 06:54 PM)
Mejilan's Avatar
I had a feeling buying Red Steel was going to be a mistake, but that's why I got Call of Duty 3 as well. RS has looked like a garbage game for a long time, and it's controls were always borked compared to CoD3 and Metroid Prime 3. Oh well, if it's truly piss, I guess I can always sell it. I really didn't need 2 FPSes at launch anyway.
Ark-AMN
Banned
(11-18-2006, 06:59 PM)
I guess the final nail in the coffin pre-reviews was UbiSoft holding reviews of the game under embargo until the very last minute before release. That's pretty much the same sort of tactic that Hollywood studios use with the really crappy movies.

To think Ubi couldn't do right after spending 12 million.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
(11-18-2006, 07:00 PM)
John Harker's Avatar
Call me a sucker, but I just bought it.

It'll give me something mindless and violent to do in between FF12 and Zelda.
maxmars
Member
(11-18-2006, 07:07 PM)
maxmars's Avatar

Originally Posted by OG_Original Gamer

Its even more telling, when reading the IGN Madden 07 Wii review and it having a score of 8.8. The devs behind the title put focus behind the gameplay than graphics. They could have easily increased the quality of the character models, also reducing the framerate to 30fps. They chose to stay with 60 and add some nice graphical touches, but gameplay came first.

Agreed. From what I hear, Madden 07 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance (Vicarious Visions?) are two great Wii multiplatform titles. Both companies have gone for better gameplay over superior graphics and that's the way it should be with the Wii.
Krowley
Member
(11-18-2006, 07:09 PM)
Krowley's Avatar
Just realized something pretty strange...

it's very surprising that of all the games that are being released for wii, zelda seems to be making the best use of the wii controller. Nearly every other game has been heavily nitpicked at for little flaws in the implimentation of the wiimote... even games like madden that seem to be using it pretty well are getting some flack for certain aspects... And red steel which seems like a perfect fit for the wii is apparently barley functional... but zelda, which was originaly a gamecube game, has been praised by nearly everybody for the way it controls on the wii. I don't know what that really means in the larger scheme of things except that EAD is extremley capable, which is no real surprise.

But you would have figured that somebody working on a wii only game would have delivered something ideal and new that is well implimented with no serious flaws. Even nintendo failed to get it right with half the mini games in wii sports.

I think wario ware will probably be the very best implimentation, but unfortunatley we don't get it as a launch title in the states.
SPEA
Member
(11-18-2006, 07:17 PM)
SPEA's Avatar
i dont think anyone should be to suprised. in my opnion, this game never looked like it was going to be an above average game. i like gamespot's reviews, and i think he backs up his score quite well.
Warm Machine
Member
(11-18-2006, 07:20 PM)
Warm Machine's Avatar

Originally Posted by Ark-AMN

I guess the final nail in the coffin pre-reviews was UbiSoft holding reviews of the game under embargo until the very last minute before release. That's pretty much the same sort of tactic that Hollywood studios use with the really crappy movies.

To think Ubi couldn't do right after spending 12 million.

Didn't Gears reviews come out only a day before release?

Why all the complaining about the review anyway? Didn't we have a hilariously titled thread here "Red Steel, we tried it it isn't good." So where is the surprise?
Mejilan
Running off of Custom Firmware
(11-18-2006, 07:27 PM)
Mejilan's Avatar

Originally Posted by Krowley

Just realized something pretty strange...

it's very surprising that of all the games that are being released for wii, zelda seems to be making the best use of the wii controller. Nearly every other game has been heavily nitpicked at for little flaws in the implimentation of the wiimote... even games like madden that seem to be using it pretty well are getting some flack for certain aspects... And red steel which seems like a perfect fit for the wii is apparently barley functional... but zelda, which was originaly a gamecube game, has been praised by nearly everybody for the way it controls on the wii. I don't know what that really means in the larger scheme of things except that EAD is extremley capable, which is no real surprise.

But you would have figured that somebody working on a wii only game would have delivered something ideal and new that is well implimented with no serious flaws. Even nintendo failed to get it right with half the mini games in wii sports.

I think wario ware will probably be the very best implimentation, but unfortunatley we don't get it as a launch title in the states.

Nothing strange about it. The crux of Nintendo's first party game design has ALWAYS been control. They excel at it. I'm still shocked that people really has serious doubts about the Wii version of Zelda. Controls were pretty much the one thing they WERE going to get right, if nothing else.

As to other companies playing catch up. I suppose it was expected. It took the DS quite some time to really take off in that sense, and I expect a similar learning curve with the Wii.
Durante
Come on down to Durante's drivethru PC port fixes. 15 minutes or less. Yelp: ★★★★★

Fixed Souls, Deadly Premonition, Lightning Returns, Umihara Kawase, Symphonia, Little King's Story, PhD, likes mimosas.
(11-18-2006, 07:31 PM)
Durante's Avatar
I'll probably be grilled for this, but I'd say it's because Zelda doesn't actually use the motion sensing alll that much:
- waggle in some way to swing the sword /or/
- use the wiimote to point for shooting.

From what I gathered, that's it. There's not too much that can go wrong here, is there?
Setanta
Member
(11-18-2006, 07:34 PM)
I don't know if this has been picked up on in GAF, but i'll post this link anyway.

It is from Gamefaqs, before i'm shot down it is highly relevant, as the guy who started the topic is a staff member from the Official Nintendo Magazine in the UK and Ireland. Plus he's a colleague to GAF poster Twilight Rockstar. He shoots down the Gamespot review and questions their stupid score for the game.
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gen...topic=31841555
Xellos
Member
(11-18-2006, 07:34 PM)
I wasn't expecting great things from Red Steel, but I wasn't expecting garbage either. Good thing I didn't unwrap it yet. If IGN trashes it too (which is likely, considering Bozon rated CoD3 a 7.7 and also implied that it Wii's best FPS), then it's going back.
Last edited by Xellos; 11-18-2006 at 07:55 PM.
Ark-AMN
Banned
(11-18-2006, 07:43 PM)

Originally Posted by Setanta

I don't know if this has been picked up on in GAF, but i'll post this link anyway.

It is from Gamefaqs, before i'm shot down it is highly relevant, as the guy who started the topic is a staff member from the Official Nintendo Magazine in the UK and Ireland. Plus he's a colleague to GAF poster Twilight Rockstar. He shoots down the Gamespot review and questions their stupid score for the game.
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gen...topic=31841555

Hmm, I'll post the thingy:

Hi folks.

Just decided to throw my two cents in here, because GameSpot's review of Red Steel confused me so much that I had to register and give my thoughts.

I'm a UK-based games journalist for a high-selling magazine, and played the finished version of Red Steel about a month ago for a lengthy period, for the purposes of reviewing it. During this review period I completed the game in its entirety.

I could find none of the "bugs" and "glitches" that the GameSpot reviewer decided warranted such an embarassingly low score for what I believe is actually a fantastic and immersive game. Any "bugs" and "glitches" given were things that have been seen in hundreds of other FPS games in the past, yet they didn't seem to get marked down for them.

It would appear that this review seems to focus more on what the game can't do rather than what it can do. The sword-fighting sections are poor because you can't pull out a gun, the sections with non-playable characters are poor because you can't shoot them in the back. These arguments are foolish in my opinion.

The whole point of Red Steel's swordfighting is that of honour. Pulling out a gun simply shouldn't happen because 1) that is not an honourable way to defeat an opponent in a swordfight, and 2) it would make the game far too easy. It's a bit silly to complain that it's poor because it's not like Raiders Of The Lost Ark. By that reasoning, Metal Gear Solid is a bad game because you can't pull out a pipe and stick it through your enemy like in Commando. Hey, there are pipes in some of the levels, why can't you? Lazy developing, of course! :roll:

The problem with Red Steel just now is that there aren't a lot of reviews floating about (though that will change in a few days). NGamer (a fellow UK magazine) gave it 90%, and I believe another site gave it somewhere in the region of 8 or 9 out of 10? (correct me if I'm wrong folks)

I can't tell you what score I've given the game since the magazine with my review in it is not due to hit the stores until next week and there are all sorts of embargoes and such, but if you wish I'll be happy to come back when the magazine's out and discuss my reasoning behind the score. Rest assured it fits more into the higher range of the scoring system however.

Yes, Red Steel has flaws, but they're the same flaws you've seen in nearly every game and certainly not exclusive to this title. Shooting down a game for having bad voice acting would mean you'd have to shoot down 90% of the games released in the last 10 years, because let's face it - voice acting in games is for the most part pretty abysmal.

Complaining that there are no co-op modes and that the multiplayer is pretty standard isn't really valid. Can you say GoldenEye? The fact is, I had a blast playing the multiplayer, and while the alternative mode (where you have to listen to your mission on the Remote) didn't really work too well in my opinion, straight deathmatches are great fun. At least it has multiplayer, unlike Call Of Duty 3.

My honest opinion, folks, is that Red Steel is a fantastic game. Maybe when you've finished it you won't come back to it too often because it's a bit linear and you do simply progress from one level to the next, but it's a fantastic experience while it lasts, and if you have enough buddies to play along with you, the deathmatches will have you loading it up time and time again. Giving it a score in line with Rampage: Total Destruction (a complete shambles of a game) is an insult in my opinion.

My worry is that GameSpot are not focusing on the key factor of Wii gaming - fun - and are trying too hard to compare it to the 360 and PS3, which Nintendo have stated in the past that they were never really trying to do. Accusing Red Steel of having "bland textures" is simply not true. Yes, compared to a 360 game running at 720p or a PS3 game running at 1080p it's no competition, but for sheer fun I'd rather play Red Steel than Resistance, because it just feels right. The fact is, people are comparing the Wii's graphics to the GameCube's, but I can assure you that Red Steel would not have been possible on a GameCube.

In my opinion, Red Steel is a great launch title for the Wii. Yes, it will eventually look dated compared to the likes of Metroid Prime 3 and any other first-person shooters, but doesn't Call Of Duty 2 on the 360 look dated now compared to Gears Of War? These things happen, and in time it'll look a bit poor, but for now it's a great launch title and an excellent way of showing new Wii gamers how versatile the Wii Remote and Nunchuk are. Highly recommended.

For the record, I'm not a Nintendo "fanboy" in any way, the concept of fanboyism is pathetic in my opinion. I've been gaming since the days of the NES and have owned every major console with the exception of Saturn (those were my poor days!). I have a 360 and plan to get a PS3 if Sony ever decide to pull their fingers our their asses and bring it to the UK. I spend all my time at the moment alternating between Zelda: Twilight Princess, Elite Beat Agents, Guitar Hero, Pro Evolution Soccer 6 and Gears Of War, so I'm as far from a fanboy as you'd like. I'm a gamer, nothing else, and I'd like to think I know a good game when I see one.

If anyone has any questions about Red Steel from the perspective of someone who's actually played it all the way through, feel free folks.

Incidentally, to any GameSpot chaps that read this - 8.8 for Zelda, guys? Come on.

psy18
Member
(11-18-2006, 07:51 PM)
psy18's Avatar

Originally Posted by Ark-AMN

Hmm, I'll post the thingy:

dunno but some of that sounds a bit fanboy-ish or defensive.
Need more reviews.

edit : oh gamefaqs:lol
Last edited by psy18; 11-18-2006 at 08:02 PM.
GitarooMan
Member
(11-18-2006, 08:01 PM)
GitarooMan's Avatar

Originally Posted by psy18

dunno but some of that sounds a bit fanboy-ish or defensive.
Need more reviews.

Some of it, how about all of it? He's the only person I've seen whose played Red Steel and called it "fantastic".
Red Blaster
downloading Angry Birds
(11-18-2006, 08:05 PM)
Red Blaster's Avatar

Complaining that there are no co-op modes and that the multiplayer is pretty standard isn't really valid. Can you say GoldenEye?

what
MattKeil
BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
(11-18-2006, 08:06 PM)
MattKeil's Avatar
While the Zelda score is a bit silly, I can't disagree with much of the Red Steel review. The rebuttal from GameFAQs reads as far more biased than anything in the review. Without the Wii controller, nobody would give it a second look, and the control scheme doesn't work tremendously well. The Gamespot score is a bit low, IMO, but the fact remains that the unique controls both save the game from obscurity and hold it back from greatness.
Varjet
Member
(11-18-2006, 08:06 PM)
Varjet's Avatar
Someone get Twilight Rockstar in here.
Core407
Banned
(11-18-2006, 08:08 PM)

Originally Posted by Ark-AMN

Hmm, I'll post the thingy:

That's pretty much how I see it. Reviewers need to emphasize the gameplay score more into the end score.

Maybe Wii should even get its own review system.
Ark-AMN
Banned
(11-18-2006, 08:09 PM)

Originally Posted by Target

Someone get Twilight Rockstar in here.

He was here, but then he left and never elaborated on his brief statement (called the Gamespot review "utter nonsense").

Still hoping he comes back.
Setanta
Member
(11-18-2006, 08:16 PM)
As TR works for the same magazine, he 'could' perhaps, be the same person.
But my gut feeling is that TR is no one other than Mr.Chandra Nair, who at the moment is putting finishing touches to the Zelda Review for the next Official Nintendo Magazine issue.
Y2Kev
TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
(11-18-2006, 08:19 PM)
Y2Kev's Avatar
Jesus Christ, don't defend red steel. It's rearranging the chairs on the titanic. /colbert
SolidSnakex
Member
(11-18-2006, 08:20 PM)
SolidSnakex's Avatar

Originally Posted by Red Blaster

what

Perhaps he forgot that as far as console FPS went at the time, there really wasn't anything worth mentioning next to Goldeneye's multiplayer modes. That didn't change for awhile.
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
(11-18-2006, 08:21 PM)
omg! someone who hasn't said Red Steel is a steaming pile of fly-shit! fanboi, kill him!
op_ivy
Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
(11-18-2006, 08:24 PM)
op_ivy's Avatar

Originally Posted by Core407


Maybe Wii should even get its own review system.

i propose the scale is from 9 to 10. happy?
RumpledForeskin
Banned
(11-18-2006, 08:25 PM)
Before I clicked the topic it was at one page, and when I scrolled down to the bottm it was 5 pages already.



Also: :lol
The Main Event
Member
(11-18-2006, 08:25 PM)
The Main Event's Avatar
Chris Kohler should comment on that review.
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
(11-18-2006, 08:27 PM)

Originally Posted by Cauliflower of Love

I swear to go

who is go?
ferrarimanf355
Banned
(11-18-2006, 08:38 PM)
Speaking of Zelda...
psy18
Member
(11-18-2006, 08:53 PM)
psy18's Avatar

Originally Posted by ferrarimanf355

Speaking of Zelda...

I never expect a score as high as 8.8 to cause such controversy:lol
It's EIGHT POINT EIGHT people! WTF it's better than most of my grades!
Hydro_Alexis
Banned
(11-18-2006, 08:56 PM)
Hmmm the anihawk virus seems to be declining how long until these bitachs stop whining
JonathanEx
Member
(11-18-2006, 08:58 PM)
JonathanEx's Avatar

Originally Posted by Setanta

As TR works for the same magazine, he 'could' perhaps, be the same person.
But my gut feeling is that TR is no one other than Mr.Chandra Nair, who at the moment is putting finishing touches to the Zelda Review for the next Official Nintendo Magazine issue.

Twilight Rockstar = Chandra aka "Nice hair" (Associate Editor)
Scully1888 = Staff Writer Chris Scullion
JayDubya
Banned
(11-18-2006, 08:59 PM)
JayDubya's Avatar

Originally Posted by psy18

I never expect a score as high as 8.8 to cause such controversy:lol
It's EIGHT POINT EIGHT people! WTF it's better than most of my grades!

Like furious soccer moms, we have no choice but to protest: our Shiggy is NOT a "B"-student.
vantastic
Member
(11-18-2006, 09:01 PM)
anyone really surpised? this game doesn't look that great and doesn't play great.
Parch
Member
(11-18-2006, 09:03 PM)
Parch's Avatar

Originally Posted by Mr. Pointy

I think Red Steel will end up being a 'love it or hate it' kind of game.

Raving Nbots who get a chubby over the Wiimote....Love it.
Everybody else in the world....Hate it.
Sinatar
Official GAF Bottom Feeder
(11-18-2006, 09:25 PM)
Sinatar's Avatar
Wow Nintendo fanatics are so bereft of sense that they are pulling posts from GameFAQ's to defend this turd?

Give me a freaking break.
JonathanEx
Member
(11-18-2006, 09:31 PM)
JonathanEx's Avatar

Originally Posted by Schafer

Wow Nintendo fanatics are so bereft of sense that they are pulling posts from GameFAQ's to defend this turd?

Give me a freaking break.

They're pulling posts out from someone who writes for a magazine with a circulation of over 30,000 in the UK! Man, give him a break! He writes for ONM....

...

I think regular GAFfers know what to say here.
Dunpeal
Banned
(11-18-2006, 09:33 PM)
Why defend red steel?

I don't get it. The game has had poor impressions since....ever. It was never going to be a good game.
Kittonwy
Banned
(11-18-2006, 10:09 PM)
My question is ultimately how well is the wii-mote suited for first-person shooters, or even third-person shooters for that matter? Is Red Steel an exception?

Thread Tools