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GavinUK86
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(01-12-2017, 02:46 AM)
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Okay, folks have some questions about the Exalted March cancelled expansion for DAII.

So, first off? Why did we cancel it? Easy to assume it was “the reaction” to DAII, but not so! It was the move to Frostbite. We had an opportunity to do so at the same time, but knew as it would be the first time that engine did “RPG stuff” we knew it would be hard, as most everything in making games, it certainly was challenging. Great engine, but took tons of time. Had we tried to do both EM and the Frostbite transition, both would have suffered a lot, especially from lack of engineering folks. So Mark Darrah made the call to stop development on EM and go all in on what would become DAI.

I’m trying to remember which of the two was jokingly code named “Project Nugstorm.” Mark has a rule that code names should be ridiculous enough that you don’t get attached to them and call the final product that codename. In this goal, we were VERY successful. Various orgs around EA wrote concerned letters asking what the hell it was.

So anyway! Exalted March didn’t make it too far past concept. The idea, however, was that it followed the red lyrium chicanery of DAII with The Chantry becoming VERY UPSET while various aspects of the qunari started to make moves on the turbulent Free Marches. And this it fell to Hawke to stop things from going to hell (again) while working with Starkhaven and the pirates of the Armada.

I recall fondly that for the big first panel we did at PAX west (prime back then) we all had shirts with missing letters. You know… like hangman. Because the story would start at…yeah, the Hanged Man. I still have mine. The missing letters spell out Estwatch, which is where the Felicisima Armada missions were based. The Internet, as it does, had guessed all of the locations within minutes of the panel starting. You guys rule. Beyond that, there were some really interesting stories to tell, and a chance to learn more about Sebastian’s family. But as it stood, I think shutting it down was the right call to focus on the engine change.

One last anecdote: our marketing liaison at the time was -certain- our PAX panel would get no people. 9:00 at night, basement room (though big! Held 900). But you folks proved him wrong. We had to turn hundred away. And let me tell you. After parts of DAII’s “feedback cycle” that meant a LOT to me. And then we all sang Mark happy birthday. So good. I’m pretty sure that experience was why Mark and I were so committed to a big gameplay demo for DAI at PAX. A way to say thank you.

And that’s my story! Thanks for reading along.

/endMarch

All from his Twitter account.
Last edited by GavinUK86; 01-12-2017 at 02:50 AM.
Maxey
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(01-12-2017, 02:54 AM)
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I read his name as Marc Laidlaw and got really confused for a hot second.
GavinUK86
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(01-12-2017, 03:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Maxey

I read his name as Marc Laidlaw and got really confused for a hot second.

HL3 confirmed lol
spindoctor
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(01-12-2017, 03:55 AM)
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"The reaction"

"Feedback cycle"

Bioware probably still thinks Dragon Age 2 was a great game.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(01-12-2017, 04:01 AM)
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Project Nugstorm is an amazing name and I would instantly buy anything with that title.
carlsojo
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(01-12-2017, 04:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by spindoctor

"The reaction"

"Feedback cycle"

Bioware probably still thinks Dragon Age 2 was a great game.

It was the best Dragon Age game.
Bansai
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(01-12-2017, 04:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by carlsojo

It was the best Dragon Age game.

Maybe with Origins and Inquisition out of the picture.

But not to sound overly positive about Inquisition, even though I think it was better than 2, Origins shits on both of them from up high.
Renekton
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(01-12-2017, 04:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by spindoctor

"The reaction"

"Feedback cycle"

Bioware probably still thinks Dragon Age 2 was a great game.

Despite the later backlash, lots of people still wanted further story DLCs into DA2.
carlsojo
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(01-12-2017, 04:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bansai

Maybe with Origins and Inquisition out of the picture.

But not to sound overly positive about Inquisition, even though I think it was better than 2, Origins shits on both of them from up high.

2 had the best gameplay and pacing imo. It was focused and it had a good story.
Sanctuary
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(01-12-2017, 04:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by carlsojo

It was the best Dragon Age game.

Not really, but it did have its moments for sure. It just would have been a lot better with much less recycled areas, and especially the "ANOTHER WAVE!" garbage that completely tossed tactical positioning out of the window.

Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

Much better characters than Inquisition, too

Yep.
Last edited by Sanctuary; 01-12-2017 at 04:19 AM.
Garrett Hawke
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(01-12-2017, 04:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by spindoctor

"The reaction"

"Feedback cycle"

Bioware probably still thinks Dragon Age 2 was a great game.

It was a great game

It wasn't what people wanted and it has obvious flaws but it's still a great game

Much better characters than Inquisition, too
danm999
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(01-12-2017, 04:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by carlsojo

It was the best Dragon Age game.

Origins and Awakening were far superior. Can see an argument it was on par/better than Inquisition I suppose.
MikeDown
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(01-12-2017, 04:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by spindoctor

"The reaction"

"Feedback cycle"

Bioware probably still thinks Dragon Age 2 was a great game.

Far superior to Origins and Inquisition
BRocknRolla
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(01-12-2017, 04:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by carlsojo

It was the best Dragon Age game.

And this is why DA is a dead series.

Edit: Ugh. Opinions and all, but honestly for people who think Origins is a bad game, and DA2 is a good game, I really wish you had just gotten your own series rather than wiping out everything good about the original.
nynt9
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(01-12-2017, 04:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by carlsojo

2 had the best gameplay and pacing imo. It was focused and it had a good story.



I'm not sure if the timeline of this makes sense. The earliest game using the version of frostbite that DAI used was BF4 in 2013, which was 2 years after DA2. DAI itself came out in 2014. DA2 came out in 2011. They really didn't have time to work on DLC? They announced the cancellation of this DLC on March 2012 and they were releasing DLCs up until October 2011. If the game was successful, they would have gone forward with this DLC.
Last edited by nynt9; 01-12-2017 at 04:35 AM.
Garrett Hawke
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(01-12-2017, 04:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by BRocknRolla

And this is why DA is a dead series.

Edit: Ugh. Opinions and all, but honestly for people who think Origins is a bad game, and DA2 is a good game, I really wish you had just gotten your own series rather than wiping out everything good about the original.

You can love both (I do)

I'm still hoping the next one will be closer to Origins though. Would love to see a game a little bit bigger than Origins - so larger but still as dense - but with all the modern visual trimmings.
inky
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(01-12-2017, 04:34 AM)
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The term "great game" has no meaning anymore if suddenly DA2 qualifies. It was a great effort from an under pressure team shat out in a record time, but it was closer to 'crap' than it was to 'great', and it was nowhere close in quality to DA:O at all, which is actually a real "great game".
MisterShine
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(01-12-2017, 04:38 AM)
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Guys I like DA 2 a lot more than the average Game-Internet-Forum denizen, but calling it the best Dragon Age is fuckin' ludicrous.

On-topic: I always really enjoy behind the scenes stuff like this, especially since we kind of knew about EM before it got canned. Just enough to get us guessing and excited, only to be whisked away.
Garrett Hawke
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(01-12-2017, 04:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by inky

The term "great game" has no meaning anymore if suddenly DA2 qualifies. It was a great effort from an under pressure team shat out in a record time, but it was closer to 'crap' than it was to 'great', and it was nowhere close in quality to DA:O at all, which is actually a real "great game".

They're very different games. It is obvious that DA2 was rushed (ctrl c ctrl v) yet it still had an incredibly compelling story and characters, something that the next game in the franchise kind of failed to do. DA2 has sooo many compelling little side stories, wonderful voice acting, and really good world building of Kirkwall despite the repeated environments the moment you step foot outside of the city.

It got the reviews it did for a reason. They should never have titled it DA2 though, it should've been a spin off.
Vamphuntr
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(01-12-2017, 04:39 AM)
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Mike Laidlaw seems like a really cool guy. Good on them for trying to support the game even if the feeback wasn't encouraging. Pretty happy to not have to endure more Sebastian to be honest.

Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

It was a great game

It wasn't what people wanted and it has obvious flaws but it's still a great game

Much better characters than Inquisition, too

Calling it great is really generous. It uses like the 4-5 same areas again and again for all quests while poorly pretending they are different and new by blocking some paths. Enemies come in wave from the ceiling and walls so strategy is pretty much non existent. Every party member outside of Aveline is awful, insane, stupid or a combination of the three. The dumb elf that lives in the wrecked mansion for 10 years and followed me even though he kept reminding he hated mages while I was a mage was the worst. Honorable mention for the other elf that keeps repairing the evil mirror while everyone and their mother tell her not to and the religious guy that keeps sermonizing everyone about violence while he asks you to murder people to join your team. Anders was also a huge step down from Awakening in this.You can also sex everyone even if they hate you because the Bioware Social Forum found it wasn't fair to not have romance when you are mean to people.

There's only one city in the game, it's small and it barely changes over 10 years. You learn specialization by simply dumping points into one without having party member teach it to you or finding the book. No interactivity from party member from the classes you choose (no one cares if you are a blood mage in this). The deep road is basically a long hallway with a boss. And I could keep going on.

Coming from Origins/Awakening to this was a huge shock to me.
Garrett Hawke
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(01-12-2017, 04:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by Vamphuntr

Calling it great is really generous. It uses like the 4-5 same areas again and again for all quests while poorly pretending they are different and new by blocking some paths. Enemies come in wave from the ceiling and walls so strategy is pretty much non existent. Every party member outside of Aveline is awful, insane, stupid or a combination of the three. The dumb elf that lives in the wrecked mansion for 10 years and followed me even though he kept reminding he hated mages while I was a mage was the worst. Honorable mention for the other elf that keeps repairing the evil mirror while everyone and their mother tell her not to and the religious guy that keeps sermonizing everyone about violence while he asks you to murder people to join your team. Anders was also a huge step down from Awakening in this.You can also sex everyone even if they hate you because the Bioware Social Forum found it wasn't fair to not have romance when you are mean to people.

There's only one city in the game, it's small and it barely changes over 10 years. You learn specialization by simply dumping points into one without having party member teach it to you or finding the book. No interactivity from party member from the classes you choose (no one cares if you are a blood mage in this). The deep road is basically a long hallway with a boss. And I could keep going on.

Coming from Origins/Awakening to this was a huge shock to me.

I disagree with your assessment of the characters although the way you wrote it did give me a smile.

The gameplay changes are why it shouldn't have been called Dragon Age 2. If it had been something else and they'd positioned it as an action spin off I don't think people would've been as taken aback as they were when it launched.

As for the repeated content, it is annoying but they didn't really have an option. I don't think it hinders the experience too much personally but it was disappointing coming from the amazing and beautiful variety of environments in the first game.
FrontalMonk
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(01-12-2017, 04:47 AM)
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People are really seeing a different story than I am at the end there, huh? He flat out says "After parts of DAII’s “feedback cycle” that meant a LOT to me." That sounds to me like "damn, our game fell really flat, people fucking hated this game that we rushed like shit to get out the door, to see that people actually still liked the game that we poured ourselves into makes me feel better about my life choices". But hey, maybe I'm reading too far into it.
Sayers
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(01-12-2017, 04:49 AM)
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I'm one of the crazy people that loves DA2 (while being fully aware of its many faults). Marian Hawke is my favorite Dragon Age player character so I would have loved to play as her some more. Sounds like they were in tough position though and they probably made the right call.
Hasphat'sAnts
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(01-12-2017, 04:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by BRocknRolla

And this is why DA is a dead series.

Edit: Ugh. Opinions and all, but honestly for people who think Origins is a bad game, and DA2 is a good game, I really wish you had just gotten your own series rather than wiping out everything good about the original.

No. We got the Dragon Age we wanted, and you got Divinity. Everybody wins.
Coriolanus
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(01-12-2017, 04:56 AM)
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Even if you only focus on the mechanics of the game, DA2 was a failure. The waves of enemies were completely at odds with any sort of strategy beyond "blow them up asap", wot with them spawning on top of you, making positioning largely irrelevant. Whatever choices you may make during the course of the story are also rendered irrelevant due to the way the final stretch was written/shat, wot with BOTH SIDEESSSS. Particularly annoying, given the landsmeet in the first game.

Given that tactical combat and choices were the things that DA:O did quite well (tespecially for a brand new ip) the sequel, necessarily, is not a great game.

(also DA2 had not one character as interesting as loghain)

cool qunari design change tho.

Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

The gameplay changes are why it shouldn't have been called Dragon Age 2. If it had been something else and they'd positioned it as an action spin off I don't think people would've been as taken aback as they were when it launched.

this is fair. Had it been called something like, say, Dragon Age: Brotherhood of Steel people wouldve adjusted their expectations somewhat.
Last edited by Coriolanus; 01-12-2017 at 04:59 AM.
DocSeuss
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(01-12-2017, 04:56 AM)
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this "dragon age 2 was good" revision is killing me

the game sold so poorly that retailers literally refused to stock GOTY editions. Dragon Age: Origins was Bioware's best selling game until Mass Effect 3 iirc.

By no metric was Dragon Age 2 good. Bad story. Bad characters. Bad wave-based gameplay. Poorly designed classes and combat. There was literally nothing good about the game but the concept, which was abysmally executed.

Also, on maxed out graphics, it still looks like this:

CrichtonKicks
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(01-12-2017, 04:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Renekton

Despite the later backlash, lots of people still wanted further story DLCs into DA2.

Both DLCs for DA2 were legitimately good. Especially Legacy.

Bioware consistently puts out some damn good DLC.
Garrett Hawke
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(01-12-2017, 05:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by nynt9



I'm not sure if the timeline of this makes sense. The earliest game using the version of frostbite that DAI used was BF4 in 2013, which was 2 years after DA2. DAI itself came out in 2014. DA2 came out in 2011. They really didn't have time to work on DLC? They announced the cancellation of this DLC on March 2012 and they were releasing DLCs up until October 2011. If the game was successful, they would have gone forward with this DLC.

They announced via twitter that it was using frostbite 3 in march 2013. It's not unreasonable to think they had been working on the game for one year at that point.

Edit: actually, as is pointed out in that article, Dragon Age 3 (as it was known at the time) was referenced as using frostbite in November 2012.

Originally Posted by DocSeuss

this "dragon age 2 was good" revision is killing me

the game sold so poorly that retailers literally refused to stock GOTY editions. Dragon Age: Origins was Bioware's best selling game until Mass Effect 3 iirc.

By no metric was Dragon Age 2 good. Bad story. Bad characters. Bad wave-based gameplay. Poorly designed classes and combat. There was literally nothing good about the game but the concept, which was abysmally executed.

Also, on maxed out graphics, it still looks like this:

So... the critics just all got really high, got paid off by ea, or had weird fever dreams and wrote their reviews based off that?
Last edited by Garrett Hawke; 01-12-2017 at 05:04 AM.
Renekton
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(01-12-2017, 05:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by DocSeuss

the game sold so poorly that retailers literally refused to stock GOTY editions. Dragon Age: Origins was Bioware's best selling game until Mass Effect 3 iirc.

Hey where can I read about this?
DocSeuss
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(01-12-2017, 05:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

So... the critics just all got really high, got paid off by ea, or had weird fever dreams and wrote their reviews based off that?

I have no idea why the critics said what they did. Critics also hated godhand.

Y'know what I do know? Dragon Age Inquisition got a ton of amazing reviews, and the overall fan (and media!) response to the game after its great reviews have been... astonishingly tepid.

Originally Posted by Renekton

Hey where can I read about this?

I have no idea; it's been, what, seven years since I had those conversations? Sorry.
DeadlyParasite
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(01-12-2017, 05:06 AM)
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A shame. Game still has my favourite characters and moments in the series. Has a meaty story adventure unlike Inquisition and doesn't have any of the horrifically drawn out sections like the Fade and Deep Roads in Origins.

The DLC starring Felicia Day was kind of weird though.
PeskyToaster
(01-12-2017, 05:06 AM)
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I like all the Dragon Age games. I think the world they built is super compelling. Probably one of the best original "worlds" in gaming
Garrett Hawke
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(01-12-2017, 05:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by DocSeuss

I have no idea why the critics said what they did.

Y'know what I do know? Dragon Age Inquisition got a ton of amazing reviews, and the overall fan (and media!) response to the game after its great reviews have been... astonishingly tepid.

Maybe people just liked it at the time?
Roboculus
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(01-12-2017, 05:07 AM)
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I thought the whole watching the characters and city change over time idea was neat in Dragon Age 2. Sure, the execution could have been better but it's still an idea I wish more games would try.
DocSeuss
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(01-12-2017, 05:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

Maybe people just liked it at the time?

People were railing against PC Gamer's review at the time, so no, people didn't just like it at the time. I loathed it.

And let's not forget the GAF OT.
Garrett Hawke
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(01-12-2017, 05:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by DocSeuss

People were railing against PC Gamer's review at the time, so no, people didn't just like it at the time. I loathed it.

And let's not forget the GAF OT.

So enthusiast forum that was very attached to the first game which was a more traditional pc rpg hated the sequel which went in a very different (more streamlined) direction

Like... yeah, as has already been discussed in this thread, it is very different to origins and falls short in many ways compared to it. But something not being what you want does not make it bad.

I don't care for Doom but I don't think it's bad.
Knuckle Sandwich
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(01-12-2017, 05:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

It was a great game

It wasn't what people wanted and it has obvious flaws but it's still a great game

Much better characters than Inquisition, too

Definitely had better characters than DA:I. Even the anime elf was awesome.

"Great game" is way too generous especially with how repetitive the combat/locations got. The story had some good bits but there are some just flat out awful writing too. Don't even get me started on that stupid ending.
hateradio
The Most Dangerous Yes Man
(01-12-2017, 05:24 AM)
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Sure, definitely not because of sales.

I actually haven't even touched the DAI DLC. :/
IgotElbows
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(01-12-2017, 05:25 AM)
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DA2 was one of the worst demos I have ever played. I played it after hearing so much from from DA1.
Ploid 3.0
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(01-12-2017, 05:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by spindoctor

"The reaction"

"Feedback cycle"

Bioware probably still thinks Dragon Age 2 was a great game.

I sure liked it, even after knowing that a lot of people hated it. The thing I didn't like were the graphics (thought they looked worse than DA Origins, so many sharp angles), the recycled maps, gear for the rest of the party, and how you could only create Hawk, Mass Effect style. The gameplay was plenty tactical for me, especially with increased difficulty mods. I loved it's tactical menu settings, combo programming, and number of slots. It was great. Then there's the story, loved it, the blood magic part with Hawks mother really crept me out, more than any game I've played. So sad and messed up.

Originally Posted by hateradio

Sure, definitely not because of sales.

I actually haven't even touched the DAI DLC. :/

I finally got around to tackling Deep Roads DLC and it is now my favorite Deep Roads in Dragon Age. So much content, and loot. I like the Deep Roads in the games because they have so much to fight, I wish there were mods to repopulate this zone. Some things respawn but not nearly enough to be threatening.
Last edited by Ploid 3.0; 01-12-2017 at 05:29 AM.
Brandon F
Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
(01-12-2017, 05:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by DocSeuss

this "dragon age 2 was good" revision is killing me

the game sold so poorly that retailers literally refused to stock GOTY editions. Dragon Age: Origins was Bioware's best selling game until Mass Effect 3 iirc.

By no metric was Dragon Age 2 good. Bad story. Bad characters. Bad wave-based gameplay. Poorly designed classes and combat. There was literally nothing good about the game but the concept, which was abysmally executed.

Also, on maxed out graphics, it still looks like this:

Not how it looks on ultra on my rig! Did you not download the free high-res texture pack dlc?
Arulan
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(01-12-2017, 05:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

So enthusiast forum that was very attached to the first game which was a more traditional pc rpg hated the sequel which went in a very different (more streamlined) direction

Like... yeah, as has already been discussed in this thread, it is very different to origins and falls short in many ways compared to it. But something not being what you want does not make it bad.

I don't care for Doom but I don't think it's bad.

There is a difference between subjective feelings towards a game, and critical analysis of it. And no, critical analysis doesn't necessarily mean professional critics.

Vault Dweller Does Dragon Age II

Bioware also misses the opportunity to tie the game mechanics directly into that conflict. Magic cast by your party is completely ignored by the Templars outside of scripted events, Blood magic is purchased with a simple skill point choice instead of a story one like in DA:O, and you never have to face corruption of your own powers, as a mage. Disappointing, given that Bioware managed to make restrictions on magic tie into the game mechanics as far back as Baldur's Gate 2, with the Cowled Wizard's prohibition on spellcasting in Athkatla.

Dragon Age 2 is a mediocre and deeply flawed action RPG, rushed out to earn EA a quick buck and betting on Bioware's reputation to pull up the sales. Even though the setting and the events are interesting, and the various options show potential, the overwhelming focus on killing things keeps you from digging into the world and its characters in a satisfying manner, and cripple replayability. Unfortunately, the combat is too repetitive to carry the game on its own. It's bad enough that even the mainstream reporters have noticed, though they are generally quick to make excuses.

Iksenpets
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(01-12-2017, 05:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by spindoctor

"The reaction"

"Feedback cycle"

Bioware probably still thinks Dragon Age 2 was a great game.

I think it's possible to for them to believe DA2 wasn't great, and also that the reaction they got to it was was overblown.
Agent_4Seven
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(01-12-2017, 05:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by spindoctor

Bioware probably still thinks Dragon Age 2 was a great game.

Same goes for DAI. Furthermore, they always bring up GOTY as if it means anything and making the game much better than it actually is. It means nothing, BioWare, deal with it.
Last edited by Agent_4Seven; 01-12-2017 at 05:40 AM.
Ploid 3.0
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(01-12-2017, 05:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by FrontalMonk

People are really seeing a different story than I am at the end there, huh? He flat out says "After parts of DAII’s “feedback cycle” that meant a LOT to me." That sounds to me like "damn, our game fell really flat, people fucking hated this game that we rushed like shit to get out the door, to see that people actually still liked the game that we poured ourselves into makes me feel better about my life choices". But hey, maybe I'm reading too far into it.

This is how I read it, I didn't realize some people might have seen it in a different way. He even said they didn't expect many people to show up. "the feedback cycle was so good people won't show up to see what we have to talk about!"
Luxorek
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(01-12-2017, 05:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Arulan

Vault Dweller Does Dragon Age II

My god. Perfection! And that ending!

EA Superior: What did we learn, Laidlaw?
Mike Laidlaw: I don't know, sir.
EA Superior: I don't fuckin' know either. I guess we learned not to do it again.
Mike Laidlaw: Yes, sir.
EA Superior: I'm fucked if I know what we did.
Mike Laidlaw: Yes, sir, it's, uh, hard to say.
EA Superior: Jesus Fucking Christ.

I needed that laugh.
Teeth
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(01-12-2017, 05:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Agent_4Seven

Same goes for DAI. Furthermore, they always bring up GOTY as if it means anything and making the game much better than it actually is. It means nothing, BioWare, deal with it.

No. The Feedback Cycle at big companies like these involves having community managers and marketing people scour gaming forums like GAF to find excerpts about specific problems people had and collect data on amount of specific mentions of what people hated the most. The heads of the teams get to go over that criticism with the marketing people and their bosses and "plan for the future" which often means having to listen to (often true) scathing criticism of something you just spent a chunk of your life killing yourself for.

DA2 had some ridiculous development cycle of something like 11 months. That is savage. The people involved had to answer for the direct criticisms of Dragon Age Origins (too generic looking, gather the races and save the world plotline, combat "shuffle" and poor console interface) while building a RPG in a year. So they broke their backs over it and likely had troubled times that they found breakthroughs they were proud of, struggled through other portions that they tried to hide the weaknesses of, and did the best they could. There are a lot of very specific things to like about DA2 and the team was likely proud of those things.

The audience thought otherwise. When you're really close to it, you often see your own triumphs over the struggles you're going through rather than the overall triumphs of game design. The audience doesn't see the 16 times you did that mission design before finally ending up on one that actually works. They don't see how you had to re-script the entirety of the 5th chapter of the 2nd act because the modellers couldn't budget enough time for your dungeon. Etc.

His comment was specifically about how, after hearing all the "feedback", he was pretty sure everyone hated his game and all the flaws were laid bare for him. He was likely crushed; no one wants to put out something that everyone hates. But finding a group of people that saw the good side of the game probably touched him and motivated him to keep going.

Which is good for humans.

For the record, I didn't like DA2, but the Bioware knife twisting is sad these days.
DocSeuss
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(01-12-2017, 05:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

So enthusiast forum that was very attached to the first game which was a more traditional pc rpg hated the sequel which went in a very different (more streamlined) direction

Like... yeah, as has already been discussed in this thread, it is very different to origins and falls short in many ways compared to it. But something not being what you want does not make it bad.

I don't care for Doom but I don't think it's bad.

you're disingenuously attempting to argue a different point.

On its own merits, the game doesn't work. If you liked it, fine, but it's a bad video game, by any basic understanding of game design. This is ultimately why it sold poorly (people didn't like it) and why EA went in such a radically different offline MMO direction for Dragon Age: Inquisition.

There's a reason Bioware folks I've talked to have told me to "never ask anyone who worked on the game what they think about it."
Yabberwocky
Member
(01-12-2017, 06:04 AM)
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EM is still my disappointing 'what if' when it comes to DLC, but I understand why Bioware didn't go ahead with it. Both Legacy and Mark of the Assassin had a ton of party banter for small DLCs, I really enjoyed them. Sadly, the DA:I DLCs barely had any, even ME DLCs didn't really have much either, sans maybe Citadel.
Shaanyboi
Member
(01-12-2017, 06:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by carlsojo

2 had the best gameplay and pacing imo. It was focused and it had a good story.

Remember how almost every dungeon was the exact same map and geometry with some doors blocked off?

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