• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

ZeoVGM
formerly omg rite
(09-06-2017, 09:41 PM)
ZeoVGM's Avatar
With all of the fantastic QoL changes to Destiny 2, it's quite shocking to see them take such a large step back with this to the point where it feels very anti-player.

In Destiny 2, you can now apply shaders to everything: individual pieces of armor, weapons, Ghosts, ships, sparrows. This is especially fantastic for armor as you can now mix and match shaders, creating an interesting and more unique look than in Destiny 1.

The problem is that they are now consumables. If you attach it to a piece of armor and then switch to another, you lose it. While shaders seem to drop in multiples, that doesn't change the issue.

The entire point of allowing the player to now use shaders on multiple pieces is to let them play around with their design. You can't very well do that if you're worried about losing a shader just to try on another and see how it looks with others.

And yes, there are at least 20 shaders that will drop from the new Bright Engrams -- something you can purchase with real money. You can also get a Bright Engram each time you "level up" once you hit the max level of 20.

They introduced the ability to customize yourself more and then drastically limited the player's ability to actually play around with them. There are now two large threads on the Destiny Reddit front page regarding it as well.

I honestly can't believe this system made it into the final game. It makes no sense at all.

Destiny 2 is amazing. I love it. But it needs to be said that this is a very poor design choice and and it needs to be changed. Shaders should work as they Destiny 1: you collect them once, you have them for good. Except now you can equip them to everything, allowing players the ability to play around with their look to their heart's content.

That's rewarding and fun. Having players worry about experimenting with their character's design because they might lose a rare shader and need to get it again? That's very much not fun.

EDIT: I should add that while I do mention in the OP that some are tied to microtransactions, the main issue here is that the shaders are one-time use consumables. Please keep that in mind when discussing the issue.
Gravy Boat
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:43 PM)
Gravy Boat's Avatar
Can you not preview them before using them?
Raven117
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:43 PM)
Raven117's Avatar
I know this is important to lots of people, but for me...if this is the major gripe coming out of launch, then Bungie just hit a homerun.
Wulfram
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:44 PM)
Shaders = Dyes?
Jira
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:44 PM)
Jira's Avatar
If they want to keep the system they have, they should make the shaders permanent unlocks with a currency you spend to use them. It's commonplace in some B2P games where you can earn said currency in the game or buy in a cash shop. No one will deny what they're going for here, but it can work out with a bit better implementation.
enkaisu
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:44 PM)
enkaisu's Avatar
This is legitimately one of the most frustrating things about the game. I loved hunting for and collecting shaders, I'd often swap them out, and now I can't.
Neuromancer
The Mayuh of f'n Bawston
(09-06-2017, 09:44 PM)
Neuromancer's Avatar
That's ridiculous. Luke Smith, please.
Zombie James
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:45 PM)
Zombie James's Avatar
Of course we only find out about this after the game launches.
FelipeMGM
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:45 PM)
FelipeMGM's Avatar
In D1 I used to like having a bunch of different shaders

but with the time I got so many that they became more of a burden clogging up my post office and even though they made it simpler to delete them and get it back from the collection, I stopped caring by the end

so yeah this is kinda shitty, but I dont think I care that much so they wont get a dime from me anyway
Lord of Castamere
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:45 PM)
Lord of Castamere's Avatar
I mean, what doesn't make sense? Bright Engrams are the equivalent of Overwatches lootboxes, which means they need a constant supply of items for it. If you could get everything easily, then the concept really wouldn't work. Small filler items need to go hand in hand with the bigger drops.
ZeoVGM
formerly omg rite
(09-06-2017, 09:45 PM)
ZeoVGM's Avatar

Originally Posted by Gravy Boat

Can you not preview them before using them?

You can but it shows you it on your entire armor. You can't preview it with other shaders on different pieces of armor.

Originally Posted by Raven117

I know this is important to lots of people, but for me...if this is the major gripe coming out of launch, then Bungie just hit a homerun.

Right but this is a pretty big gripe. Customization of your character is one of the main goals of the game.
Ravelle
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:45 PM)
Ravelle's Avatar
Dyes are consumables in any other MMO as well, they're ink pots you use on your armor to give them a color. It's actually crazy shaders are forever usable.

I can understand why it bothers people coming from 1 though, I hope this will change in the future if there's enough buzz about it.
benicillin
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:46 PM)
So shaders are the new Chroma?

At least you can apply them to individual pieces of armor now. Considering how many Chroma I had in my vault I'm not all that concerned about some shaders being in packages that you still get for free.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:46 PM)
Man Called Aerodynamics's Avatar
Ugh, that sounds like it does kind of suck. Hopefully shaders will drop in large quantities.
Kickz
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:46 PM)
Kickz's Avatar

Originally Posted by enkaisu

This is legitimately one of the most frustrating things about the game. I loved hunting for and collecting shaders, I'd often swap them out, and now I can't.

ca$$$$h GRAB
JStein0222
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:47 PM)
JStein0222's Avatar

Originally Posted by Zombie James

Of course we only find out about this after the game launches.

Which is why I really don't want to hear from apologists on this one. They know it's bad.
Gravy Boat
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:47 PM)
Gravy Boat's Avatar

Originally Posted by ZeoVGM

You can but it shows you it on your entire armor. You can't preview it with other shaders on different pieces of armor.



Right but this is a pretty big gripe. Customization of your character is one of the main goals of the game.

Still, if you're able to preview it then I don't see this as an issue tbh.
HawksWinStanley
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:47 PM)
HawksWinStanley's Avatar

Originally Posted by Jira

If they want to keep the system they have, they should make the shaders permanent unlocks with a currency you spend to use them. It's commonplace in some B2P games where you can earn said currency in the game or buy in a cash shop. No one will deny what they're going for here, but it can work out with a bit better implementation.

I'd be cool with this. And I'd actually prefer it rather than having to juggle a bunch of shaders in the hilariously limited vault space we're given (in D1 at least).
forrest
formerly nacire
(09-06-2017, 09:47 PM)
forrest's Avatar
Definitely won't be a popular change. I think I was more shocked to see that character customization didn't getting any changes.
Gin-Shiio
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:47 PM)
Gin-Shiio's Avatar

Originally Posted by Raven117

I know this is important to lots of people, but for me...if this is the major gripe coming out of launch, then Bungie just hit a homerun.

Nevertheless it's a change to the worse for no good reason that they failed to mention in advance.
eizarus
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:48 PM)

Originally Posted by Ravelle

Dyes are consumables in any other MMO as well, they're ink pots you use on your armor to give them a color. It's actually crazy shaders are forever usable.

I get what you're saying but Destiny 1 let you hold onto shaders forever. Having said that, most of those shaders were nasty full armour shaders so I don't mind being able to individually change the colour of gear at the cost of it being consumable.
BananasWithGuns
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:49 PM)
BananasWithGuns's Avatar
Well that seems pretty scummy.
ZeoVGM
formerly omg rite
(09-06-2017, 09:49 PM)
ZeoVGM's Avatar

Originally Posted by benicillin

So shaders are the new Chroma?

At least you can apply them to individual pieces of armor now. Considering how many Chroma I had in my vault I'm not all that concerned about some shaders being in packages that you still get for free.

Right.

I thought Chroma was neat but it would have been better if, once you used a color, you permanently had it as an option on that piece of armor. You would then collect all the colors so you can easily cycle through.

That being said, Chroma was a minor thing on a small number of weapons and armor. This is the entire customization feature of the game.
Haines
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:49 PM)
Fine with me.
carlsojo
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:49 PM)
carlsojo's Avatar
And today's big outrage is...

Shaders.
Daffy Duck
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:50 PM)
Daffy Duck's Avatar
I wonder how vicious Activision will get with micro transactions in Destiny 2 in 6-12 months.
Aselith
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:50 PM)
Aselith's Avatar

Originally Posted by Lord of Castamere

I mean, what doesn't make sense? Bright Engrams are the equivalent of Overwatches lootboxes, which means they need a constant supply of items for it. If you could get everything easily, then the concept really wouldn't work. Small filler items need to go hand in hand with the bigger drops.

...that shaders used to be reusable and now are not...
Hoo-doo
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:50 PM)
Hoo-doo's Avatar
I mean, it's basically them printing money. If it's just cosmetics then i'm not too bothered usually. Just feels harsh that they are regressing from the first game with this move.
katsubento
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:50 PM)
katsubento's Avatar
That's odd, but that just makes shaders Chroma. Prefer the old way, but it's not something I'd be angry much about.
Nakazato
(09-06-2017, 09:52 PM)
Nakazato's Avatar
Oh this is a fucking problem fix this shit
lucebuce12
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:52 PM)
lucebuce12's Avatar

Originally Posted by katsubento

That's odd, but that just makes shaders Chroma. Prefer the old way, but it's not something I'd be angry much about.

I am. I wanna play dress up :(
Syril
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:52 PM)
Lame. I used to change shaders all the time in the first game.
Lord of Castamere
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:52 PM)
Lord of Castamere's Avatar

Originally Posted by Aselith

...that shaders used to be reusable and now are not...

I just explained that though. They want filler for the loot boxes. To keep you playing.
Ikuu
Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
(09-06-2017, 09:52 PM)
Ikuu's Avatar
They charge for something that was in the original and people still defend it lol
benicillin
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:53 PM)

Originally Posted by ZeoVGM

Right.

I thought Chroma was neat but it would have been better if, once you used a color, you permanently had it as an option on that piece of armor. You would then collect all the colors so you can easily cycle through.

That being said, Chroma was a minor thing on a small number of weapons and armor. This is the entire customization feature of the game.

Okay but you're talking about some shaders that are only available from bright engrams, something that you also get for free at what seems like a decent drop rate. In addition to all the shaders that will still drop normally.

In the first game there were more than a handful of shaders you could only get from the Eververse, and only if you got lucky in the random drop table and were able to collect all of the armor sets from packages.

This doesn't seem any worse than that.
Leafhopper
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:53 PM)
Guild Wars 2 has account wide dyes that can be applied to each piece of armor for any of your characters.

A completely different game mind you but, it does make this sound a little lame with them being consumables. Perhaps that spoiled me.
Aselith
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:53 PM)
Aselith's Avatar

Originally Posted by Lord of Castamere

I just explained that though. They want filler for the loot boxes. To keep you playing.

Ok, but can you not follow his basic argument that it shouldn't have been changed? You're acting like he doesn't understand something when he's just arguing agianst the change.
zewone
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:54 PM)
zewone's Avatar
This is a garbage-tier change.
spad3
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:54 PM)
spad3's Avatar
"Let's add more UNIQUE content!"

"Nah let's reuse a bunch of guns from the first game, 99% of the same assets, and fuck it, let's take away some shit and make it more frustrating"

DESTINY 2
The Lamonster
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:54 PM)
The Lamonster's Avatar
Yep, this is probably my biggest disappointment with Destiny 2.
jett
D-Member
(09-06-2017, 09:55 PM)
jett's Avatar
Why would anyone think this is a good idea.
Magwik
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:55 PM)

Originally Posted by spad3

"Let's add more UNIQUE content!"

"Nah let's reuse a bunch of guns from the first game, 99% of the same assets, and fuck it, let's take away some shit and make it more frustrating"

DESTINY 2

"Let's post a bunch of false shit to pass myself off as the smart person in the room"
SHIT POSTING
Lord of Castamere
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:56 PM)
Lord of Castamere's Avatar

Originally Posted by Aselith

Ok, but can you not follow his basic argument that it shouldn't have been changed? You're acting like he doesn't understand something when he's just arguing agianst the change.

He's said that it doesn't make any sense at all, but it makes perfect sense.
Zombie James
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:56 PM)
Zombie James's Avatar

Originally Posted by Nakazato

Oh this is a fucking problem fix this shit

Oh yeah, I'm sure after they collect all their launch day money they'll get right on "fixing" this "problem" they told no one about.
AstroNut325
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:56 PM)
AstroNut325's Avatar
My son loved changing shaders! Wtf...
benzopil
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:56 PM)
benzopil's Avatar

Originally Posted by spad3

"Let's add more UNIQUE content!"

"Nah let's reuse a bunch of guns from the first game, 99% of the same assets, and fuck it, let's take away some shit and make it more frustrating"

DESTINY 2

what are you even talking about
Skatterd
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:56 PM)
Skatterd's Avatar
I think the problem is they didn't work this way before, and in retrospect that makes it shitty. If they had always been this way no one would have batted an eye.

That said, I'll wait to see the drop rate before I reserve judgement, but my first impression is it seems unnecessarily annoying.
TheXbox
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:57 PM)
TheXbox's Avatar
You can have paid DLC or you can have microtransactions. You can't have both.

I mean, they WILL, but they shouldn't.
Poster#1
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:57 PM)
Poster#1's Avatar

Originally Posted by Wulfram

Shaders = Dyes?

Yes.
Burdmayn
Member
(09-06-2017, 09:58 PM)
Burdmayn's Avatar
Is there a way to preview how a shader will look before using it?

Originally Posted by TheXbox

You can have paid DLC or you can have microtransactions. You can't have both.

I mean, they WILL, but they shouldn't.

I'm not super against this in-game DLC stuff personally, but I wish this weren't the case. If stuff like this meant expansions were free, I feel like opinions would be a bit different.

Thread Tools