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Toadthemushroom
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(09-12-2017, 03:14 PM)
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Edit: Write-up on Eurogamer here.

New Digital Foundry video here.

John looks at Rayman Legends on Switch. Some things have been lost, and some issues have been introduced.

-1080p on Switch like other console releases.
-New content includes tournament mode for Kung Foot and all previously exclusive characters from other systems in one place
-Load screens generally the longest of any platform with the game to date (both via SD card and internal memory) - load times were even 50% faster on Wii U off disc on average. John suspects this is due to the need for decompression as the Switch version only weighs 2.9GB (versus 6.7GB on Wii U and 9GB on PS4).
-Framerate mostly a rock-solid 60fps.
-Asymmetric multiplayer with Murphy now missing - no option to link two Switch systems either where Switch 1 had four players, and Switch 2 had player five as Murphy.

This is a shame. I suspect PastaGames needed more time to work on this port.
Last edited by Toadthemushroom; 09-12-2017 at 03:21 PM.
Shaanyboi
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(09-12-2017, 03:16 PM)
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Why the heavy compression?
Robin64
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(09-12-2017, 03:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shaanyboi

Why the heavy compression?

Get it on a smaller cart, save money.
RPG_Fanatic
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(09-12-2017, 03:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shaanyboi

Why the heavy compression?

Probably so they could use the smallest cart size and save money. That would be my guess.
Guymelef
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(09-12-2017, 03:19 PM)

Originally Posted by Shaanyboi

Why the heavy compression?

Maybe saving costs going with 4GB cartridges instead of 8GB.
SatoAilDarko
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(09-12-2017, 03:20 PM)
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Still surprised Kung Foot Tournament was all that was added.

Are there no new costumes? Xbox One and PS4 got new ones on release but then again they were platform-specific and didn't include some of the previous platform-specific ones.

Originally Posted by Shaanyboi

Why the heavy compression?

I would guess to use a 4GB card?

Which is weird as the difference between a 4GB and 8GB would hopefully not be huge.
OrbitalBeard
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(09-12-2017, 03:20 PM)
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I was considering grabbing this version, but I think I'm going to pass. Glad I waited.
Ridley327
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(09-12-2017, 03:20 PM)
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I think most people figured that this would wind up as a rather cheap port, but I don't think anyone was expecting it to be so cheap that it compromised the load times. Poor form from Ubisoft here.
Waluigilicious
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(09-12-2017, 03:21 PM)
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Asymmetric multiplayer with Murphy now missing - no option to link two Switch systems either where Switch 1 had four players, and Switch 2 had player five as Murphy.

finally someone mentions it!
Toadthemushroom
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(09-12-2017, 03:21 PM)
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I seem to remember Ubisoft even listing the functionality to connect several Switches via local multiplayer to re-create the original Wii U experience on the game's page a few months ago.

Update: I wasn't imagining things. Back in May I posted this to an old thread about the game:

Originally Posted by Toadthemushroom

Yup, the official description for the game mentions "you can also connect two consoles for playing in local co-op", so it's basically handled via local multiplayer with two or more Switches:

1-4 docked or handheld mode Switches on the TV and Switch screens platforming, with up to 4 Joy-Con controllers (8?) connected between them
1 handheld mode Switch playing as Murphy

The bolded can still be found in Ubisoft's written description for the game at Nintendo's website.

Exclusive to Nintendo Switch, the Kung Foot experience now offers a Solo Mode and a Tournament Mode for pitting up to eight teams against each other. You can also connect two consoles for playing in local co-op.

This was referring specifically to Kung Foot all along then - which does support wireless link-up.
Brofield
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(09-12-2017, 03:22 PM)
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Is there much hope for a post release update to give back asymmetrical multiplayer? I still haven't beaten it on WiiU so I'm more content to play there in the meantime, but nevertheless I'd certainly love to have at least Kung Foot on the go
Toadthemushroom
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(09-12-2017, 03:22 PM)
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Interesting that Lego City fared much better with compression: TT Fusion cut the game down from 19GB on Wii U to below 8GB on Switch, while also seeing a marked improvement to load times in addition to a dramatic improvement to visual quality (physically based rendering, framerate, resolution, environment modelling and effects, shadow maps), including textures.
BGBW
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(09-12-2017, 03:23 PM)
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So might as well buy it on Wii U then?
Intel_89
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(09-12-2017, 03:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by BGBW

So might as well buy it on Wii U then?

Legends was made with the Wii U in mind because of the asymmetric gameplay, so yeah get it on there.
hawk2025
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(09-12-2017, 03:27 PM)
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Pass. Those load times are not acceptable for a quadruple dip.
Toadthemushroom
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(09-12-2017, 03:27 PM)
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Wii U would definitely be the definitive edition. And it's probably got the most ghosts in the online challenges mode to compete against).

There's also something more tactile about using your fingertip or a stylus to move Murphy about versus a thumb swiping a screen, but that's a really tiny thing that most people won't care about.
Cleve
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(09-12-2017, 03:29 PM)
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Lol, worse load times than thw wii-u version? Nope.

The load times on Skylanders switch were so bad that my 6 year old nephew asked if it was broken. It leads to a pretty terrible play experience.
wrowa
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(09-12-2017, 03:31 PM)
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And here I thought 8GB was the smallest cart available.
KingBroly
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(09-12-2017, 03:31 PM)
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You could play the demo of it and know that the Wii U version played better, IMO. Murphy stuff especially.
SatoAilDarko
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(09-12-2017, 03:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Toadthemushroom

Interesting that Lego City fared much better with compression: TT Fusion cut the game down from 19GB on Wii U to below 8GB on Switch, while also seeing a marked improvement to load times in addition to a dramatic improvement to visual quality (physically based rendering, framerate, resolution, environment modelling and effects, shadow maps), including textures.

Wasn't that not due to compression but because they switched the cutscenes from pre-rendered to in-engine?
Toadthemushroom
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(09-12-2017, 03:32 PM)
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Ubisoft releasing the game at retail for £30/$40 RRP probably explains the compression. Must have gone for a smaller game card to keep their margins in line with the lower price.
Ridley327
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(09-12-2017, 03:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by SatoAilDarko

Wasn't that not due to compression but because they switched the cutscenes from pre-rendered to in-engine?

I think so. I think that the PS4/XB1 versions of the game were a similar size, but I think they simply used higher quality assets across the board.
Toadthemushroom
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(09-12-2017, 03:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by SatoAilDarko

Wasn't that not due to compression but because they switched the cutscenes from pre-rendered to in-engine?

I didn't notice any difference in how cutscenes were rendered. Like the original Wii U release, some cutscenes were pre-rendered (using in-game assets and graphics) and some weren't.

It still has pre-rendered cutscenes though - the compression is particularly obvious in docked mode since gameplay is now 1080p.
AgentOtaku
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(09-12-2017, 03:35 PM)
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Bummer :/

Will still probably pick this version up anyway as I've never properly played Legends anyhow
dragonyeuw
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(09-12-2017, 03:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Robin64

Get it on a smaller cart, save money.

And still end up charging $40 for a game commonly available for $20 on other platforms and periodically on PSN/Xbox live for under $10, missing certain gameplay, and loads slower than other versions. How enticing....
Toadthemushroom
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(09-12-2017, 03:36 PM)
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Worth noting that the in-house developer that ported Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends to Vita - Ubisoft Cassablanca - is no more.

Which is probably why Ubisoft outsourced this one. PastaGames are a really talented developer (their in-house tech powers Wonder Boy III's remake, and I loved Maestro, Rayman Jungle Run and PIX the CAT) so I really do wonder why this port fell short of expectations.

Rayman Origins on Vita had some cool stuff that I thought might be implemented here, for example you could pinch the screen to zoom in. Rayman Legends on Vita wasn't so great though, but only because UbiArt levelled up beyond Vita's capabilities. 3D objects lacked antialiasing and there was flatter lighting, so the mix of 3D and 2D visuals in Legends felt jarring on Vita when it was natural elsewhere.
Last edited by Toadthemushroom; 09-12-2017 at 03:40 PM.
uncleniccius
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(09-12-2017, 03:37 PM)
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What a cluster fuck.. those load times are embarrassing, instant loads on XO were awesome.
Waluigilicious
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(09-12-2017, 03:38 PM)
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That video was really good. Finally a video actually mentions the longer loading times (sometimes upto double!) and the lack of asymmetric multiplayer AND explaining how it was possible because they had programmed it for the Vita. They even mention the lack of 5 players.

No other reviewers seem to have mentioned any of these things. I watched both Nintendo Life and Gamexplain and neither did. So what's the point of their reviews? How can we expect change and patches from the developer if no one even brings these issues up?

Anyway my question is who is best to contact? Pastagames or Ubisoft and via what method? I don't really use Twitter.
Toadthemushroom
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(09-12-2017, 03:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Waluigilicious

That video was really good. Finally a video actually mentions the longer loading times (sometimes upto double!) and the lack of asymmetric multiplayer AND explaining how it was possible because they had programmed it for the Vita. They even mention the lack of 5 players.

No other reviewers seem to have mentioned any of these things. I watched both Nintendo Life and Gamexplain and neither did. So what's the point of their reviews? How can we expect change and patches from the developer if no one even brings these issues up?

Anyway my question is who is best to contact? Pastagames or Ubisoft and via what method? I don't really use Twitter.

PastaGames should get back to you quickly, though Ubisoft probably call the shots on whether they are allowed to spend more time working on the game so maybe try both.

pastateam@pastagames.net
LAA
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(09-12-2017, 03:41 PM)
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Wow embarrassing indeed. Sad. Got it for £15, so not too regretful about it, but yeah Ubi should have known better about skimping on the cart size, especially after the Lego City Undercover revelation it may require download to play the game, as it was suspected it wouldn't all be on the cart.
FutureLarking
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(09-12-2017, 03:43 PM)
I appreciate the effort to make the file size smaller - every MB counts on the Switch and if they do patch anything, I hope it stays small.

But surely given the additional 2GB extra RAM over the Wii U version they could've kept the hub loaded in memory the whole time so you don't need load times to return too it? That would've helped a little bit to alleviate the extra load times.
The Main Event
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(09-12-2017, 03:45 PM)
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Between the high price tag ($60) and the EB exclusivity in Canada, looks like Iíll be skipping it and buy it again on Wii U. Damn shame.
Waluigilicious
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(09-12-2017, 03:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Toadthemushroom

PastaGames should get back to you quickly, though Ubisoft probably call the shots on whether they are allowed to spend more time working on the game so maybe try both.

pastateam@pastagames.net

I've sent a nice friendly email asking about it, hope some of you guys do the same! Didn't mention the loading times, just the lack of asymmetric and 5 player multiplayer.
Toadthemushroom
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(09-12-2017, 03:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by FutureLarking

I appreciate the effort to make the file size smaller - every MB counts on the Switch and if they do patch anything, I hope it stays small.

But surely given the additional 2GB extra RAM over the Wii U version they could've kept the hub loaded in memory the whole time so you don't need load times to return too it? That would've helped a little bit to alleviate the extra load times.

I can imagine levels sharing assets with each other within the same world, too. If I remember correctly do you get kicked out to the Hub every time you clear a stage within a painting?
ngower
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(09-12-2017, 03:48 PM)
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I imagine the loading time issues can be remedied via post-launch patch? I may hold off for a few months on this one, but I've still yet to play it on any platform so I'll dive in eventually.
sixteen-bit
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(09-12-2017, 03:51 PM)
will wait for the definitive-er edition
Prevolition
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(09-12-2017, 03:52 PM)
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Dat Wii U vindication
Toadthemushroom
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(09-12-2017, 03:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Waluigilicious

I've sent a nice friendly email asking about it, hope some of you guys do the same! Didn't mention the loading times, just the lack of asymmetric and 5 player multiplayer.

Nice one. Did you ask whether they plan to bring PIX the CAT to Switch as well? Will triple dip :)
Waluigilicious
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(09-12-2017, 03:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Prevolition

Dat Wii U vindication

The Vita version is better than the Switch version at this stage. The Switch version does not get an extra pass because it can be docked and used as handheld on its own. That's a feature of the system not the game. As it stands both the Wii U and Vita versions are better. I'd argue the PSXBX versions are better too as all that's here as an extra is the Murphy levels repeated in one player, in exchange to longer loading times.
RootCause
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(09-12-2017, 03:54 PM)
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Thats a damn shame.
felipepl
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(09-12-2017, 03:59 PM)
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I bought the game and the 10 seconds instead of 5 to load a level are ruining my life.

Oh wait... no. Talk about overreacting. The game plays beautifully and looks gorgeous as always, specially on the Switch screen.

It's incredible how everything "negative" found by Digital Foundry becomes a deal breaker to some. They're fast becoming a sort of Rotten Tomatoes for technical reviews. Not their fault though.
Last edited by felipepl; 09-12-2017 at 04:02 PM.
night814
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(09-12-2017, 04:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Intel_89

Legends was made with the Wii U in mind because of the asymmetric gameplay, so yeah get it on there.

#ShouldHaveBeenExclusive #DarkestTimeline

It sold best and played best out of all the console versions on WiiU but Ubi decided to shoot it and themselves in the foot by announcing "it's coming to everything" and delaying it to do such and have it launch simultaneously. They killed a TON of momentum for the game and potentially really hurt the WiiU's first year of software by assisting the game drought.

Game is still incredible and the music levels are S-rank platforming joy. Sad to see that a 5 year port of one of ubis more recently adored games is being hindered to save money.
ShadowSoldier89
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(09-12-2017, 04:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by felipepl

I bought the game and the 10 seconds instead of 5 to load a level are ruining my life.

Oh wait... no. Talk about overreacting. The game plays beautifully and looks gorgeous as always, specially on the Switch screen.

It's incredible how everything "negative" found by Digital Foundry becomes a deal breaker to some. They're fast becoming a sort of Rotten Tomatoes for technical reviews. Not their fault though.

objectively assessing the quality of a port isnt being negative...take your damn goggles off

16 seconds isntead of 0 seconds in a game that encourages replays and retries is a large negative for many
Last edited by ShadowSoldier89; 09-12-2017 at 04:05 PM.
felipepl
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(09-12-2017, 04:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by ShadowSoldier89

objectively assessing the quality of a port isnt being negative...take your damn goggles off

Not for you.
Wowfunhappy
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(09-12-2017, 04:08 PM)
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This game is just going to become the new Rayman 2, where Ubisoft ports it to all the new consoles just because.
fabricated backlash
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(09-12-2017, 04:10 PM)
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Can you smell that? Smells awfully like the Wii days. Lowest possible effort ports ahoy
Toadthemushroom
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(09-12-2017, 04:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Waluigilicious

The Vita version is better than the Switch version at this stage. The Switch version does not get an extra pass because it can be docked and used as handheld on its own. That's a feature of the system not the game. As it stands both the Wii U and Vita versions are better. I'd argue the PSXBX versions are better too as all that's here as an extra is the Murphy levels repeated in one player, in exchange to longer loading times.

Provided you have another 1-4 Vita owners to play with, I'd be inclined to agree, though for players not playing in multiplayer the Switch version probably isn't a bad buy.

Wii U is the way to go, though.
ec0ec0
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(09-12-2017, 04:11 PM)

Originally Posted by wrowa

And here I thought 8GB was the smallest cart available.

.
Aretak
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(09-12-2017, 04:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by felipepl

I bought the game and the 10 seconds instead of 5 to load a level are ruining my life.

Oh wait... no. Talk about overreacting. The game plays beautifully and looks gorgeous as always, specially on the Switch screen.

It's incredible how everything "negative" found by Digital Foundry becomes a deal breaker to some. They're fast becoming a sort of Rotten Tomatoes for technical reviews. Not their fault though.

Who's "overreacting"? It's being sold as the "Definitive Edition" of Rayman Legends. It's not unreasonable in the slightest to point out that it's actually the worst version of the game, even if the issues are relatively minor. Nor is it unreasonable for anyone to not buy into this version when the game is available in a superior form, likely for less money, on so many other platforms.
plagiarize
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(09-12-2017, 04:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aretak

Who's "overreacting"? It's being sold as the "Definitive Edition" of Rayman Legends. It's not unreasonable in the slightest to point out that it's actually the worst version of the game, even if the issues are relatively minor. Nor is it unreasonable for anyone to not buy into this version when the game is available in a superior form, likely for less money, on so many other platforms.

Yeah. That just sort of adds salt to the wounds here. Calling it the definitive edition hurts when A: it's clearly not and B: a truly definitive edition would have been ace. If this didn't load slower, and let me play as murphy in multiplayer (even if that meant two copies of the game and two switches) then I'd likely have picked it up. Not going to now.

Originally Posted by Toadthemushroom

Provided you have another 1-4 Vita owners to play with, I'd be inclined to agree, though for players not playing in multiplayer the Switch version probably isn't a bad buy.

Wii U is the way to go, though.

Vita only supported two players with system link. Just FYI. Still was a neat feature though.

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