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Ooccoo
Member
(09-12-2017, 11:29 PM)
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I'm surprised no one is talking about this here. Ubisoft proudly announced that South Park: The Fractured But Whole would feature 7 languages at launch, including the French VA. However, the publisher announced yesterday how this won't be the case anymore for the French VA. All relevant links have been removed from their website. Keep in mind that the game is scheduled to release in one month.

So instead of getting the actors who voiced Cartman, Kyle, Stan and others for 20 years, Ubisoft chose other people to do the job. It was a big selling point for me and probably many others. Ubisoft commented on this through an official PR saying they basically couldn't come up with a deal for the French VA. This is absurd for many reasons: 1) the game has been in development for a while and even delayed 2) Ubisoft isn't a small publisher and 3) announcing the game will have something then saying 'oops, sorry we announced something we could not do' is pretty amateur from such a big studio.

What do you think?
Hero of Legend
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(09-12-2017, 11:30 PM)
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Weirder still; Ubisoft's a French company.
Broadbandito
Member
(09-12-2017, 11:30 PM)
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anything to do with the strike?
Get_craycray
Banned
(09-12-2017, 11:30 PM)
It's a god damn shame because the french VA is pretty awesome, almost as good as the original.
Kouriozan
Member
(09-12-2017, 11:31 PM)
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Only country without official VA, oh Ubisoft...
My brother was really hyped for this, really sad now.
Linkura
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(09-12-2017, 11:31 PM)
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Obligatory:

Ooccoo
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(09-12-2017, 11:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hero of Legend

Weirder still; Ubisoft's a French company.

Yea :)
funo
Member
(09-12-2017, 11:39 PM)
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First of all, of course they should not have advertised it beforehand.
As heartbreaking as this might be for our fellow Frenchiea, I am pretty sure you guys are severely underestimating the contracts and the related costs for TV personalities voicing video games.
I cannot get into too much detail about the contracts but depending on the sales of the previous game(s) in France, it might actually not be profitable to buyout the famous voices.
To me, this looks like a typical decision by some higher-ups number pushers.
benzopil
Member
(09-12-2017, 11:42 PM)
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I thought it's only availanle in English lol. Ubisoft fully localizes every game in Russian, including even Child of Light, but not South Park.
Kouriozan
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(09-12-2017, 11:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by funo

First of all, of course they should not have advertised it beforehand.
As heartbreaking as this might be for our fellow Frenchiea, I am pretty sure you guys are severely underestimating the contracts and the related costs for TV personalities voicing video games.
I cannot get into too much detail about the contracts but depending on the sales of the previous game(s) in France, it might actually not be profitable to buyout the famous voices.
To me, this looks like a typical decision by some higher-ups number pushers.

Those VAs said Ubisoft signed a contract last year (so they already got paid) but broke it 3 months ago.
And apparently they voiced the full game, before the last minute changes.

Edit : and of course I repeat, all other countries (9 iirc) got their official voice actors...
funo
Member
(09-12-2017, 11:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kouriozan

Those VAs said Ubisoft signed a contract last year (so they already got paid) but broke it 3 months ago.
And apparently they voiced the full game, before the last minute changes.

What the what?
Is there a source for this?
GSY Miguel
Member
(09-12-2017, 11:45 PM)
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Well that's not really Ubisoft's fault, since season 15 the guys doing the official French voices want more money and even TV channels would not pay that much to record voices for these seasons.

Seasons 15, 16 and 17 were recorded years after the US episodes aired, and season 18 was just recorded last june, an almost 3 year old season... don't expect seasons 19 and 20 soon in French...

I guess they want too much money compared to the comedians of the other countries, it's too bad for us French, I'll try the news French voices but now I'm used to the original voices, so I might just chose that one.
Kamisori
Junior Member
(09-12-2017, 11:45 PM)
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Actually the situation is a bit special in France about the dubbing of South Park. The broadcasting of the tvshow has been halted several times because of issues with the french dubbers (the last season dubbed is the 17th yet apparently the dub of the 18th has been recorded last june) because apparently the dubbers asked too much money (and this kind of issue is mostly rare in France).

So it's may not entirely the fault of Ubisoft in that case.
Linkura
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(09-12-2017, 11:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kouriozan

Those VAs said Ubisoft signed a contract last year (so they already got paid) but broke it 3 months ago.
And apparently they voiced the full game, before the last minute changes.

What the FUCK
AuthenticM
Member
(09-12-2017, 11:50 PM)
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wow, that sucks
Woo-Fu
incest on the subway
(09-13-2017, 12:03 AM)
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Don't think I'd blame anybody until I had the full story.
Shahadan
(09-13-2017, 12:04 AM)
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Shame it's the one show with the Simpsons in which I actually prefer french voices. They're great
Audioboxer
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(09-13-2017, 12:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kouriozan

Those VAs said Ubisoft signed a contract last year (so they already got paid) but broke it 3 months ago.
And apparently they voiced the full game, before the last minute changes.

Edit : and of course I repeat, all other countries (9 iirc) got their official voice actors...

What are you doing Ubisoft?

At first, I thought this was going to be some case of VA's being held hostage to being underpaid in the gaming industry. If the above is true it seems like some sort of even more stupid fuckery.
Transistor
Banned
(09-13-2017, 12:11 AM)
Crossing Eden, get in here and explain yourself!
Lain
Member
(09-13-2017, 12:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ooccoo

What do you think?

Things change during development.
If they really haven't been able to reach an agreement with the VAs, it probably means they asked for more than Ubi was willing to give, be it money specifically or rights.
daxy
Member
(09-13-2017, 12:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kouriozan

Those VAs said Ubisoft signed a contract last year (so they already got paid) but broke it 3 months ago.
And apparently they voiced the full game, before the last minute changes.

Edit : and of course I repeat, all other countries (9 iirc) got their official voice actors...

Got any source for this?
civilstrife
Oyster Oyster Oyster!
OI OI OI!
(09-13-2017, 12:19 AM)
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Will they be allowed to sell this in Quebec?
elyetis
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(09-13-2017, 12:19 AM)
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What the...

Originally Posted by Shahadan

Shame it's the one show with the Simpsons in which I actually prefer french voices. They're great

I'd add Archer too.
pswii60
(09-13-2017, 12:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kamisori

Actually the situation is a bit special in France about the dubbing of South Park. The broadcasting of the tvshow has been halted several times because of issues with the french dubbers (the last season dubbed is the 17th yet apparently the dub of the 18th has been recorded last june) because apparently the dubbers asked too much money (and this kind of issue is mostly rare in France).

So it's may not entirely the fault of Ubisoft in that case.

Out of interest, why do the French like dubbing so much? Whenever in France, I'm always baffled why everything is dubbed and not subtitled. Whereas here in the UK we think dubbing is the most ridiculous thing known to man, and opt for subtitles.
tkscz
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(09-13-2017, 12:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Hero of Legend

Weirder still; Ubisoft's a French company.

Came to point this out
JayEH
Junior Member
(09-13-2017, 12:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Broadbandito

anything to do with the strike?

The American union is striking...not the French...
A Grizzly Bear
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(09-13-2017, 12:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by civilstrife

Will they be allowed to sell this in Quebec?

Pretty sure it just needs packaged material in French and subtitles for that.
KillerMan91
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(09-13-2017, 12:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by pswii60

Out of interest, why do the French like dubbing so much? Whenever in France, I'm always baffled why everything is dubbed and not subtitled. Whereas here in the UK we think dubbing is the most ridiculous thing known to man, and opt for subtitles.

As much as I hate dubbing (luckily we only dub kids shows here in Finland) there is pretty easy explanation for this. UK is english speaking country just like US that dominates TV and movie businesses. I would assume you guys don't have too many non english movies or shows in television so when you actually do it's far easier just to sub it.
GSY Miguel
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(09-13-2017, 12:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by elyetis

What the...
I'd add Archer too.

And Rick and Morty :)

Originally Posted by pswii60

Out of interest, why do the French like dubbing so much? Whenever in France, I'm always baffled why everything is dubbed and not subtitled. Whereas here in the UK we think dubbing is the most ridiculous thing known to man, and opt for subtitles.

I don't know but I guess we are used to it, since decades films and TV shows are fully dubbed.

Some are really well dubbed like The Simpsons, South Park, Archer, Rick and Morty, Futurama, ... and we even don't get the beeps when they say the F word, it's not censored at all and sometimes the words used in French are harsher.

Friends also had a very good dubbing, but like South Park some VAs wanted more money and left, they had to replace 3 of the 6 main character voices from one season to another :/
AuthenticM
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(09-13-2017, 12:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by civilstrife

Will they be allowed to sell this in Quebec?

of course
AristoCat
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(09-13-2017, 12:43 AM)
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Doesn't matter, it's better in english anyway.
Kamisori
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(09-13-2017, 09:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by pswii60

Out of interest, why do the French like dubbing so much? Whenever in France, I'm always baffled why everything is dubbed and not subtitled. Whereas here in the UK we think dubbing is the most ridiculous thing known to man, and opt for subtitles.

There is several reasons for that :
  • French are very proud of the french language and think the language must be protected against foreign influence
  • It's required by law to have all the programs on TV to be in french (written and audio)
  • French have an extensive french culture (whether it's tv, movie, music, theater or book)
  • French are generally bad in foreign languages (even if they learn english (or german) at school starting at 12yo i believe)

Yet since few years, tv channels are also proposing an option to get watch the programs in VO+subtitles (french, rarely english too)
Psyrgery ES
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(09-13-2017, 09:11 AM)
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It wont be dubbed in spanish either, just like the stick of truth.

I would not care but Ubisoft dubbed the announcement trailers for both games, and it gave the impression that the games would end up being dubbed. Borders on false advertising imho.
foxbeldin
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(09-13-2017, 09:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kamisori

There is several reasons for that :

  • French are very proud of the french language and think the language must be protected against foreign influence
  • It's required by law to have all the programs on TV to be in french (written and audio)
  • French have an extensive french culture (whether it's tv, movie, music, theater or book)
  • French are generally bad in foreign languages (even if they learn english (or german) at school starting at 12yo i believe)

Yet since few years, tv channels are also proposing an option to get watch the programs in VO+subtitles (french, rarely english too)

This changed a few years ago, now kids begin english in kindergarten, but it's gonna take a decade or two to actually show improvements in the population.
Pyros_Eien
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(09-13-2017, 09:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by foxbeldin

This changed a few years ago, now kids begin english in kindergarten, but it's gonna take a decade or two to actually show improvements in the population.

While it helps if you start earlier, the main issue with the old system is how many hours you had really. I think I only had 2 hours of english a week back when I was in middle/high school(which mind you was 20+years ago, so it might have changed inbetween I didn't pay much attention), so you really didn't progress much, and the class was viewed as extremely minor and wasn't that important to graduate versus some other classes so a lot of classmates really didn't care much about english.

Still most french people under say 30-40 have some good english basics, but a lot are either ashamed it's not good enough to speak it, or still live in the "if you're in france, speak french" thing so tourists and stuff usually don't have that great of an experience when trying to communicate.

As for dubbing as mentionned I believe it's required by law to be dubbed in french to be aired on national TV channels. Nowadays with all the cable channels and stuff like that it's less of an obligation though but people are used to it. There's a bunch of VAs who also are the voices of specific actors so anytime they make a movie, they're expected to use the same VAs but I guess that creates a bunch of issues in terms of contracts where people leverage the popularity of their work to get paid more.

Luckily for me I stopped caring long ago about french dubs and watch everything in the original voice acting with subs(hell most of the time english subs), so this particular news doesn't affect me much, but does sound pretty annoying since changing long time VAs is pretty bad.
Everlya_Apocryha
Banned
(09-13-2017, 10:08 AM)
echo the others....i'm sure this is some sort of VA union issue or something equivilant to prevent Ubisoft from using the French VO that they've already recorded...
Kamisori
Junior Member
(09-13-2017, 10:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pyros_Eien

While it helps if you start earlier, the main issue with the old system is how many hours you had really. I think I only had 2 hours of english a week back when I was in middle/high school(which mind you was 20+years ago, so it might have changed inbetween I didn't pay much attention), so you really didn't progress much, and the class was viewed as extremely minor and wasn't that important to graduate versus some other classes so a lot of classmates really didn't care much about english.

Also english teacher in France are rarely native english speaker, so students may learn bad english (in tone/usage).

Originally Posted by Everlya_Apocryha

echo the others....i'm sure this is some sort of VA union issue or something equivilant to prevent Ubisoft from using the French VO that they've already recorded...

It would be more logic if it's for the consistency of the dub. Changing VAs between two scenes in the game could be troubling for the player.
azertydu91
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(09-13-2017, 10:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pyros_Eien

While it helps if you start earlier, the main issue with the old system is how many hours you had really. I think I only had 2 hours of english a week back when I was in middle/high school(which mind you was 20+years ago, so it might have changed inbetween I didn't pay much attention), so you really didn't progress much, and the class was viewed as extremely minor and wasn't that important to graduate versus some other classes so a lot of classmates really didn't care much about english.

Still most french people under say 30-40 have some good english basics, but a lot are either ashamed it's not good enough to speak it, or still live in the "if you're in france, speak french" thing so tourists and stuff usually don't have that great of an experience when trying to communicate.

As for dubbing as mentionned I believe it's required by law to be dubbed in french to be aired on national TV channels. Nowadays with all the cable channels and stuff like that it's less of an obligation though but people are used to it. There's a bunch of VAs who also are the voices of specific actors so anytime they make a movie, they're expected to use the same VAs but I guess that creates a bunch of issues in terms of contracts where people leverage the popularity of their work to get paid more.

Luckily for me I stopped caring long ago about french dubs and watch everything in the original voice acting with subs(hell most of the time english subs), so this particular news doesn't affect me much, but does sound pretty annoying since changing long time VAs is pretty bad.

English is still strongly disregarded in french schools, when I was in middle school about 10 years ago it was 3h/week and our teacher was really bad and even in high school we had troubles.

I learned most of my english through subbed series,shows or web articles and the worst part is that since I had health problem I couldn't be at schjool for about 2 years but coming back I had a better english level than my english teacher and often corrected her.

So don't be surprised if french people have troubles with english (of course I understand that I'm not representative but these teachers were in place for decades teaching bad english to hundreds of children) If I wasn't so impatient to watch the next episode of the shows I like or so into video games my english would be way worse.
RamaTheVoice
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(09-13-2017, 10:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kamisori

Also english teacher in France are rarely native english speaker, so students may learn bad english (in tone/usage).

This is mainly because the curriculum to become a certified language teacher and be employed in the French public school system is... in French. Having gone through the French public school system, I can confirm that most of my English teachers were non-native, some even going so far as to ask me for confirmation what they said was correct from time to time (which SUCKED).

That changes massively once you get to higher ed though. Most college language teachers are native speakers. Myself included ^^

And can confirm that the French are really fucking bad overall at foreign languages, mainly because the way we teach foreign languages has been fucked for decades. And we also love to cater to the lowest common denominator - until a few years ago some DVDs sold here didn't even have the original language, just the dub. It's also incredibly difficult to find theater screenings of "family films" in their original language unless you're prepared to go see them at 10PM. Again, because kids are idiots and they can't be expected to read subtitles or understand a foreign language, so no need to even give them the option (I'm fully aware this is more for business reasons, I just get massively irritated with the state of foreign language education and exposure in my country).

Originally Posted by azertydu91

I learned most of my english through subbed series,shows or web articles

THIS. A friend of mine back in in high school decided he wanted to learn English on his own terms, so he started watching subbed, then unsubbed TV shows and movies and looking up and translating the lyrics to all his favorite songs, and two years later we were having entire conversations in perfect English. And while I know certain people have a much easier time learning languages than others, that kind of motivation is not something that's really encouraged much.

Also if you are from 91 as your name implies... Hey there Essonne buddy ^^

/derail
TheYanger
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(09-13-2017, 10:46 AM)
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Really kind of an inflammatory way to title the thread when it doesn't sound like this has anything to do with Ubisoft.
Kamisori
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(09-13-2017, 10:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by RamaTheVoice

That changes massively once you get to higher ed though. Most college language teachers are native speakers. Myself included ^^

That's cool then, didn't really noticed in higher ed since i was good enough already at that point. I started to really improve my english by playing City of Heroes on US servers and watching Star Trek TNG (and then DS9/VOY/ENT) in english :'D
RamaTheVoice
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(09-13-2017, 10:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kamisori

That's cool then, didn't really noticed in higher ed since i was good enough already at that point. I started to really improve my english by playing City of Heroes on US servers and watching Star Trek TNG (and then DS9/VOY/ENT) in english :'D

In my previous job, one of my superiors was actually perfecting his English by playing an online strategy game (I don't remember which) on US servers. I remember him getting better by the month!

Also, I want to clarify that when I say most college language teachers are native speakers, that's from personal experience both attending and teaching English in college, but I can't vouch for every single school of course.

Originally Posted by TheYanger

Really kind of an inflammatory way to title the thread when it doesn't sound like this has anything to do with Ubisoft.

It kind of does I guess? Insofar as I believe they used the official French dub VAs as part of the sales pitch. Honestly I'm not too bothered myself since I'm not a fan of dubbing on principle, but I get why people are pissed. For a lot of French people it would be the equivalent of the game not having Parker and Stone doing the voices in English.

How much do you guys wanna bet that this will get used disingenuously as an argument for Vivendi to buy Ubisoft? :/
KillerMan91
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(09-13-2017, 11:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by foxbeldin

This changed a few years ago, now kids begin english in kindergarten, but it's gonna take a decade or two to actually show improvements in the population.

From my own experience being daily exposed to english media in terms of tv, movies, video games, music, internet etc leads to way better english proficiency than just learning the language at school. Reason why people in small european countries with no dubbing industry usually have way better english skills than people in France, Spain, Italy etc. For example I have always been rather bad at foreign languages but learned to speak english semi fluently just because in Finland you see and hear it everywhere. At the same time despite taking german classes for 8 years (from fifth grade to end of high school) I can't speak german for shit.
pswii60
(09-13-2017, 11:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by GSY Miguel

I don't know but I guess we are used to it, since decades films and TV shows are fully dubbed.

Some are really well dubbed like The Simpsons, South Park, Archer, Rick and Morty, Futurama, ... and we even don't get the beeps when they say the F word, it's not censored at all and sometimes the words used in French are harsher.

Friends also had a very good dubbing, but like South Park some VAs wanted more money and left, they had to replace 3 of the 6 main character voices from one season to another :/

We don't in the UK either with the original soundtrack, even with US series. Swearing is allowed on all channels on UK TV (after 9pm).

I always think it's funny how swearing and nudity isn't allowed on US network TV, but torture and violence (I'm thinking the likes of 24 and Criminal Minds here) is absolutely fine. How fucking backwards is that!?
RamaTheVoice
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(09-13-2017, 11:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by pswii60

We don't in the UK either with the original soundtrack, even with US series. Swearing is allowed on all channels on UK TV (after 9pm).

I always think it's funny how swearing and nudity isn't allowed on US network TV, but torture and violence (I'm thinking the likes of 24 and Criminal Minds here) is absolutely fine. How fucking backwards is that!?

Puritan values, if I had to guess.
SilentRob
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(09-13-2017, 11:31 AM)
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As someone who used to watch South Park in german several years ago:

Take this as an opportunity and get used to the original VO via the game. Mane of the names and jokes simply do not work in any other language than the one they were intended for and a dubbed version often misses the nuances or even changes jokes and names outright.

About the issue: Title seems pretty overblown. Yes, Ubisoft is a big studio but it won't pay whatever someone's asking just because of that. We have no idea about the situation - it's entirely possible the company/people responsible for negioating a contract with the french VA asked for unrealistic compensation or other things, we have no idea. Blaming Ubisoft or somehow painting this as "Ubisoft strikes again..." is pretty much unfounded.
azertydu91
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(09-13-2017, 11:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by RamaTheVoice

THIS. A friend of mine back in in high school decided he wanted to learn English on his own terms, so he started watching subbed, then unsubbed TV shows and movies and looking up and translating the lyrics to all his favorite songs, and two years later we were having entire conversations in perfect English. And while I know certain people have a much easier time learning languages than others, that kind of motivation is not something that's really encouraged much.

Also if you are from 91 as your name implies... Hey there Essonne buddy ^^

/derail

Hey there Essonne buddy too, sadly I moved out for school since.

To be fair I've wanted to learn english since I was 4 and was playing Goldeneye on the N64 with the objectives in english.
And if I'm being honest english classes in France are a good introduction you learn a bit of pronunciation and some sentences structures but it never seems to go past that way.

And it's really sad that just by watching series I learned a lot more than my classmates even moreso considering how I slept to barely all my english classes.

I really understood the difference when I studied IT we had a real english teacher encouraging discussion about whatever we wanted as long as it was in english.
It was sometimes really badly worded but he helped us.

So for someone who had the same teacher as me and wasn't learning with anything he'd start to really learn english after his majority.
somecrazymember
Banned
(09-13-2017, 11:36 AM)
Cartman's french voice is unbearable. Most of them are to be honest. VO with subtitles is still the best way to go.

Edit: but yeah it suck though sorry, didnt mean to be an ass
Biocoincoin
Junior Member
(09-13-2017, 11:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by SilentRob

As someone who used to watch South Park in german several years ago:

Take this as an opportunity and get used to the original VO via the game. Mane of the names and jokes simply do not work in any other language than the one they were intended for and a dubbed version often misses the nuances or even changes jokes and names outright.

About the issue: Title seems pretty overblown. Yes, Ubisoft is a big studio but it won't pay whatever someone's asking just because of that. We have no idea about the situation - it's entirely possible the company/people responsible for negioating a contract with the french VA asked for unrealistic compensation or other things, we have no idea. Blaming Ubisoft or somehow painting this as "Ubisoft strikes again..." is pretty much unfounded.

I agree with you on the issue, however regarding South Park's VO, I don't know about German but from what you say the localization seems poor compared to the French one.

I have watched most South Park episodes in both English and French (English after airing in the US and French once available) and the localization work for French VO is excellent and manages to convey the vast majority of the jokes and puns and generally in a (subjectively) funnier way than original since they add some kind of typical French humor and localize some references that would not be grasped by most non-US watchers.

English VO is alright but having this game in French with the original cast was a real game changer for me since I got bored of the previosu game which became a chore to finish, gameplay-wise. Of all localizations, it was surely one to prioritize or at least not fuck up with ;) I don't know if "original local VO cast" was a similar marketing argument in all countries ?
Kouriozan
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(10-13-2017, 08:51 PM)
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Video are finally circulating with the new dub and general opinion is people are finding it absolutely awful.
I can understand it, we kept hearing the same VAs for 2 decades and Ubisoft suddenly change them, if I was a South Park fan I would be devestated too.

What's funny is Ubisoft did all they could to hide this to their fans.

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