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AAK
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by SomTervo

The Americans said "you can't have an army but here have our dystopian capitalist culture" and the Japanese turned the knob to 11.

All while refusing to acknowledge that culture depends heavily on immigration.
perfectchaos007
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:23 PM)
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In Japan working culture its always crunch-time.
mnannola
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:25 PM)
Do they get paid time and a half for that overtime?
Acorn
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by mnannola

Do they get paid time and a half for that overtime?

Lucky if they get paid atall never mind time and a half.
Socreges
Banned
(10-05-2017, 07:25 PM)
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Our main customer at work is a big Japanese company. They are incredibly quick at turning things around (eg, if we require a complicated spreadsheet from them, we'll get it the next day) and place the most ridiculous expectations on us. It's a pretty big strain on us, to always be disappointing them, but I have to remind myself that it's not our fault they have such horrible work-life balance.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
(10-05-2017, 07:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by mnannola

Do they get paid time and a half for that overtime?

lol in Japan you are basically a slave for your company
SomTervo
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by KorrZ

I have a reputation at my employer for being anti-overtime.

I established it immediately and have worked to keep adamant about it.

I've heard some jokes from coworkers from time to time about bolting out the door at the strike of 5 but idgaf.

THANK YOU.

This is the attitude EVERYONE needs to take, ACROSS THE WORLD, to make change happen.

It's not a question of whether working a lot is good or bad inherently. It's a question of mental health and work:life balance.

Research has repeatedly shown productivity and quality of work improves if you don't work overt hours.
BobTheFork
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:27 PM)
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Coming out of school (I finished at 30) I was working 70-80 hour weeks very soon.

At the time I was on contract; They had to pay overtime so I didn't care at all.

I barely slept and was manic but I never thought about how it may be affecting my health.

It lasted close to two years. I don't think I could have done it much longer but once I got going, it just felt normal to me.

Now I work where there is no overtime to be had and no off hours support. I come in when I want and go home exactly 9 hours later.
peteykirch
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by KorrZ

I have a reputation at my employer for being anti-overtime.

I established it immediately and have worked to keep adamant about it.

I've heard some jokes from coworkers from time to time about bolting out the door at the strike of 5 but idgaf.



I left my old job of being a lead bookkeeper because of overtime/over work exertion.

I was responsible for the paperwork M-F, and they had someone part time to work Sat/Sun.

They left, and for nearly 16 months I worked 6 days a week for nearly 60 hours, unable to take my accrued vacation and actually lost it, because no one else at the job could do my job. Even being off Sunday wasn't a breeze, because I knew when I get there Monday morning I'd have 2 days of paperwork to handle because nothing got done on Sunday.

Boss kept promising me that he'd find someone, never did, gave him an ultimatum and just cut it loose after he failed to keep his word. He saw the work was getting done, he didn't see any incentive on getting someone to lighten the load.
ViciousDS
Banned
(10-05-2017, 07:28 PM)
I work 12 hours of overtime every week for the last 5 years.....I'm fucked lol
Hollywood Duo
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:31 PM)
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Toxic work culture really is terrible.

Originally Posted by KorrZ

I have a reputation at my employer for being anti-overtime.

I established it immediately and have worked to keep adamant about it.

I've heard some jokes from coworkers from time to time about bolting out the door at the strike of 5 but idgaf.

Why would you work for free like a chump? I mean...
TyMiles2012
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:31 PM)
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Yet in America, you get chastised for not doing any overtime. No human should ever have to work more than 40 hours a week. I feel very fortunate that my work has off production days that are optional to go to, so I can either use PTO to take the day off or at least get a few hours helping by tidying up the place giving me something to do when I have nothing to do at home, still adding up to 80 hours each 2 week check. It lets me work on my college degree and spend time with friends and family and I can still support myself. Hell, I remember hearing when the hurricanes were going on that entry level fast food workers were being threatened just because they were evacuating. I don't remember which chain it was though.
SomedayTheFire
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:38 PM)
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Yeah I am not about overtime. I'm out the door between half 5 and 6. Which is my finish time.

I've worked overtime before but it has to benefit me. I ain't working for free. I started a new job in June and have done a single day of overtime. Got an extra day off for that though.
SafeinSound
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:40 PM)
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That's insane. And I thought my 110 hours was bad.
nacimento
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(10-05-2017, 07:40 PM)
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Sounds like a relaxed week in M&A.
effingvic
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:42 PM)
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RIP.

Are these companies really that productive with all these people working crazy overtime? Or are they just not being as efficient as they can be? Why not just hire more employees? I just dont get it.
Socreges
Banned
(10-05-2017, 07:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by SafeinSound

That's insane. And I thought my 110 hours was bad.

What
AtomskEater
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(10-05-2017, 07:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by effingvic

RIP.

Are these companies really that productive with all these people working crazy overtime? Or are they just not being as efficient as they can be? Why not just hire more employees? I just dont get it.

I'm sure some people are working long hours to get stuff done or look good for possible promotions, but apparently it's not uncommon for people who stay at work for long hours to just be kind of doing busy work or trying to look busy, and they're really just staying late because the boss is in his office doing god knows what and the convention is that the employees don't go home before the boss does.
cj_iwakura
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:47 PM)
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How was this covered up for FOUR YEARS?
Brazil
Living in the shadow of Amaz
(10-05-2017, 07:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by SafeinSound

That's insane. And I thought my 110 hours was bad.

You were right.

Originally Posted by cj_iwakura

How was this covered up for FOUR YEARS?

The guys who were covering it up did a lot of overtime.
mnannola
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:51 PM)

Originally Posted by Dynamite Shikoku

lol in Japan you are basically a slave for your company

Well seems like an easy fix right? Mandate time and a half after 40 hours and this problem goes away?
Haly
One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
(10-05-2017, 07:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by effingvic

RIP.

Are these companies really that productive with all these people working crazy overtime? Or are they just not being as efficient as they can be? Why not just hire more employees? I just dont get it.

Productivity is less important than perception of productivity.

Itís kind of like, hm, gun culture here in the states. Statistically we know the presence of guns raises the rate of fatal accidents but they still provide the illusion of safety to many people.
sandpiper
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Duo

Toxic work culture really is terrible.



Why would you work for free like a chump? I mean...

Well, it depends on where and what company.

I do overtime all the damn time, but I get 1.5x my regular pay for doing overtime. It's nothing crazy, but a little while ago I did 144 hours of work in 2 weeks - and since overtime is anything over 40, that means I got 64 hours of overtime at 1.5x my regular hourly rate.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
(10-05-2017, 07:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by SafeinSound

That's insane. And I thought my 110 hours was bad.

It is.
eyeball_kid
Member
(10-05-2017, 07:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by SomTervo

Yup.

The Americans said "you can't have an army but here have our dystopian capitalist culture" and the Japanese turned the knob to 11.

I don't know about Japan's historical work ethic, but American companies definitely brought over Japan's work culture in the 1980's when they were seen to be eating our lunch economically, and simultaneously turned the screws on unions.

The U.S., when taking into account hours, overtime, vacation, parental leave, etc. is the most overworked nation in the world. Japan may hit the headlines with these kinds of tragic deaths and these may be limited to certain sectors, but overall Americans have it worse. Even on straight hours worked, we're above Japan.
Wamb0wneD
Member
(10-05-2017, 08:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by eyeball_kid

I don't know about Japan's historical work ethic, but American companies definitely brought over Japan's work culture in the 1980's when they were seen to be eating our lunch economically, and simultaneously turned the screws on unions.

The U.S., when taking into account hours, overtime, vacation, parental leave, etc. is the most overworked nation in the world. Japan may hit the headlines with these kinds of tragic deaths and these may be limited to certain sectors, but overall Americans have it worse. Even on straight hours worked, we're above Japan.

I'm so glad I live in Germany lol...
Everything from 35-45 hours a week is OK. If there's additional hours to be made I can decide If I want to get paid for them or add them to my vacation time. Never had more than 10 hours a week extra though.
Brewster123
Junior Member
(10-05-2017, 08:04 PM)
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Welcome to the NHK...

Seriously Japan's work culture is ridiculous... i can't believe how much they focus on productivity.
gutter_trash
Banned
(10-05-2017, 08:05 PM)
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Japan = Live to Work, Die at Work
Spooky Scary Skeleton
Member
(10-05-2017, 08:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by gutter_trash

Japan = Live to Work, Die at Work

That's east asia's work culture in a nutshell.
entremet
Member
(10-05-2017, 08:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Brewster123

Welcome to the NHK...

Seriously Japan's work culture is ridiculous... i can't believe how much they focus on productivity.

Which is strange since Japanese firms haven't really been innovating as much as they did in the 80s. It's like they assume the same success that brought them here will continue following the same methods. Even after the world has changed dramatically since the 80s.
pablito
Member
(10-05-2017, 08:10 PM)
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Fuck overtime.

My job isn't allowing it and lets us go home an hour early every Friday and still pays us for it.

I love it.
RoadHazard
Member
(10-05-2017, 08:11 PM)
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That's fucked. So glad I don't have to do that. We don't have overtime where I work, it's basically not allowed. If for some reason I need to stay a bit longer one day I'll go home earlier the next day, or if I arrive late I'll stay a bit longer. I just need to do my 40h/week, and can be flexible about how I achieve that.

Here in Sweden it would also definitely be illegal to fire someone for refusing to work for free. Employee protection is very strong here, a full-time employee can basically only be fired for grossly neglecting their duties. It's a bit different if you're paid by the hour, of course.
MutFox
Banned
(10-05-2017, 08:11 PM)
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The longest work day I've ever had was 24 hours straight...
Felt horrible by the 20th hour.
Mr. F
Banned
(10-05-2017, 08:12 PM)
I admit total ignorance, but is the culture showing signs of changing at all with the generational shift?
Sakura
Foreigners: Give them an inch (of animu panties), and they'll take a mile.

DO NOT CONSORT WITH FOREIGNERS.
(10-05-2017, 08:15 PM)
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It's fucking stupid to be honest. Work smarter not harder. But the people here haven't figured that out for the most part. It's all about how many hours you put in. How devoted you look. If there is so much work to do that employees have to work 100+ hours overtime each month, then hire more employees. If you can't do that either then maybe you shouldn't be in business.
This shit isn't even unique to Salarymen. I've done over 120 hours over time in a month at my convenience store job. If I were to do 160 or under hours in a month my boss would ask me why I'm not working very much.
Ultima_5
Member
(10-05-2017, 08:15 PM)
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Iíve done like 10 hrs over overtime in the last two years. I got paid for it though
RoadHazard
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(10-05-2017, 08:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sakura

It's fucking stupid to be honest. Work smarter not harder. But the people here haven't figured that out for the most part. It's all about how many hours you put in. How devoted you look. If there is so much work to do that employees have to work 100+ hours overtime each month, then hire more employees. If you can't do that either then maybe you shouldn't be in business.
This shit isn't even unique to Salarymen. I've done over 120 hours over time in a month at my convenience store job. If I were to do 160 or under hours in a month my boss would ask me why I'm not working very much.

160 hours is just a normal month though (not even that, actually - I think the average per month with 40-hour weeks is something like 167 hours?). But yeah, that overtime is crazy.
Metalgus
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(10-05-2017, 08:20 PM)
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I do about 159 hours of overtime a year, not a month! It is paid at time-and-a-half though so I don't mind.

I worked a bit for a mobile gaming company before the smart-phone era began and I went back to school the month I learned OT wasn't paid. I'm a motivated worker and I'll put it in the hours, but not for free, hell no.
markitrons
Member
(10-05-2017, 08:20 PM)
My wife is doing her surgical residency - she regularly works 12-14 hour days with occasional overnights. Oh and usually half the weekends of the month. Last stretch was 21 days straight of leaving the house at 445 am and getting home at 9pm.

Frankly, I think it's inhuman, and counterproductive. But once this shit gets ingrained in a work culture it seems so hard to get rid of.
Sakura
Foreigners: Give them an inch (of animu panties), and they'll take a mile.

DO NOT CONSORT WITH FOREIGNERS.
(10-05-2017, 08:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by RoadHazard

160 hours is just a normal month though (not even that, actually - I think the average per month with 40-hour weeks is something like 167 hours?). But yeah, that overtime is crazy.

Yea exactly, if I were to work a normal month I'd be asked why I'm working so little.
I'm a part time employee, I go to school full time.

Edit: OT pay in Japan is also shit. It's like, 25% I think, assuming you get paid for it.
Dominator
Member
(10-05-2017, 08:27 PM)
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Since I started my new job in July, I've been working 6 day weeks mandatory. 10 hour days on Monday-Thursday, and 8 hour days on Friday and Saturday. Sometimes I even worked a few Sundays for double pay, but that's always optional. It is tiring with only 54 hours a week even, but I get out at 5:30pm on the 10 hour days so I still have a little time to go out after if I wanted to. It's a pretty hard balance. There's a few days in a row where I'm just tired so I come home, eat, fall asleep by 8pm then back to work again. Feels like I do nothing with my time. That's why I made it a priority to go out a few times a week now.
Akuun
Looking for meaning in GAF
(10-05-2017, 08:30 PM)

Originally Posted by AtomskEater

I'm sure some people are working long hours to get stuff done or look good for possible promotions, but apparently it's not uncommon for people who stay at work for long hours to just be kind of doing busy work or trying to look busy, and they're really just staying late because the boss is in his office doing god knows what and the convention is that the employees don't go home before the boss does.

That's what I've heard too, though I don't even have second-hand knowledge.

I'm under the impression that it's mostly about looking busy and dedicated to your employer, to the point where things like working overtime and not going home until your boss does is culturally considered a norm. People are expected to show that they are "good employees" by staying longer than their normal work hours.

I imagine things like trying to leave on time or leaving before your boss does is just frowned upon as signs of a bad employee. Maybe it's similar to how constantly leaving early, passing the buck, and faking sick days is frowned upon in Western office culture?
family_guy
Member
(10-05-2017, 08:48 PM)
What's going on in Japan? Saw an article about people committing suicide because they couldn't take it anymore at their jobs? Why not just quit?
sixteen-bit
Member
(10-05-2017, 08:51 PM)
Samurai Gourmet on netflix makes retired life look so chill. Is that at odds with the nation's work culture?
DKPOWPOW
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(10-05-2017, 08:56 PM)
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Yeah, that's one big reason I do not want a salary job. If I'm gonna work overtime you better be paying me for it.
KorrZ
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(10-05-2017, 08:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by JoeBoy101

That can cost you a job. Cost me one. But then, any employer pushing everyone for unpaid OT you need to run from screaming.

You're right, and in other cases it can definitely impact you if you're looking to advance quickly in your career and snag those promotions.

For me though, I've always maintained that I'd rather make a decent wage at 40 hours then make a shit ton of money @ 80 hours a week. Personally I just can't do it, if push came to shove I would find work elsewhere.
dark_chris
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(10-05-2017, 08:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Poolman

I'm a fucking mercenary.
I'm not doing a single extra hour unless I'm told I'm getting paid.

I've had some bad rep over the years for being a "clockwork man", but my family time is precious to me.

Thatís exactly how my gf and I are.
While working for a grocery store, they needed her to stay overtime but didnít want to pay her. They told her to clock out but come back. She didnít. He fired her but in the end, got her manager fired for trying to make her do free labor at the job.

For me, I donít do a fucking thing until Iím told Iím getting paid past my work time. If not, Iím out. If yes, Iíll stay behind and keep going. My ďme timeĒ is precious and Iím not gonna squander it away for free labor to anyone.
Randomizer
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(10-05-2017, 08:59 PM)
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I read an interesting fact about Japan's polictal reporting the other day. Since 2010 they have went from 11th to 67th in the press freedom rankings. They are now the lowest in the G7. I assume Prime Minister Abe is responsible. The same for Japan's more apparent denial of WW2 atrocities and the push for a change to their constitution to allow for a military.
matthewuk
Member
(10-05-2017, 09:14 PM)
I like the German attidues, as we know they are very efficient and productive. And they don't have a big overtime culture there. The way they see it is that if you have to work overtime you wasted time during your shift, they also have a saying. Work is work and home is home or something like that, basically they don't think one should take over the other.
GameAddict411
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(10-05-2017, 09:17 PM)
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At this rate Japan will die off literally. They have very old population, and reproduction rates are really low. They have very strict immigration system that makes it almost impossible to immigrant to Japan because of their obsession of the purity of their culture. And now they are overworking people to death, and continuously without improvements.

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