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Strakt
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:36 PM)
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http://www.gamerevolution.com/featur...haping-pay-win

Star cards in Battlefront 2 alter your in-game abilities. For instance, you can equip an ability that increases the amount of damage you can withstand, or one that reduces the cooldown times of your abilities. The quality of these Star Cards is dependant upon their rarity — they're divided into common, uncommon, rare, epic and legendary — while unlocking duplicate Star Cards will improve the quality of the original card. Crafting parts obtained in loot crates can also be used to upgrade existing Star Cards, making them more powerful.



Though loot crates cost 1,100 in-game credits, making them relatively easy to earn by playing the game, it's inevitable that splashing out real-world cash on them will allow players to obtain them quickly while putting in zero effort. When such systems only rewards players with customization options this isn't so much of an issue, but when the abilities unlocked actually impact the way the game is played? Yeah, that's more concerning.

But does this make Star Wars Battlefront 2 pay-to-win? Unfortunately, it seems likely that this could well be the case, as players who pay out for loot crates will therefore have easier access to Star Cards, equipping a variety of abilities that will make them both more powerful and more resilient. Though it remains to be seen just how much Star Cards can change the tide of a match, if you're confronted by an opponent who has decked themselves out in legendary gear, your chances of besting them in a firefight are significantly reduced. Given that such gear is more easily obtainable by spending real money, it's difficult to argue against Star Wars Battlefront 2 being pay-to-win, with Star Cards designed to give players a tactical advantage.

While Star Wars Battlefront 2 has yet to be released, unless the ability to purchase loot crates with cash is removed from the game, it's difficult to see how EA could change the current system without it being pay-to-win. At this point Battlefront 2's loot crate system is designed to influence its gameplay, and those who don't spend money on loot crates will inevitably be left behind when it comes to unlocking high-tier Star Cards. It's always disappointing to see such a system implemented into a retail release, especially one that hinges upon the success of its multiplayer mode. Hopefully its loot crates aren't as pernicious in the full game as they appear to be in the beta.

Edit: We should keep in mind that people were overreacting to Destiny 2's system as well, and that just turned out to be a whole misunderstanding. I think to get a better idea of this system would be to wait until launch to see how long it takes to earn the crates, the different ways of obtaining them, and the loot list vs straight up paying for them.
Mengetsu
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:38 PM)
The cost of maps being free. Sucks but, this is what gaming is now.

Edit: I agree you can still have the boxes in game and should be cosmetic only. I just say it like I do cause it's just ingrained in gaming culture now. I never buy these things and only get it from the game how it's earned for free.
Daffy Duck
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:38 PM)
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No thanks.
Jackstin
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:38 PM)
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Welp. I guess I'm going Nintendo then.
the1npc
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:39 PM)
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I can wait for a sale in that case
Norwegian_Imposter
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:39 PM)
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I do not mind loot boxes for games if IT IS JUST COSMETICS! God I wish companies would just understand that....
Theorry
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:39 PM)
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Lets just wait for the game being released first and we have some days with it to judge it.
Or its like "Destiny 2 is pay to win" all over again.
Not Drake
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:39 PM)
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Loot crates will be the hottest items this Christmas.
Little Old Man
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(10-05-2017, 10:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Little Old Man

Loot boxes. I still feel like I don't fully understand the ins and outs of this system to give a full critique, but I'll just say this: a lot here will just see this as the lesser of two evils (the other evil being map packs, which I agree do split the online community up, it's just less of an issue on multi-million selling titles like this one), because in theory all items can be earned in game (assuming enough time in-game to harvest enough space bucks to buy more crates, and having pot luck to get the item you're after) making them an optional purchase.

Of course that presumes that they are the only two choices to create a post launch revenue stream for the publisher- loot boxes or map packs (and some cheeky companies use both...even Battlefield does this). There will be other options, it's just that they haven't been invented yet/become common place, and in this case, EA knows its a safe choice to use a loot crate system if paid map packs are not going to be a thing anymore (people will buy them in droves, and the system is well known from many other titles), as it requires limited innovation and risk for them as a company, just slap Star Wars items in each crate.

I can't help but agree with Jim Sterling: the loot crate system as concept is gambling, and does rely on the so-called whales to buy oodles of crates (and as he pointed out, its an unregulated market which let's face it, will be seen and utilised by children). You are able to earn everything in game sure, but how long will I have to wait for a particular card/emote/powerup/etc? I could be lucky enough to open up something fantastic day 1, or it could be dozens or hundreds of hours of gameplay to recieve it. That itself incentivises people to start buying crates to just speed up this dull process. Some of these cards will doubtless have fantastic effects in-game, that will really help out, further incentivising cracking crates to get them. It would be mitigated ever so slightly if we find out that unwanted cards etc can be cashed in at a decent rate, that a trading system exists between players for cards of the same rarity, and that items could be purchased directly with space bucks (I think this was announced right?). Even Battlefield only keeps skins and optional melee weapons behind its crate system IIRC. By gaining free map packs, I'm not so how 'costly' the loot crate system will be to my enjoyment of the game, because gameplay effects and mechanics are locked behind it.
As said I'll hold my full judgement until I've seen the final system, but this being EA, and a 2017 game, currently I'd rather just pay for a set of DLC maps.

This is what I put in the main beta thread. Some of the upgrades I've got within the beta have made a massive difference to the usability of classes and weapons. Hopefully we get some more specifics on the system ASAP.
napata
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:39 PM)
I thought we already knew this?
adj_noun
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Not Drake

Loot crates will be the hottest items this Christmas.

Tickle Me Salacious Crumb
Zombie James
Banned
(10-05-2017, 10:40 PM)
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EA fucks up yet another franchise.
CountAntonius
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:40 PM)
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How hard is it to keep it fucking cosmetic?
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
(10-05-2017, 10:40 PM)
I absolutely abhor the idea of consumable items in non-persistent online games.

Hated it in Titanfall, hated it in Battlefront 1, and I'll hate it here.

EDIT: Are these actually consumable? I guess I'm a little unclear on that.
Jawmuncher
(10-05-2017, 10:40 PM)
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Yeah I noticed that playing the beta this week.
Just went oh no
Deeke[VRZ]
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:40 PM)
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Things will change. That's what makes service games so appealing. But I dont think they'll change enough to discourage the main funding source for one of EA's biggest games.

This was clear to me when I saw Star Cards in an early leaked stream.
Nikana
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:41 PM)
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This was the case like 3 months ago wasnt it? We knew the loot crates affected gameplay with certain cards powering up abilities and characters.
Strakt
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mengetsu

The cost of maps being free.

Doesn't mean they should offer P2W items. Microtransactions are fine, but they should limit them to items that don't affect gameplay (Emotes, skins, etc..), especially since PVP is the main mode. I'm not sure how the final release drops are, but from what i played in the beta, star cards do affect gameplay. I'm not going to start assuming anything just yet because after the whole assumption with destiny 2 being p2w, I would much rather wait until people get more hands on time with it after launch
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:41 PM)
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For instance, you can equip an ability that increases the amount of damage you can withstand,

CMON!! This should not exist...
Lom1lo
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Theorry

Lets just wait for the game being released first and we have some days with it to judge it.
Or its like Destiny 2 is pay to win all over again.

Na Destiny 2 you can buy the gameplay related stuff with glimmer ( and you get a ton of Glimmer), it was overblown from people who didnt even play the game. In bf2 you cant do that, you have to rely on the crates
SG-17
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:42 PM)
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No more pay to win than buying the shortcut kits in Battlefield.


Everything can be earned through gameplay without paying anything extra. The crates are just shortcuts.
FinKL
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:42 PM)
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At least they let us know before hand. Will definitely looking into 2005's Battlefront 2 then this winter
Lightning_Roller
Banned
(10-05-2017, 10:42 PM)
And another game goes into the "don't buy" list.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
(10-05-2017, 10:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by CountAntonius

How hard is it to keep it fucking cosmetic?

EA: Okay but we are going to charge a Season Pass instead.
HotchieMotchie
Junior Member
(10-05-2017, 10:42 PM)
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It really feels like every publisher got the wrong message from Overwatch

If all of this shit was just cosmetic, then I wouldn't care. The second it becomes pay-to-win is when I'm out.
ASaiyan
Banned
(10-05-2017, 10:42 PM)
With the game looking better than the last one I knew EA had to put their foot in it somewhere...
Norwegian_Imposter
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by CountAntonius

How hard is it to keep it fucking cosmetic?

This... the way this is carrying on the publishers are cutting their noses off to spite their face because this will only carry on for so long before someone tries to regulate it like gambling that it really is.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
(10-05-2017, 10:43 PM)
On one hand this sucks, but on the other hand this isn't a competitive game.
adj_noun
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(10-05-2017, 10:43 PM)
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With my luck if they ever do make it cosmetic, it'll be rolling for helmetless Stormtrooper heads.
LastGamer84
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(10-05-2017, 10:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mengetsu

The cost of maps being free. Sucks but, this is what gaming is now.

Nope. Other games have done this without pay to win microtransactions.

AAA publishers are making it easier and easier to not buy their games. At this rate I'll be PC/Switch with AA and indies, and I'm okay with that.
Bill R Boggess
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jackstin

Welp. I guess I'm going Nintendo then.

Why?

Nintendo locks content behind figurines - some of which are a serious pain to find in stores.
Eggbok
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Norwegian_Imposter

I do not mind loot boxes for games if IT IS JUST COSMETICS! God I wish companies would just understand that....

That's the problem right there, that's why microtransactions are bs entirely, cosmetics included. It's not that companies don't understand, they understand completely which is why they do it. If people are wiling to pay just to look cooler they'll obviously pay to play better. If you give them an inch the WILL take a mile if it means more money.
Master Yoshi
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(10-05-2017, 10:43 PM)
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atmuh
Junior Member
(10-05-2017, 10:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElBoxyBrown

On one hand this sucks, but on the other hand this isn't a competitive game.

uhm what?
wesleyshark
Banned
(10-05-2017, 10:44 PM)

Originally Posted by Jackstin

Welp. I guess I'm going Nintendo then.

"We've got some lovely amiibo for you..."
KingSnake
The Birthday Skeleton
(10-05-2017, 10:44 PM)
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Sounds to me like a bit of jumping to conclusion. Isn't rather "pay to maybe get a bit better"?
Strakt
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Eggbok

That's the problem right there, that's why microtransactions are bs entirely, cosmetics included. It's not that companies don't understand, they understand completely which is why they do it. If people are wiling to pay just to look cooler they'll obviously pay to play better. If you give them an inch the WILL take a mile if it means more money.

Not really. I don't mind paying for cool skins for a game that I put hundreds of hours into. What I do mind though is paying for the ability to get stat boosts, ability perks, etc..
Marcel
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:45 PM)
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Think of all the valuable time you're saving, fellow gamers!

Theorry
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(10-05-2017, 10:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lom1lo

Na Destiny 2 you can buy the gameplay related stuff with glimmer ( and you get a ton of Glimmer), it was overblown from people who didnt even play the game. In bf2 you cant do that, you have to rely on the crates

Talking about the Tess stuff and the blue mods there. Wich was blown up.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
(10-05-2017, 10:45 PM)

Originally Posted by Jackstin

Welp. I guess I'm going Nintendo then.

Just buying Nintendo exclusives? Cuz NBA is on the Switch. lol
Snkfanatic
Banned
(10-05-2017, 10:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElBoxyBrown

On one hand this sucks, but on the other hand this isn't a competitive game.

What? lol
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
(10-05-2017, 10:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by KingSnake

Sounds to me like a bit of jumping to conclusion. Isn't rather "pay to maybe get a bit better"?

Pay For A Chance To Win
TheSpoiler
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElBoxyBrown

On one hand this sucks, but on the other hand this isn't a competitive game.

If you can PvP, it becomes competitive, and balance becomes an issue.

I remember in the first game when one side had waaaaaayy better ships than the other during the dogfight mode. I wasn't trying to be competitive, but it was so busted that it was plan unfun.
deadscreensky
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:45 PM)
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I'm not defending this in the slightest, but I think it's important to consider the context. Battlefront 1 locked powerful weapons, abilities, and heroes behind an actual paywall, along with post-release maps. I think in the rush to (rightfully) condemn loot box gambling some people lose sight of the fact that Battlefront's DLC model has always been gross and pay-to-win.
SG-17
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(10-05-2017, 10:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by KingSnake

Sounds to me like a bit of jumping to conclusion. Isn't rather "pay to maybe get a bit better"?

More like "pay to have the chance at saving time". A less direct shortcut kit that has been a part of Battlefield since Bad Company 2.
prag16
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(10-05-2017, 10:45 PM)
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While this sucks, haven't we known this or months? Probably the cost of making all the add-on content free. And maybe purely cosmetic stuff wouldn't have brought in enough money in their estimation.

"Pay to win" is a little strong though as others have pointed out. "Pay to have a slightly better chance to win" is closer to the mark. Shitty to do this for a $60 full retail release though, no doubt.
Sephzilla
Member
(10-05-2017, 10:45 PM)
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Yeah these are the one thing that made me wince while playing the beta.

I hate that lootboxes are the new hotness in gaming
blAAAm!!!
Junior Member
(10-05-2017, 10:46 PM)
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i was already on the fence with this being on Origin, but this is over the top BS and I will be passing.
adj_noun
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(10-05-2017, 10:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheSpoiler


I remember in the first game when one side had waaaaaayy better ships than the other during the dogfight mode. I wasn't trying to be competitive, but it was so busted that it was plan unfun.

The A-Wing Apocalypse.
The Xtortionist
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(10-05-2017, 10:46 PM)
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Think increased health is only for starfighters. Kinda sucks, but not sure how much of a difference it will actually make (like how many shots a 40% health buff is equal to).

Pretty sure the best buff you can get for a trooper is -30% ability cooldowns. Nothing that affects max health or damage.

Originally Posted by Rats Off To Ya

I absolutely abhor the idea of consumable items in non-persistent online games.

Hated it in Titanfall, hated it in Battlefront 1, and I'll hate it here.

EDIT: Are these actually consumable? I guess I'm a little unclear on that.

Not consumable. Star Cards are basically perks.

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