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excelsiorlef
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:18 PM)
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So again there's 2 now... some of y'all said you'd need a second... you got it.... Or is it now we're gonna need a third
Bobo Dakes
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by McBryBry

If this is true, fuck him. Absolutely disgusting.
...

And this is what we call a normal reaction.

Be like this person.
Sethista
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

I have said nothing about condemnation here. Outside of a personal admission that I probably won't be able to support their content going forward.

It's clear that a lot of you are more interested in defending an accused man than believing a victimized woman. Almost as if you're concerned this could happen to you at some point.

Again, and It would be helpful if you adressed this point, out of everyone responding to you at least, they all say they believe her. Also, no one is defending the guy, just the process of establishing guilt.
Hari Seldon
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:23 PM)
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Is this the channel that RLM always makes fun of with their nerd crew skit?
Nokagi
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

I have said nothing about condemnation here. Outside of a personal admission that I probably won't be able to support their content going forward.

It's clear that a lot of you are more interested in defending an accused man than believing a victimized woman. Almost as if you're concerned this could happen to you at some point.

I don't actually see anyone defending him. I do see you getting called out for making weird(and dangerous) statements though.
Neece
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volimar

Was she a guest or did she work there?

She won a fan contest to appear as a guest.
Akuun
Looking for meaning in GAF
(10-06-2017, 03:24 PM)
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Why are so many people in power in show business pieces of shit?

I'm inclined to believe her.
Seesaw15
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volimar

Was she a guest or did she work there?


She was a super fan guest.
BatDan
Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
(10-06-2017, 03:25 PM)
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A second woman came out? Well fuck...
We'll see what happens. Possibly Andy being forced to resign.

Originally Posted by Hari Seldon

Is this the channel that RLM always makes fun of with their nerd crew skit?

One of them. There's a lot of these terrible movie panel channels.
McBryBry
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobo Dakes

And this is what we call a normal reaction.

Be like this person.

Holy shit, didn't realize it was so hard for some to realize this lol. Hadn't read the rest yet.


On another note, I don't understand why its so hard to not be creepy around girls who take lewd pictures. Sure, they do that. Kinda Funny had a girl who takes underwear pictures (can't remember her name) and you know what Greg did? He got an interesting discussion going about doing that for a living, what makes her comfortable with it, dealing with fans, etc. It was really cool.

STOP BEING CREEPS.
Westbahnhof
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sethista

Again, and It would be helpful if you adressed this point, out of everyone responding to you at least, they all say they believe her. Also, no one is defending the guy, just the process of establishing guilt.

I'll repeat what I said near the bottom of the last page:
I think it's a semantics issue.

We are equating "believing" with "judging and condemning the accused".
They seem to simply mean "be open for their accusation, don't just disregard it as probably false".

...I think.

Edit: And obviously if this is true he is garbage. Which was the most likely scenario in the first place,but basically became exponentially more likely to be true with the second person speaking up.

Second edit: guess my assumption was wrong?
Last edited by Westbahnhof; 10-06-2017 at 04:09 PM.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
(10-06-2017, 03:26 PM)

Originally Posted by Bobo Dakes

By that logic you're automatically believing the accused if you don't believe the woman.

These aren't people hanging off a cliff asking you to pick one and kick the other down.

No I'm not. Because I'm not making a definitive judgement for either side. Saying that someone might be telling the truth isn't the same as saying they're definitely lying, but if you're saying you 100% believe that someone is telling the truth, you're saying that you believe 100% that the other person did what they were accused of.
excelsiorlef
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Neece

She won a fan contest to appear as a guest.

Imagine trying to fuck your contest winner... Jesus fucking Christ.
Castef
Mambar
(10-06-2017, 03:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by excelsiorlef

Imagine trying to fuck your contest winner... Jesus fucking Christ.

"Big prize!"

Man, that's very bad if true. :(
How About No
Banned
(10-06-2017, 03:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Izuna

It has happened.

I'm not so sure about public reports like this.

is that so
Saturnman
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:00 PM)
Is the dude the one with the big voice in those honest trailers?
Westbahnhof
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by How About No

is that so

False accusations absolutely have happened, but like Izuna, I'm also not sure if any public reports like this ever turned out to be false.
I couldn't recall any.
Inferno313
Banned
(10-06-2017, 04:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nokagi

I don't actually see anyone defending him. I do see you getting called out for making weird(and dangerous) statements though.

Someone saying "I believe her" and then demanding "proof" means that person does not, in fact, believe her.
Baron_Calamity
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Saturnman

Is the dude the one with the big voice in those honest trailers?

I hope not. Love that video series. :(
Count Dookkake
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:04 PM)
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At this point, I am beginning to suspect any man in a position of power, who otherwise couldn't get laid without money or fame.
Vermillion
Member Formerly Known as JokerOfSpades
(10-06-2017, 04:05 PM)
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Please lord, let the CinemaSins guy be pure
shintoki
sparkle this bitch
(10-06-2017, 04:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Count Dookkake

At this point, I am beginning to suspect any man who couldn't get laid without money or fame.

Good thing I'm safe then!

I don't have the fame.... nor money.... nor laid.
Baron_Calamity
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Someone saying "I believe her" and then demanding "proof" means that person does not, in fact, believe her.

Someone can 100% believe what they are saying and still not be accurate. Wrong memory doesn't equal lying.
Count Dookkake
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by shintoki

Good thing I'm safe then!

I don't have the fame.... nor money.... nor laid.

To be clear, though, I should stress that they are not the only scumbags out there. Only a subset.
Westbahnhof
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Someone saying "I believe her" and then demanding "proof" means that person does not, in fact, believe her.

Argh.
So then I'm wrong about the semantics thing, and you think that the accused should be looked at and treated as guilty without any proof?
I thought you just meant we should openly listen to what the victim has to say, but what you're saying really sounds like "guilty until proven innocent".
clearacell
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:11 PM)
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I would wait for more accusations to see if this is a pattern or it could really be a stupid ass mistake. The guy is an awkward nerd, maybe it was a one time thing that he really just needa to apologize for. If its a pattern though, then he deserves backlash, but for now i wont pass judgement on a he said/she said.
Rumblebones
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:13 PM)
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If this is true, as someone who's been watching SJ for almost along as it's been around - this does not surprise me in the slightest. Dude has always had this creepy "nice guy" vibe to him.

If the claim is true, I suspect more will come forward.
Westbahnhof
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by clearacell

I would wait for more accusations to see if this is a pattern or it could really be a stupid ass mistake. The guy is an awkward nerd, maybe it was a one time thing that he really just needa to apologize for. If its a pattern though, then he deserves backlash, but for now i wont pass judgement on a he said/she said.

There has been a second. I think that's good enough to say it's not a one time mistake (which would still be gross and terrible and a crime and sexual harassment).
Inferno313
Banned
(10-06-2017, 04:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by clearacell

I would wait for more accusations to see if this is a pattern or it could really be a stupid ass mistake. The guy is an awkward nerd, maybe it was a one time thing that he really just needa to apologize for. If its a pattern though, then he deserves backlash, but for now i wont pass judgement on a he said/she said.

Sexual harassment is only sexual harassment if you do it a lot?
BTA
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Someone saying "I believe her" and then demanding "proof" means that person does not, in fact, believe her.

It's disappointing how often these threads have to devolve into rape culture 101. Always believe victims/survivors. There's so little to gain from accusing someone of harassment (or worse) and everything to lose, yet I guess we have to hound them for proof because of the incredibly small chance they might be lying.
excelsiorlef
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Sexual harassment is only sexual harassment if you do it a lot?

And people wonder why women don't speak up more.
Fliesen
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by clearacell

I would wait for more accusations to see if this is a pattern or it could really be a stupid ass mistake. The guy is an awkward nerd, maybe it was a one time thing that he really just needa to apologize for. If its a pattern though, then he deserves backlash, but for now i wont pass judgement on a he said/she said.

Nobody is irredeemable. The issue in these situations is that people often either double down (context! witch-hunt!) or go for a non-apology ("i'm sorry if anyone's disappointed in me")

It's not like people can't forgive you if you made a mistake if you:
* are sincere in your apology
* own and denounce your behaviour instead of downplaying it as "joke" or "drunk talk" or "heat of the moment thing" or "locker room talk" - that what you did was not okay, regardless of context or situation.
* behave differently going forward.

A sincere apology (to the person, not "your audience") would be a really easy first step - or at least it should be...

(this isn't specifically about this one case, because repeated behaviour, of course, means you'll have to work much harder to redeem yourself)
Last edited by Fliesen; 10-06-2017 at 04:18 PM.
Inferno313
Banned
(10-06-2017, 04:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by BTA

It's disappointing how often these threads have to devolve into rape culture 101. Always believe victims/survivors. There's so little to gain from accusing someone of harassment (or worse) and everything to lose, yet I guess we have to hound them for proof because of the incredibly small chance they might be lying.

It's funny how bringing some basic-ass 101-level feminism like "believe women" into any male-dominated space, even one that leans towards progressive politics, causes so many heads to fucking explode.
Fliesen
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by BTA

It's disappointing how often these threads have to devolve into rape culture 101. Always believe victims/survivors. There's so little to gain from accusing someone of harassment (or worse) and everything to lose, yet I guess we have to hound them for proof because of the incredibly small chance they might be lying.

aye.
Like - do people really believe the concept of "professional victim" exists?
Believe that anyone would open themselves up for endless amounts of harassment by overzealous fanboys trying to defend some "geeky youtube idol" of theirs.

So much harassment goes unreported, because the likelihood of a false accusation gets way overemphasised.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fancolors

Why so many YouTubers turn out to be shitty people

Lots of people are shitty, but you're more likely to hear about X popular personality being shitty than you are Dave the Smalltown, Nowhere jacuzzi salesman being shitty.
Valdfellgar
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fliesen

Nobody is irredeemable. The issue in these situations is that people often either double down (context! witch-hunt!) or go for a non-apology ("i'm sorry if anyone's disappointed in me")

It's not like people can't forgive you if you made a mistake if you:
* are sincere in your apology
* own and denounce your behaviour instead of downplaying it as "joke" or "drunk talk" or "heat of the moment thing" or "locker room talk" - that what you did was not okay, regardless of context or situation.
* behave differently going forward.

A sincere apology (to the person, not "your audience") would be a really easy first step - or at least it should be...

(this isn't specifically about this one case, because repeated behaviour, of course, means you'll have to work much harder to redeem yourself)

Has anyone accused of this behavior ever actually just said "Yep. I did it. I'm not proud of it, I've grown as a person, and I sincerely apologize for hurting this/these women/individuals"? It wouldn't excuse them, but I could respect someone for having the balls to own up to their mistakes and repent for it.
Inferno313
Banned
(10-06-2017, 04:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Valdfellgar

Has anyone accused of this behavior ever actually just said "Yep. I did it. I'm not proud of it, I've grown as a person, and I sincerely apologize for hurting this/these women/individuals"? It wouldn't excuse them, but I could respect someone for having the balls to own up to their mistakes and repent for it.

Faraci handled his accusations in this way... But then sneakily stayed on the payroll, after announcing that he'd be stepping down, by taking a different job from Tim Leagues under the radar. Hugely disappointing.
TS-08
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:23 PM)

Originally Posted by Westbahnhof

There has been a second. I think that's good enough to say it's not a one time mistake (which would still be gross and terrible and a crime and sexual harassment).

I don't think what he is accused of doing in the OP is a crime.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
(10-06-2017, 04:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Symphonia

Youíre slating the entire games industry as perverts because of a few bad eggs? Good job. This guy is a creep, but not all people are.

With the amount of high-profile people turning out to be complete shitstain creeps, the reaction is understandable.
Random Human
They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
(10-06-2017, 04:24 PM)
I must be dense, but Iím still confused by the idea you can believe a victim yet still demand proof from them. Unless youíre their lawyer and youíre trying to put a case together, that doesnít sound like you believe them at all.
Westbahnhof
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by TS-08

I don't think what he is accused of doing in the OP is a crime.

Is it not? I thought sexual harassment this way would be a criminal offense.
Fliesen
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Valdfellgar

Has anyone accused of this behavior ever actually just said "Yep. I did it. I'm not proud of it, I've grown as a person, and I sincerely apologize for hurting this/these women/individuals"? It wouldn't excuse them, but I could respect someone for having the balls to own up to their mistakes and repent for it.

The main issue here is the fact that actual "harassment" is a criminal offence - so an apology could be considered self-incrimination.
Which is why they rather use vague language like "mistakes" "lack of respect" "misbehaviour", etc.
So even if you'd want to be sincere, your lawyer would probably advise you not to say "i am a harasser of women" - also, a big part of your audience, would read your admission of 'harassment' and, since they believe harassment only starts when you literally grab someone's private parts (to some, it doesn't even start there), would think you've done things you haven't really done.
Like, admit to "predatory behaviour" and people will think you're a pedophile :/
Last edited by Fliesen; 10-06-2017 at 04:27 PM.
Messofanego
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vermillion

Please lord, let the CinemaSins guy be pure

CinemaSins guy is sexist/misogynist ("this scene doesn't contain a lapdance" and "[actress] isn't my girlfriend") but don't know of anything else.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chmpocalypse

With the amount of high-profile people turning out to be complete shitstain creeps, the reaction is understandable.

Is it tho? What's the amount as compared to the total population of high-profile people?
clearacell
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Westbahnhof

There has been a second. I think that's good enough to say it's not a one time mistake (which would still be gross and terrible and a crime and sexual harassment).

Yeah I just read that, I was responding to the OP. Its now on him to respond, he is the boss there so its important for a quite a few people how he responds.


Originally Posted by Inferno313

Sexual harassment is only sexual harassment if you do it a lot?

A pattern makes it more believable that what happened in this accusation could even happen. There is no evidence. I could accuse YOU, right now, of sexually harassing me via private message and I would have had just as much evidence as the woman in the OP.
Last edited by clearacell; 10-06-2017 at 04:31 PM.
TS-08
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:28 PM)

Originally Posted by Westbahnhof

Is it not? I thought sexual harassment this way would be a criminal offense.

While I don't know the law in every State (and I'm assuming this happened in America), I've never heard of a superior in a work environment propositioning a subordinate for a sexual favor falling under criminal laws. Not as described in the OP.

It could run afoul of something like Title VII or the State's own version of the law, which could result in civil liability, but even that would depend on whether this situation meets the definition for various things like employer or employee.
Valdfellgar
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Inferno313

Faraci handled his accusations in this way... But then sneakily stayed on the payroll, after announcing that he'd be stepping down, by taking a different job from Tim Leagues under the radar. Hugely disappointing.

Pretend I don't know who this is Because I don't.

Originally Posted by Fliesen

The main issue here is the fact that actual "harassment" is a criminal offence - so an apology could be considered self-incrimination.
Which is why they rather use vague language like "mistakes" "lack of respect" "misbehaviour", etc.
So even if you'd want to be sincere, your lawyer would probably advise you not to say "i am a harasser of women" - also, a big part of your audience, would read your admission of 'harassment' and, since they believe harassment only starts when you literally grab someone's private parts (to some, it doesn't even start there), would think you've done things you haven't really done.
Like, admit to "predatory behaviour" and people will think you're a pedophile :/

Oh that's true. Jeez that's a big catch-22.
Vermillion
Member Formerly Known as JokerOfSpades
(10-06-2017, 04:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Messofanego

CinemaSins guy is sexist/misogynist ("this scene doesn't contain a lapdance" and "[actress] isn't my girlfriend") but don't know of anything else.

I'm aware of that, but my hope is he hasn't sexually assaulted/harassed anyone. This is depressing, poor woman...
Westbahnhof
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by TS-08

While I don't know the law in every State (and I'm assuming this happened in America), I've never heard of a superior in a work environment propositioning a subordinate for a sexual favor falling under criminal laws. Not as described in the OP.

It could run afoul of something like Title VII or the State's own version of the law, which could result in civil liability, but even that would depend on whether this situation meets the definition for various things like employer or employee.

It's unlawful according to wikipedia.
Unwanted sexual advances in the workplace, that is.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment

Originally Posted by Random Human

I must be dense, but Iím still confused by the idea you can believe a victim yet still demand proof from them. Unless youíre their lawyer and youíre trying to put a case together, that doesnít sound like you believe them at all.

I think I've just been taught to not call someone guilty until the guilt is proven, which is why even with belief there, I want to see proof so justice can take place, if that makes any sense.
It feels wrong to call someone guilty without that.
That's why I think it's great a second person came forward. Terrible that there is a second person, of course.
Last edited by Westbahnhof; 10-06-2017 at 04:35 PM.
TS-08
Member
(10-06-2017, 04:37 PM)

Originally Posted by Westbahnhof

It's unlawful according to wikipedia.
Unwanted sexual advances in the workplace, that is.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment


I think I've just been taught to not call someone guilty until the guilt is proven, which is why even with belief there, I want to see proof so justice can take place, if that makes any sense.
It feels wrong to call someone guilty without that.
That's why I think it's great a second person came forward. Terrible that there is a second person, of course.

That link pretty much says the exact thing that I told you.

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