NeoGAF

Nintendo hasn't provided 3rd parties with tools for online gaming and not for Miis either, kinda sucks for 3rd parties cause Nintendo's own software will always get an unfair advantage that way, guess this explains why Miis aren't supported in MySims

According to EA producer Eric Chartrand, Nintendo hasn't released the necessary tools to put Miis into third-party games yet. If the company wants Miis to become a lasting sticky application, it'd be wise to acclimatize third-party developers sooner rather than later.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?op...1&limitstart=1

*shocker*

I'm pretty sure 3rd parties have the tools for online already. While it wasn't live online, do remember that Elebits had WiiConnect24 support and that was close to launch. I don't think Nintendo is trying to give its 1st party any advantage and purposely withholding the tools. I don't see how this would be beneficial to them.

Originally Posted by EphemeralDream

I'm pretty sure 3rd parties have the tools for online already.

SSX Blur is missing online play so I doubt it

Originally Posted by EphemeralDream

I don't think Nintendo is trying to give its 1st party any advantage and purposely withholding the tools. I don't see how this would be beneficial to them.

the advantage will become alot clearer when Animal Crossing has Mii support and MySims doesn't

Online tools are available.

if that was true, it wouldn't be a sage move. however, at least the online-tools should already be available...

Originally Posted by Link316

the advantage will become alot clearer when Animal Crossing has Mii support and MySims doesn't*

*aha.

I just want face-mapping for my EA games: Madden, Fight Night, SSX, etc. It could work.

Originally Posted by splattergnome

It appears that EA is too lazy to use Google:

http://www.wiili.org/index.php/Mii_Data

Ya, because a 25% complete data structure is information. Give me a break. Nintendo should be providing an entire API that lets you get access to Miis and manipulate them in a variety of ways. Nintendo better damn do this, it's absolutely ridiculous that they're witholding anything from 3rd parties when it comes to this.

If Nintendo continues this kind of segregation between first and 3rd parties, then they really haven't learned anything from the "arrogant" days.

This is what they call a BAD IDEA.

Originally Posted by Omar Ismail

If Nintendo continues this kind of segregation between first and 3rd parties, then they really haven't learned anything from the "arrogant" days.

Sure they've learned something. They've learned that they can sell lots of their first-party software in an environment with little third-party competition, because Nintendo fans don't seem to care about software droughts.

Originally Posted by Chairman Yang

Sure they've learned something. They've learned that they can sell lots of their first-party software in an environment with little third-party competition, because Nintendo fans don't seem to care about software droughts.

Unfortunately Nintendo fans don't equal mainstream. I wrote a whole thing about how Nintendo can turn Miis into a huge new video game icon which will aid in bringing mainstream success, but limiting 3rd parties is 100% AGAINST that concept. BAH!

Originally Posted by Link316

Nintendo hasn't provided 3rd parties with tools for online gaming and not for Miis either, kinda sucks for 3rd parties cause Nintendo's own software will always get an unfair advantage that way, guess this explains why Miis aren't supported in MySims



http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?op...1&limitstart=1

bad nintendo.

I think Nintendo's stance regarding the Mii's is that they're specifically for use in the Wii ......... range of titles. So if that's available to all third parties then they are losing some of the sparkle that that range of titles offer in terms of the character/player relationship.
Not to mention that using Mii's in anything other than games that go by that particular style would look completely out of place.
What Nintendo should develop(or possibly are) is a system using the same techniques behind Mii construction, yet tailored to completely different styles and designs available for manipulation by third parties and their customer for use within their games. Meaning that the Mii range can be left for Wii Sports et al and a completely different character creation tool applied within 3rd party games with character styles and apparels designed by said 3rd parties.

Originally Posted by Chairman Yang

Sure they've learned something. They've learned that they can sell lots of their first-party software in an environment with little third-party competition, because Nintendo fans don't seem to care about software droughts.

Yes, because Nintendo is marketing Wii towards Nintendo fans only.

way to go nintendo!

You have this gen pretty much in the bag yet you still take steps to ensure that your platform will only be profitable for you.

Originally Posted by splattergnome

It appears that EA is too lazy to use Google:

http://www.wiili.org/index.php/Mii_Data
http://www.wiibrew.org/index.php?title=Wiimote/Mii_Data

Exactly. I was browsing that info a couple of days ago.

I wish my boring-ass SAP SDK general ledger info was as nicely presented as that Mii info.. Either the news is grossly inaccurate, or EA devs are pansies (I would discard the latter).

Nintendo is thinking of the children, gotta save them from pedobear.

somebody needs to work up a pedoMii.

Where does it say 3rd parties don't have online tools? Or are you assuming this because SSX isn't online?

Originally Posted by Flo_Evans

way to go nintendo!

You have this gen pretty much in the bag yet you still take steps to ensure that your platform will only be profitable for you.

I thought the party line was "who gives a shit about Miis"?

I don't think they will ever learn. And the mandate they have now from the sales data doesn't give them a reason to change. =(

online tools are there, wii network is not. so i think most developers dont care for the online part because it isnt playable anyways.

Actually, there IS one problem - while the basic Mii information has been discovered, do third parties actually have the APIs to access it from the wiimote (and save it)? I know that Super Swing Gold supposedly let you save profiles to the wiimote, so I would be surprised if the entire expertise of EA hasn't been able to find a way to access and work on the Miis...

It could possibly because EA doesn't want to work with the Miis until they get official permission and information, for all types of legal issues. They may -know- how to use them, but they won't until Nintendo reveals the goods.

very annoying - id much rather use my Mii's in Tecmo's supeer swing golf than the characters they provide.

Originally Posted by Link316

the advantage will become alot clearer when Animal Crossing has Mii support and MySims doesn't

You mean MySims the summer/fall 2007 title and Animal Crossing the late 2007-2008 title?

Is there any proof that they are "withholding" Mii support? The EA guy seems to expect the support to come but Nintendo could still be writing the documentation for it no? I'd really like to see some reasoning that Nintendo is suppressing 3rd party support on the Wii despite greenlighting every single POS game that comes by. Seems like they're taking the opposite approach and having 3rd parties fill in their big gaps.

Does everyone here forget that Tony Hawk's American Sk8land, an online DS title came very closely behind Nintendo's online offerings? I remember hearing news about how online support for Wii 3rd parties was very far behind but it looks like Nintendo is far behind along with them. The online offerings are ambiguous from both sides.

Don't get me wrong, Nintendo's slow uptake of online functionality is inexcusable but this news is so selective. Using single examples to make entire claims is pretty ridiculous persuasion IMO.

Originally Posted by Dragona Akehi

This is what they call a BAD IDEA.

.

Originally Posted by AdmiralViscen

I thought the party line was "who gives a shit about Miis"?

What party is that? I like my little mii :) :lol

Wow, good one Nintendo! :/

Don't give them Nintendo !

It's such a bad idea to let crappy developers do what they want with my Miis.



Brrrrr, I'd feel fouled.

Originally Posted by Dragona Akehi

This is what they call a

fixed?

EA said in an interview - maybe it was for Tiger? - where they said they had in fact received online tools from Nintendo, but it just so happens it was too late in the dev cycle for current games (SSX, Tiger, etc) to implement online... so this wave was out, but next wave of releases should be in.

Nintendo: Making All The Right Moves!

I'm sure Nintendo wants to capitalise exclusively on the Miis. They're a power seller brand now.

Maybe Nintendo is trying to cover up the next Hot Coffee scandal? Add a 0 here, remove a comma there and poof, Mii sex. Lawsuit +10.

Originally Posted by EternalDarko

I think Nintendo's stance regarding the Mii's is that they're specifically for use in the Wii ......... range of titles. So if that's available to all third parties then they are losing some of the sparkle that that range of titles offer in terms of the character/player relationship.
Not to mention that using Mii's in anything other than games that go by that particular style would look completely out of place.
What Nintendo should develop(or possibly are) is a system using the same techniques behind Mii construction, yet tailored to completely different styles and designs available for manipulation by third parties and their customer for use within their games. Meaning that the Mii range can be left for Wii Sports et al and a completely different character creation tool applied within 3rd party games with character styles and apparels designed by said 3rd parties.

That's essentially what's going on with the data stored on the Wiimote; the Mii info is just metadata that stores indexes into an array of assets, and 3rd parties would then replace the standard Mii assets with a bunch of their own that fit the game.

Originally Posted by splattergnome

They may -know- how to use them, but they won't until Nintendo reveals the goods.

I would guess that this is exactly what the issue is. Nintendo needs to get on the ****ing ball on this one.

Originally Posted by OnWarmerMusic

That's essentially what's going on with the data stored on the Wiimote; the Mii info is just metadata that stores indexes into an array of assets, and 3rd parties would then replace the standard Mii assets with a bunch of their own that fit the game.

Interesting, I was not aware of that.

Well, as much as this is a dumb move, i don't think it's that dumb. How out of place would a Mii look in a Madden game? :/

Oh no, the Mii engine is being held from 3rd parties. What will the Wii version of Fight Night be like if I cannot raise my fighters pig nostrils above his eyes, and give him a sideways ponytail?

Originally Posted by _leech_

Well, as much as this is a dumb move, i don't think it's that dumb. How out of place would a Mii look in a Madden game? :/

As been mentioned before and seen in the specs of the Miis in the tech documents I linked to, each attribute of the Miis (skin tone, eye type, glasses, obesity, ect) are just numbers - these can easily be applied to a standard football player model's textures with a little bit of effort. Mii data is not saved as 3d models, but as information which can be applied to -any- type of 3d model (or even 2d object, if they wish).

Nintendo hasn't provided 3rd parties with tools for online gaming

This isn't true

Originally Posted by EternalDarko

I think Nintendo's stance regarding the Mii's is that they're specifically for use in the Wii ......... range of titles.

So you're saying that Nintendo is going to sue 3rd parties that use Mii data? Because if they don't, and the quote suggests that, then Mii data is fair prey, at least in "read" mode.

By the way, devs have reverse-engineered much more complicated stuff in the past, I'm sure using existing Mii data is not what is at stakes. They are probably lobbing Nintendo for a richer set of tools and an extension mechanism so that they can e.g. add their own data (a Mii's own car for Need for Speed).

*Sigh* What advantage does this have? None, so hurry up and let 3rd party's use Mii's.

Originally Posted by Kevar

This isn't true

How do you know?

Originally Posted by Tiktaalik

How do you know?

I'm sure some developer has mentioned it in some interview by now.

If not, well, shit. It's not true. :P

EA said in an interview - maybe it was for Tiger? - where they said they had in fact received online tools from Nintendo, but it just so happens it was too late in the dev cycle for current games (SSX, Tiger, etc) to implement online... so this wave was out, but next wave of releases should be in.

Like this.

Originally Posted by maxmars

So you're saying that Nintendo is going to sue 3rd parties that use Mii data? Because if they don't, and the quote suggests that, then Mii data is fair prey, at least in "read" mode.

By the way, devs have reverse-engineered much more complicated stuff in the past, I'm sure using existing Mii data is not what is at stakes. They are probably lobbing Nintendo for a richer set of tools and an extension mechanism so that they can e.g. add their own data (a Mii's own car for Need for Speed).

I was talking about the artstyle and design of the Mii's being directly identified with the WiiSports and upcoming titles like Health/Music etc. I was not aware of the technical aspect behind the Mii designs as I had not looked into them at all.

But if you're saying that 3rd parties should just take that information and make their own characters from the Mii dataset without Nintendo's permission and expect that Nintendo will be fine with that, then you're mistaken.

ninty is getting on my nerves with this stuff.

_leech_'s Avatar

#38
Well, as much as this is a dumb move, i don't think it's that dumb. How out of place would a Mii look in a Madden game? :/

They don't have to green light their use in EVERY game, but allowing them to be used in something like MySims is just a no brainer. However, the way some are talking in here (if I'm following this correctly) it appears that it is possible to adapt the Mii data to create something that fits in with your game, which would make it something that has many more applications.

This really should be a no brainer for Nintendo, Miis really do interest the casual / non gamer crowd, if my anectdotal evidence is the same elsewhere. I've even had people being turned off from playing other games because they couldn't use their Mii.

I don't want the Miis in the wrong hands :)

Originally Posted by Link316

the advantage will become alot clearer when Animal Crossing has Mii support and MySims doesn't

Which is good, because the MySims are far more interesting and have far more personality than the Miis do.

Originally Posted by arcader

very annoying - id much rather use my Mii's in Tecmo's supeer swing golf than the characters they provide.

...same with Pangya.

Miis in either of those games would have been terrible, and to be honest, I don't want them anywhere near Animal Crossing. Why devolve the AC characters? Miis aren't anywhere near as developed or interesting, design wise. They're great for stuff like Wii Sports or Wii Play, but not for "real" games.