I have no idea how Keighley is viewed on GAF, so flame away if you want.
After listening to his interview on The Full Moon Show where he does a pretty good job of stating how he thinks gaming journalism need to be elevated, rather than just the screenshot, screenshot, bullet points that most previews and coverage of games are. And we all know how pretty much every gaming "journalist" will jump at the chance to goto a dev (and for more money, who can blame them?).
I really wish there was a rag out there like Next Generation used to be that actually looked at the business of the industry, but sadly there is not.
Last edited by chriskzoo; 04-21-2007 at 03:05 AM.
geoff
You're kidding, right??
Joke post?
yes
I thought he came off as fairly arrogant and egotistical in that interview.
All other journalists exist only in your hearts
OK, honestly, I see 3 types of gaming journalists:
1) Guys that work for big newspapers/media outlets that were stuck with covering games (i.e. don't follow the industry except for the big games and big news).
2) Guys that wok for 1up, Gamespot, EGM, etc. that get paid crap and are just waiting to move to a dev for more money (i.e. potential conflicts of interest).
3) Guys like Keighley who act like a journalist and don't seem to want to move to a dev and just have both the depth of knowledge and want to write to cover it properly.
1) Guys that work for big newspapers/media outlets that were stuck with covering games (i.e. don't follow the industry except for the big games and big news).
2) Guys that wok for 1up, Gamespot, EGM, etc. that get paid crap and are just waiting to move to a dev for more money (i.e. potential conflicts of interest).
3) Guys like Keighley who act like a journalist and don't seem to want to move to a dev and just have both the depth of knowledge and want to write to cover it properly.
a gaming journalism thread!
that explains why kobun makes my pulse go fasterOriginally Posted by ShockingAlberto
All other journalists exist only in your hearts
What do movie reviewers call themselves, "movie journalists"? Are there "music journalists"?
His astute predictions lift him above the rest of the pack.
Paparazzi or shit stirrers?Originally Posted by Sho Nuff
What do movie reviewers call themselves, "movie journalists"? Are there "music journalists"?
Dean Takahashi writes some interesting things, especially his reports on the internal dealings leading up to the XBox. He now writes for the San Jose Mercury News ("The Merc"). It's a big paper in the design world, but they have a pretty good stable of writers and cover tech news, including games.
I really have to tip my hat to Chris Kohler. I he doesn't pander like many game journalists do.
I also have to give credit t to N'gai Croal. He's gotten quite a bit of flak here, but every interview i've seen him in shows me that he's not another "how awesome are you?" journalist and is not afraid to ask harsh questions.
I also have to give credit t to N'gai Croal. He's gotten quite a bit of flak here, but every interview i've seen him in shows me that he's not another "how awesome are you?" journalist and is not afraid to ask harsh questions.
Sure there are. Well, Ebert won a pulitzer for criticism. Journalists aren't just guys who dodge bullets in some third-world war zone.Originally Posted by Sho Nuff
What do movie reviewers call themselves, "movie journalists"? Are there "music journalists"?
Personally, I have great respect for editorial columnists and opinion writers. The good ones do a great deal of reporting. They don't just sit on their ass, wait for press releases and dream up things to spout off about, which is what quite a few gaming "journalists" seem to do.
Astute? As in the PSP becoming the iPod of gaming?Originally Posted by typhonsentra
His astute predictions lift him above the rest of the pack.
I like Jeff Keighley, but hes definately not the only "real" game journalist.
Its Geoff and no.
Stephen Totilo
Indubitably!Originally Posted by cartman414
Astute? As in the PSP becoming the iPod of gaming?
Don't forget Ridge Racer PSP being GotY 2005.
Videogame journalism is much like any tech journalism (e.g.. TV's, DVD players, computers, etc.). Main points of interest are: profits/business side of things, release schedules, PR announcements, limited PR that is perceived as a preview/feature, etc. If anything, gaming journalism is the news. And we enjoy that.
Reviews are really the only creative part of journalism and those, for the most part, have been a big checklist. Does it have nice graphics? Check. What about some decent gameplay? Check. Music? Check. etc... It does its job. It informs the consumer everything they need to know about if they wanted to get the game.
Both are very useful to consumers and it gives the game media their jobs. But the media aren't given the opportunity to twist it into some drama or to dig deeper unless the industry gives them those things. There hasn't been enough history or taste to develop to allow the media to grow out of just reporting the news. Still, that isn't an excuse. Maybe they don't have the creative mind for it?
And if by "real", you mean that he's actually not going along with the PR that he's fed or he asks better, difficult questions... Yes... I think Geoff and Luke are probably the best at that. But in order for them to transcend into the next level, they need to take a cue from the people they're interviewing.
I think the "real" journalism that you're looking for does exists in the gaming industry... It's called Game Developers magazine. The more theoretical and different train of thought is coming straight from the creative minds. Now I'm not insulting the gaming media (because I do nothing but view and enjoy their content all the time), but I would say most of the gaming media out there is thinking from the consumer's point of view. They are not asking developers the kind of creative questions that they could if they had a similar mindset. It's because of this that they can't dig deeper. If a journalist could ask all of the consumer-ish questions as well as the more creative/deep questions in an interview, I think it could be really interesting.
Geoff is about the closest I can think of right now...
Reviews are really the only creative part of journalism and those, for the most part, have been a big checklist. Does it have nice graphics? Check. What about some decent gameplay? Check. Music? Check. etc... It does its job. It informs the consumer everything they need to know about if they wanted to get the game.
Both are very useful to consumers and it gives the game media their jobs. But the media aren't given the opportunity to twist it into some drama or to dig deeper unless the industry gives them those things. There hasn't been enough history or taste to develop to allow the media to grow out of just reporting the news. Still, that isn't an excuse. Maybe they don't have the creative mind for it?
And if by "real", you mean that he's actually not going along with the PR that he's fed or he asks better, difficult questions... Yes... I think Geoff and Luke are probably the best at that. But in order for them to transcend into the next level, they need to take a cue from the people they're interviewing.
I think the "real" journalism that you're looking for does exists in the gaming industry... It's called Game Developers magazine. The more theoretical and different train of thought is coming straight from the creative minds. Now I'm not insulting the gaming media (because I do nothing but view and enjoy their content all the time), but I would say most of the gaming media out there is thinking from the consumer's point of view. They are not asking developers the kind of creative questions that they could if they had a similar mindset. It's because of this that they can't dig deeper. If a journalist could ask all of the consumer-ish questions as well as the more creative/deep questions in an interview, I think it could be really interesting.
Geoff is about the closest I can think of right now...
That was a great interview though. :D I had my thoughts about Geoff Keighley but after that interview I gained a lot more respect for the him. It was funny how they talked about the celebrity parties and all sides of the industry.
He is a good interviewer because he comes up with questions on the fly like when he "turned the tables" and ask Insomniac about a PSN game. He brought up his Jaffe interview and said how it caused some controversy. Well no shit it did! Headlines were "Jaffe thinks Blu-ray is unnecessary" That is the definition of shit sirring. I'm glad the PS3 does have Blu-ray!
He is a good interviewer because he comes up with questions on the fly like when he "turned the tables" and ask Insomniac about a PSN game. He brought up his Jaffe interview and said how it caused some controversy. Well no shit it did! Headlines were "Jaffe thinks Blu-ray is unnecessary" That is the definition of shit sirring. I'm glad the PS3 does have Blu-ray!
Word.Originally Posted by Bad_Boy
I like Jeff Keighley, but hes definately not the only "real" game journalist.
Last edited by InterMoniker; 04-21-2007 at 11:40 PM.
Originally Posted by chriskzoo
I have no idea how Keighley is viewed on GAF, so flame away if you want.
After listening to his interview on The Full Moon Show where he does a pretty good job of stating how he thinks gaming journalism need to be elevated, rather than just the screenshot, screenshot, bullet points that most previews and coverage of games are. And we all know how pretty much every gaming "journalist" will jump at the chance to goto a dev (and for more money, who can blame them?).
I really wish there was a rag out there like Next Generation used to be that actually looked at the business of the industry, but sadly there is not.
Definitely not.
Just because others don't have the opportunities he does doesn't mean they're necessarily less "real".
And stop making game journalist threads.
Just because others don't have the opportunities he does doesn't mean they're necessarily less "real".
And stop making game journalist threads.
Word. I've seen others do better with supposedly less.Originally Posted by Ravidrath
Definitely not.
Just because others don't have the opportunities he does doesn't mean they're necessarily less "real".
Jeff Keighly thought Black was a next gen gaming experience. Nuff said.
Gaming journalism is something any 13 year old can do. It requires no credentials, no education, simply some money for games and internet access.
jeff who?
Yes, the last time we had a thread about him he posted in itOriginally Posted by krypt0nian
Does Geoff have a GAF account? I know he's mentioned us in interviews.
STOP LURKING, GEOFFY!
Originally Posted by acidviper
Gaming journalism is something any 13 year old can do. It requires no credentials, no education, simply some money for games and internet access.
I think he's the best on-video interviewer ever (for games), but that's obviously with the help of some sort of talented production team behind him and some good picks on the interviews. What's with the stupid 'real journalism' thing?
Dan Hsu is quite good, although he writes less now that he's the editor in chief.
Adam Sessler is one of the most "in tune" and authentic video game journalists around.
Geoff does a good job. When he gives a video interview I think he brings out the personality out people. He did a great job at E3 getting John Carmack to cut loose when talking about CELL.
The problem with the Video Game industry and journalism is it needs an equivilent to consumer reports. A magazine/website that stays independent from game publishers by buying their own games and reviewing them and doesn't except any form of advertising.
I don't think a total non-advertising model would fly, but if they would refuse any advertising from companies video game related, the credibility factor would be much higher.
Then do random sampling of the user base to get satisfaction levels for individual games. That feebback would be much more useful to video game consumers.
Geoff does a good job. When he gives a video interview I think he brings out the personality out people. He did a great job at E3 getting John Carmack to cut loose when talking about CELL.
The problem with the Video Game industry and journalism is it needs an equivilent to consumer reports. A magazine/website that stays independent from game publishers by buying their own games and reviewing them and doesn't except any form of advertising.
I don't think a total non-advertising model would fly, but if they would refuse any advertising from companies video game related, the credibility factor would be much higher.
Then do random sampling of the user base to get satisfaction levels for individual games. That feebback would be much more useful to video game consumers.
Go watch Sessler's debate with Jack Thompson, after that its hard to call him a journalistOriginally Posted by Brimstone
Adam Sessler is one of the most "in tune" and authentic video game journalists around.
Geoff does a good job. When he gives a video interview I think he brings out the personality out people. He did a great job at E3 getting John Carmack to cut loose when talking about CELL.
The problem with the Video Game industry and journalism is it needs an equivilent to consumer reports. A magazine/website that stays independent from game publishers by buying their own games and reviewing them and doesn't except any form of advertising.
I don't think a total non-advertising model would fly, but if they would refuse any advertising from companies video game related, the credibility factor would be much higher.
Then do random sampling of the user base to get satisfaction levels for individual games. That feebback would be much more useful to video game consumers.
He posts from time to timeOriginally Posted by krypt0nian
Does Geoff have a GAF account? I know he's mentioned us in interviews.
STOP LURKING, GEOFFY!
:lolOriginally Posted by Kobun Heat
yes
Time to look for another job, I guess, seeing as how the one I have doesn't actually exist. Tooo ra ra.
Stephen Totilo
N'Gai Croal
Dean Takahashi
to name a few
N'Gai Croal
Dean Takahashi
to name a few
K is good peoples...BUT CMON!!! He's C "I'll pander for N by way of Wired" Kohler.Originally Posted by DeaconKnowledge
I really have to tip my hat to Chris Kohler. I he doesn't pander like many game journalists do.
Who isn't a real game journalist?
Just wondering...I need to understand the 2 extremes here. The real, and the..."fake" ones.
Just wondering...I need to understand the 2 extremes here. The real, and the..."fake" ones.
andrew rosenblum
By most "in tune" and authentic video game journalist you mean a cracked out fanboy who talks out of his ass with some funny jokes thrown inbtween.Originally Posted by Brimstone
Adam Sessler is one of the most "in tune" and authentic video game journalists around.
Geoff does a good job. When he gives a video interview I think he brings out the personality out people. He did a great job at E3 getting John Carmack to cut loose when talking about CELL.
The problem with the Video Game industry and journalism is it needs an equivilent to consumer reports. A magazine/website that stays independent from game publishers by buying their own games and reviewing them and doesn't except any form of advertising.
I don't think a total non-advertising model would fly, but if they would refuse any advertising from companies video game related, the credibility factor would be much higher.
Then do random sampling of the user base to get satisfaction levels for individual games. That feebback would be much more useful to video game consumers.
John Carmack cutting loose on the Cell is bad gaming journalism IMO. He's just afraid of it :P
<- n'gai croal and his ilk ---------------------------------------------------------- folder ->Originally Posted by Fight for Freeform
Who isn't a real game journalist?
Just wondering...I need to understand the 2 extremes here. The real, and the..."fake" ones.
there's your continuum
N'Gai let a co-worker buy a GC to play NHL games on it...I mean...what kind of "gaming journalist" allows THAT to happen?Originally Posted by Odysseus
<- n'gai croal and his ilk ---------------------------------------------------------- folder ->
there's your continuum
:P
He managed to make himself look even worse than Thompson and that's a feat.Originally Posted by grandjedi6
Go watch Sessler's debate with Jack Thompson, after that its hard to call him a journalist
To be fair, I think Adam just wanted to beat on him, which is entirely human, after all he does play videogames.Originally Posted by probune
He managed to make himself look even worse than Thompson and that's a feat.
Geoff is definitely one of, if not THE best in the industry. He is 100% professional, and represents the industry better than anyone else out there, in the way it should be represented.