Cliffy B.'s brother explains his fears of Nintendomination

[Father_Brain]

Posted on N'Gai Croal's blog. I admit to enjoying these console war threads more than I should, so I'll just leave it to the rest of GAF to cheer him on, tear his argument apart, or whatever you prefer.

My brother Cliff and I have been into games long before he ever created Gears of War. He and I played through the original Zelda together and I remember having tournaments with him where we'd play the original Nintendo Ice Hockey game. I liked to stack my team with the fat guys because they had a booming shot that could score from anywhere and were really good at checking. Cliff went the skinny guy route and tried to skate circles around me. But the times, they are a-changing. If Nintendo has its way, young males will no longer be the dominant segment of the console audience--and this transition appears to be happening faster than I expected. The other day I was in Target looking to pick up some games when I saw an older woman--very likely a grandmother--waiting for the clerk's attention. She wanted him to get her a couple of games from inside the locked glass cabinet. When he asked her which ones, she stated Cooking Mama and Wii Play. I could barely stifle a groan. Don't get me wrong; I think it's cute that someone who likely had no idea what a video game was would suddenly plunk down her Social Security money so she can cook virtual meals, play a rousing game of table tennis and shark her little grandchildren out of their milk money in billiards. But honestly, I had refused to believe that grandmothers were buying these things as so many news reports have claimed until I saw it with my own eyes. My story may be anecdotal, but the plural of anecdote is data, and there are more than enough news stories on this topic to suggest that this phenomenon is real. What's more, Nintendo has the sales figures to back up its hype. The NPD sales figures since November have been troubling to me as a hardcore gamer who loves new IPs and in-depth experiences. The Nintendo Wii has built up a ton of momentum in 2007, and despite the fact that it features an internal architecture that maxes out graphically around where the original Xbox did, it has quickly become the darling of the non-gaming press. There have been umpteen stories about the scrappy little Wii wooing non-gamers and bringing in hordes of new converts to worship at the altar of Mario. I'm not saying that the videogame industry shouldn't strive to bring in as many new people as possible. It most definitely should, because new gamers mean a nice, healthy business. My problem is what this new crowd appears to be drawn to. Games like Wii Sports, Wii Play and Cooking Mama have become some of the biggest sellers, and that is what has me worried. If these are the type of games that become blockbusters, then you can count on other gaming companies who cater to the more hardcore gamer--aka me and the milions of others who've been driving this business--to promptly change direction. If we've learned anything about videogame companies, it's that they all are quick to follow each other if one is successful with something. I mean, Sony already imitated the Wii a bit with their Sixaxis controller; Microsoft followed Sony with their own EyeToy-like camera, albeit far less successfully; and Sony is now trying to replicate some kind of online service a la Xbox Live. If Nintendo winds up outselling the 360 and the PS3 by a wide margin, how soon will it be before we gamers are using the Sixaxis to chop up onions with in Metal Gear Mama? How long before we're frantically swinging waggle remotes for tennis, bowling and golf in Halo Sports? Will games like Halo and Gears of War ever go away? Hell no. But publishers aren't stupid. They're going to go where the majority of the money is and if people want to play the WarioWare mini-games more than the meaty experiences that hardcore gamers love, you're inevitably going to see a corresponding shift in development. Publishers are in the business of making money, so if they can spend six months or a year developing a mini-game package for five-year-old technology and make more profits than they would by spending 2-3 years crafting a long and detailed experience, you can bet your Wiimote that that's exactly what they'll do. If casual games become the industry's primary money-making vehicle, these mini-game collections and more casual games could wind up completely redefining the market. I don't think we're far off from the day when Hannah Montana Wii and Wii Sports 2 dominate the NPD charts. And as soon as that day comes, why would publishers want to continue to the time and effort to develop an in-depth, cinematic experience when they could slap together a bunch of mini-games with waggle and make just as much money, if not more? Remember, gaming is a love for you and me, but it's ultimately a business for these publishers and developers. So while the business of the Wii has great for Nintendo--surprise, surprise--and a handful of risk-takers like Ubisoft, it's thus far been ugly when it comes to the experiences beloved by core gamers like myself. The Wii has been chock full of mini-games, PlayStation 2 knockoffs and PSP ports. Yes, there has been The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, but not much else in terms of lengthy, in-depth experiences. As for new intellectual properties, they've been pretty much few and far between, unless you consider Wii Sports and Wii Play new IPs; to me, they're more tech demos than anything else. At least the PS3 has Resistance and MotorStorm, with Lair right around the corner. The 360 has Gears of War, Viva Pinata and Crackdown. But for the Wii, most third parties would rather take the easy way out and continue to port older games with the waggle tacked on than devote the time and resources to creating great new experiences. The fact that the PS2 is still going incredibly strong isn't going to help the situation either, because it and the PSP will provide the Wii with an endless supply of ports for the Wii instead of forcing publishers and developers to think of new and in-depth experiences. I'll repeat this again: I am not saying that the more hardcore games are going to die out. Smart developers and publishers will realize that they can make a mint off the hardcore, especially if more developers move towards the quick, jump in-jump out type of experience that many Wii and DS games offer. But they will be in the minority. Valve, Epic and others won't turn to making mini-game compilations, but I can definitely see companies like EA and Ubisoft realizing that they don't need huge development teams and hundreds of people working on a game to make a ton of cash in the land of mini-game moneymakers. It's like suddenly discovering that business plan behind McDonald's is applicable to video games. Some will likely argue that these more casual games are a gateway drug for new users. They'll claim that we should be happy because it will bring a whole new group of people into gaming. I find it hard to believe that something like Wii Play could lead to someone like the little old lady I saw in the store playing Metroid Prime 3. I just don't see it happening. These same people didn't jump into hardcore games before the Wii, but they're suddenly going to do it now because they had some fun playing virtual bowling? I seriously doubt that. She's not going to go from creating a meal in Cooking Mama to saving Zelda. She's never going to defend Sera, guide Reggie Bush into the end zone, or venture into Liberty City. And should the product portfolios of major publishers become a zero-sum game, her tastes will represent a direct threat to my longtime hobby. I sincerely believe that bringing new people to video games is a good thing. I like seeing the business continue to grow and be even more successful, because I'm old enough to remember the videogame industry crash between the Atari 5200 and the Nintendo Entertainment System. But ultimately, going more mainstream can have unintended consequences--ones that could negatively impact the breadth and depth of the kinds of games that I love, as do millions of others. I think Mike Myers' Wayne Campbell said it best in "Wayne's World" when he was talking about that tool Benjamin Kane, played so memorably by Rob Lowe. "It's like he wants us to be liked by everyone. I mean Led Zeppelin didn't write tunes everybody liked. They left that to the Bee Gees." That statement could very well apply to the Wii and its software lineup. Me? I'll take "Kashmir" over "Staying Alive" any day of the week.

[levious]

but what does John Stamos' brother think about Nintendomination!?

[Amir0x]

Sounds about right.

[Firestorm]

I only read the bold text... but:

I don't think we're far off from the day when Hannah Montana Wii and Wii Sports 2 dominate the NPD charts.

Far off? These days started even BEFORE the Wii.

[Threi]

ROUND 2.

FIGHT!

[krypt0nian]

[Dali]

but what does John Stamos' brother think about Nintendomination!?

My thoughts exactly. This guy sounds like the Paris Hilton of gaming (only to a much lesser degree).

[Y2Kev]

Is development a zero-sum game?

[Jenga]

How do you pronounce N'Gai croal?

[Black_Ice]

I agree.

Metal Gear Mama, Halo Sports.

[WickedLaharl]

his fears are not unfounded

[ShockingAlberto]

Oh noes, a world where shovelware sells well?

THIS COULD ONLY BE NINTENDO'S FAULT.

[Segata Sanshiro]

Hunh. So that's why those nice boys at Led Zeppelin were never able to make the big time.

[krypt0nian]

Kev, I <3 your new avatar!

[borghe]

Cliffy B must have been talking about Gears of Sports while at the bar one night.

so basically just more "Oh no, I'm no longer the driving force behind the industry. It won't cater directly to me anymore" whining. Gotcha.

[OuterWorldVoice]

My thoughts exactly. This guy sounds like the Paris Hilton of gaming (only to a much lesser degree).

Does that mean that non-developer opinions are worthless?

I would have thought that the opinions of educated consumers would be particularly interesting on a video game forum.

[Bluemercury]

Well he can always do a space marine game for the wii but he wont, his loss.....

[aeolist]

If Nintendo has its way, young males will no longer be the dominant segment of the console audience

Oh thank god

[fernoca]

Nah!
Sounds really close-minded..

Oh no! People are buying "non-games"

Even if Cooking Mama sells 200 million copies, that's not going to stop Halo 3 from selling 5 million copies (at least)..
So I don't know why he's so worried..

For someone that claims to be "hardcore" he's more like "softcore"..

[radioheadrule83]

I've seen Dark10x post similar fears. While I understand that both are worried about the type of games they love being threatened, I think it's an overreaction. Good, big games will always be around.

[Y2Kev]

Kev, I <3 your new avatar!

Thanks!

Young males will always dominate I think. Unless everything becomes the Sims and Bejeweled.

[Razoric]

My brother thinks PSP is hurting gaming.

[Vyer]

I only read the bold text... but: Far off? These days started even BEFORE the Wii.

Exactly.

The fundamental flaw in all these Chicken Little tirades is the simple fact that the gamer that now exists to play the Metal Gears, Zeldas, Metroids, Halos and Final Fantasies is NOT going to suddenly care less about those games.

'Cliffy B.'s Brother' states pretty clearly that the minigame user won't suddenly become the Metal Gear user. This works both ways. I actually think that is more likely than the Final Fantasy user suddenly wanting to only play minigames.

It just goes to show that even famous Game Designers (brother) are human, regular forum folk just like you and me.

[KTallguy]

Publishers are in the business of making money, so if they can spend six months or a year developing a mini-game package for five-year-old technology and make more profits than they would by spending 2-3 years crafting a long and detailed experience, you can bet your Wiimote that that's exactly what they'll do.

...why would publishers want to continue to the time and effort to develop an in-depth, cinematic experience when they could slap together a bunch of mini-games with waggle and make just as much money, if not more? Remember, gaming is a love for you and me, but it's ultimately a business for these publishers and developers.

Exactly mirrors my point of view. EXACTLY.

I don't mind Wii, and I don't mind these minigames, or waggle, or whatever. But it's scary to imagine a game market where this is all that's out there. Thankfully there are still some people in the industry who are willing to gamble on new things.

The fundamental flaw in all these Chicken Little tirades is the simple fact that the gamer that now exists to play the Metal Gears, Zeldas, Metroids, Halos and Final Fantasies is NOT going to suddenly care less about those games.

Sure, but as the costs to make games that are impressive to the core gamer rise, it's possible that companies simply won't find it profitable to cater to that market anymore.

[nubbe]

I see Cooking Mama and Eye Traning games as the salvation. Those kind of games are dirt cheap to make and will give extra fule to found massive games.

Maybe we will get summer blockbuster games instead of cramping everything in Q4

[AppleMIX]

I could see EA making some cheap/quick mini games to earn some quick cash.

However, major developers who actually give a damn about what they put out will chose the console(s) that best fits the project's needs.

[GhaleonEB]

Sounds about right.

Yeah. I have many of the same concerns, but I think there will be enough content aimed at me that I'm not too worried, even if it's in the minority. Games like Halo and Gears of War will always sell, despite a crowd of minigame fests.

[Grecco]

Why are we asking Cliffy Bs brother for opinions on the gaming industry?

Its like asking Sylvester Stalones brother on Aciton Movies. Or Cal Ripkens Brother on Baseball.

[E-phonk]

developers won't make cinematic experiences anymore? Good, it's about time they started concentrating on making games instead of trying to make "cinematic experiences" that couldn't even compete with direct-to-video if they would be films.

[krypt0nian]

Yeah. I have many of the same concerns, but I think there will be enough content aimed at me that I'm not too worried, even if it's in the minority. Games like Halo and Gears of War will always sell, despite a crowd of minigame fests.

I feel the same way and I own one of the lil ****ers.

[_leech_]

I agree with Cliffy B.'s brother.

[AdmiralViscen]

1. What makes his opinion more valuable than Drinkys?
2. Cooking Mama didn't do well.
3. Did fighting games and platformers kill all other genres in the early 90s?
4. Wii won't outsell PS360 at the end of it all.

[Dali]

Does that mean that non-developer opinions are worthless? I would have thought that the opinions of educated consumers would be particularly interesting on a video game forum.

No it means that Cliffy B's brother instantly has a level of celebrity not because of any skills or accomplishments of his own, but rather by the grace of his younger sibling.

[Peru]

It's a ridiculous, unfounded, and unrealistic perspective in every way.

[Xisiqomelir]

How do you pronounce N'Gai croal?

ɛngɑi kɹoal

[Threi]

Thankfully there are still some people in the industry who are willing to gamble on new things.

I feel the same way for this sentence.

[levious]

Thankfully there are still some people in the industry who are willing to gamble on new things.

I thought Nintendo was the one that gambled on something new?

[civilstrife]

This is beyond stupid

[skip]

How do you pronounce N'Gai croal?

"en-guy crow-al"

[MasterMFauli]

Epic games like Zelda wont die out just because simpler games are more successfull.
Guess what, Tokio Hotel ist "teh shi**" but it´s successful. Yet, other "good" bands are profitable as well.

@Cliffy B and brother:

[Mrbob]

At least Sony and MS have long term plans for their systems at the moment, so it'll delay which may be the end of console gaming as we know it after they pump out their new systems in 5 to 7 years. Waggle is in. Casual is in. Have fun guys, I'll be back to PC gaming.

[Merovingian]

This is exactly how i feel.

And everytime i see some guy around here all happy that the latest Cooking mama, non game trash is selling shit ton, i feel like choking a *****. Why the **** are you happy man?

*shrugs*

[Segata Sanshiro]

I wonder if I whinged this much when they more or less stopped making shmups, AAA side-scrolling action games, and adventure games.

Oh wait, I suppose I did. Ehn, carry on.

[Draft]

That's some real talk, right there. Dark days ahead for the core gamer. The Nfans, they're flush with victory now, but just wait until the next Zelda is a series of bomb tossing and fairy catching mini-games.

I suppose it's a good thing 2007 is turning into such a great year for games. Probably the last one we'll see for a long time.

[borghe]

I would have thought that the opinions of educated consumers would be particularly interesting on a video game forum.

calling this educated is a far stretch of the term. Kojima, S-E, Epic, IGA, Rockstar, Blizzard, Id, or the plethora of other hardcore game companies out there aren't going to turn around and focus the majority of their development muscle behind cooking Mama knockoffs solely because it is selling well. One thing people continue to MISS is that these games are CHEAP to make with LOW OVERHEAD in development costs. Anyone who thinks they are going to break up a 150 person development team to put together a game that requires a staff of 20 is an idiot. Are EA and Ubi going to pursue these types of games? Certainly. But does that mean the Splinter Cells, Maddens, C&Cs, R6es, GoWs, etec are going to disappear? Did the arthouse flick disappear when studios realized they could make $1B worldwide on movies? Did Scholastic stop publishing pop-up books when they saw books about boy wizards sell hundreds of millions of copies?

[explodet]

... Cooking Mama one of the biggest sellers? He calls it a blockbuster?
Did I miss an NPD thread?

I'm not saying his argument is invalid, far from it. Just sounds like a strange game to include.

[Tieno]

It's like suddenly discovering that business plan behind McDonald's is applicable to video games.

That's a pretty good quote.

[PkunkFury]

I think Miyamoto's wife would object to Cliffy B.'s brother's comments!!

but seriously, this vision of the industry being "ruined" is so dumb. The market will equal itself out, and each type of game will be produced as much as its audience is able to handle. This is how markets work. People who take up this idea fail to think back to all of the "hardcore" gems that bombed hard last gen. Where were all of the hardcore gamers when Okami, F-Zero GX, Ico, Shadow of the Collossus, Beyond Good and Evil, etc. bombed??

The truth is, there aren't enough people buying hardcore games or games as art to support every developer in the world making these sorts of games and only these sorts of games. As developers diversify their output, more people will get to play the games they want to play, and less games will die at the hands of an audience oversaturated with product. And yes, eventually the tastes of different audiences will cross. People who have played some sort of game are more likely to jump to the "hardcore" games than people who don't game at all. We were all casuals at one point.

also, what has Cliffy B.'s brother done?

[Nolan.]

But games like Happy feet and Cars have been selling like the ones he mentioned even before the wii. Though I do understand what he's saying in terms of the Wii encouraging that route to become abundant. However if there's a market for games like that to stay in the chart continuously it could also pay towards other projects that are more risky projects. So maybe the two could co-exist.

[JohnsonUT]

Exactly mirrors my point of view. EXACTLY. I don't mind Wii, and I don't mind these minigames, or waggle, or whatever. But it's scary to imagine a game market where this is all that's out there. Thankfully there are still some people in the industry who are willing to gamble on new things. Sure, but as the costs to make games that are impressive to the core gamer rise, it's possible that companies simply won't find it profitable to cater to that market anymore.

If everyone is saturating the market with mini games, then the company that caters to the hardcore game will be the one making profits.