Official Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix thread

[Elbrain]

http://www.1up.com/do/media?cId=3158723&sec=IMAGES

Damn can't wait to see Vega up and running!

[Hunahan]

I get what you're saying, but that's still adding frames. If the original code called for 1 frame to be held for 30ish counts (which is what occurs for the fierce hadoken), making his gi or headband flap, would technically be changing the frame call outs from 1 frame to however many it would take to animate holding the pose. It would be cool, but keeping strictly to what they've said they're doing to the game (not altering gameplay/framecounts), this it out of that scope. But they've suprised us before so you never know.

Yeah, poor choice of words on my part. It is technically adding frames, but what I meant to convey is that it's not adding frames that would either a) significantly increase workload or b) change the way the game plays.

By the time they're fine with programming in all of this "rebalanced mode" content with new moves and combos and all that sort of thing, I can't see why it's really that hard to modify the line of code where it calls for one frame for 30ish counts to be two frames alternating for that same 30ish count.

And certainly by the time they've redrawn all their art outsets entirely, they could've, you know....used that time more productively it seems...

Oh well.

Guess we'll see what happens.

[Toonami 99]

for crying out loud. Why are the only videos out featuring only Ryu and Ken. Cant people at least pick other characters?

[Rapping Granny]

Do Pata Want!

[Kintaro]

for crying out loud. Why are the only videos out featuring only Ryu and Ken. Cant people at least pick other characters?

Because that's the only characters they're letting people play. Or are actually playable at all at the moment (probably not).

[Dark Octave]

I just noticed how they changed the soldiers so they don't all have blond hair and blue eyes

Which goes against every Capcom design rule ever.

Please don't get me started.

[toneroni]

hmm so which one will have more players online? This or SF4?

[BitchTits]

for crying out loud. Why are the only videos out featuring only Ryu and Ken. Cant people at least pick other characters?

Because these are shots from the imminent beta release?

[Gagaman]

The only animation that really stood out as looking really wonky in that video was the main stance, which appears to animate too fast or is missing some frames, making Ryu wobble like crazy when he's supposed to be just pacing up and down. Once the characters start jumping around and throwing attacks they don't look so bad, though. Maybe it's on a turbo setting and it's ruining the stance animation.

[Eiji]

I just noticed how they changed the soldiers so they don't all have blond hair and blue eyes

[camineet]

You're looking at it right, it's very funny too.

Indeed


Other than the new '512' under the cockpit, I prefer the old F-16 MUCH better, and the old backgrounds in general. Although the new backgrounds look super-sharp, they also look like supershit in most cases. With the possible exception of Ken's boat stage.

It's odd, I like the old Guile background. Especially the detail on the plane (from the small pics, small HD pic also).

Yep.

It's not really odd at all, I think it's how many people see it. I have a feeling this is going to be a repeating theme for almost everyone's background, and almost everything/element in every background too.

[KTallguy]

Saw the Gametrailers videos.

Looks great EXCEPT for the standing animation. Something is off about it.

I've been playing ST every day lately, and it looks exactly the same, but with awesome graphics, which is exactly what I wanted.

[EekTheKat]

I haven't played SF2 in years but...isn't the reason why the main stance is so fast in these vids is that they're playing on one of the turbo modes?

I think it's looking pretty good, but my expectations haven't been all that high to begin with honestly. Least I wasn't expecting this to be the second coming or something like that.

This will be a nostalgia purchase but not really much more than that. It'll make for an interesting transition game into SF4 whenever that hits the home consoles.

[TAJ]

Now that I've had a while to let the changes sink in, I still fucking hate them. I don't even see the point of this project now. It's like hiring ILM to do photoreal CGI of Supermarionation-style puppetry instead of just using ghetto puppets.

[SapientWolf]

Saw the Gametrailers videos. Looks great EXCEPT for the standing animation. Something is off about it. I've been playing ST every day lately, and it looks exactly the same, but with awesome graphics, which is exactly what I wanted.

Something is off about the animation in general. It looks a little stiff and jerky.

[g35twinturbo]

goddamnit every time I see this avatar I have to stop and look.

of course!

its the awesome Elena. If anyone wants to see me I'm here Wednesdays and Saturdays

[milkham]

I also just noticed how they changed the air-intake of the F-16, it no longer looks like the signature F-16 intake anymore: So with two intakes (like the EuroFighter) it must be a new jet with two engines ?? Unless I'm looking at it wrong....

Dude now that you pointed that out I can't stop looking at it, my eye goes right to it.

[UC1]

Saw the Gametrailers videos. Looks great EXCEPT for the standing animation. Something is off about it. I've been playing ST every day lately, and it looks exactly the same, but with awesome graphics, which is exactly what I wanted.

This is what I noticed as well. The standing animation definitely needs some work.

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Which goes against every Capcom design rule ever.

You mean the "Japanese anime/manga draw the majority of white westerner stereotypically close to the ideal old German Aryan view of blond hair blue eyes" rule.

[turk128]

Okay, saw this badass turnaround over at... http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_image.html?G=7945&N=7


That is what I expect from SF2HD; consistent style and structure. Would have been on the boat day 1 if they had kept it at that level of quality with the 1st sneak peak to now. I've yet to see any art/screen shot that comes close to this.

[bigben85]

Okay, saw this badass turnaround over at... http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_image.html?G=7945&N=7 That is what I expect from SF2HD; consistent style and structure. Would have been on the boat day 1 if they had kept it at that level of quality with the 1st sneak peak to now. I've yet to see any art/screen shot that comes close to this.

.....looks ok

[Jamesfrom818]

This game looks awesome in pictures but the movement is just so jarring. Looks way too jerky for a nice looking game.

[outsida]

Wow this game looks amazing.... I can't wait for it to drop

[skyfinch]

I also just noticed how they changed the air-intake of the F-16, it no longer looks like the signature F-16 intake anymore: So with two intakes (like the EuroFighter) it must be a new jet with two engines ?? Unless I'm looking at it wrong....

Takes more polygons to make things rounded.

[DaCocoBrova]

^

The hell...?

[mosaic]

I know I'm in the minority, but I actually think the "lesser color" sprites look better... can't quite put my finger on it: brighter, more energetic, more animation-style.

It's too bad they aren't coming up with a way to double the number of animations frames. Looks choppy. Would benefit highly from SF3/Garou levels of smooth.

[Icarus]

Nah, you're not in the minority at all. The new art does look better.

As for people bitching the animations, you all need to be slapped. That's exactly what Super Turbo has always looked like.

[kurahadol]

Nah, you're not in the minority at all. The new art does look better. As for people bitching the animations, you all need to be slapped. That's exactly what Super Turbo has always looked like.

Too bad this game is supposed to be Super Turbo with IMPROVEMENTS

[Jim]

Nah, you're not in the minority at all. The new art does look better. As for people bitching the animations, you all need to be slapped. That's exactly what Super Turbo has always looked like.

It's not, really. It's not the animation frames that are wrong, it's the way they are presented while animated. They seem a tad jittery right now and not as solid.

Not the best vid, but here's the arcade one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeJY_...eature=related

and then watch HD Remix on the same stage, same characters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRVPN70OEGM
Also notice the background characters have 1 less frame of animation

[FightyF]

It's not, really. It's not the animation frames that are wrong, it's the way they are presented while animated. They seem a tad jittery right now and not as solid. Not the best vid, but here's the arcade one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeJY_...eature=related and then watch HD Remix on the same stage, same characters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRVPN70OEGM Also notice the background characters have 1 less frame of animation

Definitely looks like the game has trouble panning the background up and down, left and right . Also when Ken jumps and has a couple of animations, the singular frames don't seem to move up and down smoothly. Probably some optimization issues, my guess.

[Jirotrom]

Too bad this game is supposed to be Super Turbo with IMPROVEMENTS

they were never going to add more frames... Also the game is in beta correct... its not like its done.

[UC1]

It's not, really. It's not the animation frames that are wrong, it's the way they are presented while animated. They seem a tad jittery right now and not as solid.

While it doesn't affect gameplay, the standing animation is nothing like the original

[Tenbatsu]

Still need a lot of polish.

[Alcahest]

UC1, thank you.
Ryu looks epileptic on the remake. something's definitely wrong with the animation.
besides am i the only one who hates the cheap song's remix (in Ryu & Ken vid, it seems as though it's been remixed with a bontempi ffs).
why the heck did capcom need to outsource that too.. :(
A Japanese SSFIITHDR would have looked nothing like this far shure. screw you next gen :/

[UC1]

Note that the gif I made is from the Ryu vs Ryu video on gametrailers.com. It seems to be really noticeable in that video, but in many others you can tell it's different, but doesn't look that bad. I'm assuming that all the videos released lately with the new sprites are from the same code, but there's definitely some slight differences in animation quality at different sources (youtube, gamevideos, gametrailers, etc) that might have to do with converting videos. The gametrailers videos seem really jerky and they skip a lot of frames.

[Vrolokus]

and then watch HD Remix on the same stage, same characters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRVPN70OEGM

It's tough to tell because the speed is way too cracked out, but yeah, something looks weird about the idle animations.

EDIT: Looking at that gif, I almost want to say all the correct frames are there, but they are in a goofy order and timed wrong to boot.

[UC1]

EDIT: Looking at that gif, I almost want to say all the correct frames are there, but they are in a goofy order and timed wrong to boot.

That's what I was thinking. here's the original video, as I say it doesn't look that bad in other videos and is likely to do with how it was capped or encoded.

[Icy]

Another new background pic I came across that I didn't see posted here

[Mejilan]

While it doesn't affect gameplay, the standing animation is nothing like the original

Blargh! The new idle animation looks so fucked up! Ryu fucking listening to his ipod while fighting?!

[jett]

While it doesn't affect gameplay, the standing animation is nothing like the original

Yeah that simply looks fucked up...also, why does Ryu have a scar on his face?

[UC1]

BTW all the original frames are there, and if it's synched up properly it looks like this:



http://www.gametrailers.com/player/31829.html
^This video skips frames really badly, and it's what I used to make that original gif.

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/17974
^This one doesn't seem to have any frame skipping at all.

I reckon it'll look fine when we get it, but for whatever reason some of the videos from Capcom Digital day have wonky animation.

[bigben85]

BTW all the original frames are there, and if it's synched up properly it looks like this: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/31829.html ^This video skips frames really badly, and it's what I used to make that original gif. http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/17974 ^This one doesn't seem to have any frame skipping at all. I reckon it'll look fine when we get it, but for whatever reason some of the videos from Capcom Digital day have wonky animation.

Original has much better animation despite the low res art

[SiegfriedFM]

To be fair, the original also has its share of animation mistakes just in that pose. A pixel above his ear flickers, the gi jumps back and forth around his neck and his left foot is moving strangely. But yeah, you can tell Udon aren't animators. There is just too many small details that all must animate smoothly in such a high-res sprite.

[EdgeTurn]

I think a big part of it is that his right arm seems to dip down way too low and suddenly around the elbow, which is distracting. And his right leg seems to bend too much and too quickly - it looks out of sync with the rest of the movement, as though he were twisting his right leg back instead of just using it to support his weight. I was listening to (I think) the last EGM Live podcast and they specifically mentioned how janky the idle animations were in a hands-on preview; they said that the Capcom rep they spoke to assured them that all animations would be fixed eventually as well. Here's hoping.

[Prime crotch]

Probably wrong but, isn't the reason behind HD's wonky animation the fact that it's on 5 star speed? Or was it CE that had the speed option?

[GrayFoxPL]

If you really want to know how much of a non-animators Udon are, just read this post of nobinobita from mmcafe board.

Find the thread manualy as there's no direct link.

What I meant was that they weren't hired to do totally original animation, they are redoing existing animation, which is much easier. But they still have to create animation, which means they should know how to animate, which is unfortunately not the case. There are lots of problems with SFHD, so many that I need visual aids to describe them: http://www.geocities.com/nobinobita2095/Ken_HD_errors_01.swf http://www.geocities.com/nobinobita2..._errors_02.swf You can't blame those problems on the resolution increase or a lack of frames or the source material. Those problems exist because the artists didn't know enough about animation to avoid them. It's not an issue of resolution, otherwise Blue Ray Disks would look choppier than standard DVDs. You can't blame the source material, since it also has the same number of frames, yet it looks smoother. The problem is that the new frames have basic drawing errors that make them choppier. Udon was supposed to just res-up the sprites. Sounds easy enough, but it still requires animation experience to make sure everything lines up correctly. But they didn't really follow the original sprites, they kept the basic motions, but they totally redrew the characters. Such a drastic change requires even more animation knowledge, which the artists were lacking. It looks like they treated each frame as a single illustration, without checking whether it really fit in with all the other frames. It also looks like multiple artists worked on the Ken Sprite, and each one drew Ken in their own style, rather than following a model sheet. These problems are common errors, especially in the work of beginning animators, but they should never make it into a finished professional product. At first I was impressed that Capcom USA decided to redo their own work for SFHD. The newest screens looked much better, with the less random coloring and better drawing. But seeing it in motion was a big letdown, because all the same animation errors persist in the revised work.

You just don't hire comicbook guys to do this kind of stuff. It all looked great until they showed the videos.

People wanted SF3 HD by udon, lol.

[bad-joey]

Yeah the speed is much higher but it really looks really weird. Ryu moves like he has something in his ass, the old animation was much much better.

[webrunner]

Original has much better animation despite the low res art

Although it does look like there are errors in the animation (Which as been said is due to it being drawn by those familiar with Comic book art in which exact consistency frame-frame actually looks boring) a lot of it is this: A higher frame resolution without upping the frame RATE makes animation look worse. When an arm moves one pixel it looks smooth, but if that's now 10 pixels for the same amount of movement, you start to notice it being jerky.

[Perdew]

You just don't hire comicbook guys to do this kind of stuff. It all looked great until they showed the videos. People wanted SF3 HD by udon, lol.

I'll love the SF3 comic but if they taint that game I'll want to kill myself.

I don't even think this is bad, bad I'm pretty sure I'd only be comfortable with them outsourcing to say... Disney at that level of animation.

[GrayFoxPL]

Although it does look like there are errors in the animation (Which as been said is due to it being drawn by those familiar with Comic book art in which exact consistency frame-frame actually looks boring) a lot of it is this: A higher frame resolution without upping the frame RATE makes animation look worse. When an arm moves one pixel it looks smooth, but if that's now 10 pixels for the same amount of movement, you start to notice it being jerky.

The problem is that it's not the same animation. While I agree that it may look more jerky while the picture is in hi res and outlines are much much thinner, but the animation itself is changed for the worse.

Example, look how far Ryu's elbow travels in old and new gifs. Also notice that his arm is bent almost 90 degrees in letter "L" fasion while in new one it's not that close and more wonky.