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Segata Sanshiro
(07-28-2007, 04:52 PM)
For a 2nd place portable, it's doing quite well, but it's not doing any where near as well as I'd have expected it to do prior to DS and it launching.

Great games, though.
Pureauthor
(07-28-2007, 04:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Segata Sanshiro

Great games, though.

You heard the man.

BUY CRUSH
USD
Member
(07-28-2007, 04:57 PM)
USD's Avatar
I remember when there was crazy talk of the PSP having $20 games. Now that would have been something to see.
PhoenixDark
Banned
(07-28-2007, 05:10 PM)
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I don't think you can consider a handheld gaming device's performance as "really good" if it's not selling any games. And as others have said, the vast majority of this board as well as Sony expected the PSP to preform much better

The hardware is selling well in the US, poorly in Japan, and I don't know about it sales in Europe. It's still alive and somewhat relevant, although as I said the software just not there, and I don't see much hype.
tanasten
glad to heard people isn't stupid anymore
(07-28-2007, 05:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by shuri

Piracy is a problem on the psp, people who say otherwises are out of touch with how things are going in the real world.

/thread
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
(07-28-2007, 05:31 PM)

Originally Posted by tanasten

/thread

What would be interesting is to really get a grip about the core (largest) portion of PSP users and try to understand how much percentage of that age group owns a DS so to be able to say that X age group = Y% of PSP systems while X age group = Z% of DS systems and compare software sales on both.

Piracy of GBA and DS games is trivial too and Nintendo does not fight it with Firmware updates so DS pirates have an easier time.
ShockingAlberto
Member
(07-28-2007, 05:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by USD

I remember when there was crazy talk of the PSP having $20 games. Now that would have been something to see.

Game prices really were the PSP's biggest hurdle. Sony basically positioned it as "You want console experiences? Well, pay console prices!" and some people were happy to do so, but most others were not.

I know personally my PSP collection would be a lot bigger if the prices were chopped in half. Luckily, retailers do that for me.
Agent X
Member
(07-28-2007, 05:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by USD

I remember when there was crazy talk of the PSP having $20 games. Now that would have been something to see.

There's a good number of games for PSP that sell for less than $20...not just Greatest Hits, but even some other games that are released under $20.
ascii42
Member
(07-28-2007, 05:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Agent X

There's a good number of games for PSP that sell for less than $20...not just Greatest Hits, but even some other games that are released under $20.

Yeah, but the overwhelming majority start at $40, with some at $30.
Fortunately, most publishers have realized that $50 just isn't going to happen.
camineet
Banned
(07-28-2007, 05:52 PM)
R-Type Tactics will change everything (for me) as far as PSP not having enough worthwhile games.


PSP is not doing as well as expected. but it's not a flop either. nobody has ever challenged Nintendo in the handheld arena. Sega had a few years of success with the GameGear where they managed to get into double digits of marketshare, but that didn't last, and then 7-8 years into Gameboy's life Pokemon hit and re-established Nintendo's absolute dominance. the GBA continued Nintendo's success. when PSP and DS came out, everyone expected PSP to wipe the floor with DS but that didn't happen. yet, Sony PSP is the only handheld to have any lasting significant marketshare in the handheld arena, even though they're #2 to Nintendo. it's like the Xbox1, establishing a beachhead on handheld island. but PSP is doing much better than Xbox1. granted, PSP will never catch up to DS but it doesn't have to, it's the highend portable that plays games of roughly PS2 calibur. the redesigned PSP should sell well enough in the 2nd half of PSP's lifecycle as Sony preps next-gen PSP2 with most likely a mini-CELL processor and Nvidia graphics which should give PSP2 more power than Xbox1 and Wii. everything hardware-wise is there now with PSP and upcoming PSP lite, and will be there with PSP2. what counts are games. I don't think 3rd parties want the DS to be holding 90 to 99 percent of the market (even though sales indicate it's well on its way to doing just that). PSP games take longer to develop, i think we'll see some fantastic games on PSP in the coming years. R-Type Tactics being one of them, something we won't be able to play on DS. the only game in town for portable racers is PSP, the DS just doesn't cut it other than Mario Kart. the DS is the PERFECT machine for inovative games that use the combined features of dual-screens, touch screen, voice, wireless and WiFi. the PSP is the perfect multi-media machine with traditional last-gen like console games in portable form. both handhelds have their place. this is the first generation where two handheld game systems can be successful. PSP being #2 does not mean failure. I myself was surprised by the success of DS, I thought it would be a shakey third pillar with GameBoy 3 being the real bread winner for Nintendo but it turned out that DS is the successor to the GameBoy brand. PSP is not doing as well. sometimes i think, PSP should be doing much better. other times i'm surprised PSP wasn't wiped off the face of the earth like every other challenger to Nintendo's dominance.

If I got some things wrong, if this post sounds idiotic, well forgive me, i just had 2 Vicodin ES painkillers for my arm and I feel a bit out of it. just wanted to give my take.

both DS and PSP have a place in my gaming life. I look forward to games on both platforms that spark my interest, and I look forward to their successors in 2-4 years.
Last edited by camineet; 07-28-2007 at 06:12 PM.
IcebergSlim3000
Member
(07-28-2007, 05:52 PM)
Not suprised at all.
Agent X
Member
(07-28-2007, 06:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by ascii42

Yeah, but the overwhelming majority start at $40, with some at $30.

That's true, but those are usually the top-tier releases. I don't mind paying $40 for a really high-quality game.

My point is there there is a sizeable market of sub-$20 games on PSP, with a mix of Greatest Hits, other older games, niche titles, and budgetware. Many of these are legitimately great games, too. Contrast this with the GBA market where (during its prime) cartridges rarely sold below $20, and the ones that did were almost always bottom-tier games made on a shoestring budget.
ascii42
Member
(07-28-2007, 06:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Agent X

Contrast this with the GBA market where (during its prime) cartridges rarely sold below $20, and the ones that did were almost always bottom-tier games made on a shoestring budget.

Yeah, I hated that. My PSP collection is more than double the size of my GBA collection partially as a result of that. Anything first-party never went under $20.
Davidion
Rambunctious Rogue
yet
Regrets his Tag
(07-28-2007, 06:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by camineet

R-Type Tactics will change everything (for me) as far as PSP not having enough worthwhile games.


PSP is not doing as well as expected. but it's not a flop either. nobody has ever challenged Nintendo in the handheld arena. Sega had a few years of success with the GameGear where they managed to get into double digits of marketshare, but that didn't last, and then 7-8 years into Gameboy's life Pokemon hit and re-established Nintendo's absolute dominance. the GBA continued Nintendo's success. when PSP and DS came out, everyone expected PSP to wipe the floor with DS but that didn't happen. yet, Sony PSP is the only handheld to have any lasting significant marketshare in the handheld arena, even though they're #2 to Nintendo. it's like the Xbox1, establishing a beachhead on handheld island. but PSP is doing much better than Xbox1. granted, PSP will never catch up to DS but it doesn't have to, it's the highend portable that plays games of roughly PS2 calibur. the redesigned PSP should sell well enough in the 2nd half of PSP's lifecycle as Sony preps next-gen PSP2 with most likely a mini-CELL processor and Nvidia graphics which should give PSP2 more power than Xbox1 and Wii. everything hardware-wise is there now with PSP and upcoming PSP lite, and will be there with PSP2. what counts are games. I don't think 3rd parties want the DS to be holding 90 to 99 percent of the market (even though sales indicate it's well on its way to doing just that). PSP games take longer to develop, i think we'll see some fantastic games on PSP in the coming years. R-Type Tactics being one of them, something we won't be able to play on DS. the only game in town for portable racers is PSP, the DS just doesn't cut it other than Mario Kart. the DS is the PERFECT machine for inovative games that use the combined features of dual-screens, touch screen, voice, wireless and WiFi. the PSP is the perfect multi-media machine with traditional last-gen like console games in portable form. both handhelds have their place. this is the first generation where two handheld game systems can be successful. PSP being #2 does not mean failure. I myself was surprised by the success of DS, I thought it would be a shakey third pillar with GameBoy 3 being the real bread winner for Nintendo but it turned out that DS is the successor to the GameBoy brand. PSP is not doing as well. sometimes i think, PSP should be doing much better. other times i'm surprised PSP wasn't wiped off the face of the earth like every other challenger to Nintendo's dominance.

If I got some things wrong, if this post sounds idiotic, well forgive me, i just had 2 Vicodin ES painkillers for my arm and I feel a bit out of it. just wanted to give my take.

both DS and PSP have a place in my gaming life. I look forward to games on both platforms that spark my interest, and I look forward to their successors in 2-4 years.

As much as I'd like to buy you a non-sticking enter key, you make good points.
kammy
Banned
(07-28-2007, 06:54 PM)
I remember all those years ago, Nintendo looked doomed. The PSP looked like some kind of impossible demon with a god mode cheat turned on and unlimited ammo. The DS looked like that dude out of SOTC.

Its selling fine compared to last year. At least Sony can say that they have got the closest out of any of the GB competition and its not going anywhere fast.

The DS on the otherhand...it deserved to fail, so cynical in its inception.
Segata Sanshiro
(07-28-2007, 07:05 PM)

Originally Posted by kammy

I remember all those years ago, Nintendo looked doomed. The PSP looked like some kind of impossible demon with a god mode cheat turned on and unlimited ammo. The DS looked like that dude out of SOTC.

Its selling fine compared to last year. At least Sony can say that they have got the closest out of any of the GB competition and its not going anywhere fast.

The DS on the otherhand...it deserved to fail, so cynical in its inception.

You say some of the craziest shit, m'good man.
TTP
Have a fun! Enjoy!
(07-28-2007, 07:10 PM)
TTP's Avatar
Recently I'm playing Castlevania SOTN on the PSP and PS3 simultaneously and I love it. Sony should pimp this feature strongly (maybe even spinning it a bit by saying something like "you basically get two games for the price of one") alongisde the ability to play games on the go and on the TV with the new model. It's weird, but people see those PS2-like games on the system and the first question that comes to their mind is "can I play them on the TV?". Same goes for the vids. Besides, reducing the price of the software is a must IMO. Make them available for download. Introduce a PSP Store. Something like that would do I think. Also, I like how the new model is lighter than the DS Lite. Should help the portability. Not sure I've touched the points relevant to this discussion here, but who cares. :P
Parch
Member
(07-28-2007, 07:11 PM)
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There is some pretty selective memory when it comes to what "everybody said".

Anybody who said the PSP was going to crush the DS was a fool. And it certainly wasn't everybody.
Other end of the spectrum, anybody who said the PSP was dead was a fool.
Reasonable expectations put it somewhere in the middle, and that's what's it done.

My first expectations was that the PSP was going to attract a lot of customers looking for a high end handheld, but the price guaranteed that Sony was never going to "win" the handheld battle. I expected them to take a big chunk out handheld market, and they've done that. Just how much of that chunk was needed to be considered a success is dependent on your expectations.

It's a product that was needed. Nintendo had stagnated the handheld industry for decades so the PSP was a welcome addition. Given reasonable expectations, I'm not at all surprised at how well the PSP is doing.
Android18a
Member
(07-28-2007, 07:12 PM)
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The PSP deserves every success. Its got some amazing titles out and dispite the negative press it's a hot machine and always impresses me with its gorgeous screen.

Plus it's got Twinbee Portable, which is the best thing ever.
Ash Sparrow
Member
(07-28-2007, 07:29 PM)
Go PSP, another price drop would be nice
Jokeropia
Member
(07-28-2007, 07:40 PM)

Originally Posted by Parch

Anybody who said the PSP was going to crush the DS was a fool. And it certainly wasn't everybody.

Every analyst, gaming publication, message board (and more notably, publishers and retailers) etc. GAF was particularly notorious, just look at some old threads from back then.

Originally Posted by Parch

Reasonable expectations put it somewhere in the middle, and that's what's it done.

The middle between crushing the DS and being dead would be selling on par with DS, and it's nowhere near that.
Last edited by Jokeropia; 07-28-2007 at 07:59 PM.
Beer Monkey
Member
(07-28-2007, 07:44 PM)
PSP is doing fine as a gadget.

PSP is not doing fine as a gaming platform.

The latter is measured wholly in software sales.

So to answer the OP, I'm actually surprised that the PSP is doing this poorly. I bought one at launch and actually thought they might grab half or more of Nintendo's domination of the handheld gaming platform business. Yes, I was one of those people.

I like my system and have no plans of ever ditching it, though.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
(07-28-2007, 07:50 PM)
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actually the attach rate for the PSP isn't that bad. i calculated it in another thread.

the attach ratio is around 3 for the PSP, and in the past 15 months its been going up.
Kafel
Banned
(07-28-2007, 07:54 PM)
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How many gaffers only use the official firmwares ?
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
(07-28-2007, 07:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kafel

How many gaffers only use the official firmwares ?

me.
ascii42
Member
(07-28-2007, 07:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kafel

How many gaffers only use the official firmwares ?

I do.
Mejilan
Running off of Custom Firmware
(07-28-2007, 07:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kafel

How many gaffers only use the official firmwares ?

H-h-h-hell no! But if you're implying that I don't buy games, I probably buy more PSP games than most GAFfers. I think my count is up to the mid-30s or so, and I plan on buying 4 more this Wednesday! :D
Zer0
Banned
(07-28-2007, 08:11 PM)
for my psp is the xbox of the portable market,and for me its the best portable system i have played on my entire life,nice games,emulators,video,etc etc
Forgotten Ancient
Banned
(07-28-2007, 08:13 PM)
Castlevania + Redesign + holiday sales = Me having a PSP sometime in November...unless I opt for a PS3 or new HDTV instead.

Why can't stuff be free? :(

I'm glad the system is sticking around, but it really sucks that the best selling game is Monster Hunter while the real gems kinda get lost in the mix.
Setanta
Member
(07-28-2007, 08:15 PM)
To be fair it has some great games, MGS for one (i know its not to everyones taste) but it still isnt in league with the DS and more than likely never will. In fact 'Never'. But it can hold its ground ala N64.
HAL_Laboratory
(07-28-2007, 08:32 PM)
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The real question I would be concerned with is whether PSP would have survived at all had it not been so prone to hacks.
kammy
Banned
(07-28-2007, 08:36 PM)
The real question is, would the DS have been a hit if it wasnt prone to brain training and non games?
MickeyKnox
Member
(07-28-2007, 09:00 PM)
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The PSP's biggest problem was/is price. Not simply hardware, the ****ing thing was $250 for ****ing EVER, but especially software prices.

Charging 40-50 for handheld software is stupid for 2 reasons, not only does it mean the people who own one will be buying less new/more used software but it also prevents a ton of people from taking the plunge since the software is overpriced.

The PSP has it's share of real problems (battery life, loading times) and imaginary ones (LOLno gamesLOL) which people can pretend are the reasons it's trucking along at a pretty good but comparitavly shit pace compared to the DS but it's really price. The PSP was the right product, at the right time for the industry but at the wrong time in Sony's world, the tons and tons of money being funneled into r&d for the PS3 made taking an aggressive pricing strategy with the PSP to "combat" the DS impossible. A $200 value pack with a $175 core that dropped to $150 after one year on the market and SOFTWARE priced with a ceiling of $35 and an average cost of $20-$25 would have meant a PSP controlled NA market.
Mejilan
Running off of Custom Firmware
(07-28-2007, 09:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by kammy

The real question is, would the DS have been a hit if it wasnt prone to brain training and non games?

It would have become the successor to the Gameboy regardless, of that I'm fairly confident.
Mario
Sidhe / PikPok
(07-28-2007, 09:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by davepoobond

the attach ratio is around 3 for the PSP, and in the past 15 months its been going up.

The attach ratio is actually a lot closer to 4 (from an NPD perspective at least).


Originally Posted by HAL_Laboratory

The real question I would be concerned with is whether PSP would have survived at all had it not been so prone to hacks.

My own expectation is that the benefit provided by people attracted to the platform for emulation and home brew is outweighed significantly by the impact of piracy that hacks allow. So I expect the PSP would not only have survived without hacks, but actually would have performed a lot better software sales wise.

Of course, we'll never know one way or the other.
HyperionX
Member
(07-28-2007, 09:08 PM)
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The PSP has done a lot better than I thought actually, so in that respect there is no disappointment unlike some here.
Mustaphadamus
Member
(07-28-2007, 09:18 PM)

Originally Posted by Kafel

How many gaffers only use the official firmwares ?

me
Forgotten Ancient
Banned
(07-28-2007, 09:41 PM)

Originally Posted by kammy

The real question is, would the DS have been a hit if it wasnt prone to brain training and non games?

Why is that the real question when we're talking about the PSP?
Stealth Editor
Member
(07-28-2007, 10:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by HAL_Laboratory

The real question I would be concerned with is whether PSP would have survived at all had it not been so prone to hacks.

My guess is that the hardware would be way down while the software would be slightly up
Frillen
Member
(07-28-2007, 10:24 PM)
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PSP is doing fine, Hardware wise. But Software wise? Not so much.

Zero games in the top 20 NPD of June.
Zero games in the top 50 last week in Japan.
Zero exclusives in the top 40 UK Chart last week.
HAL_Laboratory
(07-28-2007, 10:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stealth Editor

My guess is that the hardware would be way down while the software would be slightly up

My thought exactly. I wonder if Sony will take this into consideration with PSP 2 (assuming they make another portable).
FortunateSon
Banned
(07-28-2007, 10:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Parch

There is some pretty selective memory when it comes to what "everybody said".

Anybody who said the PSP was going to crush the DS was a fool. And it certainly wasn't everybody.
Other end of the spectrum, anybody who said the PSP was dead was a fool.
Reasonable expectations put it somewhere in the middle, and that's what's it done.

My first expectations was that the PSP was going to attract a lot of customers looking for a high end handheld, but the price guaranteed that Sony was never going to "win" the handheld battle. I expected them to take a big chunk out handheld market, and they've done that. Just how much of that chunk was needed to be considered a success is dependent on your expectations.

It's a product that was needed. Nintendo had stagnated the handheld industry for decades so the PSP was a welcome addition. Given reasonable expectations, I'm not at all surprised at how well the PSP is doing.

I think this is a pretty accurate post. Well done sir.
HAL_Laboratory
(07-28-2007, 10:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Parch

Reasonable expectations put it somewhere in the middle, and that's what's it done.

Is there any other option? I mean there's only 2 portables in the market, so what are you left with if you don't want a DS? This is where I think the PSP has lucked out -- if MS had decided to launch a portable (and managed to do so successfully), Sony would be pretty screwed right now, IMO.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
(07-28-2007, 10:37 PM)

Originally Posted by davepoobond

actually the attach rate for the PSP isn't that bad. i calculated it in another thread.

the attach ratio is around 3 for the PSP, and in the past 15 months its been going up.

You know, how is that possible ? I believe you of course, but I'm curious. The PSP has seen some nice sales of software in Japan, thanks to Montser Hunter 2. But outside that where was the last time we have seen a PSP game in the top 20 of USA ? And even in Japan, outside MHP2, there were some games here and there, but I've not seen other smashing success. At least not enough to compense the good hardware' sales, that, I've the impression, are increasing much more then software (in other words the attach rate should have gone down...).

So, I don't understand how it is possible that the attach rate has gone up. Can you explain me please ?

Originally Posted by Frillen

PSP is doing fine, Hardware wise. But Software wise? Not so much.

Zero games in the top 20 NPD of June.
Zero games in the top 50 last week in Japan.
Zero exclusives in the top 40 UK Chart last week.

That's a little bit what I meant.
cheekymunky
Banned
(07-28-2007, 10:38 PM)
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250 console price, retarded design, expensive games and so many assholes not paying for their games and downloading them is what IS and WILL continue to plague Sony and the PSP.


I still love my PSP and will definitely buy a PSP-Pee but the thing is of shoddy design and too expensive for a handheld.
Slavik81
Member
(07-28-2007, 10:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tobor

Something in that statement is pathetic, but it's not your brother's purchase. ;)

-_-;

Hyperbole.
Koren
Member
(07-28-2007, 10:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mithos Yggdrasill

So, I don't understand how it is possible that the attach rate has gone up. Can you explain me please ?

That could be explained by people buying older, discounted games (not sure that those discounted games is really profitable for developpers, though, but I guess that one game sold cheap is better than no game sold)
PistolGrip
sex vacation in Guam
(07-28-2007, 10:44 PM)
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Not surprised at all. To be honest I wouldnt be surprise if it hits 100Million shipped mark when it's all said and done. 2010
NinSoX
Banned
(07-28-2007, 10:47 PM)
I also expected the PSP to absolutely destroy the DS when it was first announced. Anyway it is still selling at a consistent pace and I'm confident it'll sell 50 million+. I don't know if Sony is willing to continue with the dismal software sales though.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
(07-28-2007, 10:51 PM)

Originally Posted by Koren

That could be explained by people buying older, discounted games (not sure that those discounted games is really profitable for developpers, though, but I guess that one game sold cheap is better than no game sold)

This could be an explaination. Maybe the PSP has far more games in the lowest part of the charts, that summed make at least decent sales. Well, this is not true for Japan, because PSP has usually only 2-3 games in the top 50..... (always if you keep outside Monster Hunter).

Originally Posted by NinSoX

I also expected the PSP to absolutely destroy the DS when it was first announced. Anyway it is still selling at a consistent pace and I'm confident it'll sell 50 million+. I don't know if Sony is willing to continue with the dismal software sales though.

They are to blame, because they're not supporting enough the console. Instead, they're putting too much resources on PS3.

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